Status 2.0: What should D.E do with 100% plus status chance ?

[(XBOX)BroaderSaucer]

100% chance = 100% for 1 type of random status proc

110% chance = 100% for 1 type of random status proc and 10% for a second random status proc

[-NG-STK]

6 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

 

Addresses status damage specifically

The above tweaks of corrosive and puncture can then be applied using the same logic of percentile reduction or the way the status effect interacted with the npc's

We do need a mod for status damage i dont know if it should be max r5 mod or max r10 thought

[Phyrak]

8 minutes ago, STK112 said:

We do need a mod for status damage i dont know if it should be max r5 mod or max r10 thought

Same as the others

R5 should be the standard imo

Just as with the crit

[Phyrak]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)BroaderSaucer said:

100% chance = 100% for 1 type of random status proc

110% chance = 100% for 1 type of random status proc and 10% for a second random status proc

Perhaps have the first proc be 10% stronger too?

It'll help with competing against the massive crit damage

[Burnthesteak87]

1. Delete Critical Strikes. Remove Critical Hit Damage.
   Reason explained at Point 2.
    
2. Merge Critical Strike and Status. Welcome Critical Status.
   Thematically, landing a critical strike should be a fortunate blow causing more devastating consequences on the structure of the enemy.
   There's no difference into hitting a critical spot causing more damage or hitting a vessel causing a bleedout. It's technically the same.
    
3. Make Critical Status only apply on hitting a Weak Point. Head, Body, Arms, Legs. Eventually Customized Weak Points..
   Let's promote Aim more than brainless RNG.
   Standard Status Procs keep having their chance of applying the standard effect.
    
4. Different Interactions. Make different effects about Critical Status basing on the Weak Point hit.
   ►Example#1: Slash's Critical Status on a limb results into a mutilation with mortal bleeding (if necessary involve also as condition a % of health for low vitality gore deaths).
   
   
   ►Example#2: Impact's Critical Status on the head would result into a Concussion, on the body into a stagger or knockback, on legs into a knockdown, onto arms or weapon into a disarm or stagger action.
   
   
   ►Example#3: Piercing's and Corrosive's Critical Status could open a Breach into the target armor, placing a weakspot ala Banshee's Sonar.
   Piercing and Corrosive would need no Weak Point to apply their Critical Status, they would apply it on every body part.
   
   
   ►Example#4: Toxic's Critical Status on limb results into applying Weakess and slowing actions. (Many poisons stop muscles).
   On the head it reduces the target's aim (numbing effect).
   ►Example#5: Cold's Critical Status could stop actions, movement, clogging weapons.
   
    
5. Let the Status alone manage everything. Critical Status will be 25-50% of the total Status.
   Status mods need to be changed. Raising Status should be increased while reducing damage.
    
6. Allow more than 100% Status.
    
7. Rebalance weapons according to Status application and Rof.
   Slow weapons like Snipers will have more chances on a single shot, Automatic weapons will have way less chances for every bullet. Unless it would be a status weapon like single Grakata, then the drawback should be on lowering damage outside weakspots.
    
8. Promote weapon diversity.
    
9. Work on enemy armor too: Different types of armor gains Resilience, a special resistance or reduction to specific Status application %.

In game are yet present mechanics where damage and interaction keep tracking of hits on body parts:
Banshee's Sonar, Nukor's effect, traditional Headshots, body dismemberment for gore deaths, Knockdowns on hitting legs, frontal or back finishers...

Basis to make it realizable could yet be here.


TL;DR: Points #2 and #3.
Merge Critical Strike and Status; make Critical Status only apply by hitting specific weakpoints; every weakpoint has its own critical effect. 
Simple, easier, with more potential, more RNG driven by the player and less RNG driven by the RNG.

PS:
Frontier Trooper character and render rights to Digital Extreme.
Even if it's for fan art, if I'm infracting any right by editing them, let me know.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[-NG-STK]

7 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Same as the others

R5 should be the standard imo

Just as with the crit

Yeah you are probably right.

[Phyrak]

Just now, STK112 said:

Yeah you are probably right.

Standardizing makes everything easier to balance XD

[Stratego89]

Let's worry about how BELOW 100% and damage as a whole will work before worrying about that yeah?

Status in it's current iteration is... bad. I don't wanna say that- because I love it- but it's the truth.

We don't need status 2.0. We need damage 3.0- with status 2.0 being a side effect.

My personal thoughts are as follows. Short and simple version:

• Elements no longer deal damage (for the love of god... read through to the end before getting your pitchforks)
• IPS now have INNATE effects. Think "100%" status chance on them 100% of the time. Eg. Impact has a 100% chance to have a 30% chance to lightly stagger and 20% chance to heavily stagger an enemy (sounds redundant but it's a balance thing- the point is it's NOT tied to status chance anymore, it's just innate).or instead impact adds "stacks" to an enemy on each shot that will stagger an enemy once it hits a certain point. Think poise from dark souls- if you know what that is. Slash would gain the ability to dismember LIVING enemies- using the previously mentioned stacks mechanic. Dismemberment would affect enemy movement, attacks, or simply lop off their head for a kill. Removal of two limbs could also qualify for a kill. A limiter of "enemy must be below 50/75% health to achieve a kill using slash damage stacks. Puncture could create weak spots and have a % armor ignore. For weak points- think invisible (or the visual of holes in armor) versions of sonar- only much weaker, much smaller, and permanent. Puncture could also need you to get "stacks" on a certain area of an enemy to create these weak spots or just have a % chance.
• Damage multipliers (eg how heat is better against flesh) is now limited strictly to IPS damage. Elements no longer carry any multipliers (SERIOUSLY. PUT. DOWN. THE TORCH. Admittedly this one is a big maybe even in my own book. Just hear the rest out).
• Impact= LARGE bonus against shielding and machines/robotics. Moderate buff against flesh. Small buff against armor.
• Puncture = Moderate bonus against armor. Small bonus against shielding and machines/robotics. No bonus against flesh.
• Slash = LARGE bonus against flesh. Moderately weak against armor, machines/robotics. No bonus/negatives against shielding.
• Armor types are merged- no need for two different kinds in the new system.
• (Enemy) armor now degrades with all attacks in the location (torso/Larm/Rarm/Lleg/Rleg/head) you attack while using impact/slash. Degredation is slow and weak- but reduces the effectiveness of armor. Impact's degredation is more effective.
• Elements are now the ONLY thing affected by status chance (this means no more competing for IPS and being unreliable).
• Elements' status procs are reworked to be more... useful... practical. A COUPLE examples below, but it's only the tip of the iceberg- many need changes:
• Magnetic proc is now an AoE that works similar to an EMP. Enemies in range of the proc'd enemy lose 75% of their current shields. If shields are below 50% already, they are completely wiped. Enemy robotics within range either have their accuracy/vision drastically reduced or are completely "disabled" for a period- depending on the range from the origin of the proc. Cameras are simply disabled for a period. Laser grids and alarm consoles caught in range are also temporarily disabled.
• Fire and toxin proc will now spread between enemies that make contact with others (also viral proc will spread to contacted enemies that have had a limb dismembered).
• Ice procs can stack up and can freeze an enemy firmly in place for a few seconds.
• Radiation procs now cause the proc'd enemy to deal weak aoe damage in range for several seconds, on top of the original effect.
• Gas procs now create a small cloud that lingers in the area and deals damage to those inside, on top of the original effect.
• Base damage mods are removed- weapon effectiveness that would be lost by this change will either be dealt with through weapon-level=damage-increase suggestion that's been thrown around, or simply made not an issue by rebalancing based around this fact (it's not that hard when everything's being rebalanced)
• Mods are added that convert a % of total weapon damage to a specific IPS type.
• All PURE element mods are modified to add a SMALL amount of each IPS damage type. NOTE: This does NOT mean dualstat (+element,+status) mods.

Now the multiple points of these suggestions for status (and damage as a whole) are to make the system simpler, more reliable overall (less layers of RNG), and make it more beneficial to thinking while playing- where you shoot a target, how you can handle them. Weapons should affect playstyle past just "sniper for VIP targets, assault rifle for crowds, shotgun when close. Modding shouldn't just buff up their damage and do mild status effects; it should drastically affect the playstyle of the weapon. Open possibilities. Cover the weapons' weaknesses or play off and compliment the weapons' strengths.

I am also under the strong belief that the crit system should be reworked and altered in it's own way to promote skill in aiming for "weak spots" such as the head or vital organs or robotic chips etc etc- either to boost crit chance/damage overall, or for those special areas to be NECESSARY to hit in order for the chance to gain a critical hit. This is not just to promote skillful play rather than just spraying and praying- but also to help balance out the sheer power the damage crits can bring does. A spray and pray gun looses effectiveness if it's not controlled well. A single fire weapon like snipers loose effectiveness if they're not handled properly as well. Proper use of your weapon would become important. I do however understand and have considered this could be an issue with melee weapons- which the OP mod blood rush aside (more like included. That mod is a problem) are already not in the best place. Perhaps we're in need of melee 3.0 as well but that's another issue. For now the focus should be on how damage as a whole- and the systems that compliment it- should be the focus.

Considering the power the new status effects would provide, and the already overwhelming power of crits (rebalancing can ofc be taken into account) I do not believe their should be benefits to going past 100% for either status or crit chance. It's just plain unnecessary. Does that make things a bit boring maybe? Perhaps, at least for some people. But "super cool stuff that is heavily reliant on RNG and is therefore not reliable" cannot ever compare to "not that exciting, but reliable, effective, and overall interesting and solid- and most importantly balanced". It just can't.

 

That ended up a lot longer than I thought it would. Maybe I should have posted it in it's own thread, but it's on topic and not even CLOSE to my full thoughts so I guess I'll just post it here anyways.

[AlphaPHENIX]

1 hour ago, STK112 said:

At TennoCon D.E mention status chance over 100% and what they should do with it, do you guys have any idea that you might want to implement in the game ?

I think it should deal special proc base on which element you are using. For example: electricity should bounce to nearby target, ice can freeze enemy solid, etc ....

Electricity already does bounce to nearby targets, it is a chain attack stun after all, but maybe increase the range of the proc and make it look more like plasma which works like Volt's Discharge on electrical objects (not sure if it still does that).

Here are some other ideas:

• Cold: Turns the target into an ice statue, with targets in a 5m radius getting a normal cold proc. If a high puncture, or puch through, weapon is used on the statue, it shatters and can be used for synergy with Mag's Crush and Magnetize abilities. (To explain this, even though they are frozen pieces of statues, there is still metel beneath that ice)
• Toxin: A few mini spores, which act like a slightly weaker Saryn spores and don't spread.
• Blast: Shatters 15% (maybe thats a bit high) of the traget's armour and does extra Impact damage.
• Corrosive: Against all, has a chance to jam weapons. Against Grineer, does extra damage due to corrosian in their already decaying bodies, Against Robotic enamies, makes their metel rust, slowing them down and lowering accuracy.
• Gas: Makes targets in the AOE start coughing, stunning them for 2 seconds (Corpus) 3 seconds (Grineer) and opening them for finishers. Does not work on Infested and Robotic enamies.
• Magnetic: Against Corpus, works like Mag's magnetize without the bubble. Against Grineer, strips armour of all targets in an AOE by 10 at speed depending on their distance from the target with the proc. If multiple procs occur, the effect is stacked up to a cap of 5 targets. Can also be used in synergy with Mag's Crush and Magnetize (only on Grineer).

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by AlphaPHENIX
added another bonus to magnetic

[polarity]

When you hit 100% then your highest damage type should be 100% proc chance, instead of there still being a chance of other damage types on the weapon proccing instead.  Anything over 100% becomes the chance for a second proc from the remaining damage types.

Giving statuses additional effects over 100% is kind of pointless, when that 100% doesn't even give them a good chance of happening.

Edited July 10, 2016 by polarity

[RadioLarity]

I think it should be an additional effect example:

Blast should ragdoll,

Puncture would reveal a hidden weakspot [similarly to banshee's sonar],

Corrosive maybe should give you the armor that you stripped with regular proc,

Viral would heal you,

Magnetic unable enemies to use their abilities (so, bombards shouldn't ground slam, nullifiers bubbles shouldn't work, ancient healer aure would be turned off)

Radiation would give maybe like 10% chance that radiated enemies would proc regular radiation.

 

I could go on whole day.
Came up with some I guess balanced ideas.

 

 

EDIT#: I would like to see Impact opening enemies to finishers as well

Edited July 10, 2016 by RadioLarity

[LascarCapable]

Okay, here's are thoughts about it :

• Impact : longer stun, opens for finishers.
• Puncture : stronger puncture effect, 30% damage increase.
• Slash : stronger bleed DoT.
• Heat : AoE heat DoT and slightly stronger effect.
• Cold : freeze.
• Electric : longer range, stun main targed AND chained targets alike.
• Poison : stronger poison DoT.
• Gas : better range, stronger poison DoT.
• Blast : better range, ragdoll instead of simple knockdown.
• Radiation : classic radiation effect + disarm enemy .
• Magnetic : negates shields permanently, AoE.
• Viral : reduce hp permanently, AoE.
• Corrosive : stronger armor reduction. AoE.

[Kiochy]

1 hour ago, STK112 said:

At TennoCon D.E mention status chance over 100% and what they should do with it, do you guys have any idea that you might want to implement in the game ?

I think it should deal special proc base on which element you are using. For example: electricity should bounce to nearby target, ice can freeze enemy solid, etc ....

 

1 hour ago, STK112 said:

And fire could make enemy panic and shoot randomly everywhere, toxic could make enemy dizzy and miss there shot. Maybe something else for blast, viral, gas, corrosive, radiation ....

I like the idea of "stronger" proc if 100%+.

1 hour ago, STK112 said:

 

You are not wrong, but i still like status to have a more damage focus if you want it to.

But I don't like the idea of giving proc more damage. crit for damage, proc for utility.

[RadioLarity]

I simply don't think that the "red procs" should be just simply a stronger version of original proc bcs it's just laziness on the design level.
They should give something different that goes along their original line.
Like, why would you want Fire proc to just deal more damage if you can proc it a second time?
I simply hope they do it with heart and thinking like for example "Fire proc already deals damage, what else damage does? Fire spreads! So let's make it leave a mark on ground that procs regular fire effect to enemies.

[AlphaPHENIX]

24 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Let's worry about how BELOW 100% and damage as a whole will work before worrying about that yeah?

Status in it's current iteration is... bad. I don't wanna say that- because I love it- but it's the truth.

We don't need status 2.0. We need damage 3.0- with status 2.0 being a side effect.

My personal thoughts are as follows. Short and simple version:

• Elements no longer deal damage (for the love of god... read through to the end before getting your pitchforks)
• IPS now have INNATE effects. Think "100%" status chance on them 100% of the time. Eg. Impact has a 100% chance to have a 30% chance to lightly stagger and 20% chance to heavily stagger an enemy (sounds redundant but it's a balance thing- the point is it's NOT tied to status chance anymore, it's just innate).or instead impact adds "stacks" to an enemy on each shot that will stagger an enemy once it hits a certain point. Think poise from dark souls- if you know what that is. Slash would gain the ability to dismember LIVING enemies- using the previously mentioned stacks mechanic. Dismemberment would affect enemy movement, attacks, or simply lop off their head for a kill. Removal of two limbs could also qualify for a kill. A limiter of "enemy must be below 50/75% health to achieve a kill using slash damage stacks. Puncture could create weak spots and have a % armor ignore. For weak points- think invisible (or the visual of holes in armor) versions of sonar- only much weaker, much smaller, and permanent. Puncture could also need you to get "stacks" on a certain area of an enemy to create these weak spots or just have a % chance.
• Damage multipliers (eg how heat is better against flesh) is now limited strictly to IPS damage. Elements no longer carry any multipliers (SERIOUSLY. PUT. DOWN. THE TORCH. Admittedly this one is a big maybe even in my own book. Just hear the rest out).
• Impact= LARGE bonus against shielding and machines/robotics. Moderate buff against flesh. Small buff against armor.
• Puncture = Moderate bonus against armor. Small bonus against shielding and machines/robotics. No bonus against flesh.
• Slash = LARGE bonus against flesh. Moderately weak against armor, machines/robotics. No bonus/negatives against shielding.
• Armor types are merged- no need for two different kinds in the new system.
• (Enemy) armor now degrades with all attacks in the location (torso/Larm/Rarm/Lleg/Rleg/head) you attack while using impact/slash. Degredation is slow and weak- but reduces the effectiveness of armor. Impact's degredation is more effective.
• Elements are now the ONLY thing affected by status chance (this means no more competing for IPS and being unreliable).
• Elements' status procs are reworked to be more... useful... practical. A COUPLE examples below, but it's only the tip of the iceberg- many need changes:
• Magnetic proc is now an AoE that works similar to an EMP. Enemies in range of the proc'd enemy lose 75% of their current shields. If shields are below 50% already, they are completely wiped. Enemy robotics within range either have their accuracy/vision drastically reduced or are completely "disabled" for a period- depending on the range from the origin of the proc. Cameras are simply disabled for a period. Laser grids and alarm consoles caught in range are also temporarily disabled.
• Fire and toxin proc will now spread between enemies that make contact with others (also viral proc will spread to contacted enemies that have had a limb dismembered).
• Ice procs can stack up and can freeze an enemy firmly in place for a few seconds.
• Radiation procs now cause the proc'd enemy to deal weak aoe damage in range for several seconds, on top of the original effect.
• Gas procs now create a small cloud that lingers in the area and deals damage to those inside, on top of the original effect.
• Base damage mods are removed- weapon effectiveness that would be lost by this change will either be dealt with through weapon-level=damage-increase suggestion that's been thrown around, or simply made not an issue by rebalancing based around this fact (it's not that hard when everything's being rebalanced)
• Mods are added that convert a % of total weapon damage to a specific IPS type.
• All PURE element mods are modified to add a SMALL amount of each IPS damage type. NOTE: This does NOT mean dualstat (+element,+status) mods.

Now the multiple points of these suggestions for status (and damage as a whole) are to make the system simpler, more reliable overall (less layers of RNG), and make it more beneficial to thinking while playing- where you shoot a target, how you can handle them. Weapons should affect playstyle past just "sniper for VIP targets, assault rifle for crowds, shotgun when close. Modding shouldn't just buff up their damage and do mild status effects; it should drastically affect the playstyle of the weapon. Open possibilities. Cover the weapons' weaknesses or play off and compliment the weapons' strengths.

I am also under the strong belief that the crit system should be reworked and altered in it's own way to promote skill in aiming for "weak spots" such as the head or vital organs or robotic chips etc etc- either to boost crit chance/damage overall, or for those special areas to be NECESSARY to hit in order for the chance to gain a critical hit. This is not just to promote skillful play rather than just spraying and praying- but also to help balance out the sheer power the damage crits can bring does. A spray and pray gun looses effectiveness if it's not controlled well. A single fire weapon like snipers loose effectiveness if they're not handled properly as well. Proper use of your weapon would become important. I do however understand and have considered this could be an issue with melee weapons- which the OP mod blood rush aside (more like included. That mod is a problem) are already not in the best place. Perhaps we're in need of melee 3.0 as well but that's another issue. For now the focus should be on how damage as a whole- and the systems that compliment it- should be the focus.

Considering the power the new status effects would provide, and the already overwhelming power of crits (rebalancing can ofc be taken into account) I do not believe their should be benefits to going past 100% for either status or crit chance. It's just plain unnecessary. Does that make things a bit boring maybe? Perhaps, at least for some people. But "super cool stuff that is heavily reliant on RNG and is therefore not reliable" cannot ever compare to "not that exciting, but reliable, effective, and overall interesting and solid- and most importantly balanced". It just can't.

 

That ended up a lot longer than I thought it would. Maybe I should have posted it in it's own thread, but it's on topic and not even CLOSE to my full thoughts so I guess I'll just post it here anyways.

Interesting...risky, but interesting.

[Lijka]

It's hard to suggest anything, knowing that damage overhaul is in process, albeit slow.

[Foefaller]

1 hour ago, Madway7 said:

So far I hear crits are more viable in the beginning, but status offers way more utility end game, mainly the combo elements like corrosive, viral and magnetic.

 

My experience has been it depends. Radiation porcs and the like do help immensely, but killing things ASAP with high-crit weapons is still superior if you have to make the choice. It's kinda like that "better feared than loved" line from The Prince; Ideally you have both, but if you have to choose, crits win nearly all the time.

Also, most of the more useful endgame status procs (like radiation or viral) have a warframe ability or augment that can fire it off with 100% success rate, like Irradiated Disarm for Loki or Spore for Saryn, respectively.

[RadioLarity]

8 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

My experience has been it depends. Radiation porcs and the like do help immensely, but killing things ASAP with high-crit weapons is still superior if you have to make the choice. It's kinda like that "better feared than loved" line from The Prince; Ideally you have both, but if you have to choose, crits win nearly all the time.

Also, most of the more useful endgame status procs (like radiation or viral) have a warframe ability or augment that can fire it off with 100% success rate, like Irradiated Disarm for Loki or Spore for Saryn, respectively.

It's a quote from Machiavelli

[Foefaller]

Just now, RadioLarity said:

It's a quote from Machiavelli

Yes, and The Prince is the book he wrote.

I guess I should have put it as The Prince. Ironically enough I though someone might thing I was talking about the late great musician (who was simple Prince, not The Prince) instead.

[Dekallis]

......*sigh*

 

 

Just give status effects intensity levels. Proc'ing status on an enemy that's already proc'd bumps it up to the next intensity level.Status chance over 100 would then give you a chance to jump directly to tier 2 effects instead of proc'ing tier 1 and moving up to tier 2.

Tier 1 would be the current status effects

Tier 2: would improve the status damage or duration

Tier 3: Would add some potent extra effect to the status

Examples:
 

Fire: Tier 1 as is Tier 2: Engulf the enemy in flame increasing the number of damage ticks per second, Tier 3: A small nova triggers dealing damage based on the dot damage and Igniting other nearby enemies but extinguishing the flames on the source enemy

Toxin: Tier 2: a percentage of the affected targets  max hp is added to the dot Tier 3:Enemy will begin emitting a toxic cloud similar to that of toxic ancients poisoning other nearby enemies.

 Viral: Tier 2: Enemy damage resistances are also halved Tier 3: Enemy damage dealt is also halved.

Gas: Tier 2: Duration and size of the gas cloud increases Tier 3: Enemies become delerious and behave erraticly

Radiation: Tier 2: Radiation burns away the victim dealing % HP damage over time Tier 3: Enemy becomes radioactive leaving a damaging radiation field around it's corpse.

Electric: Tier 2: A larger % of damage is transmitted to adjacent enemies and the radius is increased Tier 3: A stunning DoT is inflicted holding the enemy in place for it's duration.

Magnetic: Tier 2: Instantly pop shields in an EMP like burst Tier3: temporarily disable enemy abilities 

Blast Tier 2:Ragdoll effect Tier3: Enemy remains on the ground for several seconds before attempting to recover.

Slash Tier 2: Bleeding enemies take increased physical damage  Tier 3: Bleeding saps a percentage of current HP ignoring damage resistance.

Puncture: Tier 2: Enemy resistances are lowered by 20% while punctured Tier 3: projectiles punch through this enemy without detracting from punchthrough strength.

Impact: Tier2: Deal bonus damage to enemies based on their armor strength, higher armor=more bonus damage. Armor does not mitigate this damage. Tier 3:Shatter a portion of enemy armor permanently lowering their armor and dealing bonus damage based on the amount of armor lost.

[CrudShuzKong]

have a chance to proc 2 status effects at the same hit of course.

[Tymerc]

Doesn't have to be anything spectacular. Maybe a slight increase in it's effects. Slash crits are already broken, so there is no reason whatsoever to touch them.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

First they should probably boost every weapons status chance a little, considering most weapons waste 2 slots on even getting to 50% or less. Hell, removing the power creep on weapons is more important than adding more

[CarrotSalad]

• magnetic lure all bullets over a 0.5seconds in a 5 metre range to the proc point.
• Corrosive will make weapons/limbs disintegrate
• toxin will cause enemies to shoot randomly in any direction
• radiation will mutate parts of enemies bodies or even just hyper inflate the body size
• blast will ragdoll the target into a deadly projectile for any enemies in its path (the blast will send them upwards)
• frost will freeze the target as a statue or just freeze thier gun so they cant fire
• heat will cause target to roll on the ground
• electric will cause thier ammo to explode in all directions turning the targets gun into a little bag of fireworks.
• Viral enemies will throw up (get sick, vomit for a short period of time)

Edited July 10, 2016 by CarrotSalad

[Aquasurge]

i think you'll like this: