How exactly can a weapon be abused? What makes abusing different from simply using?

[Eldnacpeek]

Please keep in mind I am not trying to start any arguments. I'll also try not to have any bias (can't assure you me trying means a guarantee), but rather post honest questions from an (attempted) impartial view. This is a legitimate question I've felt the need to ask due to a somewhat high amount of Synoid Simulor callout threads I've come across as of late;

How is a weapon "abused"?

---

Is it actually referring to overuse? As in many players witness their squad decimate most of the map with a specific weapon effortlessly and now find that weapon to be overpowered? (I'm primarily a solo/duo player, so I'm certainly not speaking from personal experience)

So that means if a weapon is overpowered, aka just very powerful, anyone who uses it is automatically abusing it?

Then what exactly makes abusing different from using? If someone is using a weapon, but it turns out that weapon is overpowered, they're then considered to be abusing it?

As an example, Nikana Prime is very powerful and I use it frequently; am I actually abusing it due to its capabilities? Or is it actually a frame's specific ability/abilities in conjunction with a weapon that makes it "abused"?

Mirage and Synoid Simulor is considered an abused combo, but why? Both just happen to have good synergy with one another (again, not trying to be biased, but I've observed this pair), so does that mean frames paired with weapons that suit their abilities are an abused combo? 

Yes, I understand comparing Nikana Prime and Synoid Simulor, two beyond entirely different weapons is a weak example. However, Synoid Simulor gets a lot of kills and so does Nikana Prime; what makes them different? Is it because Synoid Simulor is an AoE primary with little work required? If so, then that goes back to the first question; how is it abused? Yes, it takes little effort to get an incredibly large amount of kills using it, but does that mean any weapon with little effort to use and incredible power are instantly considered abused the very second one begins killing with it?

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I apologize if I seem hostile, but please understand that was never my intention. I'm just looking to see what others find in the term "abuse" regarding powerful weapons and what makes one "abused" or "used". And please forgive any possible typos or nonsensical/repeated/redundant word choices, I'm a tad worn out.

Edited August 16, 2016 by LazerSkink

[Redthirst]

"Abusing" is usually used to refer to weapons or weapon/warframe combos that aren't just powerful(like Nikana Prime), but straight up overpowered, making the entire game a joke. So yeah, if someone is using Mirage+Synoid Simulor, then he's abusing this combo to trivialize the game.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

but does that mean any weapon with little effort to use and incredible power are instantly considered abused the very second one begins killing with it?

Yes. 

Just my opinion ofc but that's the main point. The game should be work = reward, the more work you put in the greater the reward is (mainly in the form of more killing). Anything that upsets that balance, Mirage and Synoid being a wonderful example, is broken. Any playstyle that seeks to reduce the workload to almost nothing, but substantially increase rewards is abuse. 

[Trichouette]

Quote

How exactly can a weapon be abused?

Simply by using it as mirage :D

(i'm just kidding, but damage x5 + 2 clones is close to "abuse" to me)

[DeMeritus]

The difference between use of a weapon and abuses?

That's easy!  The answer is below:
 

Spoiler

ABS!

ABS + USE = ABUSES

 

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by DeMeritus

[Hemmo67]

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

15 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

but does that mean any weapon with little effort to use and incredible power are instantly considered abused the very second one begins killing with it?

Yes. 

Just my opinion ofc but that's the main point. The game should be work = reward, the more work you put in the greater the reward is (mainly in the form of more killing). Anything that upsets that balance, Mirage and Synoid being a wonderful example, is broken. Any playstyle that seeks to reduce the workload to almost nothing, but substantially increase rewards is abuse. 

soooo does this mean that because i am able to one shoot enemies with vulkar wraith in rapid succession i am abusing it? :|

halp me c_c

[Kai_Shiba]

Just now, Hemmo67 said:

soooo does this mean that because i am able to one shoot enemies with vulkar wraith in rapid succession i am abusing it? :|

halp me c_c

Vulkar Wraith can't clear rooms with 30 enemies with only 2-4 shots of a Mirage+Synoid

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Hemmo67 said:

soooo does this mean that because i am able to one shoot enemies with vulkar wraith in rapid succession i am abusing it? :|

halp me c_c

No, snipers require aiming and are limited in the number of enemies they can hit. You have to put work in to get results with a sniper rifle, therefore I don't consider your situation abuse.

[-CCC-Secret]

13 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes. 

Just my opinion ofc but that's the main point. The game should be work = reward, the more work you put in the greater the reward is (mainly in the form of more killing). Anything that upsets that balance, Mirage and Synoid being a wonderful example, is broken. Any playstyle that seeks to reduce the workload to almost nothing, but substantially increase rewards is abuse. 

So I guess Saryn with Torid/Hikou Prime is abusing the game as well? I'm just as confused as the OP is.

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, Hemmo67 said:

soooo does this mean that because i am able to one shoot enemies with vulkar wraith in rapid succession i am abusing it? :|

halp me c_c

No, that means you're skilfull with that weapon. Abused combos/weapons/mechanics require, as has been pointed before, little to no effort to trivialize content.

Now going to the specific example of synoid simulor, it feels like a cheat gun. High damage output, huge damage radius, constant stagger to enemies, allows raibow elemental builds to get rid of whatever, ammo efficient, high ammo pool, common ammo and a mechanic that requires no aiming to kill entire hordes of enemies and doesn't even need to be crafted, jist get it for free on cephalon suda or trade for it with someone else. How is that weapon not calling to be abused?

Edited August 16, 2016 by -----LegioN-----

[King]

Abusing a weapon means you're not playing the game like how people want you to.

[Varacal]

the only difference between abusing something and using something is ab

[Vesiga]

Abuse to me sounds like it would have a similar meaning of exploit. 
Like how people try to find combos to exploit interception EXP. 

That's all I can think of. 

[Beggining]

Basically, anything that requires so little effort you might as well not be playing the game. Anything that you can use to complete the objective without paying attention/while you make a sandwich.

I mean, if you're going to avoid the game, why play it? (Yes, I know the grind gets to you sometimes, it's a common argument)

Edited August 16, 2016 by Beggining
I ain't afraid of no ghosts

[Sziklamester]

There is nothing wrong to use weapons by your choices. That is nt your fault if a weapon and frame stronger than others it is the development fault to able to do that. This is not a moba game so not really see a reason why should everything locked into lanes and categories like you are support you don't need kill.

Of course this game meant to be frag as much you can as much weapon you farmed or bought via money. There will be always matches when you will be angry because others kill more than you and you will hate those combos. Someone already tried to beat an ember and saryn in infestation missions? I doubt but still not seen a nerf pls ember thread there.

Accept the fact this game never be balanced because new stuffs will ruin that balance in a matter of time. 

 

Peoples like to use weird words to clarify their rights.

[notlamprey]

The whole issue is entirely silly, if you ask me. Nobody has a right to point the finger at anyone for "abusing" anything.

As an example, I've played this game long enough and accumulated enough tools that no part of the game can stand between me and a successfully completed mission. If I bother to invest however long one attempt of X mission takes, I'll get the completion.

It's completely precedural; a foregone conclusion. Am I abusing "veteran" status? Of course not. The whole topic of "players abusing x" is completely pointless to discuss, and I wish people would stop doing it.

You're sending the wrong message to DE, and they're removing fun things because they think that's what needs to happen.

 

[Daconius]

Abuse is when you and your loadout are significantly more effective than them and their loadout and they're concerned you'll end the mission with higher stats, despite it being a co-op game.

If you want to control how other people play then don't queue for public groups with strangers - find some like-minded friends who also complain about Ash and Synoid Simulors and run missions with them using only Chopsticks Prime so you can tell each other how hardcore you are.

[Omnipower]

41 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

Please keep in mind I am not trying to start any arguments. I'll also try not to have any bias (can't assure you trying means guarantee), rather post honest questions from an (attempted) impartial view. This is a legitimate question I've felt the need to ask due to a somewhat high amount of Synoid Simulor callout threads I've come across as of late;

How is a weapon "abused"?

---

Is it actually referring to overuse? As in many players witness their squad decimate most of the map with a specific weapon effortlessly and now find that weapon to be overpowered?

So that means if a weapon is overpowered, aka just very powerful, anyone who uses it is automatically abusing it?

Then what exactly makes abusing different from using? If someone is using a weapon, but it turns out that weapon is overpowered, they're then considered to be abusing it?

As an example, Nikana Prime is very powerful and I use it frequently; am I actually abusing it due to its capabilities? Or is it actually a frame's specific ability/abilities in conjunction with a weapon that makes it "abused"?

Mirage and Synoid Simulor is considered an abused combo, but why? Both just happen to have good synergy with one another (again, not trying to be biased, but I've observed this pair), so does that mean frames paired with weapons that suit their abilities are an abused combo? 

Yes, I understand comparing Nikana Prime and Synoid Simulor, two beyond entirely different weapons is a weak example. However, Synoid Simulor gets a lot of kills and so does Nikana Prime; what makes them different? Is it because Synoid Simulor is an AoE primary with little work required? If so, then that goes back to the first question; how is it abused? Yes, it takes little effort to get an incredibly large amount of kills using it, but does that mean any weapon with little effort to use and incredible power are instantly considered abused the very second one begins killing with it?

---

I apologize if I seem hostile, but please understand that was never my intention. I'm just looking to see what others find in the term "abuse" regarding powerful weapons and what makes one "abused" or "used". And please forgive any possible typos or nonsensical/repeated/redundant word choices, I'm a tad worn out.

Well...

Abuse(verb)= to use something for a bad effect or purpose

Abuse(noun)= improper use of something

vs

Overuse= excessive use of something

if we take these googled definitions we can safely say people are just overusing something if they play it a lot and properly but say its being abused when they spam it to the detriment of their allies for example an Ash prolonging juggers life or spamming it when they do crap dmg forcing teammates to wait to kill anything; pre-LoS mirage locking down rooms making matches longer or fail entirely or limbos..nuff said

[Serafim_94]

It's when you use some mechanic in unintended or unforseen way to break aspect of the game on purpose. You can argue Tonkors headshotting everything were a form of mechanics abuse, but overall, we don't have weapons that allow it to the usual RPG extent. Only Simulor-Mirage interactions come close :P

Edited August 16, 2016 by Serafim_94

[cghawk]

I see it as this:

if you know something is so overpowerd it breaks/ruins the game and you only use that weapon/frame and nothing else then you are abusing it

[Syln]

if you wield a synoid simulor and shoot, you are already abusing it :3

[Vali]

I think the issue with the Synoid Simulor + Mirage combo is that the merge damage doesn't seem to be reduced for clones, so it does x5 damage instead of the x1.8 damage its supposed to do. 

[------Solo------]

I don't know why people complain about Mirage + Synoid, i personally enjoy it when i see Mirage in my group. I can slack and do nothing since i don't really care who will do the most damage or who will do the most kills because its stupid.

Edit: Personally, i hope DE some time remove that useless board that shows who did the most of each. To prevent people rushing missions and running like headless chickens just to prove that they can "carry" or outdps or w/e they are thinking.

Edited August 16, 2016 by PrimeDCookieMonstah

[Serafim_94]

1 minute ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:

I don't know why people complain about Mirage + Synoid, i personally enjoy it when i see Mirage in my group. I can slack and do nothing since i don't really care who will do the most damage or who will do the most kills because its stupid.

Not like it takes away from my fun, but it's just mechanically broken.

[------Solo------]

2 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Not like it takes away from my fun, but it's just mechanically broken.

Then ember + sancti tigris also is "mechanically broken". There are many things that you can consider mechanically broken in warframe, making a list of is pointless as it will result DE making more nerfs and people will start opening thousands not even hundreds of topics complaining about everything.