Why Nullifiers?

[Manyc]

Just now, NightElve said:

Ahem.... i think nullifiers require urgent attention, xD... i actually resisted putting it on Megathread, which i may re-consider since it's game breaking for me, my friends and other players 

Instead I think you should try to create a feedback thread stating what is wrong and a possible solution, work it out with fellow players and try to develop a serious solution.

Personally I have the opposite opinion although I won't fight you on that. If you make a valid idea to trade nullifiers for, I'd support you.

[sunnis]

why not fix mag frame to be that frame that can remove the nullifiers bubbles it was meant to kill corpus but instead DE killed mag frame for corpus.....

[Sixty5]

I like nullifiers, they require you to make choices and mix up gameplay.

They almost single-handedly keep powerspam in check, and without them, a lot of stuff would need nerfs

 

 

[Dreddeth]

Curiously, a Glaive weapon built for Power Throw and Quick Return will pass through the bubble, detonate upon impact with the ground or a wall or whatever, and (if you're stealthed) usually kill everything in the bubble up to a point.

That being said, Combi/Scrambus are better at their job than Nullifiers, and better balanced as well. Replace the stone-wall bastards with the skater boys and I'd be happy.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Dreddeth
clarification

[(XBOX)SlohLane]

1 hour ago, Ciaus said:

Why should I feel like trying to use my dread or sniper in a corpus mission is a waste of time? Because of 1 enemy type? Pls. 

Not all weapons or all damages types are made too be affective against all enemies!

It has been this way since the beginning!

so yea if your being dull enough to use a puncture weapon on an enemy that's immune too puncture and needs impact too be killed effectively then your playing the game wrong not DE has it wrong.

if you can't sacrifice one weapon in your load out too deal with a special enemy type in a said mission then your short handing yourself, DE is not short handing you!

People who use the argument I shouldn't have too bring a certain weapon into a level cause it decreases my fun.. Shouldn't have a voice on how the game is in need of change period!

learn how damage types work or go back too COD please.

Edited June 28, 2016 by (XB1)Listed mia 510
English much

[Syntax3Error]

They are really buggy with multi-shot mods, you can empty an entire mag and they bubble will pop after 2-3 seconds.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Oh men, DE love when we make a Nullifier post, still they dont listen (or read) feedbacks about Nullifiers.

I hate Nullifiers, everyone knows that i hate Nullifiers.

I hate Nullifiers because i just dont use Boltor Prime or others automatic weapons. I use Snipers, Shotguns, and bows.

Nullifers makes you have fun only when you use automatic weapons in Void Missions.

_{I said i hate Nullifiers?}

[(PSN)poloslash18]

Not only that. After certain time on an endless mission they spawn like crazy.

[VoidNomade]

5 hours ago, Sixty5 said:

I like nullifiers, they require you to make choices and mix up gameplay.

In other words, they are limiting the choices to a very certain weapon set.

So what you like is a dumped down weapon experience you need to play over and over and over.

 

I had a great example yesterday. I was playing around with my volt build and wanted to make a high str high duration build and thought; wow cool let´s take the Toxycyst into the Battle, my reload is higher and my shield will grant me safety joy. Pity me i forget what i will encounter. Now GUESS what happened after seeing the first golden bubble in t4 surv and me wanting to headshot the guy in the bubble..

Nullifier needs to go they are limiting the weapon choices on mission too much. Simple as that.

5 hours ago, Sixty5 said:

They almost single-handedly keep powerspam in check, and without them, a lot of stuff would need nerfs

Yes, they need to use a very dump concept to keep their mess of a resource system in check you´re right.

Maybe they should introduce a proper mechanic instead.

[Kronxito]

8 hours ago, NightElve said:

Having recently levelled most of the items in the game and maxed all/most mods, but left Archwing grind and RNG galore, so i'm not planning to waste my time there.... i've been playing with the other frames that are normally trash to use in endgame without group synergies and the real annoyance i face is nullifiers.... they render most frames useless and they don't pose any difficulty at all! Rather they are very annoying, it's like the small kid bullying the tall tough kid, can't throw a punch but will keep provoking, i rather bursas, Bombards, Stalker be  replaced double the numbers than having those annoying beings, or are they there to push you out of the mission??

Nullies remind me of hours i wasted Fighting Vergil, having forgotten to use devil trigger to do the final blow (Devil May Cry), you have it under control but you don't.

Nullifiers are needed.  They do the game more funny giving some complicated situations to manage.

[Wolfwaffe]

Why bombards and napalms and scorches and crazy cat ladies oh Lotus WHY THE CAT LADIES NONONONOOOO.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

I like nullifiers, because they can be handled. I rarely end up in s bubble unless I choose to. The only time nullifiers are a major problem is when I use Limbo, which will hopefully be changed with his rework. Combas and scrambus really annoy me though. My powers get deactivated before I have any chance to deal with them.

[Tomppak]

I don't get the problem with nullifiers. They mainly hinder certain frames from cheesing it all with spammable powers.

Instead, they force you to actually think a bit. You can either take a rapid-fire primary to take care of them, or a rapid fire secondary to take care of them, or you can forget about them both and take neither - in which case you'll have to either spend more time shooting them, or get close and finish them off with melee (or shooting them while inside the bubble).

They are a gear check just as much as those heavy gunners and their huge armour and healthpool are - If you aren't equipped with a diversity of weapons to take care of variety of situations, then your task is that much harder and/or you need to improvise. They are only annoying if you are unwilling to change neither your loadout nor your playstyle in order to counter the opposition.

 

As a sidenote, I usually use my Furis to take care of them, rapid fire and relatively accurate, eats through the bubble even from a distance, and the single clip is enough to finish off the nullifier as well - And with Winds of Purity, it also acts as a back-up medpack.

[Sixty5]

6 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

In other words, they are limiting the choices to a very certain weapon set.

So what you like is a dumped down weapon experience you need to play over and over and over.

I had a great example yesterday. I was playing around with my volt build and wanted to make a high str high duration build and thought; wow cool let´s take the Toxycyst into the Battle, my reload is higher and my shield will grant me safety joy. Pity me i forget what i will encounter. Now GUESS what happened after seeing the first golden bubble in t4 surv and me wanting to headshot the guy in the bubble..

Nullifier needs to go they are limiting the weapon choices on mission too much. Simple as that.

Yes, they need to use a very dump concept to keep their mess of a resource system in check you´re right.

Maybe they should introduce a proper mechanic instead.

Firstly, if you are getting beaten by nullifiers as Volt, you are doing it wrong, he is a massive counter to them.

You will always know if you are going to be facing Nullifiers before the mission, so I don't see an issue with having to think about your loadout beforehand. If I am going skiing I don't complain that I don't get to wear shorts and t-shirt. Nullifiers are a fact of life, you just need to deal with them.

[ragingdeamon]

people do know you can go *inside* the bubble and kill the nullifier, right? as a great bow fan it's what I do when I have one equipped. it's not really a huge deal, especially since we can go in and out so fast the enemies inside have barely any time to shoot me before I am killing them from a distance once again. 

I don't find nullifiers particularly pace breaking. it's almost like 90% of the enemies are not nullifiers. the purpouse of nullifiers to me is to keep you on the move, since you have to dodge the fire that comes inside the bubble while you destroy it or you have to go inside the bubble yourself. do people just come into warframe for the shooting part and don't use parkour at all? 

[Shiverick]

Thats why I always keep high fire rate secondary with viral/status as utility Nullifiers wrecker. Hikou/Stilleto and bubble is gone in 1,5 second, opening way for abilities or Ragdoll Hek. Give it a try or just jump in with meele slam.

[VoidNomade]

1 minute ago, Sixty5 said:

Firstly, if you are getting beaten by nullifiers as Volt, you are doing it wrong, he is a massive counter to them.

You will always know if you are going to be facing Nullifiers before the mission, so I don't see an issue with having to think about your loadout beforehand. If I am going skiing I don't complain that I don't get to wear shorts and t-shirt. Nullifiers are a fact of life, you just need to deal with them.

 

Firstly, I never said my Volt got beaten, may get yourself a coffee and read properly jesus.

Secondly, I used a example to show case that they create restrictions on our weapon loadout which is true.

You seem to be fine that, using the same weapons or weapon type's over and over and over again because of a dumb design decisions. Fine.

I'm not. I'm not happy with this design thus I'm voicing my concerns so I don't need to live with it anymore.

Maybe this is a new concept for you.

[VoidNomade]

The other problem are people glorifying the design or simply missunderstanding what people find negative about them

- they are not hard

- they can be handled 

- and that's not their issue

It's the meta they create that is the problem.

 

[Sixty5]

24 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

 

Firstly, I never said my Volt got beaten, may get yourself a coffee and read properly jesus.

Secondly, I used a example to show case that they create restrictions on our weapon loadout which is true.

You seem to be fine that, using the same weapons or weapon type's over and over and over again because of a dumb design decisions. Fine.

I'm not. I'm not happy with this design thus I'm voicing my concerns so I don't need to live with it anymore.

Maybe this is a new concept for you.

I dunno, this sounded like your Volt got beaten

I had a great example yesterday. I was playing around with my volt build and wanted to make a high str high duration build and thought; wow cool let´s take the Toxycyst into the Battle, my reload is higher and my shield will grant me safety joy. Pity me i forget what i will encounter. Now GUESS what happened after seeing the first golden bubble in t4 surv and me wanting to headshot the guy in the bubble..

And as far as weapon choice goes, you have three slots, any one can be used as your anti-nullifier weapon, take a melee that can kill them with a fast spin attack, or something like the Glaive that ignores their bubbles, or you can equip a gun with a fast fire rate as a primary or secondary, you still have the freedom to pick the weapons that you want to use, as long as you remember what you will be fighting. You don't take magnetic damage when you fight Infested, so how is remembering to pick one anti-nullifier weapon vs corrupted or corpus any different?

Additionally the alternative to nullifiers is to either give more enemies the ability resist, or ignore our powers, on an individual level, or to substantially nerf almost every power in the game. Neither of those two solutions is really any better than the nullifiers themselves, and the second would cause this place to explode.

You say the meta they create is the problem? If that was the case there would be far more emphasis on the stuff that easily handles them than there currently is. 

[cghawk]

haven't played a Tower 3/4 mission since nullifiers have been added to the void, also never fight against the corpus, only the grineer and infested.

the nullifiers ruin the fun for me, I love slow hard hitting weapons, I used to equip a bow + marelok or vasto or any other revolver type weapon as I like using them but with nullifiers they've all been garbaged, my 5 forma paris prime is just collecting dust now,

 

nullifiers have been implemented because of the hardcore players, time and time again casual players get punished because hardcore players want more of a challenge, so DE implements it, casual players gets screwed over and on the hardcore players go to complain about something else, then DE implements it and the cycle continues

trinity is just the latest example, in my years of playing I have never used the self damaging to get 99% damage reduction, I always used it as a heal in pub games, just running around, using my 4 to heal allies who have run off, but now that's no longer possible because hardcore players complained about the cheese of 99% damage reduction, so forth comes the change that the minority screams for and the majority gets punished, e.g. the casual player.

 

and last of all, with nullifiers what advantage do tenno have over the corpus? survivability? well once you reach a certain point they have way more survivability then you. damage? again, once you reach a certain point they will out damage you with ease.mobility? guess they've got mobility over the corpus but this doesn't do you any good in combat. so what's left? that's right, warframe abilities, massive scale battlefield changing abilities, they are the sole reason the tenno are capable of taking on the grineer, corpus and infested while being severely outnumbered, so what do you think will happen when you take them away? well then all the tenno will be left with as an advantage is mobility, and even that can easily be hindered with arctic eximus and knockdowns.

 

without abilities warframe just turns into another 3rd person shooter, which is exactly why I stopped playing against corpus and above tower 2, warframe attracted me to the game because of the abilities, without them I might as well go play any of the other 1 billion shooters on the market.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

13 hours ago, NightElve said:

Having recently levelled most of the items in the game and maxed all/most mods, but left Archwing grind and RNG galore, so i'm not planning to waste my time there.... i've been playing with the other frames that are normally trash to use in endgame without group synergies and the real annoyance i face is nullifiers.... they render most frames useless and they don't pose any difficulty at all! Rather they are very annoying, it's like the small kid bullying the tall tough kid, can't throw a punch but will keep provoking, i rather bursas, Bombards, Stalker be  replaced double the numbers than having those annoying beings, or are they there to push you out of the mission??

Nullies remind me of hours i wasted Fighting Vergil, having forgotten to use devil trigger to do the final blow (Devil May Cry), you have it under control but you don't.

[DE]Scott put them in the game because he got tired of people saying the game was too easy.

[VoidNomade]

3 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

I dunno, this sounded like your Volt got beaten

And I thought you were looking for an easy defamation.

5 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

And as far as weapon choice goes, you have three slots, any one can be used as your anti-nullifier weapon

You're forced to use at least one high rof weapon and you make it sound like it's a blessing lol

9 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

take a melee that can kill them with a fast spin attack

That works till a certain level. When you can't one hit them anymore due to slow from frost eximi, damage reduction from ancient while you're eating bombards and suffer knockdows from heavies those battle tactic doesn't really work. At least that's the last thing you should do later on.

13 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

 so how is remembering to pick one anti-nullifier weapon vs corrupted or corpus any different

Are there anti grineer infested weapons you NEED when you go against them? News to me.

18 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

Additionally the alternative to nullifiers is to either give more enemies the ability resist, or ignore our powers, on an individual level, or to substantially nerf almost every power in the game. Neither of those two solutions is really any better than the nullifiers themselves, and the second would cause this place to explode

Just because you have limited ideas doesn't mean there are none.

Another option would be enemies that get buffs through certain power over use. There are tons of other suggestions one the appropriated sub forum's.

23 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

If that was the case there would be far more emphasis on the stuff that easily handles them than there currently is. 

You're making the same mistake I said earlier in the post you've mention here. 

Again it's not about how to handle them, everybody gets it how to fight them, it's about that how you NEED to fight them is a problem plus people are generally unhappy with the design.

And this is talked over and over again since they were introduced, this us nothing new and I'm hearing the same things over and over again that have nothing to do with the core problem of their design and the weapon restrictions this unit creates.

 

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

2 minutes ago, cghawk said:

haven't played a Tower 3/4 mission since nullifiers have been added to the void, also never fight against the corpus, only the grineer and infested.

the nullifiers ruin the fun for me, I love slow hard hitting weapons, I used to equip a bow + marelok or vasto or any other revolver type weapon as I like using them but with nullifiers they've all been garbaged, my 5 forma paris prime is just collecting dust now,

 

nullifiers have been implemented because of the hardcore players, time and time again casual players get punished because hardcore players want more of a challenge, so DE implements it, casual players gets screwed over and on the hardcore players go to complain about something else, then DE implements it and the cycle continues

trinity is just the latest example, in my years of playing I have never used the self damaging to get 99% damage reduction, I always used it as a heal in pub games, just running around, using my 4 to heal allies who have run off, but now that's no longer possible because hardcore players complained about the cheese of 99% damage reduction, so forth comes the change that the minority screams for and the majority gets punished, e.g. the casual player.

 

and last of all, with nullifiers what advantage do tenno have over the corpus? survivability? well once you reach a certain point they have way more survivability then you. damage? again, once you reach a certain point they will out damage you with ease.mobility? guess they've got mobility over the corpus but this doesn't do you any good in combat. so what's left? that's right, warframe abilities, massive scale battlefield changing abilities, they are the sole reason the tenno are capable of taking on the grineer, corpus and infested while being severely outnumbered, so what do you think will happen when you take them away? well then all the tenno will be left with as an advantage is mobility, and even that can easily be hindered with arctic eximus and knockdowns.

 

without abilities warframe just turns into another 3rd person shooter, which is exactly why I stopped playing against corpus and above tower 2, warframe attracted me to the game because of the abilities, without them I might as well go play any of the other 1 billion shooters on the market.

Abilities may be my favorite part of Warframe, but it has way more going for it that other games don't.

You're also talking like you can't use abilities in any level nullifiers are in. I can survive multiple rotations of endless missions without entering bubbles, so I can always use my abilities. The only time nullifiers are a problem for me is when I'm using Limbo. What ends up being difficult for you really depends on your play style.

[NightElve]

10 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

Curiously, a Glaive weapon built for Power Throw and Quick Return will pass through the bubble, detonate upon impact with the ground or a wall or whatever, and (if you're stealthed) usually kill everything in the bubble up to a point.

That being said, Combi/Scrambus are better at their job than Nullifiers, and better balanced as well. Replace the stone-wall bastards with the skater boys and I'd be happy.

i'm MR 20, and other players/majority of the community , know very obviously how to deal with this nullifiers, my main issue is they are just annoying, for a game that has that much weapons to stick to 1 weapon is just boring, that's why people will call nerfs to Tonkor, why? enemy types like these and scaling, i want to use Saryn but should i keep dodging nullifiers each time, it's annoying, this nullifiers will end up ruining the game experience, as i said Nullifiers have never been/will never i just go with a good group synergy, and we can do 4 hours plus T4, they are just an annoyance, and they prevent players like me, from using the other junk frames and weapons that community neglects because of the enemy types like nullifiers/scaling, i'm done levelling i want fun but there isn't.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

5 minutes ago, NightElve said:

i'm MR 20, and other players/majority of the community , know very obviously how to deal with this nullifiers, my main issue is they are just annoying, for a game that has that much weapons to stick to 1 weapon is just boring, that's why people will call nerfs to Tonkor, why? enemy types like these and scaling, i want to use Saryn but should i keep dodging nullifiers each time, it's annoying, this nullifiers will end up ruining the game experience, as i said Nullifiers have never been/will never i just go with a good group synergy, and we can do 4 hours plus T4, they are just an annoyance, and they prevent players like me, from using the other junk frames and weapons that community neglects because of the enemy types like nullifiers/scaling, i'm done levelling i want fun but there isn't.

I don't think you realize how many weapons can deal with nullifiers...