Kavats Feedback [Megathread]

[Mover-NeRo]

Have to agree with most of the posts.

About 8 mission done. Each with about 4-6 scans. Not a single DNA sample.

Atm Kavats are just not worth farming. Strong "buy for plat" message here.

[MeriKona]

Just here to chime in with my complaints.

Not happy with DNA sample drop rates. Definitely think they should be either guaranteed or add a new gear item specifically for extracting DNA.

As a side note, would also like to mention that 120,000 alloy plates for crafting the segment is a huge grind wall to anyone who wasn't around when the void dropped alloy plates. It would take days of solid farming to get that amount of plates without boosters. Many might be sitting on millions, but anyone who joined in the last 3 months has likely 50-90k after hundreds of hours of play. 

So far the feature I was most excited for in update 19 has proven to be inaccessible to me, realistically, because of the insane grind wall. I agree with the others here when they say there is a definite 'buy this with plat' vibe. 

[Scutch]

I'm not usually one to write a complaint about this game so this is a first for me.

This really REALLY small chance of getting a Genetic Code is ridiculous. I've spent most of my hours even when I'm not supposed to be playing Warframe trying to scan Kavats in Orokin Derelict missions. I am not one who usually writes in forums about feedback for games because of most times I find it acceptable that some rates are low. But this is now not the case. I've ran around 40 Orokin Derelict Exterminate missions now and my total genetic code scan finds are 16.

This low amount is not acceptable, now I'm not putting the blame on the person who set the rate but you as a company are basically discouraging people and burn those out who really wants to have a Kavat as a pet and some players unfortunately do not have the money to buy it from the market place. You could easily fix this by increasing the genetic code find rate OR increase the amount of Kavats in the Derelict.

This is not acceptable because all it comes down to is frustration and recurrence, people deciding to ignore getting a Kavat completely or succumb to the more simple but faster way to buy it from the Market with the money they actually do not wish to use it on.

[SickSara]

50/60 scans and not a single Genetic Code drop. Got to love that RNG. 100% chance to ruin your day.

[vaur06]

So, I'm at 57 succeded kavat scans, only got 5 kavat genetic codes. With some calculation on the back of a napkin (meaning if I'm not being accurate, you are free to elaborate on the calculs, I'm not mathematitien after all), it means there is a 10% drop chance upon succesfull scan. So if we want 20 genetic code to get one single kavat it means we have to perferm at least 200 scans (based on RNG).

Knowing that there is rougthly 4 kavats in average in a mission, you need to do 50 derelict missions. And that is if the kavat survive long enough for you to come and scan them (which often either dies to gaz or flame thrower).

[polarity]

Given that you can have as few as 2 kavats in an ODE, they can get killed by other enemies before you even get to them, we have to gather the materials and spend time to craft the keys to get into derelict missions, and we need a whole 20 of them, scans need to be changed to 100%, not the sub 10% we're currently seeing.

Even before the buff to drop chance on kubrow eggs, you could do less than 5 runs of Pacific and have a very good chance of getting one egg, because there were plenty of nests in those missions, and none of the other enemies in them would be trying to destroy them.

As it stands the number of missions you need to do to get the DNA scans for just one kavat+incubator looks to be roughly 50.  That's 10 times more than the 5 it used to take to get a kubrow, and since egg drops were buffed to be almost guaranteed for at least one pair of nest in a mission, that's become more like 50.

(and don't forget 250 nav coordinates, 12,500 nano spores, 3750 salvage, and 400 circuits to build the keys, and 50 minutes just crafting)

Edited July 10, 2016 by polarity

[WMan22]

Because of how expensive Kavats are I've just been trying to get 10 imprints just to build the freaking segment and then worry about plat for my actual kitty breeding after that's done. However, I have run like 25 Orokin Derelict capture missions for the kavat scans and I only have 1 genetic code template to show for it. And apparently that's LUCKY, as I'm hearing reports of people doing 150 runs and only getting one scan.

That made me just not wanna even bother with cats. Why even bother when we don't even know if they'll get nerfed or something? I mean, in their current balance I would spend plat on breeding kitties, but I have a feeling that having red crit kitties is way too fun to be true, and I'm not going to deal with the frustration of hundreds of scans just to have it get screwed over by kneejerk balance decisions to cats because they're deemed too fun to have by certain people.

Edit: After making this post I grinded for 7 hours straight (I timed it), using 50-60 or so Orokin Derelict Capture keys, and I only have 10 imprints to show for it. The only reason it even was that """"short"""" of a grind is that Kavat spawn rates seem to increase with a group of players.

Great, I have a Kavat Incubator now, but I doubt it will get used as I'm not going through that hell again. You have to literally find a kavat in a mosh pit of like 20 infested sometimes. Seriously, Imagine this

Spoiler

But with literally 18-24 more infested surrounding them and trying to wrangle 4 specific targets out of the group before the rest of the enemies kill them. Just nothing but green covering your screen and you're supposed to find the shape of a kavat tail and skinnier body when the common infested upper spines look almost like kavat tails.

and even if you do manage to wrangle a kavat after a full minute of trying to pick it out from the infested clusterf*ck, you still have a 6.5% chance of even getting anything from your scan. It doesn't help that bringing an extinguished key (Because why not, you're in the derelict), severely lengthens your scan times. I'm not sure if it's a bug or an intended "feature", but either way it contributes to making this grind the polar opposite of fun.

I really don't mean to sound like I'm being rude to DE because I love this game a lot, but that drop rate is beyond insulting. I had originally planned to grind out the incubator segment itself and then just buy the genetic code imprints with plat, but after going through that I feel like I was cheated out of my time and effort multiple times over and I don't want to reward that. I'm just going to wait for this to blow over. I mean, this isn't a permanent problem; I remember Kubrows were ridiculous on launch too, so I trust that DE will listen to player feedback on this issue and severely increase the drop rates or rework the methodology of getting kavat genetics entirely to be something more fair.

What hurts me the most about that grind is that I wouldn't mind SLIGHTLY (Like, 10-20 more) increased Kavat incubator segment blueprint requirements or kavat requirements if you were guaranteed an genetic code each time you scanned kavats (That are still guaranteed to spawn in at the exact same spawn rates they have now).

If I sound angry or frustrated instead of level headed about this, it's because what I did for 7 hours felt like some kind of actual psychological torture because whenever you take the time and effort to scan a kavat in a clusterf*ck of infested only to be rewarded with NOTHING it feels like a kick to the balls. It felt like there was no sense of progression, like I was starving while someone threw me a bread crumb to eat every 20 or so runs. This feels worse than the Ivara farm did, which took 15 hours for me. At least on the Ivara farm stealthing spy missions was comfy and leisurely paced and I don't recall outright hating my time doing so since I was getting pretty decent mods and keys in the meantime, but in this it's a race against the clock in a mosh pit of very angry infested and corpus to play "Where's Waldo" with a cat almost a literal hundred or two hundred times and mostly not being rewarded at all for it, and sometimes even having the AI kill the Kavats before you can even scan them.

Edited July 11, 2016 by WMan22
Researched time and effort put in vs. output further than I already did

[vaur06]

Oh and before I forget, here is some calculation for how much ressources is needed to do the 50 runs (assuming you are doing it solo)

For ODE:

Spoiler

• Credits: 6 500 * 50 = 325 000
• Nav Coordinate: 5 * 50 = 250
• Nano Spores: 2 500 * 50 = 125 000
• Salvage: 750 * 50 =  37 500
• Circuits: 80 * 50 = 4 000

For ODC:

Spoiler

• Credits: 6 500 * 50 = 325 000
• Nav Coordinate: 5 * 50 = 250
• Nano Spores: 2 500 * 50 = 125 000
• Ferrite: 750 * 50 =  37 500
• Circuits: 80 * 50 = 4 000

Time spent crafting those: 1 * 50 = 50 minutes

Edit: better format for the post

Edited July 10, 2016 by vaur06

[ajon0827]

DNA samples droprate is a joke.

[Lirka.]

I scanned way too many kavats to count, and got zero dna. 

Please make it so 1 scan gives 1 DNA! I wouldn't even mind an increase in the amount of DNA needed for a kavat if you do so.

[DeMeritus]

Is something broken with the kavat scanning?

I've been scanning cats, but haven't gotten a single DNA thingy.

Did DE_Sheldon accidentally the drop table again or something?

[vaur06]

No, No, it works, It's just incredibly low.

[gluih]

Why are Kavats just so much better than Kubrows?

First of all both are missing vacuum. Carrier should just get somethign else, like allowing you to use your primary weapon when carrying something around.

All sentinels can use medi-ray and guardian. Kubrows and Kavats can't use them. However sentinels can also use animal instinct for some reason.
It seems like Kavats get some more mods that all Kavats can use, but Kubrows are still missing out on that stuff.
Being able to mod a sentinels weapon is also really nice, because of the procs.
There should be a way to protect sentinels for warframes with lower defensive stats. For a frame like inaros, being able to give his comanion high hp and armor is great, but I don't see why frames that maybe want to use quick thinking should be forced to play with sentinels.

Also making you able to red crit on basically every weapon seems more powerful than what most Kubrows have.

Sentinels also have the advantage that you can have more than 1. I don't mind the credits to rush the stasis recovery, but it doesn't seem to be a pleasant experience for the companion. It also means that you can't use different companions in different loadouts, which is really annoying. As a result I just use carrier in all loadouts.

[Anders20]

I love the idea of having to scan the kavats but yeah the drop rate for the genetic code is just too low especially since you need 20 to make incubator seg and first kitty. Also like some have said sometimes the kavats are killed during the mission before you get a chance to scan them. That makes it even harder to get the code. Hopefully the drop rates are fixed so I can get even more kitties.

[TheSteelRat]

Kubrow Dens have a 10% chance to drop an Egg.  and you only need ONE egg per kubrow.  I can usually get an egg every 6 to 20 dens.  which takes about 2 to 5 easy missions (level 1-3 Exterminate before Star Chart 3.0)

For Kavats you need a key to do a mission, and while doing the mission, and being attacked by Enemies and the wild Kavats, you need to scan the Kavat for a rare chance of getting DNA (less then 5%?).  And you need 10 DNA fragments to build the incubator, and another 10 to make a Kavat.

10 for  Kubrow egg = one Kubrow

50 for 10 DNA Fragments = One Kavat

One of these is not like the other, have no idea if that is kind of the point DE is trying to make, that the Kavat > Kubrows and the prices and rarity reflect it

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by kkinnison

[vaur06]

4 minutes ago, gluih said:

All sentinels can use medi-ray and guardian. Kubrows and Kavats can't use them. However sentinels can also use animal instinct for some reason.

Kubrows (and therefore Kavats) got the sanctuary mods which is the equivalent of guardian.

[Deatherage_]

24 minutes ago, kkinnison said:

Kubrow Dens have a 10% chance to drop an Egg.  and you only need ONE egg per kubrow.  I can usually get an egg every 6 to 20 dens.  which takes about 2 to 5 easy missions (level 1-3 Exterminate before Star Chart 3.0)

For Kavats you need a key to do a mission, and while doing the mission, and being attacked by Enemies and the wild Kavats, you need to scan the Kavat for a rare chance of getting DNA (less then 5%?).  And you need 10 DNA fragments to build the incubator, and another 10 to make a Kavat.

to help with doing the kavat scans you can either go for undetected scans because they count as 2 or you can use a slowva or nekros with range to spam terrify so you can scan them just somethings i have used to get scans easier

still after 10 derelict exterminates only got one dna sample for kavats qwq

[Afakur]

Dear DE.

My first and only Kubrow (Jesus) is going to die because of Your doing. 24 scans and no Kavat DNA. 6.5% drop rate made me quit the game without putting Jesus into stasis.

Unless the drop rate is increased, my Kubrow will die (he won't unfortunately respawn in 3 days).

I've been around since update 8 and I feel that the more is added into the game, the more we have to depend on RNG and grind, thus wasting more and more time farming.

I understand that You need people to buy plat, but this drop rate is disgusting. Increase it to maybe 50%. That way farming DNA is way more pleasant and it's still not a guaranteed drop, making some players buy it in market...

... Please, save Jesus.

 

[Ixxolos]

I would have to concur with the majority of Tenno here that the drop rate is just a joke at this point in time, well for me it is at least (I know RNG is well RNG but still this could and should be looked into further). For instance i have scanned a total of 472 feral kavats since the update and have a grand total of 16 DNA! That's a huge grind wall for players imo. Now i understand DE needs to make money etc but seriously i just feel like this was a smack in the chops from whomever internally tested this method of obtaining Kavats.

What was wrong with giving them a nest like Kubrows have and using a system they already have in place e.g. Egg's? Even if the Kavats egg price was slightly higher than the current Kubrow ones it would certainly be a better system than the absurd scanning system we currently have.

Now don't get me wrong i'm all for getting people to spend time in missions and play the game but to hype these pets up as much as DE have then to essentially make players grind for hours in the same mission types doing the same thing over an over to not get what you set out to obtain is just folly or a very nice business tactic to force players to just spend plat and bypass the grind wall that seems to be firmly set in place.

If this system is intended to stay the way it is i would like to see changes to a minimum of 1 DNA for every 2 Kavats scanned at the very least to alleviate some of that ridiculous grind and or at least 2-4 DNA per 5p to make the outright cost a bit closer to the current Kubrow cost. That being said this is strictly my opinion on the matter.  

In further additions this update felt like the scanning RNG update of 2016 and quite honestly a mockery to all Tenno who enjoy the pet system in this game. I really hope DE revise this system soon as for now I as well as many others i see have just given up with it for the time being. 

[BlackCoMerc]

I am fortunate. I could easily just use Plat for a Kavats.

But I won't.

I won't, because this is a free to play game. In which everything is supposed to be available in game. And while DE adheres to the letter of that law, they continually violate the spirit.

At this point Warframe is making anything really desirable in the game so.inconvenient to obtain by playing, that it may as well outright cost money.

I won't support that any longer.

If you want to make Kavats reasonable for everyone, first take them out of ODE. You wanted to kill Derelicts relevance, not is. Stop trying to force us back to it. It's tedious and time consuming. 

Next, 1 scan equals 1 DNA code. Period.

Make the cats reasonable for those who cannot afford to buy one outright. Then I would spend some of my plat to support their introduction.

But so long as you continue to try and push plat through sheer player frustration I will spend the time looking for other coop games to play instead.

Edited July 10, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[MzVelvet]

I was super excited with the prospect of a new critter to farm (oh don't worry I sill love those Kubrows!) but this process is bordering on the insane (I'm a newer player and a bit on the shy side so I mostly run solo so far) I've wound up logging off several times to save my wits. I think the "fun" aspect got lost somewhere in this task and just morphed to "you have a better chance to win the lotto" mode. Also, for those who might not know (I didn't) you can get the Kavat incubator blueprint from your Clan Dojo :)

[polarity]

How about when this gets fixed, everyone gets additional DNA.

Number of scans less 10 for each kavat bred rather than bought, and less 10 for each segment crafted instead of bought.

[gluih]

1 hour ago, vaur06 said:

Kubrows (and therefore Kavats) got the sanctuary mods which is the equivalent of guardian.

What you are talking about is shelter. That's what replaces sanctuary.

What I am talking about is guardian. It boosts your shields back to full once they are removed completely. Raksa Kubrows have the protect ability, which does the same thing, but it's only for raksas.

[CrudShuzKong]

Kavat imprint drop rates are beyond all that is good, and im definitely not spending a dime on anothre set of companions that lack vacuum.

4 drops in over 80 scans is not fair.

[Whitedragon1204]

The Kavats are great!

 

Pros:

They are very cut especially when they meow "Oh no" and when they say "WOW"

Amazing combination of cats :D

I like the mods for the cats because it is unique compare to the kubros.

They dont get stuck and follow you pretty well. 

Cons:

Very complicated way of getting them unlike Kubros.

They keep dying in areas I cant revive them! there body are over the edge floating and so I have to get on the edge as far as possible to revive them. I think there collision needs to be smaller. 

 

Over all I love my Kavat Phara ^^ Thank you guys!