Really DE? we are talking about how we hate nullifiers and you just... BUFF THEM? REALLY?

[RahuHordika]

44 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

Still trying to figure out how people think Nullifiers are difficult.

Still trying to figure out how people don't get the point, right now I am starting to believe said individuals are actively trying to ignore any form of explanation to just go ahead ans say this very kind of sentence.

Nullifiers aren't difficult, it has been said many times before, they are annoying, tedious, uncreative and to counter them is to pigeonhole into gear that essentially limits the diversity of possible loadouts which doesn't happen anywhere else in the game.

1 hour ago, bbeeaann said:

It amazes me people refuse to either take the fight to the Nullifier weapon wise inside the bubble, or by burning down the bubble to use your powers or destroy them with weapons. People want a mindless easy game that takes absolutely no challenge whatsoever..

Ironic, given that your solutions are the the most braindead an unimaginative way to take down an enemy, which sadly are the most efficient way to take down nullies, with the former being a guaranteed death sentence on higher levels where their buddies hide inside the bubble.

If anything people want an actual challenge from creative units that still allow flexibility, than poorly thought ones that offer equally boring solutions to their presence.

[Clowee]

I *think* i may have actually gotten killed by a nullifer today.  First time in 1200 some hours.  Yep, they need nerfed hard /rolls eyes

[grimdraken]

Well if you run Saturn enough, it's bound to happen eventually.  /rolls eyes.

It's the pointy end of the game that exacerbates all the problems with Nullifier design.

I often play frames which require buffs.  If I was to take the advice of having to close the distance , then every freaking time I need to jump inside the damn bubble, it's costing me energy.  Every damn time.  Without fail, fault or lack of skill, you'll be spending energy after the death of that Nullifer to rebuff.  "So what" you say, "just spam your abilities."

Not everyone has the luxury at the pointy end of the game to be spamming their stuff.  "Ok, just drop an energy plate".

Is that honestly the answer to killing a mob?  After death of x, use energy plate.  Is that really ok?

No.  Ok, so we're back to weapons.  Bullet hoses, in primary or secondary.  To deal with 1 enemy type.  Regardless of what you want to use, you'll NEED one to effectively deal with this 1 enemy type, or you'll be staring down the barrel of a possibly energy deficit.

 

They aren't lethal, they aren't challenging, they also aren't fun to deal with.

They're at most annoying, at worst, frustrating and they endorse restricted loadout/frame types.  As has been said, time and time and time and time again;

S#&$ enemy type.  

Keeps getting dev time alloted to it.  Fucken why?

 

How about spending some of that sweet sweet dev love where it's sorely needed instead.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

Just my 2 cents directed at the various 'git goods', 'you just need to figure out how to fight thems,' and 'You're all just lazys' in this thread.  You all miss the point.  The nullifiers are not hard to kill by any stretch of the imagination, but they force you to use the same weapon on every mission just to deal with them.  No other enemy or boss for that matter is so restrictive.  I'm fine with them nullifying abilities but certain weapons like bows and snipers should strait up penetrate the shield (except in sorties where this kind of broken BS is appropriate).  Such a change would encourage weapon diversity in a group.

They are not fun because I can't play with the weapons I want to use (snipers, and bows), and the weapons I am forced to use are boring as hell after using them for literally thousands of missions.

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, bbeeaann said:

This is what the Nullifiers are designed to do. Make you change tactics.

You mean like this?

22 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

*goes to play creative vauban for fissure mission*

Player 1: "Oh yeah, guys? Lemme plant some teslas here first. And maybe a vortex over there! It's a TRAP!"

*nullifier spawns and deletes everything in a blink of an eye*

P1: "Mhhhhhm, FUUUUUUUN......."

P2: "Bruh, stop crying you cheesy noob and git gud."

P3: "Told ya it's not gonna work. Let me do this!"

*slides with orthos prime/lesion everything away*

P3: "Ez pz lemon sqez."

P2: "I still love nullifiers! They add challenge and fun and make us think and add creative gaming tactics!11"

*P4 & P1 putting P2 on ignore*

The end.

 

I'm seriously posting this now every time i see this funny argument. Maybe i can open some people's eyes. You might want to find yourself in "Player 2's" position btw.

1 hour ago, bbeeaann said:

It seems to me the only players who have issues with these mobs are those who refuse to adapt.

If by "adapting" you mean leaving the enjoyment at home and getting nerve-wrecked, then yeah, i refuse to adapt. It seems to me that some people really try hard to look tough on forums or are just willfully ignoring the obvious issues with nullifiers because they get paid for that or are masochists. I really tryed hard to consider your "arguments", i really tryed hard to find some logic in them, but as long as i only see this:

1 hour ago, Clowee said:

I *think* i may have actually gotten killed by a nullifer today.  First time in 1200 some hours.  Yep, they need nerfed hard /rolls eyes

or

just people straight up ignoring the main points and actual logical arguments by blindly assuming that others can't beat nullifiers and gotta "git gud" only in order to swipe the issues under a carpet, i really have a hard time taking you serious.

2 hours ago, bbeeaann said:

**Btw If you guys haven't noticed. The more you complain and bi tch about the Nullifiers the stronger DE makes them. Maybe the devs are trying to tell you something?**

Yes. They just proved once again how super-awesome their balancing sense is.

[Fionntan]

10 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Yes. They just proved once again how super-awesome their balancing sense is.

I wonder if these folks that defend nulls would defend new idea from DE like... a virus similar to Monster Hunter:

Quote

When monsters manage to overcome the Frenzy Virus they will be able to suppress the Virus' fatal afflictions while retaining its benefits; and even use the virus itself and weaponize it for their own use, turning them into a completely new threat entirely. This is referred as the Apex State.

"While under the Apex state, their skin is far more rigid and harder to damage, so even the strongest weapons with the highest sharpness or with an ESP skill will bounce and elemental and status effects will be nullified. They will also receive 80% less damage from all attacks and gain an immunity to traps. However, by using special Wystones the Hunter will be able to inflict status/elemental damage to monsters, or successfully attack them without bouncing. The Apex state can be temporarily suppressed with the use of these Wystones, much like the regular Frenzied state. "

So in short they are immune unless player uses an "item" with cooldown to damage them. Oh and they are more likely to inflict fatal shots (one shot kill).

Wonder how'll that pan out in the warframe universe... :3

[-Sandman]

5 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Yes. They just proved once again how super-awesome their balancing sense is.

Its funny that the people who ask for the nullifier buffs are the ones that also say warframe abilities are too cheesy. Yet the nullifier itself is just more cheese. How about create and scale abilities and scale enemies better in the first place? Or are they simply not capable? 

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

6 hours ago, Fionntan said:

I wonder if these folks that defend nulls would defend new idea from DE like... a virus similar to Monster Hunter:

So in short they are immune unless player uses an "item" with cooldown to damage them. Oh and they are more likely to inflict fatal shots (one shot kill).

Wonder how'll that pan out in the warframe universe... :3

I absolutely loathed the Apex monsters. A neat concept, but horrible execution.

[(XBOX)Lem0n Sama]

The Nullifier is an increasingly common mob that does more jobs than almost every planet boss in the game. Its used far too often as a crutch, it forces even more of a meta of "all the right" frames and weapons, any unpopular frame or weapon that doesn't fit in this meta are quickly called worthless, and the players that use them are shunned. Why? Because we need to be challenged? Why does a common mob need to challenge anything? That is a boss mob's job, which are obviously rare occurences, even more so in Warframe. We are supposed to be gunning down entire bases and vessels worth of troops, our enemies are literally endless. Throwing specific mobs at us, which completely disable certain frames and weapons, forcing us to play a specific way or be bullied by the community, most certainly IS poor design.

[IceColdHawk]

3 hours ago, -Sandman said:

How about create and scale abilities and scale enemies better in the first place? Or are they simply not capable? 

Cuz that would be too easy.

3 hours ago, -Sandman said:

Its funny that the people who ask for the nullifier buffs

What even funnier is, is the fact that noone asked for a nullifier buff, only for nerf. Yet we received the opposite :D

[-Sandman]

5 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

What even funnier is, is the fact that noone asked for a nullifier buff, only for nerf. Yet we received the opposite :D

Well we asked for a nullifier rework. We got a nullifier rework. It just was not very good. 

[BulletsforTeeth]

1 hour ago, -Sandman said:

Well we asked for a nullifier rework. We got a nullifier rework. It just was not very good. 

Actually no, we got a "fix". A fix in the same vein as excalibur's pre-rework RJ 'fix'. IE a thinly veiled nerf, only in this case a buff. Granted, with RJ it was deserved. Nullifiers though, the last goddamn thing they needed was a buff of all things.

 

[Azrael]

19 hours ago, bbeeaann said:

I use my powers, and every single one of my weapons, including bows and sniper rifles on Nullifiers without any issue.

Please elaborate. What powers do you use on nullifiers? Please note that shooting down the bubble with a high-RoF weapon and then using a power on them doesn't really count, since at that point you could simply kill them with any weapon in the game.

And since you use all your weapons to kill them, please explain what it's like to kill them with a glaive. Or tell us about what it's like to face two nullifiers with nested bubbles, who have level 100 bombards and heavy gunners under them, and kill all these with a rubico. Since, you know, you kill them with every single one of your weapons without issue.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Lord_Azrael

[Ikusias]

What i find funny is that De "fixed" (in the castration sense) mazny warframe abilities because they were too strong, overpowered etch, then they take one of the cheesiest units in the game and amke it even worse:

1) the bubble:

- it's a mobile shield - the most effective in the game - should have been statinoary and needing activation instead of being always on;

- gated damage and fixed shrink rate - anything that isn't fast firing is pretty useless as you need 8-10 instances of damage to collapse the bubble in a fixed amount of time;

- excessive area coverage - by default nullifiers bubbles have the equivalent of a stretched snowglobe or cataclism footprint and can get bigger

- elastic surface - grenades and area effect weapons ricochet like hell resulting in selfkills if you aren't using something safe (tonkor)

- no more area damage trough the bubble - at least this goes for warframe defensive powers as well now (except scorches flamer)

- can stack with multiple units - can stack with eximus snowglobe inside it, a bit too many shields on a single unit as the nullifier usually has decent shielding as well!

- immediate restart - a collapsed nullifier bubble restart expanding immediately and can't be disabled permanently unless the carrier is killed - combas and similar units instead can lose their nullifying capabilities with focused damage;

- all powers stripping - nullifier bubbles don't simply resist powers, they cancel every warfame power in the game by contact instantly ignoring power strenght, oppnonet level and the like - WTF DE!? no warframe would ever be permitted to have a power with similar blanket conditions nor any unit in the game should be permitted to!

- powers stripping prt. 2 - a nullifier with a downed bubble and it's allyes under the effect of an ongoing power are instantly cleansed on bubble restart - a nullifier and its accompaniing units are the facto immune to anything even if the nullifying field is down;

- powers stripping prt. 3 - it stops focus powers, something that is revealed after a damn cinematic quest, requires a disproportionate amount of grinding and besides a pair of passives proves to be quite underwhelimg and in beta testing, as effectively as any other power - ARE YOU NUTS!? shouldn't focus represent the pinnacle of warframe capabilities? and it's nullified by two bit tech? talk about a letdown.

2) the unit:

- basically a corpus sniper - but if there is any augmentation active, like in sorties it can became as tany as a bombard - even before the null field

- very mobile, it can run as fast if not faster than many warframes - too much mobility for a unit with sio much allready going on for it

- equipped with a potential One Hit Ko sniper rifle, as if the bubble didn't have too much range already

- they fixed it a bit but for such a "unique" unit spawn rates are overinflated - it should be rarer than bursas or as rare as the grineer manic, considering that corpus have other 12 nullifying units! (one of the bursas and the variants of the modular units: combas, scrambus and the other too many power stoppers in a game based on powers)

 

So, if any warframe power had even a pair of the points in the above list it would be considered overpowered (see volt "riot shield" and how ridiculous usage conditins are), but all this garbage syntethized in a single unit is ok?

To the get good or go home people in the thread. you should go home if you are okay with this rubbish - it's not a question if nullifiers are difficult to kill or not, if they are overpowered or not - it's a question of respect from DE: Why? because DE staff saw fit to "tweak" warframe powers by running many builds into the ground because they were trivializing the game, but considerded legit to keep a unit, in a faction full of lesser offenders of the same kind, that can trivialize and negate every power and ability in the game without any drawback or in game lore/ justification besides corpus are good at tech/Salad v did it.

Nullifiers should be retired from the game and replaced with something else better tought and more fitting.

I don't dislike the idea of a fixed field stripping or inhibiting warframe powers, but it should be some kind of trap in specific corpus tiles or equipment needing setup time like grineer backpack inflatable barriers or being a destroyable ability tied to bigger units like the Jackal or the Razorback and in general being absolutely indiscriminate negating both friend and foe powers (like those of eximus units or ancient auras).

As they are nullifiers received a huge and gratuitous boost to threath level - the opposite of what the community asked for.

They are a long standing stopgap measure to the ongoing problem of bad balancing in warframe.

Nullifiers must be retired so that DE staff is forced to tackle the actual problem. challenging the players without resorting to gimping them any possible way.

How do others games do it? Loock at Borderlands 1 and 2 - no unit can negate players powers, so there are a lot of enemies on screen, vehicles and heavy units, and in general high damage units with flea Hp a la Dark Souls - everything except bosses dies fast but can still damage the players hard enough to open them to defeat by the other units on screen - all this without cheesing on knockdowns, instakill abilities, power negation and the like - just decent game design.

To De: i would like you took the time to review your unit desing poilcy and fix it, it's so broken as to being ridiculous, jet the one time you did things right - with the nightwatch grineer - you dumped that units as a one off - why?

[BlackCoMerc]

On 7/20/2016 at 2:58 AM, bbeeaann said:

     I do this on sniper only Survival Sorties. It isn't hard. Charge the bubble and get inside, no scope the Nullifier in the face, and move about your way. It's rather easy if you have decent parkour skills.Still trying to figure out how people think Nullifiers are difficult. In fact I'm still irked the community had the Bursas nerfed into oblivion because people refuse to adapt to enemy tactics. It amazes me people refuse to either take the fight to the Nullifier weapon wise inside the bubble, or by burning down the bubble to use your powers or destroy them with weapons. People want a mindless easy game that takes absolutely no challenge whatsoever..

You condemn others for wanting a mindless, easy game, while literally EVERY post supporting Nullifiers says the same thing: rush the bubble, kill.

Who is it thats supporting mindless play, again? I ask this in all honesty, mind.

Edited July 24, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[BlackCoMerc]

3 hours ago, Ikusias said:

What i find funny is that De "fixed" (in the castration sense) mazny warframe abilities because they were too strong, overpowered etch, then they take one of the cheesiest units in the game and amke it even worse:

1) the bubble:

- it's a mobile shield - the most effective in the game - should have been statinoary and needing activation instead of being always on;

- gated damage and fixed shrink rate - anything that isn't fast firing is pretty useless as you need 8-10 instances of damage to collapse the bubble in a fixed amount of time;

- excessive area coverage - by default nullifiers bubbles have the equivalent of a stretched snowglobe or cataclism footprint and can get bigger

- elastic surface - grenades and area effect weapons ricochet like hell resulting in selfkills if you aren't using something safe (tonkor)

- no more area damage trough the bubble - at least this goes for warframe defensive powers as well now (except scorches flamer)

- can stack with multiple units - can stack with eximus snowglobe inside it, a bit too many shields on a single unit as the nullifier usually has decent shielding as well!

- immediate restart - a collapsed nullifier bubble restart expanding immediately and can't be disabled permanently unless the carrier is killed - combas and similar units instead can lose their nullifying capabilities with focused damage;

- all powers stripping - nullifier bubbles don't simply resist powers, they cancel every warfame power in the game by contact instantly ignoring power strenght, oppnonet level and the like - WTF DE!? no warframe would ever be permitted to have a power with similar blanket conditions nor any unit in the game should be permitted to!

- powers stripping prt. 2 - a nullifier with a downed bubble and it's allyes under the effect of an ongoing power are instantly cleansed on bubble restart - a nullifier and its accompaniing units are the facto immune to anything even if the nullifying field is down;

- powers stripping prt. 3 - it stops focus powers, something that is revealed after a damn cinematic quest, requires a disproportionate amount of grinding and besides a pair of passives proves to be quite underwhelimg and in beta testing, as effectively as any other power - ARE YOU NUTS!? shouldn't focus represent the pinnacle of warframe capabilities? and it's nullified by two bit tech? talk about a letdown.

2) the unit:

- basically a corpus sniper - but if there is any augmentation active, like in sorties it can became as tany as a bombard - even before the null field

- very mobile, it can run as fast if not faster than many warframes - too much mobility for a unit with sio much allready going on for it

- equipped with a potential One Hit Ko sniper rifle, as if the bubble didn't have too much range already

- they fixed it a bit but for such a "unique" unit spawn rates are overinflated - it should be rarer than bursas or as rare as the grineer manic, considering that corpus have other 12 nullifying units! (one of the bursas and the variants of the modular units: combas, scrambus and the other too many power stoppers in a game based on powers)

 

So, if any warframe power had even a pair of the points in the above list it would be considered overpowered (see volt "riot shield" and how ridiculous usage conditins are), but all this garbage syntethized in a single unit is ok?

To the get good or go home people in the thread. you should go home if you are okay with this rubbish - it's not a question if nullifiers are difficult to kill or not, if they are overpowered or not - it's a question of respect from DE: Why? because DE staff saw fit to "tweak" warframe powers by running many builds into the ground because they were trivializing the game, but considerded legit to keep a unit, in a faction full of lesser offenders of the same kind, that can trivialize and negate every power and ability in the game without any drawback or in game lore/ justification besides corpus are good at tech/Salad v did it.

Nullifiers should be retired from the game and replaced with something else better tought and more fitting.

I don't dislike the idea of a fixed field stripping or inhibiting warframe powers, but it should be some kind of trap in specific corpus tiles or equipment needing setup time like grineer backpack inflatable barriers or being a destroyable ability tied to bigger units like the Jackal or the Razorback and in general being absolutely indiscriminate negating both friend and foe powers (like those of eximus units or ancient auras).

As they are nullifiers received a huge and gratuitous boost to threath level - the opposite of what the community asked for.

They are a long standing stopgap measure to the ongoing problem of bad balancing in warframe.

Nullifiers must be retired so that DE staff is forced to tackle the actual problem. challenging the players without resorting to gimping them any possible way.

How do others games do it? Loock at Borderlands 1 and 2 - no unit can negate players powers, so there are a lot of enemies on screen, vehicles and heavy units, and in general high damage units with flea Hp a la Dark Souls - everything except bosses dies fast but can still damage the players hard enough to open them to defeat by the other units on screen - all this without cheesing on knockdowns, instakill abilities, power negation and the like - just decent game design.

To De: i would like you took the time to review your unit desing poilcy and fix it, it's so broken as to being ridiculous, jet the one time you did things right - with the nightwatch grineer - you dumped that units as a one off - why?

I don't get it either. The Nightwatch are a solid foundation for future design. Why they aren't used as such, I don't know. They felt like T4 without the Sponges, and it was genuinely exhilarating.

Alas, now, it's sponges and knockdown spam and turning off our powers once more.

It's DE don't WANT us to enjoy the late game...

[-Sandman]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I don't get it either. The Nightwatch are a solid foundation for future design. Why they aren't used as such, I don't know. They felt like T4 without the Sponges, and it was genuinely exhilarating.

Alas, now, it's sponges and knockdown spam and turning off our powers once more.

It's DE don't WANT us to enjoy the late game...

Well I did read somewhere that they think the (late) game is too rewarding, so it makes sense. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by -Sandman

[Mr._Clean]

On ‎2016‎-‎07‎-‎08 at 8:45 AM, armlesspotato said:

*all max ranged globe frosts screams and cries in a corner*

This is one of the problems I hate, Vauban suffers from a similar problem. You can no longer build range because now in doing so you're making the ability LESS effective because it gets nullified more often if not instantly unless you have someone running around the perimeter all the time taking out the Nullifiers instead of working with the rest of the team.

 

The best part is you expend the energy to cast, but it turns out there was a nullifier on the other side of the wall which immediately cancels out your ability. But you don't get refunded the energy because you were allowed to cast it in the first place.

 

It's a stupid punishment.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Mr._Clean

[BlackCoMerc]

14 hours ago, Mr._Clean said:

This is one of the problems I hate, Vauban suffers from a similar problem. You can no longer build range because now in doing so you're making the ability LESS effective because it gets nullified more often if not instantly unless you have someone running around the perimeter all the time taking out the Nullifiers instead of working with the rest of the team.

 

The best part is you expend the energy to cast, but it turns out there was a nullifier on the other side of the wall which immediately cancels out your ability. But you don't get refunded the energy because you were allowed to cast it in the first place.

 

It's a stupid punishment.

This made a mobile defense on a Corpus tile last night UTTERLY TEDIOUS. 

There is nothing challenging about running into the bubble and killing these dudes. But there is something INCREDIBLY TEDIOUS about having to recast an ability like Snowglobe every 45 seconds. Its ridiculous.

I dont care if some frames need a nerf. So long as Nullifier leaves the game, and you can offer challenge while still allowing players to HAVE POWERS AT ALL it would be a net gain as far as I am concerned. This over reliance on power immunity and taking away our tools is killing the fun of the game.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 7/21/2016 at 4:24 AM, IceColdHawk said:

You mean like this?

I'm seriously posting this now every time i see this funny argument. Maybe i can open some people's eyes. You might want to find yourself in "Player 2's" position btw.

If by "adapting" you mean leaving the enjoyment at home and getting nerve-wrecked, then yeah, i refuse to adapt. It seems to me that some people really try hard to look tough on forums or are just willfully ignoring the obvious issues with nullifiers because they get paid for that or are masochists. I really tryed hard to consider your "arguments", i really tryed hard to find some logic in them, but as long as i only see this:

or

just people straight up ignoring the main points and actual logical arguments by blindly assuming that others can't beat nullifiers and gotta "git gud" only in order to swipe the issues under a carpet, i really have a hard time taking you serious.

Yes. They just proved once again how super-awesome their balancing sense is.

They were implemented to stop press 4 to win players like old saryn, ash, and others of the like. Only problem is, THOSE FRAMES HAVE BEEN REWORKED!! There are no more real Press 4 to Win warframes anymore (ash is getting reworked, chill "Git Gud" a-holes). Now with the warframe reworks, it's time to get the enemy reworks

What's that? Nullifier rework? My prayers answered. What is it? They're stronger now? And we're weaker? What a great enemy. I can't wait to fight 12 of them in one room. FUUUUUN. -_-

I've always said, that power negating mechanics should not be a common mechanic for this game. Powers are what define our game. Only enemies that are equally iconic and defining should negate them, basically the opposite of us. Yet, the most dangerous enemy in this game, is a common foot soldier with a tomato can on his back. I've had a harder time with nullifer capture targets than The Sergeant, and a bursa has given me more challenge than the actual boss. It is ridiculous. DE is trying to send us a message that we cannot be all-powerful in their game, but instead of humbling us with an enemy that is more powerful than us, providing our tenno with an actual challenge (that word has been butchered to death by adolescents on these forums), we have an enemy that gimps us and makes us less powerful. It's backwards logic. It stops progress instead of furthering the boundries of it.

I can understand why DE still keeps them, because they look awesome with the whole glowing aura thing and the corrupted golden glowing globe. It looks cool, but the effects are just complete garbage, and instead of us marveling at the enemy and wanting to face it, we back away from it and avoid it, or mindlessly slide attack in and get the kill to destroy it. I made a rework post that in my opinion balanced the nullifers, but people shot it down telling me to get good, even though I top leaderboards like candy on this game. From that experience, I've changed my mind. I don't want a balanced enemy anymore. I don't want the enemy period. Drop it, I'm done with the challenge aspect. If I want a challenge, put these effects on a boss and maybe we won't one-shot them with a sancti tigris anymore.. Still not enough? Put it into every boss that we cannot use powers until maybe stage 2 of a boss fight. That's a real challenge. Real enemies should give challenges, not the nameless foot soldiers we face. I do not want to see another nullifier bubble again.

[DiabolusUrsus]

If you guys want Nullifiers to go away or be toned down - not that I disagree, mind you - you have to be willing to sacrifice some of your godly power. No more 40+m AOE abilities that prevent enemies from fighting back that you can spam indefinitely. No more weapons that dish out 25k+ damage per second.

If that's the power at your disposal, how else do you expect things to be able to fight back? 

Our demand for "challenge" that isn't just a "bullet sponge" combined with our infantile refusal to accept the tyranny of "nerfs" is precisely what landed us with enemies like Nullifiers. Until we don't have the option of pressing an "I win" button with reckless abandon, and until enemies stand a chance of lasting more than a second or two on-screen, we will not be given the option of facing thoughtful and legitimately interesting enemies.

It's that simple. 

[BulletsforTeeth]

4 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

If you guys want Nullifiers to go away or be toned down - not that I disagree, mind you - you have to be willing to sacrifice some of your godly power. No more 40+m AOE abilities that prevent enemies from fighting back that you can spam indefinitely. No more weapons that dish out 25k+ damage per second.

If that's the power at your disposal, how else do you expect things to be able to fight back? 

Our demand for "challenge" that isn't just a "bullet sponge" combined with our infantile refusal to accept the tyranny of "nerfs" is precisely what landed us with enemies like Nullifiers. Until we don't have the option of pressing an "I win" button with reckless abandon, and until enemies stand a chance of lasting more than a second or two on-screen, we will not be given the option of facing thoughtful and legitimately interesting enemies.

It's that simple. 

Not really, they could simply block, specifically, AOE powers or negate them without cancelling. Or at least allow other methods of killing them not related to powers. Like, say snipers, or slower weapons. Something skill based to more effectively dispatch them.

[catastrophy]

Eximus Leeches are worse.

Edited July 26, 2016 by catastrophy

[Corwel]

If the game was properly balanced, we wouldn't need enemies that can dispell every single ability in the game. We have a variety of skills that can trivialize any content, so there must be enemies that can trivialize our skills in order to compensate. It's an extremely cheap way to balance a game indeed, but I don't see it changing anytime soon so better get used to this. They would need to rework so many aspects of the game to change this that it's not worth it for them, probably.

[Sigmas71]

55 minutes ago, TBWolf said:

If the game was properly balanced, we wouldn't need enemies that can dispell every single ability in the game. We have a variety of skills that can trivialize any content, so there must be enemies that can trivialize our skills in order to compensate. It's an extremely cheap way to balance a game indeed, but I don't see it changing anytime soon so better get used to this. They would need to rework so many aspects of the game to change this that it's not worth it for them, probably.

Basically why i stopped putting money into the game. This very mentality has driven warframe into an ugly corner where crutch solutions and bandage mods are seen as ok. Just look at this thread. Most of the players today are just noobs who dont know any better, see a nullifier for the first time and go OMG I HAVE NO POWERZ, TIME FOR 1337 TACT1CS, SUCH FUN. This is simply because most of the veterans have left by now. Few here remember or understand the cancer this unit has been to the community when the stakes were high (alerts and events, endless missions, now sorties and voidxcavation) and how the general concept that bred it is a MASSIVE BANDAID to poorly designed nuke powers, and blanket hard-cc.

This was long before the frame reworks began, but now i can understand why the knee-jerk "solutions" that plague our patch notes are becoming more common and not less. I believe a re-think is sorely needed in how balance is being approached.

This is a beautiful game with enormous potential for freedom and tailored gameplay for EVERYONE. But it still feels like half the game was designed to hamper the mechanics that make it unique