Does nobody else worry somewhat about this nemesis-like VIP system?

[AdunSaveMe]

Adding something akin to Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system sounds like a great idea. On paper.

You know why "an enemy that gets stronger if you fail to defeat it" works in Shadow of Mordor? Because half the bloody game was built around that mechanic, AND it isn't a game of numbers. Every enemy you fight in Shadow of Mordor is more or less on the same ground as every other enemy, they don't scale in levels like enemies do in Warframe, and even if it gets stronger there's always a way to defeat it without resorting to numbers. So you fail to beat this VIP, and then what does it do? It makes it harder to beat the next time. How does that make sense in any way whatsoever?

And then there's the part where you lose standing if you fail the mission. In any other game this might be fair, but in Warframe? Am I going to lose standing because I got spammed with ability-nullifying, bullet spongey, instagibbing, ultra cheese BS that generally comes with most new enemies?

I'm not seeing a plus side to this.

[Dualstar]

You dont have to initiate the mission if you dont think youll win.

[----Dante----]

the only thing i worry about are rewards.

 

[Arkvold]

Honestly, I'm not too keen about it either.

Losing standing and having the target become harder is just asking for people who fail on a target to give up on trying to kill it until it changes, and if all the targets become too hard to kill, they're just going to say 'screw it' and go back to grinding standing the old-fashioned way.  You're absolutely right that Warframe is a game of numbers - and this system may not work well with it unless it takes that into account.

Losing standing or having the target become more difficult.  One or the other, not both.

[Sziklamester]

If executed how DE add new systems then it will be a pain but until any attempt to scale the enemy armor and damage it just sounds articifally hardening a part of the game.

[EmptyDevil]

I'm not keen on nerfing everything that is perceive as challenging in the game. I would prefer for it to remain tough as advertised, We will have to wait and see in what way does it become tougher. Keep in mind, you're most likely going to be rewarded in a much better way than the typical cheese/tough minions you run into in common missions.

Now the thing i was surprised to see no threads about, was the rescuing/protecting VIPs system. Are we protecting/rescuing them from other Tenno? Are we just doing some variant of the typical Defense with an NPC objective?

[ClatterHD3]

They simply did it as an alternative for endgame ppl to occupy with something. So, if you're fighting like a lvl60 target, should be fairly easy to beat right? If you can't beat it, it will simply be more harder. Lets say, lvl75. But YOU'RE ENDGAME. People go around claiming that their weapon can oneshot a lvl 100. Lvl 75 shouldn't be difficult, right?

[vrdwrst2]

You don't have to do the syndicate assassinates.

*dismissive shrug*

[AdunSaveMe]

57 minutes ago, vrdwrst2 said:

You don't have to do the syndicate assassinates.

*dismissive shrug*

That's not really the point.

Just because you can not do a mechanic does not mean the mechanic can't be poorly designed.

[AdunSaveMe]

9 minutes ago, ClatterHD3 said:

They simply did it as an alternative for endgame ppl to occupy with something. So, if you're fighting like a lvl60 target, should be fairly easy to beat right? If you can't beat it, it will simply be more harder. Lets say, lvl75. But YOU'RE ENDGAME. People go around claiming that their weapon can oneshot a lvl 100. Lvl 75 shouldn't be difficult, right?

That's not the point either. Not everyone runs around with a weapon that can instagib level 100 enemies.

It's just silly to make something get stronger if you fail to defeat it. Thematically it's fine, but mechanically it's weird. You know what's gonna happen? The punishment of losing standing and making the target stronger, couple with the usual enemy design patterns (I want high health damage and I want it now, sort of thing) means that people won't do it unless they can cheese the utter buggery out of it, and that's all it'll be.

Edited September 17, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[[DE]Momaw]

Interested in the idea. What I worry about is that "more powerful" will mean "more damage", in a game where high level enemies are already prone to utterly destroying us if we aren't using highly survivable frames (or cheesing with invisibility). But we'll see once we know more about the system and specifically how it will work.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Momaw

[ashrah]

that concept is based  from shadow of mordor i am playing that game.....system is pretty nice.. u need to plan how u will do it...if u go rush u will fail most of time its really neat...

[TheBrightKing]

We will have to wait to see

 

I hope they are different in aspect lol

[SeaUrchins]

I can bet you overreact and that will be as cheesable as all the rest of the content.

[Katinka]

8 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

people won't do it unless they can cheese the utter buggery out of it, and that's all it'll be

This is pretty much how I expect it to end up.  If there is risk of losing Standing each time you fail and it's going to get tougher each time you fail, I'm going to be vetting which ones I do quite heavily from the outset.  When Nitain was first added and in demand I ran every alert I saw but now that I've got some stocked up I'm a lot more selective about which alerts I do and the only thing I stand to lose there is time!   Same applies to Sorties.  I used to run them every day but now I run them if they look like they wont be too bothersome/frustrating and again the only thing I stand to lose is the time invested if I quit without completing the last one.  A mission that threatens to take away more than just my time is one I'm going to think very carefully about doing especially if some bad luck, ill judgement or, dare I say, bug leads to me failing and having an even tougher time after that.  I don't expect to be playing them with loadouts I find fun to use but rather loadouts optimised to have minimal risk and maximum cheese.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Dualstar said:

You dont have to initiate the mission if you dont think youll win.

Until the syndicate you're allied with loses rep.

[Madway7]

Mainly depends on what DE's idea of "stronger" will be at the time.

[BansheePrime]

I dunno. Sounds like a trivial matter for Banshee. (inb4 ability immune)

Edited September 17, 2016 by maj.death

[BansheePrime]

-double post-

Edited September 17, 2016 by maj.death
double

[GreyEnneract]

34 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

That's not really the point. You don't have to go to Africa, but that doesn't make ebola any less terrible.

Just because you can not do a mechanic does not mean the mechanic can't be poorly designed.

You have one good point here about the busted enemy types we already have, but it stops there.

We don't know how the VIP will get stronger.

You have an entire week to beat the VIP before you lose standing, meaning that losing doesn't make you lose standing until you completely fail.

The VIP getting stronger after failing the first time does make sense. They'll be more prepared and gain experience.

Lastly, you failed to mention the "savior" alternative talked about in the devstream for those who can't handle VIP assassinations.

1/10 thread.

[Dualstar]

15 minutes ago, Madho said:

Until the syndicate you're allied with loses rep.

Go back and listen to what Steve said.

Steve clearly says that players have to initiate this quest.

And that you only lose standing once you fail this objective.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Dualstar

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Dualstar said:

Go back and listen to what Steve said.

Steve clearly says that players have to initiate this quest.

And that you only lose standing once you fail this objective.

Doesn't matter since it's hyped. People will just initiate it the first few times regardless of difficulty. Then, newer players with relatively poor gear will only then realize their mistake after a week later as they lose standing. There has to be at least an abort option.

[Dualstar]

1 minute ago, Madho said:

Doesn't matter since it's hyped. People will just initiate it the first few times regardless of difficulty. Then, newer players with relatively poor gear will only then realize their mistake after a week later as they lose standing. There has to be at least an abort option.

Steve also said the VIP targets will be scaled to your level (i assume in the same way how Conclave Rating affects boss levels) and you will be able to get friends to help out.

And players dont even have access to syndicates until MR3 anyway, and theres the possibility that youll only be able to take theese missions once you reach the top rank.

[kaliazane]

They mentioned word weekly during stream, didn't they. Something tells me it will end up being 1 short weekly missions if you dont fail to kill them on first try.

[Kuestenjung]

I am worried about it that it will suffer the same destiny like almost every new mechanic. It will probably only be interesting the first few times and after that...well.