Thoughts After Soloing Corpus Sniper Excavation Sortie

[ssh83]

Wondering if people feel the same way?

1) RIP Aiming in Warframe.  I felt pretty out of practice at aiming... even though I've been playing Warframe... a shooter.  Weapons that require good aim really need buffs to stay competitive.

2) Needing to protect objectives made out of tissue paper narrows the number of viable loadouts.  It would be nice to have different variations like maybe objectives can't be destroyed by regular enemy fire but we have to protect it from EMP payload carts or from being hacked.

3) Quite a few times enemies stop spawning. Enemies far away needs to be removed to free up the spawn cap?

4) Dash-Rolling into Nullifier bubble is a death sentence when nullifiers are not alone inside their bubble.   This is kind of related to point #2 at choking out the number of viable loadout.  

5) Snipers reload/firing speed are slower than weapons stronger than them.  Considering the limited sniper ammo pool, sacrificing damage for reload speed actually kill your ammo efficiency in the long run.  The pain is doubled because well... PSA: Reload mod formula is worse than you'd intuitively expect.   ie.  +50% reload mod will not change 3 sec reload to 1.5 sec, but 2 sec.  see wiki: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Reload_Speed#Reload_Mods

 

Stats for the Solo Run:

Dead Excavators: 4

• one I didn't even realize it spawned while I was killing a Bursa.
• one from a nullifier that snuck up behind me with his friends while i was scoped at the other direction.  This happened a few more times but I didn't notice this one in time.
• one was due to things not spawning and I went far away to find power cell, but killing far away cause new enemies to spawn on excavator which died before i make it back.
• last one I already went over what i needed and only 1 revive left so i just let it die.

Revives used: 3

• Pretty easy to die against against those lvl 80+ when leaving snow globe to deal with nullifiers.

Headshots: 126/309

• Considering I ran Heavy Caliber and this is corpus, not terrible, but worse than I'd expect.

Loadout: 3-Forma Vulkar Wraith Corrosive+Impact build with Lasting Purity.  No pizzas, just Zenurik.  0-Forma Frost Prime.

[taiiat]

2 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

1) RIP Aiming in Warframe.  I felt pretty out of practice at aiming... even though I've been playing Warframe... a shooter.  Weapons that require good aim really need buffs to stay competitive.

Headshots: 126/309

• Considering I ran Heavy Caliber and this is corpus, not terrible, but worse than I'd expect.

so, you say you're not aiming well, and therefore.... Precision Weapons need adjustments to compensate for lack of aiming? aiming is literally their Archetype.

that's almost better than i'd expect since Heavy Caliber on a Sniper Rifle does more harm than good.

[TheSteelRat]

Hvy calibler, I think, hardly has an affect on Scoped shots.  But on no scoped shots i miss when something is more then 5 meters away

[MrJxt]

In situations like these, I would bring a specter with a relatively high fire rate primary weapon to pop nullifier bubbles. Not reliable but very helpful when they target nullies.

[Naftal]

They should just reduce the amount of autoaim and huge aoe this game has and put emphasis on aiming.

In my opinion moving and aiming properly is the main thing about warframe, or at least should be. Instead of cheesing with an ability that removes challenge.

Make the game skill based, even a little bit.

[Lendalas]

21 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

 

5) Snipers reload/firing speed are slower than weapons stronger than them.  Considering the limited sniper ammo pool, sacrificing damage for reload speed actually kill your ammo efficiency in the long run.  

This is the main reason why I don't play snipers ever. The Sortie yesterday forced me to pull out my Vulkar Wraith after a good 9 months of forgetting it exists and I gotta say, I reloaded it like 3 times, the rest was spent in razorwing because ain't nobody got time for that.

In fact, long reload times (not exclusive to snipers) really kill any immersion I have in this game.

[Inarticulate]

26 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

PSA: Reload mod formula is worse than you'd intuitively expect.   ie.  +50% reload mod will not change 3 sec reload to 1.5 sec, but 2 sec.

Increasing your car's speed by 50% decreases the amount of time it takes to get somewhere by 33%. Increasing your reload speed by 50% decreases the amount of time it takes to finish a reload by 33%. I don't see how this is unintuitive at all.

[NekroArts]

A sortie with a condition that would be seen as impractical...

[(XBOX)TheLegend 64312]

From what I've seen the sniper rework didn't help much. People used them for a while after bit now they're back to rarely used. When is so much easier to obliterate multiple enemies at once with barely any form of aiming it just isn't worth the extra time and effort. 

The other issues mainly just lead back to exponential enemy scaling. When they scale that fast, especially in the higher levels, objectives with a concrete (ish) value for health don't stand a chance. 

[Silence00]

DE could kill two birds with one stone...

 

Give Snipers the ability to punch through nullifier bubbles. Makes snipers have a broader use and 'balances' nullifier bubbles a bit. 

[Mak_Gohae]

1- RIP aiming? You mean head shots? Cause you mean everything else....what weapons do you use normally? The ignis? You need to start using other weapons.

( well, with heavy caliber i think we know the issue here)

2- that is an interesting idea but DE being DE would make it so half of the enemies do EMP damage so there little reason to worry about target priority.

3- isnt this good? No enemies makes it easier.

4- i think everyone knows this unless you are using a high status elec build

5- what weapons? Launchers are also slow to reload.

[DeMeritus]

Snipers have too many downsides with not enough good sides to make up for the severe flaws.

Downsides: Low fire rate, low overall base damage stats, low crit chance, low status chance, low accuracy outside of scope, slow reload speed, most have a low ammo pool, rarest ammo drop type, And a few other things I can't think of at the moment.

Upsides: Massive headshot bonus (Oh wait... nope, that's not actually a thing), penetration through obsctacles and multiple enemies(o shi- my bad, not actually a thing, either), highlighting of weak spots(dang, not actually a feature, was just my imagination), staggers enemies for a long period akin to what bursas do to tenno(Oh, right... this doesn't happen), disabling of enemy auras and buffs upon scoring a hit(Oh... wait... I only imagined this), boosted loot drop when an enemy is killed by a sniper round(damnit, this isn't a thing either), ummm...  Wait... come to think of it, what do they do well, really?

Really, snipers seem vasty outclassed by every single other weapon type.  They don't do anything well.  All the nerfs and ownsides with none of the  upsides to compensate for it.  Wielding one of these in a mission makes you feel insanely weak and useless in a mission.  You can't do S#&$ for DPS against high value targets that a sniper is supposed to be ideal for.

It's like someone forgot to actually include the benefits that were supposed to compensate for all the really bad stats the weapons have, only including the negative half of the weapon traits, with the rest ending up on the cutting room floor.  Kills a lot of the viability and fun with the weapons.

Pretty good reasons that you rarely see snipers in use in the game.

In the sortie, enemies stopped spawning over and over, all bunched up in a single room.  And power carriers were insanely hard to find, whereas bursas, techs, and nullifers were much more commonplace.  Guess we know what mobs DE prioritized spawning.  :P

Also, if snipers did the same level of DPS as the enemy version of the supra, then that would solve all the problems with the gun!

Edited September 9, 2016 by DeMeritus

[F0rcem4x]

I wonder how many players were able to solo it :P

In my opinion, the only problem is that there won't spawn enough carriers. I've spent most of time waiting for a carrier to show up, and it's honestly frustrating. I would like that Warframe was a bit better adapted for players who prefer to solo missions. In so many occasions, for me, soloing is far faster, dynamic and fun than going with a squad.

Maybe, and only maybe, the sniper could get a boost against nullifiers. But I think it's just a matter of strategy. For instance, I did it with snipetron vandal, using magazine warp (10 shots magazine), so most of time I didn't have any problem. Also, I was using frost. If you get in the bubble of the nullifier before his bubble touches your bubble, your bubble will still be there and the nulifier will be an easy target from inside his bubble (if you are sneaky enough). But, if there are too many mobs, or there is a nullifier in combination with a bursa, your best bet is to abandon than extractor and go for another one. You don't want to get too risky and there are plenty of extractors for you.

It was a fun experience overall :)

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1. weapons that are more dependant on accuracy are usually quite strong anyway. don't get me wrong, Sniper's could probably use a buff, but you'll always see more damage per-shot with something like the Dex Sybaris or Vectis prime than you will a Soma prime, it's DPS that matters. that said, I rifle alone can only do so much, the rest is down to the user, and the only way to get better at long range is with practice.

2. the fact that excavators don't scale like other objectives do is what makes Sortie excavation so tedious. and no, it wouldn't be "too easy" if they did scale, because even with scaled health it only takes about 5-10 seconds of exposure to tougher enemies like Corpus Techs and the thing will still get shredded. players would still have to actively defend the excavators as well as power them, but having them get nearly one shot by Bursas just isn't fair.

3. one of the most annoying bugs/features of an excavation. even worse when the spawn engine decides to give you ALL the Techs but no power carriers.

4. that's also a problem associated with nullifiers having a bubble that dies based on number of hits, rather than having a health system. on those occasions where we're trying to hit something other than the Nullifier, such as a Tech Eximus, they can fire a ton of shots at you, but you need a ton of shots to pop the bubble, and even more to actually kill the enemy in question. if they had an effective health system, snipers would be more effective as they could kill the bubble in a couple hits, as opposed to the 6 or so it normally takes.

5. yep, reloading snipers is a total nightmare, and Reload mods still don't always solve the problem, or might mean sacrificing a damage/elemental mod, thus making your rifle less effective.

Snipers are probably the worst primaries in the game, not suited to close range combat (which is about 95% of all engagements in this game), and not powerful enough against long-range targets. no having Punchthrough is also a serious downside, with the exception of the Snipetron family. but even then, the Punchthrough isn't great, the reloads are slow, and in the time it takes to kill one enemy, someone with a Dread or Rakta Cernos can kill 5.

I'm not suggesting snipers should literally one shot everything regardless of level, obviously, but innate Punchthrough and a damage buff that puts them on par with some of the Bows would be good enough. Bows would still be used, as they are silent and can be faster than a sniper.

#MakeSnipersGreatAgain.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

On 8/9/2016 at 2:03 PM, Silence00 said:

DE could kill two birds with one stone...

 

Give Snipers the ability to punch through nullifier bubbles. Makes snipers have a broader use and 'balances' nullifier bubbles a bit. 

I wish this were that easy.

16 hours ago, F0rcem4x said:

Maybe, and only maybe, the sniper could get a boost against nullifiers. But I think it's just a matter of strategy. For instance, I did it with snipetron vandal, using magazine warp (10 shots magazine), so most of time I didn't have any problem. Also, I was using frost. If you get in the bubble of the nullifier before his bubble touches your bubble, your bubble will still be there and the nulifier will be an easy target from inside his bubble (if you are sneaky enough). But, if there are too many mobs, or there is a nullifier in combination with a bursa, your best bet is to abandon than extractor and go for another one. You don't want to get too risky and there are plenty of extractors for you.

 

It was a fun experience overall :)

Where is the problem? just use your automatic weapon or your melee to kill the Nullifier, is easy!  *sarcasm

Wait a sec... only Sniper Sortie?

Well just run. Like we all (that is why we hate Nullifiers, we must run because them)

16 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

1. weapons that are more dependant on accuracy are usually quite strong anyway. don't get me wrong, Sniper's could probably use a buff, but you'll always see more damage per-shot with something like the Dex Sybaris or Vectis prime than you will a Soma prime, it's DPS that matters. that said, I rifle alone can only do so much, the rest is down to the user, and the only way to get better at long range is with practice.

2. the fact that excavators don't scale like other objectives do is what makes Sortie excavation so tedious. and no, it wouldn't be "too easy" if they did scale, because even with scaled health it only takes about 5-10 seconds of exposure to tougher enemies like Corpus Techs and the thing will still get shredded. players would still have to actively defend the excavators as well as power them, but having them get nearly one shot by Bursas just isn't fair.

3. one of the most annoying bugs/features of an excavation. even worse when the spawn engine decides to give you ALL the Techs but no power carriers.

4. that's also a problem associated with nullifiers having a bubble that dies based on number of hits, rather than having a health system. on those occasions where we're trying to hit something other than the Nullifier, such as a Tech Eximus, they can fire a ton of shots at you, but you need a ton of shots to pop the bubble, and even more to actually kill the enemy in question. if they had an effective health system, snipers would be more effective as they could kill the bubble in a couple hits, as opposed to the 6 or so it normally takes.

5. yep, reloading snipers is a total nightmare, and Reload mods still don't always solve the problem, or might mean sacrificing a damage/elemental mod, thus making your rifle less effective.

Snipers are probably the worst primaries in the game, not suited to close range combat (which is about 95% of all engagements in this game), and not powerful enough against long-range targets. no having Punchthrough is also a serious downside, with the exception of the Snipetron family. but even then, the Punchthrough isn't great, the reloads are slow, and in the time it takes to kill one enemy, someone with a Dread or Rakta Cernos can kill 5.

I'm not suggesting snipers should literally one shot everything regardless of level, obviously, but innate Punchthrough and a damage buff that puts them on par with some of the Bows would be good enough. Bows would still be used, as they are silent and can be faster than a sniper.

#MakeSnipersGreatAgain.

I agree.

I have no problem with my Lanka, she can kill any high level enemy with a headshot btw

Lanka best Sniper ever!

 

[(XBOX)BOBIWAN86]

..... I had a group of mr20+(including a frost p and nova p - good players, not their fault) literally melt to out of revives by 200 cryotic in. I ended up soloing the remainder, on Inaros, with a normal Vulkar that has seen love. It wasn't hard. It was ever-loving tedious. I didn't 'beat' the mission, I outsurvived it. Ended up running around the map triggering extractors and running, knowing there was no way I was going to be able to defend them, using devour as needed. It took an HOUR. I've lost all enthusiasm for sorties as a result, as the reward for my efforts was once again, 25 cores I could have farmed 100 of in the same amount of time.

Again, it wasn't challenging, it was simply tedious. If not for the modifier really would have been quite simple. Oneshotting one enemy at a time when 50 or so corpus with a few nullies for good measure are staring the extractor down, does not really work.

Before you flame me as some noob, please consider it's actually far easier to solo the sortie with solo matchmaking than to solo it as the sole survivor of a squad. The spawns were insane. I made it out alive and successful, but it sure didn't feel like a win.

Edited September 10, 2016 by (XB1)BOBIWAN86

[Kaiser_Suoh]

1 hour ago, (XB1)BOBIWAN86 said:

..... I had a group of mr20+(including a frost p and nova p - good players, not their fault) literally melt to out of revives by 200 cryotic in. I ended up soloing the remainder, on Inaros, with a normal Vulkar that has seen love. It wasn't hard. It was ever-loving tedious. I didn't 'beat' the mission, I outsurvived it. Ended up running around the map triggering extractors and running, knowing there was no way I was going to be able to defend them, using devour as needed. It took an HOUR. I've lost all enthusiasm for sorties as a result, as the reward for my efforts was once again, 25 cores I could have farmed 100 of in the same amount of time.

Again, it wasn't challenging, it was simply tedious. If not for the modifier really would have been quite simple. Oneshotting one enemy at a time when 50 or so corpus with a few nullies for good measure are staring the extractor down, does not really work.

Before you flame me as some noob, please consider it's actually far easier to solo the sortie with solo matchmaking than to solo it as the sole survivor of a squad. The spawns were insane. I made it out alive and successful, but it sure didn't feel like a win.

I feel your pain bro. I dont play Corpus missions because Nullifiers. They are just tedious.

Nobody will say "noob" to you, because only Nullifier defenders say that.

They normally say "Use your automatic weapon" "just kill them with your melee" etc.

But in this case they cant, because that mission was a "only sniper" sortie.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Kaiser_Suoh