Why do we have to kill?

[Yoruno]

Ya know, Zanuka is what our catdog abominations would be if operators had slightest knowledge of genetic engineering.
....
End it's suffering.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Yoruno
his?her?it?

[Archeyef]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I found the Trinity player.

 

Excuse me, sir! I take exception to this, and on behalf of my fellow Trinitards, I would like to say: Your face.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Alad V though, there is no forgiveness for him and what he did.  The tranference makes it hurt.  Tenno felt the dismemberment of their frames as if it happened to them and if they were still on Lua (as fits with release order of Events and current Starchart progression) then they will have the psychological effects too.  Being captured, tortured and stripped of your power against your will is not a fun experience to live through. 

Do you mean nullifiers?

Back on topic, it's a fitting end for a child that has repeatedly committed not one, but several genocidal acts, murdering anyone they disagree with, for the sake of "maintaining the balance" at the cost of billions of lives. And if you're trying to say "it doesn't matter because it's war and Grineer are Nazis and Corpus are greedy merchants", then it doesn't really matter if only one of our kin suffer, because "it's war". If no one's really "good" in this universe, then it would be pretty pointless to make more enemies than allies.

[Brachion]

The Tenno are pretty clearly good; we don't conquer anyone and we protect the innocent. Even back in the Orokin days, the Tenno primarily fought the Sentients, not the Orokin's other enemies. Based on certain lines in The Second Dream and the Inaros quest, we even know that the Tenno sometimes put protecting people above their duty to the Orokin. People really want this game to have some kind of edgy, "no one is actually good" situation going on, but the fact of the matter is that we're blatantly the good guys in this scenario.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Brachion

[CTanGod]

Because we are the sons and daughters of DOOM Guy..... and because loot.... yeah loot!

[Katinka]

9 minutes ago, Madho said:

Back on topic, it's a fitting end for a child that has repeatedly committed not one, but several genocidal acts, murdering anyone they disagree with, for the sake of "maintaining the balance" at the cost of billions of lives. And if you're trying to say "it doesn't matter because it's war and Grineer are Nazis and Corpus are greedy merchants", then it doesn't really matter if only one of our kin suffer, because "it's war". If no one's really "good" in this universe, then it would be pretty pointless to make more enemies than allies.

I'm not trying to say it doesn't matter because they are Grineer or Corpus.  In fact, if you read the part of my post before the bit you quoted you'd see that I have spared some Grineer and Corpus and that I consider Alad V an exception for whom there can be no forgiveness.  There is a HUGE difference between killing someone quickly in battle and prolonged tortured.  That's why in the real world we have laws against weapons that intentionally permenantly cripple, blind or sterilise enemies with their use being considered war crimes while standard shoot-to-kill weapons are an accepted part of warfare.  Some of the Tenno weaponry even has descriptions saying it was used because it was considered a more humane method of killing, showing that they do consider such things.  That is why I rated Alad V more of a monster than Hunhow.  Hunhow's plan was simple, infiltrate and defeat.  Alad V wanted to torture and experiment in a prolonged and cold-hearted way.  Hunhow is just an enemy commander while Alad is a psycho who has betrayed everyone he has ever allied with because he is completely self centred and incapable of empathy.

[Arxfiend]

1 hour ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Well, looks like another one has free thought boys, brb calling space mom to "fix" the situation.

I'll get the Tonkor.

[cghawk]

1 hour ago, Bibliothekar said:

Apart from Alad V, the general question still is worth asking. Killing infested I can understand, that's pest control. But I haven't quite understood what's so bad about your everyday Corpus crewman that he deserves death. Lotus tells us that we're the good guys, and yet we behave like space-Daesh ...

because we get loot, screw balance of the universe, you got loot? we kill the bastards.

 

'the grineer are trying to take over the universe they have to be sto-oh wait they offer 50k credits ok forget the grineer lets kill the corpus''

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Katinka said:

I have spared some Grineer and Corpus and that I consider Alad V an exception for whom there can be no forgiveness. 

Selective killing. Real moral. You decide who lives and dies, just like everyone else. If anything, we've slaughtered far more enemies than they ever did vice versa. A single person gone insane and not killed, mind you, is enough to let us hate the one guy that did this, with utter disregard of the billions of lives we've perished.

19 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Some of the Tenno weaponry even has descriptions saying it was used because it was considered a more humane method of killing, showing that they do consider such things.  That is why I rated Alad V more of a monster than Hunhow.  Hunhow's plan was simple, infiltrate and defeat.  Alad V wanted to torture and experiment in a prolonged and cold-hearted way.

So does anyone who wields Nyx, Saryn, Nova, Ember, or basically anyone who built weapons with slash, fire or toxin procs. Slow deaths with torturing.

But then again... was killing ever "humane"?

35 minutes ago, Brachion said:

The Tenno are pretty clearly good

The above reasons are why I reject this philosophy.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Guest

[Domaik]

2 hours ago, Vol4ica_ said:

Recently went on mission against Alad and Zanuka to take some screensots for Synergy. I took tanky Valkyr to be able not to hurry to kill and just walk around without taking damage. And when I faced those two I just realised that I... don't want to kill them at all. I would feel sorry for doing this.

Why do I have to kill Zanuka? He (she?) is just a good playful doggy doing his masters orders. Zanuka doesn't want to kill us by him(her)self. And Alad.. Just look at him with his shields off. Running around. Is'nt going to hurt us, only blinding from time to time. Because he is scared. Because we killed his doggy. Totally defenceless and alone, just trying to escape...

Yes, he did some bad things before, but everybody deserves to be given second chance, right?

Really want them both as my friends, don't want to continue this useless war anymore :c

Can't tell if you're serious or joking.

 

If you are serious then you really need a good lesson on warframe history to know what those 2 really are and have done. I really don't feel like writing a whole message explaining it and all the details. But there is a reason for what we do in WF. I'm sure someone else has already explained.

 

If you are joking then, well done, quality Sh t  post...

Edited July 25, 2016 by Domaik

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, FrackingBiscuit said:

Remember that time he took an Excalibur and hacked off his arms and legs and beheaded him and sold the pieces of his dismembered corpse to the highest bidder after picking out which pieces he wanted to add to his Zanuka?

Remember how Zanuka is built out of Warframe remains?

Death is the only option.

Remember how, back then.............................................................................................................................

 

<<<<<<<<MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD for SECOND DREAM: HIGHLIGHT TO READ BETWEEN BRACKETS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

......We thought there was actually something ALIVE in the frame?

 

Salad basically dismantled captured enemy tech. Something anyone would do. 

Besides....wouldnt Lotus want to pick his brain? Find out how much he knows? And imagine the Robo-Kubrow we could make if we captured Zanuka, as opposed to destroying it...

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<END SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I agree, OP. We should be able to capture these two once their shields are down. Very good thought.

Edited July 25, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[Jangkrik]

Salad B fan here (even though I love profit more than him). Don't worry, you don't really kill him (spoiler: he survives til now).

You only smack him for being a naughty little boy and destroy his Zanuka. Don't hesitate beating him up cause he deserve it for using Warframes to make Zanuka.

[Katinka]

5 minutes ago, Madho said:

Selective killing. Real moral. You decide who lives and dies, just like everyone else. If anything, we've slaughtered far more enemies than they ever did vice versa. A single person gone insane and not killed, mind you, is enough to let us hate the one guy that did this, with utter disregard of the billions of lives we've perished.

The people killed by Tenno were in battle.  They were armed soldiers capable of fighting back.  What Alad V did to Valkyr was capture her while asleep (we were told Alad V had warframe cryopods, so still in cryosleep), restrain her and conduct torturous experiments.  If you don't see a difference between these situations then I suggest you redirect your efforts to the far more serious topic of international law and the Geneva Convention which states that:

Quote

 

Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

- violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

 

Note that there is a distinction that the mutilation, cruel treatment and torture mentioned in this article of the convention is specifically in reference to persons not taking part in hostilities including those held in detention.  What Alad V did would be considered by modern standard a 'grave breach' and a serious war crime.  If you really can't see the difference between that and Tenno killing in open combat then you should be campaigning for changes to be made to our international laws as the real world does not fit your moral judgement.  Obviously I don't expect the Geneva Convention to be in effect in the Warframe universe but I think we can use it a reasonable measure of what is considered morally right and wrong in the modern world, as agreed by the international community, and thus I feel just in my judgement of Alad V to be a horrific monster.

23 minutes ago, Madho said:

So does anyone who wields Nyx, Saryn, Nova, or basically anyone who built weapons with slash, fire or toxin procs. Slow deaths with torturing.

But then again... was killing ever "humane"?

Nice selective reading, you missed where I said:

36 minutes ago, Katinka said:

 laws against weapons that intentionally permenantly cripple, blind or sterilise enemies

Added emphasis there.  Those frames don't have permenant effects on the enemy other than death.  Plus it's done in the field of battle which I've already mentioned is a different matter to what is done to captives that you have abducted and restrained in their sleep.

Killing can be humane.  That's why we have regulations regarding the treatment of farm animals to ensure they are treated humanely up to the point they are killed as quickly and painlessly as possible and before you say it, no, I am not comparing the Corpus or Grineer to farm animals.  I am simply pointing out that there are situations in which the cessation of life in one manner is considered more humane and thus preferable than another, in modern society.  To the Tenno the use of the Ether sword was considered a humane method of ending life, as per it's description.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Katinka said:

What Alad V did to Valkyr was capture her while asleep (we were told Alad V had warframe cryopods, so still in cryosleep), restrain her and conduct torturous experiments.

A captive that possess powers which could certainly murder galleons of Corpus troops when unleashed. Constraining her was a security measure. Plus, if we were to encounter an alien attack, of course we would abduct some aliens and experiment on them in order to find out what weaponry can kill them effectively and what they can resist, in order to gain a tactical advantage. Building Zanuka was a perfectly reasonable move by Alad, seeing how immensely powerful our warframes are.

40 minutes ago, Katinka said:

 Those frames don't have permenant effects on the enemy other than death.

Soliders in real life regret their actions and often suffer from extreme post trauma stress disorder. With Nyx, this affects enemies even more so when they slaughtered their own brothers without a hint of remorse for an entire minute, groups of them dying from the blasts created by their own Ogris rockets. Plus, death is already enough of a permanent effect.

 

40 minutes ago, Katinka said:

they are killed as quickly and painlessly as possible

To the Tenno the use of the Ether sword was considered a humane method of ending life, as per it's description.

Would that un-murder the animal? No. Does the person killing the animal feel better doing so? Yes.

Remember, history is written by the victors. What may seem humane to one may seem differently in the eyes of another. The Ether sword was considered humane to the Tenno, but for other factions it could spill your guts out with a mere slash. There is hardly anything "humane" when killing.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Guest

[Deatherage_]

2 hours ago, Kippenoma2000 said:

He gave us the latron, not the karak

karak wraith was the tubemen of regor event

 

it was moldy Salad V vs. the talking Void Key

 

why do you think i said in caps "Give unto the void"?

[Katinka]

12 minutes ago, Madho said:

A captive that possess powers which could certainly murder galleons of Corpus troops when unleashed. Constraining her was a security measure.

Restraining is fine.  Then going on to torture, mutilate and conduct biological experiments is not.

12 minutes ago, Madho said:

Plus, if we were to encounter an alien attack, of course we would abduct some aliens and experiment on them in order to find out what weaponry can kill them effectively and what they can resist, in order to gain a tactical advantage. Building Zanuka was a perfectly reasonable move by Alad, seeing how immensely powerful our warframes are.

It seems we'll have to agree to disagree on teh matter of live-testing weapons on prisoners of war but if you are ever in a position to make that decision I suggest you think very carefully before commiting a grave breach of the Geneva Convention that may backfire on you when the war is over.

15 minutes ago, Madho said:

Soliders in real life regret their actions and often suffer from extreme post trauma stress disorder. With Nyx, this affects enemies even more so when they slaughtered their own brothers without a hint of remorse for an entire minute, groups of them dying from the blasts created by their own Ogris rockets. Plus, death is already enough of a permanent effect.

Causing PTSD or death in battle does not equate to doing so to disarmed and restrained captives.

16 minutes ago, Madho said:

Would that un-murder the animal? No. Does the person killing the animal feel better doing so? Yes.

Remember, history is written by the victors. What may seem humane to one may seem differently in the eyes of another. The Ether sword was considered humane to the Tenno, but for other factions it could spill your guts out with a mere slash. There is hardly anything "humane" when killing.

So you agree that by using what the Tenno consider a humane weapon they are doing what they consider best and showing some measure of concern and empathy for their victims?  The method of execution was used because they felt good about killing in a way they considered more humane, thus they empathised with the victim.  Once again, Alad V is a psycho who has betrayed every ally he ever had and conducted horrific inhumane experiments on live captives.  He is a monster far worse than Hunhow, possibly only challenged by Ballas.

[Damuranashi]

3 hours ago, Vol4ica_ said:

Really want them both as my friends, don't want to continue this useless war anymore :c

AHAHAHAHA!

[Vol4ica_]

Whatewer you say.

I haven't seen any person killing Alad lots of times because he wanted to take revenge by himself. The only reason why we farm Alad is to collect Valkyr parts and neural sensors. You kill them for your profit the same as Alad destroyed warframes for his profit.

If you had really lost Excalibur because of him - all that you would do in this situation is go farming Ambulas to get one more...

Do-warframes-feel-pain-discussion is in another thread
 

[Laisha]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I found the Trinity player.

 

Nay, This is what a true Trinity player looks like:

[Evanescent]

*sighs*

[EmptyDevil]

3 hours ago, Belgard said:

You're only defending him because he looks CUTE :)

Alad... Cute???

Spoiler

 

 

[EmptyDevil]

32 minutes ago, Vol4ica_ said:

Whatewer you say.

I haven't seen any person killing Alad lots of times because he wanted to take revenge by himself. The only reason why we farm Alad is to collect Valkyr parts and neural sensors. You kill them for your profit the same as Alad destroyed warframes for his profit.

If you had really lost Excalibur because of him - all that you would do in this situation is go farming Ambulas to get one more...

Do-warframes-feel-pain-discussion is in another thread
 

I actually kill Alad for satisfaction too. If DE allowed us to spawn bosses in the Simulacrum, it would be an endless and permanent hell for Alad.

[Zyrgi]

4 hours ago, Vol4ica_ said:

Why do I have to kill Zanuka? He (she?) is just a good playful doggy doing his masters orders. Zanuka doesn't want to kill us by him(her)self. And Alad.. Just look at him with his shields off. Running around. Is'nt going to hurt us, only blinding from time to time. Because he is scared. Because we killed his doggy. Totally defenceless and alone, just trying to escape...

Yes, he did some bad things before, but everybody deserves to be given second chance, right?

Really want them both as my friends, don't want to continue this useless war anymore :c

Zanuka is a robot, next time you turn on your PC, feel some compassion for it, too and top telling it what to do by pushing its buttons.

Last time I checked Alad wasted his second chance with becoming infected with infestation, trolling you in second dream and extorting you for help with defeating the Acolytes. How many times are you willing to give, a person that constantly messes up, a second chance?

They can't be your friends because Zanuka is a subordinate robot of a corpus scammer that tries to manipulate you every time you encounter them.

[folklore504]

46 minutes ago, Zyrgi said:

Zanuka is a robot, next time you turn on your PC, feel some compassion for it, too and top telling it what to do by pushing its buttons.

Last time I checked Alad wasted his second chance with becoming infected with infestation, trolling you in second dream and extorting you for help with defeating the Acolytes. How many times are you willing to give, a person that constantly messes up, a second chance?

They can't be your friends because Zanuka is a subordinate robot of a corpus scammer that tries to manipulate you every time you encounter them.

Lets not forget that when he joined the infested, he actually enhanced and made them far more deadly with being able to take over MOAs and ospreys along with other machinery.  Than when he realized he screwed, up he begs tenno to help him make a cure which we did for some reason. 

Below not part of reply to quote. 

I can not kill Alad V enough times for the Zanuka project, even though I prefer the post corpus valkyr appearance to gersemi. 

I heard Genocide mentioned in the thread as a mark against the Tenno.  The Tenno at least as far as I know so far have never committed genocide in lore.  We killed off the Orokin elite, but the rest of the Orokin were not hunted down and killed.  Corpus crewman are killed in battle, but Tenno avoid killing civvies of the corpus.  Grineer are a weird one in the cloning factoring in, as it stands Tenno still have not systematically wiped out the grineer.  The infested are an exception as attempts by every faction have been made.  Unfortunately its impossible to ever completely wipe it out, and it would wipe out everyone else if allowed to. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by folklore504

[Toppien]

4 hours ago, catastrophy said:

The Lotus asked us kindly to do so. I couldn't refuse a kind request by the Lotus.

would you kindly kill the lotus for me?