Now that we're getting a Tigris Prime, can we get an alt-fire for the Tigris?

[MJ12]

The Tigris's unique trigger is interesting but it's also kind of annoying. Given that alt-fire modes are becoming more common, it would probably be better for gameplay if the Tigris and its Prime basically worked like this:

Primary fire-fires 1 shot.

Alternate fire-fires a 2-round burst (or even 2 shots simultaneously). This would make management of the Tigris easier without making it more powerful or anything-just more convenient.

[Bobtm]

Please no, for myself and others the Duplex-Auto method of firing is part of what makes the Tigris enjoyable to use.  I find the current firing mode convenient, easy to control/handle, and fun, on top of being unique.  Were the Tigris to function as you're describing it's then just another Hek-clone more or less, further reducing meaningful variety in a weapon class.  It's a bummer to me that we don't have one rifle and one secondary that also share this general trigger type as well.

Emphasis on the number one in both above points.  Just a single iteration in the different categories would be enough to have some other interesting options within this same mechanic.

Anyways though, having the alt-fire button to allow a player to change it (Stradavar style) into a semi-auto wouldn't ruin the gun for those who do enjoy Duplex-Auto, nor would it remove the unique mechanic.  So if it's compromise speaking that would be the most agreeable way to go about it.  If anything were to hypothetically be changed at all of course.

[MJ12]

36 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

Please no, for myself and others the Duplex-Auto method of firing is part of what makes the Tigris enjoyable to use.  I find the current firing mode convenient, easy to control/handle, and fun, on top of being unique.  Were the Tigris to function as you're describing it's then just another Hek-clone more or less, further reducing meaningful variety in a weapon class.  It's a bummer to me that we don't have one rifle and one secondary that also share this general trigger type as well.

Emphasis on the number one in both above points.  Just a single iteration in the different categories would be enough to have some other interesting options within this same mechanic.

Anyways though, having the alt-fire button to allow a player to change it (Stradavar style) into a semi-auto wouldn't ruin the gun for those who do enjoy Duplex-Auto, nor would it remove the unique mechanic.  So if it's compromise speaking that would be the most agreeable way to go about it.  If anything were to hypothetically be changed at all of course.

"Duplex-auto" solely exists because when the Tigris was implemented, the game had no alt-fire so this was the only way they could have the weapon either fire one or two shots and although inconvenient, this was the only way they could implement it at the time. This is probably also why no other weapon has used the trigger type.

Simply because you've gotten used to a mechanic that exists because they ran out of keybinding space doesn't make it a good mechanic, and the 'uniqueness' is actually a fairly good sign that it's not good.

Maybe it's not the worst thing in the game, sure. But I think there is a reason out of like, a random sample of 100 3rd person shooter guns, you will find zero which use the Tigris's firing mechanics. That reason is because it's counterintuitive and much more easily implemented by a fire mode toggle between single and double fire.

[Ivan_Rid]

2 hours ago, MJ12 said:

The Tigris's unique trigger is interesting but it's also kind of annoying. Given that alt-fire modes are becoming more common, it would probably be better for gameplay if the Tigris and its Prime basically worked like this:

Primary fire-fires 1 shot.

Alternate fire-fires a 2-round burst (or even 2 shots simultaneously). This would make management of the Tigris easier without making it more powerful or anything-just more convenient.

I dont find it annoying. I`m very fond of current system.

If such a change would come through I`d rather have a single shot bound on alt fire instead, so I wont have to deal with it, if I dont want to.

[Bobtm]

48 minutes ago, MJ12 said:

"Duplex-auto" solely exists because when the Tigris was implemented, the game had no alt-fire so this was the only way they could have the weapon either fire one or two shots and although inconvenient, this was the only way they could implement it at the time. This is probably also why no other weapon has used the trigger type.

This is pretty much not true.  For one point, DE explicitly noted that the Tigris' mechanical functionality with the Duplex-Auto trigger is its intended design.  Were it a mechanical issue prior they'd have immediately changed the gun's functionality when the game's code was made to support alt-fire controls.  In fact beyond that, when the alt-fire patch initially hit there was a bug produced by it that allowed the Tigris to fire a single shot with the alt-fire input.  DE directly removed said bug, and straight up said that the Tigris isn't meant to be a semi-automatic gun, and that its Duplex-Auto trigger was its intended original design.

Also to further that point;  The Tigris was first added in Update 11 which was released on November 20, 2013.  The first weapon thereafter to use a partial alt-fire function was the Penta, which was added in Update 11.3 which was released on December 11, 2013.  The Penta of course at the time merely used the Aim control to substitute for alt-fire.  But were it DE's intent to have the Tigris do something with an alt-fire rather than Duplex-Auto, they would've just made it like that to begin with.  Lacking alt-fire binding didn't stop them from releasing multiple guns prior to said binding being eventually added in a much, much later update.

What is actually true is that yes, the majority would probably prefer the removal of Duplex-Auto.  But does every single thing need to warrantlessly cater only to the majority because they're the majority?  There are already other outstanding shotguns that aren't a Tigris iteration.  The alternate "solution" I suggested would let folks like you or others use it as a semi-automatic weapon without needlessly removing its current functionality.

The word solution being in quotations there because there's no problem.  If one doesn't like a gun the solution isn't to change the gun, it's to not use a gun you dislike, and instead use one you do.  This isn't a discussion of balance, it's a discussion of design intent and unique mechanics.

[MJ12]

36 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

This is pretty much not true.  For one point, DE explicitly noted that the Tigris' mechanical functionality with the Duplex-Auto trigger is its intended design.  Were it a mechanical issue prior they'd have immediately changed the gun's functionality when the game's code was made to support alt-fire controls.  In fact beyond that, when the alt-fire patch initially hit there was a bug produced by it that allowed the Tigris to fire a single shot with the alt-fire input.  DE directly removed said bug, and straight up said that the Tigris isn't meant to be a semi-automatic gun, and that its Duplex-Auto trigger was its intended original design.

Yes, its intended original design-when there was no alt-fire. Things change. Its intended original design is irrelevant to the fact that duplex-auto is a clunky system which was only excusable when you couldn't bind fire once/twice to different keys. Let's not forget that the verdict when it was reversed was "why would you make the Tigris bad again?"

Only a handful of aggressive trolls were defending the change. Even heavy Tigris users were happy with having the ability to choose one or two shots with the "get used to duplex-auto" posts being quite low-rated:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bz4VoX1v7F4J:https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3hnj0u/tigris_trigger_mechanism_discussion/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Also to further that point;  The Tigris was first added in

Update 11 which was released on November 20, 2013.  The first weapon thereafter to use a partial alt-fire function was the Penta, which was added in Update 11.3 which was released on December 11, 2013.  The Penta of course at the time merely used the Aim control to substitute for alt-fire.  But were it DE's intent to have the Tigris do something with an alt-fire rather than Duplex-Auto, they would've just made it like that to begin with.  Lacking alt-fire binding didn't stop them from releasing multiple guns prior to said binding being eventually added in a much, much later update.

What is actually true is that yes, the majority would probably prefer the removal of Duplex-Auto.  But does every single thing need to warrantlessly cater only to the majority because they're the majority?  There are already other outstanding shotguns that aren't a Tigris iteration.  The alternate "solution" I suggested would let folks like you or others use it as a semi-automatic weapon without needlessly removing its current functionality.

The word solution being in quotations there because there's no problem.  If one doesn't like a gun the solution isn't to change the gun, it's to not use a gun you dislike, and instead use one you do.  This isn't a discussion of balance, it's a discussion of design intent and unique mechanics.

Unique mechanics are desirable when they're fun and used for emphasis. When the majority dislike the mechanic, and there is a significantly better solution, unique mechanics are bad design. Even guns in Borderlands, save for unique and zany weapons, generally behave in a relatively small number of predictable ways and largely differ in stats-and that's a game which advertises 'one bazillion guns.' The fact that if you looked at a hundred guns in shooters, you would not come up with a single duplex-auto weapon demonstrates why it's bad in and of itself. Yes, you can "get used to it" but getting used to a bad mechanic does not make it good, any more than being able to play a FPS without mouselook makes a lack of mouselook a good mechanic.

If DE wants to allow us to use one shot at a time, make it burst/semi. If DE wants us to fire both shots simultaneously, make it pure burst-fire or act like the Twin Grakata where it uses 2 ammo/shot, then double its damage and shot count. Right now we have the worst of all worlds-a clunky system which lets you do both, but far more clunkily than a proper primary/alt-fire mode. Notably, people with hand injuries or conditions often suffer physical pain using the Tigris, something its fans ignore. That said, I don't mind having an option to force Duplex-Auto on the Tigris for the diehards. I just want its default behavior changed.

[Chipputer]

I could've sworn they had this at one point and then removed it. Still not sure why they did, either, because it was a perfectly suitable way to handle the weapon-- click/release to fire two shots in rapid succession, click alt fire to fire one shot and save the other one without having to hold down the fire button.

[Misgenesis]

Id prefer a single fire mode. Having to hold down the mouse makes trying to maneuver and aim a hassle.

Just introduce a fire mode like Stradavar has.

[(XBOX)CitrusTheNile]

At least for me being a console player I really like Duplex-Auto. Holding the trigger down is no problem as opposed to using an alt fire method which is a pain considering I have to press down on the right thumb stick. Switching between single fire and auto is smooth and I would prefer to not have it changed. 

[Sintag]

Hey guys, little hint for you.

 

Rolling cancels the second shot.  Click, hold for a moment, roll, and bam, you can let go without having to hold the trigger down or waste a second shot.  You can also reload cancel out of the shot.

 

Learn to work with Duplex-Auto, not against it.

[ThePredicament]

Was on the same boat about how it should have alt for single, primary for double, then realized that a newer type of shotgun can fill that niche instead of making others (who are used to it, like me now) change their gameplay style for it. Like Tigris's more versatile shotgun, could even be a triple barrel, primary is a barrel, alt is all three, etc.

[Icymountain]

I like it as it is. Just because you don't doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. 

 

If you want it to change, don't touch the Duplex-Auto trigger on the primary fire. That's all. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Icymountain

[MJ12]

5 hours ago, Sintag said:

Hey guys, little hint for you.

 

Rolling cancels the second shot.  Click, hold for a moment, roll, and bam, you can let go without having to hold the trigger down or waste a second shot.  You can also reload cancel out of the shot.

 

Learn to work with Duplex-Auto, not against it.

Why should people have to "learn to work with it"? This isn't a physical law of the universe we're complaining against. If people are "working against it" it's a sign that it probably does need some sort of change. Duplex-auto is not a good mechanic if people are "working against it." There's good reasons why people are actively against it and have wanted it changed for several updates.

The traits of duplex-auto:

• Causes people with certain physical disabilities actual physical pain
• Is clunky and complex in a fast-paced game
• Requires animation canceling techniques to make use of-techniques which generally are not used in Warframe because it's not designed around animation canceling as a default mechanic (again, inconsistent)
• Is completely counterintuitive on a base level-tap and hold to fire, let go to fire again? Weapons in Warframe either fire when you give the command, or don't fire until you stop holding the button.

The traits of single/2 rd burst fire:

• Doesn't cause disabled people physical pain
• Is simple and easy to use
• Doesn't require animation canceling techniques to use
• Is intuitive and behaves like other Warframe weapons-fire shoots once, letting go of the trigger doesn't use ammunition, alt-fire does an alt-fire related thing.

The pro-duplex argument is basically "I like it, so it should stay the same." Unfortunately, your personal preference shouldn't take the majority viewpoint hostage. Again, the majority opinion on the Warframe Reddit-a site that has probably one of the largest WF communities and is a fairly good guide to popular opinion-is that the trigger mechanism of the Tigris is not just something they don't prefer, but is actively bad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3hnj0u/tigris_trigger_mechanism_discussion/

And they're right, because there are actual good design principles it violates-the principle of consistency and the principle of least complexity are important for games. If something violates good design principles, and the only defense that can be offered is "it's unique and I've gotten used to it (with the condescending undertone of 'and you should too')" it's probably not a good mechanic. Yes okay you like it, but it violates good design principles and the majority of people actively dislike it, only using the Tigris because it puts out a lot of damage-and again, inconvenience is not a balance factor to power-it just gives players who have a high tolerance for poor mechanics an advantage.

If DE thinks that this is good balancing, by making the weapon annoying to use, they are wrong. If you like the mechanics, for some reason, well, there's no accounting for taste, and you aren't wrong, but your like of the mechanics should not stand in the way of making the mechanics better for the majority of people who don't like them. Again, if DE made the default burst/semi, and gave you a "force duplex-auto on two-round burst weapons" option, would this actually impact or harm you in any way? If not, why are you against it then?

[ograzzt]

Did you really believe we can have nice things?

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

13 hours ago, MJ12 said:

"Duplex-auto" solely exists because when the Tigris was implemented, the game had no alt-fire so this was the only way they could have the weapon either fire one or two shots and although inconvenient, this was the only way they could implement it at the time. This is probably also why no other weapon has used the trigger type.

Simply because you've gotten used to a mechanic that exists because they ran out of keybinding space doesn't make it a good mechanic, and the 'uniqueness' is actually a fairly good sign that it's not good.

Maybe it's not the worst thing in the game, sure. But I think there is a reason out of like, a random sample of 100 3rd person shooter guns, you will find zero which use the Tigris's firing mechanics. That reason is because it's counterintuitive and much more easily implemented by a fire mode toggle between single and double fire.

Actually, I've seen many games with shotguns that are to fire 2 shots in rapid succession. They all required you to press the shooting button twice. The Tigris only makes me press it ome to fire in the way I would 90% of the time anyway. With the same button, I get an option to fire each shot individually, and it's in such a way that I can change my mind about if I want to immediately fire the second shot as I shoot the first. The duplex-auto trigger maximizes its usability while adding convenience. I hate the Sancti Tigris, (becuase of reloading, mainly) but I sure appreciate that aspect of it.

[bubbabenali]

Oh no, the power house number 1 is clunky to use, pls add baby mode asap DE!

[KirukaChan]

23 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

Oh no, the power house number 1 is clunky to use, pls add baby mode asap DE!

"Baby mode"? You mean making it closer to how double-barreled shotguns actually work?

The Tigris series' power is already offset by its limited range (both in terms of spread and the damage falloff mechanic), as well as having to reload very frequently, which is a bigger disadvantage in close-medium range combat (where one would typically be using a shotgun) than it is for a longer range weapon like bows or the Vectis series.

Personally, I don't have any trouble handling the Tigris' current control style, but I'd welcome the change if DE decided to make it. Although, I'd love it if they went a step further. Ideally, when firing both Tigris barrels together, the shots should be fired simultaneously (think AkJagara or Twin Grakatas). That would be a straight-up buff to DPS, though, so I wouldn't be mad if they didn't go through with that.

[bubbabenali]

3 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

"Baby mode"? You mean making it closer to how double-barreled shotguns actually work?

The Tigris series' power is already offset by its limited range (both in terms of spread and the damage falloff mechanic), as well as having to reload very frequently, which is a bigger disadvantage in close-medium range combat (where one would typically be using a shotgun) than it is for a longer range weapon like bows or the Vectis series.

Personally, I don't have any trouble handling the Tigris' current control style, but I'd welcome the change if DE decided to make it. Although, I'd love it if they went a step further. Ideally, when firing both Tigris barrels together, the shots should be fired simultaneously (think AkJagara or Twin Grakatas). That would be a straight-up buff to DPS, though, so I wouldn't be mad if they didn't go through with that.

1. Reality checking Warframe tech, really?

2. An actual double-barreled shotgun shredding a group of heavily armed dudes 500m away into tiny pices? Yea, no damage falloff and spread still have a little impact on these oneshotters.

[KirukaChan]

27 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

1. Reality checking Warframe tech, really?

2. An actual double-barreled shotgun shredding a group of heavily armed dudes 500m away into tiny pices? Yea, no damage falloff and spread still have a little impact on these oneshotters.

The duplex-auto mechanic stands out as out of place to me. Not just because it's unrealistic, but I also haven't even seen a trigger mechanic like that used in any other video game before. It goes against the "press to shoot once, hold to shoot more" mechanic that's commonly used in tons of games that involve shooting.

Your second point is a fair one, mainly because the Tigris series just does insane damage overall (not to mention endless missions being less desirable now with the changes to the Void, leading to a reduction in the average level of enemies people will face on a day to day basis), but I still don't think the handling of the duplex-auto mechanic should be something intended to un-baby-mode the gun. It just makes me think, if its only purpose is to make it less easy to use, why was it designed that way (from an in-universe perspective)?

[Bobtm]

13 hours ago, MJ12 said:

Yes, its intended original design-when there was no alt-fire. Things change. Its intended original design is irrelevant to the fact that duplex-auto is a clunky system which was only excusable when you couldn't bind fire once/twice to different keys. Let's not forget that the verdict when it was reversed was "why would you make the Tigris bad again?"

Only a handful of aggressive trolls were defending the change. Even heavy Tigris users were happy with having the ability to choose one or two shots with the "get used to duplex-auto" posts being quite low-rated:
 

As noted prior, I'm open to and totally supportive of a change that doesn't remove the ability to have Duplex-Auto as the gun's primary fire, hence why I'll point out for the third time that having a Stradavar type mechahnic or straight up an option somewhere in the game to choose in the arsenal would be the easiest way to do this.  In the event of it being "Stradavar-like" for the minority like myself who actively enjoy the mechanical advantages to Duplex-Auto (which isn't mechanically bad, I'll explain below) nothing would change about the gun's usability.  For those in the majority whom hate this trigger type they could mainly use the gun's secondary firing mode which would be Semi-Auto.  And if they wanted a near instant double-shot, tapping alt-fire to swap to Duplex-Auto is how they would be able to treat it as such, by tapping the fire button for an effective two shots at once.  Of course some sort of in-arsenal toggle for firing modes would be even better in terms of player agency in this.

Changing to remove Duplex-Auto however is genuinely silly and, despite being the majority opinion, has been nothing but a selfish viewpoint that players try to justify on numerous false claims.  For starters, people continue to act like it wasn't the design intent for the Tigris to be Duplex-Auto.  We know, via hard confirmation from DE and the fact that a gun with an alt-fire mechanic was implemented into Warframe a mere 21 days after the Tigris was put into the game. There were just 3 weeks between the Tigris' release and the Penta's release.  Duplex-Auto is straight up not some excuse or any other silly thing, it's a unique and effective mechanic.  DE would've just put two-shots at once on the Aim input, and single-shot on the primary fire and just had the gun have no normalized aim function.  They did just this and had guns with no normalized aim function on the Penta, Castanas, Buzlok, and others.  Not having an alt-fire clearly didn't stop DE from putting a bunch of guns in with alt-fires, one of which was released very, very shortly after the Tigris.

To explain on the point of the mechanical advantages of Duplex-Auto;

• A player need not use more than one firing input to achieve varied results with the gun's speed in unloading two rounds.  A mere tap is an effective instantaneous firing of two rounds in succession.  Holding the trigger for a moment (the Tigris' reload is 1.8 or 1.5) so generally you either do a slight pause lower than the reload and fire two rounds at two areas in near placement.  Or, should you intend to not fire within the near-immediate time frame, due to the short reload time, reloading is then the better option.  Readying two rounds again.  It's basically a custom controlled variant of a two-shot burst, leaving the full decision of payload delivery to the user.
• It's all on one single button.  You don't have to concern yourself with additional inputs for either functionality.  Having more than one function, on a single finger, using nothing beyond the standard physical movements applied during normalized play, well that's the literal definition of simplicity.

People dislike Duplex-Auto not because "it's objectively bad" but because it is different.  They aren't wrong for hating it of course, preference is key when regarding input types.  But it isn't a bad mechanic.

3 hours ago, MJ12 said:

Again, if DE made the default burst/semi, and gave you a "force duplex-auto on two-round burst weapons" option, would this actually impact or harm you in any way? If not, why are you against it then?

I never said I was against that, and I never have been.  I'm open to every plausible option that would retain Duplex-Auto but would also allow those who don't like it to use the same gun without this firing mode and instead a more "normal" one.  Preference is always a great thing in games so long as it doesn't impact balancing.  This change wouldn't do impact balancing and it's why I've always been for and in support of every possible suggested change that doesn't pitch Duplex-Auto out the window.

To reiterate a core point within this slightly lengthy post;  I'm 100% for any and all changes which would allow the Tigris to in some form to use some form of single-shot mechanics and even a different primary firing mode.  So long as the ability to have Duplex-Auto as a possible chosen primary firing mode is retained.

3 hours ago, MJ12 said:

The traits of duplex-auto:

• Causes people with certain physical disabilities actual physical pain
• Is clunky and complex in a fast-paced game

This is less for the main discussion and more of something I've always had a hard time actually understanding.  Personally, from the literal first time I utilized the Tigris (very shortly after its release on PS4 (started there before changing my main platform to PC) I actively found the Duplex-Auto trigger type to be a much better analogy to the standard variations on two shot mechanics across every game I've ever played.  I genuinely don't see how anyone would find Duplex-Auto to be clunky, rather it's actually more responsive and uses fewer mechanical inputs (one button versus two) which seems to fly in the face to the contrary of what everyone who dislikes it says.  I'm not saying that they're wrong in this, but to me it sounds like nonsense.  Not is, sounds like, as in I don't see how the logical connection there exists.  It's basically a two-shot burst which is directly controlled in its timings by a one-finger input.

Then there's the pain part, which I also don't quite get "Causes people with certain physical disabilities actual physical pain".  I've seen more than a few of the folks who hate Duplex-Auto bring this point up, so there has to be something to it obviously.  However there's another logical break to this that isn't quite making sense.  I nearly never see anyone point out that they have a hard time holding the charge on Bows.  With a Bow or many of the other charge based weaponry, a player will be holding the fire input down far more often than they would when using the Tigris or one of its variants.  Since there are times when you may desire to actually fire both Tigris shots in near instant succession, those are times when holding the fire input would no longer be needed.

If holding the firing button for Duplex-Auto is strenuous for some to the point where it's a super-commonly risen point in the Duplex-Auto discussions, why is it not an issue with all Charge inputs?  From a physical standpoint, Duplex-Auto's required motions are no different than a Charge input's.  In fact, you're required to hold the fire input generally less on a Duplex-Auto for maximized effective use than you are for a Bow or most any other Charge type weapon.

These two points are ones I've always found to be incredibly perplexing.

______________________________________________________________

A TLDR for those who don't want to read the above?  I'm in favor of any change that would allow a player to use some more normalized trigger mechanic on the Tigrs and its iterations.  As long as said changes also allow a player to retain the current Duplex-Auto mechanic as a possible primary fire input should they so desire.

Or in other words;  I'm okay with you having what you want, as long as what I want isn't unnecessarily removed.

[djternan]

I'm pretty happy with the current duplex-auto trigger.  It's a unique mechanic.  I like it better than burst fire or semi-auto.  However, I can see how some people dislike it.  They should either make alt fire be a single shot out make alt fire switch it to semi-auto mode similar to Stradavar as suggested by someone else above.

 

3 hours ago, MJ12 said:

Why should people have to "learn to work with it"? This isn't a physical law of the universe we're complaining against. If people are "working against it" it's a sign that it probably does need some sort of change. Duplex-auto is not a good mechanic if people are "working against it." There's good reasons why people are actively against it and have wanted it changed for several updates.

• The pro-duplex argument is basically "I like it, so it should stay the same." Unfortunately, your personal preference shouldn't take the majority viewpoint hostage. Again, the majority opinion on the Warframe Reddit-a site that has probably one of the largest WF communities and is a fairly good guide to popular opinion-is that the trigger mechanism of the Tigris is not just something they don't prefer, but is actively bad.

Again, if DE made the default burst/semi, and gave you a "force duplex-auto on two-round burst weapons" option, would this actually impact or harm you in any way? If not, why are you against it then?

People work against semi auto weapon mechanics by binding fire to the scroll wheel.  People work against high RoF mechanics by firing in small bursts.  These are not bad mechanics in need of change even though people "work against them".  You may not particularly like a mechanic and you may do what you want to mitigate what you don't like about it but that doesn't make it a bad mechanic.

 

"I like this so this is how it should be" is the same argument you're making.  Those who support a duplex auto do not share the viewpoint that 2 round burst or single shot is a better mechanic.

 

You can say you found several people who want a change but you haven't done a study to say the majority of Warframe players want a change. 

 

I wouldn't mind a change to the trigger type for others as long as I had the option to keep it the same.  The last suggestion you make would work.

[NecroPed]

14 hours ago, MJ12 said:

Only a handful of aggressive trolls were defending the change. Even heavy Tigris users were happy with having the ability to choose one or two shots with the "get used to duplex-auto" posts being quite low-rated:

 

 

Tigris is the main weapon I use and I don't want it to lose it's unique duplex firing mechanic. I love the way the weapon works. At most I think maybe alt fire could fire both shots and once but I really don't like the idea of it being able to simply semi auto.

[MJ12]

5 hours ago, djternan said:

I'm pretty happy with the current duplex-auto trigger.  It's a unique mechanic.  I like it better than burst fire or semi-auto.  However, I can see how some people dislike it.  They should either make alt fire be a single shot out make alt fire switch it to semi-auto mode similar to Stradavar as suggested by someone else above.

 

People work against semi auto weapon mechanics by binding fire to the scroll wheel.  People work against high RoF mechanics by firing in small bursts.  These are not bad mechanics in need of change even though people "work against them".  You may not particularly like a mechanic and you may do what you want to mitigate what you don't like about it but that doesn't make it a bad mechanic.

 

"I like this so this is how it should be" is the same argument you're making.  Those who support a duplex auto do not share the viewpoint that 2 round burst or single shot is a better mechanic.

 

You can say you found several people who want a change but you haven't done a study to say the majority of Warframe players want a change. 

 

I wouldn't mind a change to the trigger type for others as long as I had the option to keep it the same.  The last suggestion you make would work.

 

Firing in short bursts isn't "working against high RoF mechanics." Animation cancelling or reload cancelling in the middle of a firing sequence with the Tigris is working against the duplex-auto mechanic, because it uses a mechanical exploit-the fact that the gun doesn't remember whether it was primed to fire or not-to avoid the use of the duplex-auto mechanic. It's just like how people try to make use of high-RoF low damage semi-auto weapons via using the scroll wheel or Autohotkey-which I would say is another example of a bad mechanic. You think that bad mechanic is just a matter of opinion, but it isn't. There are actual mechanical guidelines-least complexity and consistency-which the Tigris's trigger method violates. The fact is that the even the supporters of the duplex-auto system are 'working against the mechanic' by using reload to cancel the second shot, or animation-cancelling it. That's not a good sign for how the mechanic is something that should stay in, when "I like it" seems to often translate into "I got used to it, git gud scrub" rather than "I actually use the weapon like this 100% of the time."

Honest question-how many of you would like Duplex-Auto if you couldn't cancel the second shot at all? I suspect the number would be a lot lower.

And the Reddit thread I showed-83% of people who saw it-and that was before people were all about the Tigris as a 'meta' weapon-thought the Tigris would be better firing burst/semi rather than duplex-auto. That, I think, demonstrates that the majority of engaged Warframe players who use the Tigris wanted a change.

[RealPandemonium]

no

[Tsunero]

At first I found the duplex auto system very weird but once I got used to it it's quite versalite and holding fire after I do my first shot pretty much became second nature to me. However, I would like an alt fire because with these fissure buffs I was able to experience infinite ammo and no reload on my Sancti and god it was awesome just firing away 2 shots at once forever xD.