Why do all the archwing weapons suck SO much?

[Futurehero]

I just built the newest archwing weapon, the Cyngas, and surprise surprise, it's a reskinned Burston. 

Seriously, why is all the archwing gear so underwhelming and un-imaginative?

Most of the archguns are just reskins of existing WF weapons : 

The Imperator is a Braton

The Cyngas is a Burston

The Phaedra is a Soma (without the stats to back it up)

The Corvas is a Drakgoon (without the ricochet, the whole point of the Drakgoon)

The Velocitus is a Lanka (without a scope)

The Dual Decurions are an AkMagnus.

Really , the only interesting weapons are the Fluctus and the Grattler. But since the Fluctus is basically just Excal's Exalted Blade on a gun, we're left with the Grattler.

WHY?!   Wasn't one of the pointsof Archwing the fact that your guns link up to your archwing's power supply, allowing for beefier weaponry? Also, it's a space shooter, and almost all the guns are low-powered, bullet hoses.  Why don't we get things like a space version of the Dual Cestra mounted on the wings? Or a cluster rocket launcher like Grineer Hellions have?  Or a beam weapon ?  

That isn't even mentioning Arch-melee, which is even worse. There's no combos, no stances, no different ranges for different weapons, no nothing. You just mash attack and kill enemies with your cheap lock on attacks. Other than the model and numbers behind them, all AW melee is the same. And since the weapon model doesn't matter (because of the lack of combos), pretty much everyone uses the Centaur because crits4days.  

Question:  Why don't ALL archwing melee weapons get the equivalent of Excal's Exalted Blade, so they all shoot out short ranged waves, blasts. Much more visually interesting, you actually have to fight in melee now, and it could be a good point to differentiate weapons between each other.

 

Honestly, I would've put up with the grind of AW, the low drop rates of weapon parts, the controls whatever, if the gear you get would be interesting. But from what I've seen since its launch, AW gear is a tacked on afterthought..... 

#Makeawweaponsthatdontsuck

 

 

[-N7-Leonhart]

You have no idea what you are saying.

Other than the OPFluctus, this is the strongest, or at least side by side with the next strongest Archwing primary. And I know, because I have used them all.

Initially, I just wanted to test it, and put no Catalyst on it. So I just had 2 elementals to make Corrosive damage (since everything there has Ferrite armor). Just 2 mods, at it was obliterating everything on Caelus (Uranus Interception). After I made a full build, I am not even sure if Fluctus can maintain it's status as Number 1 Archwing primary.

What more do you want than one hitting every normal enemy with a single burst and 2-hitting tough enemies like Ogma?

Edited July 17, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[Cray]

I happen to love the Cyngas. Good damage, handles well, and fun to use. The same goes for the Grattler, provided you're up close. The Fluctus works really well with the Trenchrun tileset, and the Imperator fills in the gaps.

 

It helps if one actually likes Archwing.

[Futurehero]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

You have no idea what you are saying.

Other than the OPFluctus, this is the strongest, or at least side by side with the next strongest Archwing primary. And I know, because I have used them all.

Initially, I just wanted to test it, and put no Catalyst on it. So I just had 2 elementals to make Corrosive damage (since everything there has Ferrite armor). Just 2 mods, at it was obliterating everything on Caelus (Uranus Interception). After I made a full build, I am not even sure if Fluctus can maintain it's status as Number 1 Archwing primary.

What more do you want than one hitting every normal enemy with a single burst and 2-hitting tough enemies like Ogma?

Way to completely miss the point of the post, though....

I'm not arguing over stats, but over the incredibly mediocre design of these weapons.

You have this new mode , in space, that allows for much stronger weaponry , and they pump out re-skin after re-skin, with no interesting ideas that take advantage of the bigger range of movement or faster speed ?

Let me ask you another way:

Doesn't it BOTHER you that one of the strongest AW weapons is a re-skin of a re-skin of a f*cking Braton?

 

[AvianBoombox]

Velocitus can 3-4 shot jordas if built right

[GinKenshin]

you're talking like enemies are actually 'hard' to kill in AW....   :P 

if there's no creativity, then I kinda agree, but don't expect too much in AW, it looks like all the creativity DE has is channeled into normal combat. we're lucky if we get 2-4 AW weapons a year >.> 

and do you really want to do 'combos' in space? everything dies in 1 hit mate....stances would be waaay too much. and the EB idea for melees is too OP, no need for that 


and basically what you're saying is that every auto rifle with balanced stats is a braton, and every auto rifle with good crit chance is a soma....then why the hell do we have other weapons? XD 

and since I'm a beam weapon fanatic, I'm still waiting on a beam weapon in AW >.> 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Futurehero said:

Way to completely miss the point of the post, though....

I'm not arguing over stats, but over the incredibly mediocre design of these weapons.

You have this new mode , in space, that allows for much stronger weaponry , and they pump out re-skin after re-skin, with no interesting ideas that take advantage of the bigger range of movement or faster speed ?

Let me ask you another way:

Doesn't it BOTHER you that one of the strongest AW weapons is a re-skin of a re-skin of a f*cking Braton?

 

Ah, so you meant about design? It's a burst weapon, true, but the design is nothing like any normal weapon, including the Burston. I don't have a prolem with it, we never had a burst Archwing weapon before, and this one also sounds sexy.

When they introduced the Imperator as the first Archwing weapon, why didn't you said then "Ah, it's an automatic weapon, they are not original".

It's not surprising that the mechanics are similar, there is only so many 'fresh' ideas they can come with for weapons. For example, even Excalibur's 4th was inspired by Fluctus itself. Why didn't you said then "Excalibur's 4th sucks so much"? 

[SneakyBeakyIvarr]

There's only so many different weapon designs.

Going by your logic the Soma is a reskinned Braton because they're both automatic

The Lanka is a reskin of any of the bows because they charge up before shooting.

The Marelok is a reskinned Lato because they're both hitscan and semiauto

 

Sure we could use more weapons in AW, but it's not easy coming up with whole new types of weapons that won't be confusing and/or difficult to use.

Also I'm pretty sure if they introduced new types of weapons to AW people would want it in normal combat then the whole cycle of "unoriginality" continues.

[Futurehero]

5 minutes ago, Kenshin98 said:

you're talking like enemies are actually 'hard' to kill in AW....   :P 

if there's no creativity, then I kinda agree, but don't expect too much in AW, it looks like all the creativity DE has is channeled into normal combat. we're lucky if we get 2-4 AW weapons a year >.> 

and do you really want to do 'combos' in space? everything dies in 1 hit mate....stances would be waaay too much. and the EB idea for melees is too OP, no need for that 


and basically what you're saying is that every auto rifle with balanced stats is a braton, and every auto rifle with good crit chance is a soma....then why the hell do we have other weapons? XD 

and since I'm a beam weapon fanatic, I'm still waiting on a beam weapon in AW >.> 

 

Do you really want AW melee combat to be  "spam your auto-lock attack while you nauseatingly bump against enemies until they die , forever?"

 

[Cray]

11 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

Doesn't it BOTHER you that one of the strongest AW weapons is a re-skin of a re-skin of a f*cking Braton?

Every burst-fire rifle is a "re-skin of the Burston".

Every friggin' assault rifle is a "re-skin of the Braton".

Every crit assault rifle is a re-skin of the Soma.

Every bow is a re-skin of the Paris.

Every sword is a re-skin of the Skana.

Every-- The list goes on. There's a limit to how unique you can make a long, hollow pole that fires pieces of metal out of one end, or a thin piece of steel with a sharp edge. Sooner or later, you're recycling the mechanics, and not always by choice.

 

You just have to accept that most of the weapons in the game behave in a similar way to other weapons of the same type. But guess what? That's good, because consistency. If I had to learn how to handle 200 unique weapon mechanics, I'd probably give up before too long.

 

Is it not enough that every weapon has a unique appearance and sound?

Edited July 17, 2016 by DeltaPhantom

[TaylorsContraction]

16 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

You have no idea what you are saying.

Other than the OPFluctus, this is the strongest, or at least side by side with the next strongest Archwing primary. And I know, because I have used them all.

Initially, I just wanted to test it, and put no Catalyst on it. So I just had 2 elementals to make Corrosive damage (since everything there has Ferrite armor). Just 2 mods, at it was obliterating everything on Caelus (Uranus Interception). After I made a full build, I am not even sure if Fluctus can maintain it's status as Number 1 Archwing primary.

What more do you want than one hitting every normal enemy with a single burst and 2-hitting tough enemies like Ogma?

I think it is you who has no idea what you're saying because you didn't read the post at all. Op is talking about how lame aw weapons are in design not strength.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, TaylorsContraction said:

I think it is you who has no idea what you're saying because you didn't read the post at all. Op is talking about how lame aw weapons are in design not strength.

Yeah, added a reply regarding that as well.

Ah, also, how does it look to you from the title? I guess that's what one gets if he makes clickbait titles without a genuine reason.

[Futurehero]

6 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

Every burst-fire rifle is a "reskin of the Burston".

Every friggin' assault rifle is "a reskin of the Braton".

Every crit assault rifle is a reskin of the Soma.

Every bow is a reskin of the Paris.

Every sword is a reskin of the Skana.

Every-- The list goes on. There's a limit to how unique you can make a long, hollow pole that fires pieces of metal out of one end, or a thin piece of steel with a sharp edge. Sooner or later, you're recycling the mechanics, and not by choice.

 

You just have to accept that most of the weapons in the game behave in a similar way to other weapons of the same type. But guess what? That's good, because consistency. If I had to learn how to handle 200 unique weapon mechanics, I'd probably give up before too long.

 

Is it not enough that every weapon has a unique appearance and sound?

If this was just standard WF combat we're talking about, sure, you're right. But Archwing is SUPPOSED to have bigger, badder weapons.

Want an auto-rifle? Sure.. Make it a minigun. Like an actual 6 rotating barrel minigun.  We don't have those in regular WF.

Want a burst fire rifle? Make a 3-round burst auto-cannon with exploding shells. 

Don't make a cheap re-skin of a weapon used in on-foot combat...

 

2 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Yeah, added a reply regarding that as well.

Ah, also, how does it look to you from the title? I guess that's what one gets if he makes clickbait titles without a genuine reason.

How about no?

I said they suck, explained WHY they suck in the post, which you didn't bother to read.....

You're the impatient, stat-obsessed min-maxer here, not me making click-bait topics.

Guess DE could just release Vandal/Wraith variants of all weapons in the game from now on and you'd be happy, am I right?

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Futurehero

[Gelkor]

Sure, some of the weapons are mid-tier, but perfectly potent with enough forma, and have the advantage of better sustained fire damage. The difference between the mid-tier weapons and the higher tier Arch Weapons is the higher tier ones have more damage to shot ratio and a much smaller clip. Except for Velocitus, which has super high clip, and the highest damage per shot, and probably 2nd or 3rd highest DPS. It's a super powered space bow (charge up time, travel time). The Fluctus, which looks like a bow, came before Exalted Blade, so EB is a copy of it, not the other way around. And the Grattler, well:

So, yeah, there are about 3/4 great weapons and a bunch of middling ones, but with the way Archwing combat is, the difference between all of them is completely pointless because everything is so weak, the only time the real difference shines is on things with suuuuuper high health like Jordas's backside, otherwise, it doesn't even matter, all other AW enemies are pushovers.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Gelkor

[DrBorris]

Okay, but don't we need to have all of those classes of weapons? Every Archwing weapon is its own class of weapon, we got our accurate assault rifle, more spray assault rifle, burst rifle and shotgun. There is nothing wrong with having all of these weapons, they are their own niche and I would argue it is MUCH more important to get the basics for weapons down first before you get too crazy.

And as far as Fluctus and Grattler go, these two already are your bad-@ss weapons. Fluctus actually came before EB I believe, and Grattler is... Grattler.

 

Could there be some more interesting weapons? Sure, but the basics are just as if not more important.

(Melee weapons could use a bit more differentiation however, I think there was a recent post about reworking them into three sub types recently that sounded pretty interesting.)

Edited July 17, 2016 by DrBorris

[-Apple-Pie-]

Combining with The topic title, and

Quote

The Velocitus is a Lanka (without a scope)

You state, that Lanka sucks right? And Soma? The only answer I have for You my friend, is Git Gud. The weapons are well designed, with a great effort put in designing, modelling, developing stats and more. I dont see the point of this thread, You complain about weapon design, Your topic title is misleading, and your complaints are nonsense. If You dont like Archwing missions, dont play them!

[TaylorsContraction]

1 minute ago, mobilehacker said:

Combining with The topic title, and

You state, that Lanka sucks right? And Soma? The only answer I have for You my friend, is Git Gud. The weapons are well designed, with a great effort put in designing, modelling, developing stats and more. I dont see the point of this thread, You complain about weapon design, Your topic title is misleading, and your complaints are nonsense. If You dont like Archwing missions, dont play them!

What are you even reading?

[-Apple-Pie-]

1 minute ago, TaylorsContraction said:

What are you even reading?

Im reading the topic my friend.

[ligonare]

The cyngas is great. My only gripe is the mag size: 30 rnds. If they increase that to 60, it would be my go-to weapon.

[Doxorn]

This topic makes no sense at all. OP don't even wrote down his toughts properly. Thus making this confusion.

To OP: Collect your toughts, organize them. Then write it down properly. Your title and your description and what you wrote afterwards are 3 different things.

 

PS: don't forget to highlight key toughts via Bold, Italic or Underline options. It makes your post look better to the eyes (just don't overdo it).

[Cray]

17 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

I said they suck, explained WHY they suck in the post, which you didn't bother to read.....

Because saying something sucks is always effective at getting the team to get off their apparently lazy posteriors and cook up something new and unique to make you happy.

 

17 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

You're the impatient, stat-obsessed min-maxer here, not me making click-bait topics.

Guess DE could just release Vandal/Wraith variants of all weapons in the game from now on and you'd be happy, am I right?

And this invalidates his opinion, how?

 

Seriously, this thread achieves nothing, other than to give us reasons to facepalm in your general direction.

[DeccanTraps]

No I get his point.
Where is the scaled up beam-lance weapon that draws a line of murder across the gulf of space?
Where is the Macros style missile launcher that can be charged to unleash a bewildering hail of munitions?

Why do we have so many solid projectile kinetic kill weapons?

[--F--NerevarCM]

12 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

Because saying something sucks is always effective at getting the team to get off their apparently lazy posteriors and cook up something new and unique to make you happy.

 

And this invalidates his opinion, how?

 

Seriously, this thread achieves nothing, other than to give us reasons to facepalm in your general direction.

OP is the king of facepalms. I think he wanders the forums making bait threads.

This one is gold

[Vol4ica_]

If you don't think than designing is an easy job than there is no point in starting this thread.
If you think it is so easy to make a good design of archwing weapon, then try to do it by yourself. Just put yourself in the place of DE - everybody complaining about how their content looks but nobody can show what exactly they want. There is no way out of this situation.
In my opinion, DE designers created a lot of good stuff (except some helmets). Just look at tigris prime before you complain again. And let's don't forget that it is really hard to make a 300th weapon absolutely avoiding repetition.

Edit:
Please show me the similarity because I don't get it.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Vol4ica_

[GinKenshin]

1 hour ago, Futurehero said:

 

Do you really want AW melee combat to be  "spam your auto-lock attack while you nauseatingly bump against enemies until they die , forever?"

 

lol, it's what 90% of the normal melee combat is.....