Shield has become mostly a dump stat

[radthezero]

So I'm gonna be that guy.

On paper, Shield is good. It protects your frames before damage gets to their health. The biggest problem being, since Shields don't apply armor (as of update 12, which was eras ago, by the way). So they go down very fast. Which leaves you to your health, where armor stat can protect you. This mostly becomes a problem on the endgame, where you can potentially take humongous damage, or a slash or toxic proc can decimate your defenses with ease (and as much as they ignore your shields and go straight to your health, Toxin has some Armor mitigation, as some of you might've realized - try taking a Toxin proc with Zephyr and with Ash and see which will take more damage). Moreover, when something depletes your Shield, damage overflow makes so that your health takes the hit along with it - which can be very annoying if you're caught by, say, a Nullifier's snipe shot. Fast Deflection surely helps, but it ends up finding little space on most builds, since armor does a better job at protecting most frames, and those that can't count on it usually have some way to counterbalance such deficiency by avoiding damage.

As a consequence, most endgame builds use the Health + Armor combo, and the most squishy frames like Banshee or Nyx are rarely seen on any mission past level 50. While some like Mag can run Shields basically because she can replenish and Overshield easily, it's a niche thing. It would be nice if Armor were to be applied to Shields again, or if we were to take a less overpowered option, if damage overflow could be stopped (as in, when your shields reach zero, the damage is stopped and not appliend to your health). As it is right now, aside from a few niche builds, no one even cares about Shield as a mechanic, because it becomes rather useless after the enemies start doing a certain amount of damage.

[Nazrethim]

Or make Fast Deflection a built-in feature (like DE did with Conclave) and the mod removed. You could boost this passive shield regen even more with Fortitude.

[Gurpgork]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Or make Fast Deflection a built-in feature (like DE did with Conclave) and the mod removed. You could boost this passive shield regen even more with Fortitude.

Or make shields worthwhile on their own, buff inherent recharge rate, and leave Fast Deflection as a mod. If someone wants to sacrifice a mod slot or even two for greater shield regeneration, they should be allowed to do so. 

Edited July 28, 2016 by Gurpgork

[radthezero]

Agreed, but we'd need actual useful Shields before that.

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Or make shields worthwhile on their own, buff inherent recharge rate, and leave Fast Deflection as a mod. If someone wants to sacrifice a mod slot or even two for greater shield regeneration, they should be allowed to do so. 

 

3 minutes ago, radthezero said:

Agreed, but we'd need actual useful Shields before that.

True. Buff default Shield Recharge to Fast Deflection levels, but leave Fast Deflection for even more. Well, Shield gating is something we have been requesting since Sorties were implemented.

[atom]

12 minutes ago, radthezero said:

if damage overflow could be stopped (as in, when your shields reach zero, the damage is stopped and not appliend to your health).

this! needs to happen. it will alleviate much of the senseless 1shotting that goes on at higher levels. imho this is one of the biggest flaws this game has at this point

[radthezero]

Well, damage overflow IS quite bad if you are anywhere near a Bombard, a Napalm or a Nullifier. Shieldgating could at least mitigate that.

[AgentEntropy]

Banshee and Nyx not seen past level 50?

Dunno what you're talking about there.

Anyway yeah, we need more useful shields. Only frames worth using shield mods on are ones who have insignificant portions of health and can avoid most damage, like Ivara. It then only serves as a buffer for you if AoE happens to strike.

 

[DoomFruit]

Or stop bleed procs from activating if you have shields up, because the damn bullet never touched you in the first place.

[Tsunero]

I barely have any shields with Valkyr anyway so I treat it as a non-existent thing xD.

[FitzSimmons]

make shield have damage reduction when tenno have overshield

[Inarticulate]

Make Fast Deflection's effect built in and change Fast Deflection to apply a percentage of your armor to your shields (e.g. Rank 5 Fast Deflection applies 90% of your armor to your shields).

[Thural]

another thing, if damage overflows from your shields to your health, it can sometimes bypass armor, I've noticed this a lot when I get ONESHOT as Chroma with full vex armor and elemental ward at full health

[RealPandemonium]

Shields are still useful; nothing has changed about them, really.  The main thing that has changed is the advent of T4 and Sortie/Raid levels (70+) in regular gameplay.  Frame base stats were clearly not balanced for level 70+ enemies, and T4 missions have enemies that are level 40+ that deal 3x damage, which is similar to what level 90 enemies deal.  Example: Level 40 Bombard deals 350 damage per rocket, but in T4 deals 1050 damage per rocket, which is what a level 88 Bombard would deal.  1050 damage is enough to wipe out a 300/300 frame with 100 armor in one shot, which is just silly.  

Armor/Health builds have become a fad over time, but are really only desirable on a handful of frames and only worth it when you have a gimmick that restores HP like life strike, healing powers, or perhaps just spamming restores.  They are popular only because people tend to greatly overestimate the benefit of the armor stat.

The recent addition of Medi-Ray has made shield tanking more viable again.  I find that Medi-Ray is adequate to top me off in between Guardian cooldowns, even when I'm not running Redirection.  Good movement habits are needed to survive 50+ content without any defense mods, but Guardian + Medi-Ray allow you to not have to rely on restores, which is great.

[RadriarTheGodKing]

Only problem i see with no overflow damage is that even an infinately powerful enemy can only 2 shot you. After a while, enemy scaling would start to not really matter. I do believe shields at this point could use a rework though.

[RealPandemonium]

14 minutes ago, RadriarTheGodKing said:

Only problem i see with no overflow damage is that even an infinately powerful enemy can only 2 shot you. After a while, enemy scaling would start to not really matter. I do believe shields at this point could use a rework though.

We shouldn't be reaching that level in the first place.  Romanticizing the "CC everything or get 1-shotted" theoretical endless territory helped to get us into the balance mess that we currently find ourselves in.  

[radthezero]

There's also the problem with Frost. Frost is the best frame to illustrate the problem here. Before, when Armor used to apply to Shields, Frost was effectively the magic wall alternative to Rhino. Both were slightly slower frames with good tanking capacities. Come Damage 2.0, Rhino stayed mostly the same, while Frost was left with the third biggest Armor stat in the game, that he can't make full use of, having a huge Shield pool it can't effectively use for the same problems mentioned before, and being forced to run Health, which is statistically inferior to his Shield, so that it could make use of his defenses AND Snow Globe, which uses your Armor as a base.

Granted, it got better after the rework, but it's still true that Frost's stats are a mirror of the ancient and make literally no sense in the current game.

[felixsylvaris]

Shields have some benefits, starting with autoregen, which at least at some level works if you hit and run.

There is also synergy with sentinel mod instarefreshing shield.

There could be a problem that not many frames have base shields 450. (not many worth investing in shields in 1st place)

It is good idea of shields protecting at least against some statuses as ;long as they didnt get penetrated.

Also damage scaling leads to one shot of all squishies shields or not.

[atom]

2 hours ago, RadriarTheGodKing said:

Only problem i see with no overflow damage is that even an infinately powerful enemy can only 2 shot you. After a while, enemy scaling would start to not really matter. I do believe shields at this point could use a rework though.

that would only happen if you face 1 enemy. but in real gameplay at high level you are surrounded and being shot at from multiple sources so enemy scaling is really unaffected since you will be killed regardless. it would maybe allow you to use your skills and survive in a different way. as it is now you either cc lock or die with full shield/health/iron skin on from a random non telegraphed shot while parkouring.

what's so bad about being 2shot anyway? 

Edited July 28, 2016 by ..atom..

[ashrah]

shields  really need rework...

[MXultra]

Does nobody use Quick Thinking on squishies?

I'd also like a shield buff, but when the HP+Armor combo doesn't work, try QT+Zenurik.

[SenorClipClop]

While Shield tanks may not be as potent into high-level content, high shields can still fill an important role. I will take Banshee on Sorties regularly and take high shields if I have the mod space. As a squishy frame, Banshee goes down in one or two direct hits anyway, so playing her in late game demands you stay mobile enough not to get hit. I'll take high shields on her in case I happen to get hit with some stray gunfire or get caught in enemy CC. 

[Kevrex97]

i think Shields need a mod that ether grants shield hardness( dmg resistance) or have temporary shield dmg immunity

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

Recently, I've stopped using Life Strike in exchange for extra damage. Of course, I make sure I have some way of healing, but that's sometimes not as reliable, and that's made me value my shields far more. I think shields are fine as they are, however, if they needed an improvement, I'd suggest making blocked attacks unable to proc while you still have shields.

[RealPandemonium]

10 hours ago, radthezero said:

There's also the problem with Frost. Frost is the best frame to illustrate the problem here. Before, when Armor used to apply to Shields, Frost was effectively the magic wall alternative to Rhino. Both were slightly slower frames with good tanking capacities. Come Damage 2.0, Rhino stayed mostly the same, while Frost was left with the third biggest Armor stat in the game, that he can't make full use of, having a huge Shield pool it can't effectively use for the same problems mentioned before, and being forced to run Health, which is statistically inferior to his Shield, so that it could make use of his defenses AND Snow Globe, which uses your Armor as a base.

Granted, it got better after the rework, but it's still true that Frost's stats are a mirror of the ancient and make literally no sense in the current game.

This is silly.  Building armor or having high armor is not a waste when you have high shields, and increasing shields when you have high armor isn't a waste either.  There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Frost's base stats; on the contrary, he has some of the best base stats in the game alongside having the most overloaded kit, making him beyond top tier.

Edited July 29, 2016 by RealPandemonium