Does nobody else worry somewhat about this nemesis-like VIP system?

[Zeiss17]

That, my friend, is cheese. And that exactly proves my point.

[Gelkor]

18 minutes ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

That, my friend, is cheese. And that exactly proves my point.

But everyone in game tells me Ivara is weak and Tonkor is better than Artemis bow. :P

Also it just takes 5 seconds longer with Braton Prime.  Double jump up, aim glide down on the back weak point.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Gelkor

[Hypernaut1]

I hate the "make it easy for me" mentality. 

 

[SenorClipClop]

19 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Spoiler

 

Adding something akin to Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system sounds like a great idea. On paper.

You know why "an enemy that gets stronger if you fail to defeat it" works in Shadow of Mordor? Because half the bloody game was built around that mechanic, AND it isn't a game of numbers. Every enemy you fight in Shadow of Mordor is more or less on the same ground as every other enemy, they don't scale in levels like enemies do in Warframe, and even if it gets stronger there's always a way to defeat it without resorting to numbers. So you fail to beat this VIP, and then what does it do? It makes it harder to beat the next time. How does that make sense in any way whatsoever?

And then there's the part where you lose standing if you fail the mission. In any other game this might be fair, but in Warframe? Am I going to lose standing because I got spammed with ability-nullifying, bullet spongey, instagibbing, ultra cheese BS that generally comes with most new enemies?

I'm not seeing a plus side to this.

 

 

Actually, I think this new system as described by DE is something the game will really benefit from. Here are a few things to keep in mind:

• Warframe as a game is very stat-dependant, but there's also a lot of room for personal skill (just few places in game where skill is truly needed). The VIP will be tuned to a Tenno's level. If implemented correctly, a Tenno's VIP will be just as strong against them whether they are a lowly noob or a Pokedex-complete veteran. (This will be far more engaging than the current equivalent, a level 40 Shadow Stalker showing up and getting immediately bursted down by any weapon that's been Forma'd.) This means a Tenno's skill will have to come out in the fight. Even if that skill is as simple as "hitting the target while not getting hit".
• If you f*ck up and lose to the VIP, you have options: git gud, give up and lose Standing, or beg your fellow Tenno to help you take down your rival.
• Making the enemy harder if it defeats you creates an element that many in the WF community are hungry for: stakes. Right now, the worst of downsides in failing at something in Warframe is not getting the items you collected during the mission. Which sucks, but can be remedied by just running another mission. With the VIP system, a Tenno's failure will have consequences. Not irreversible ones (you can always get more Standing), but ones that still have a negative impact on the player beyond the scope of a single mission. This has the opportunity to add an element of challenge and to a system that up until now has been yet another farming quest in the game. The potential to lose Standing (without spending it) will make the Syndicate system a little more interesting.
• Could you imagine how flat this new system would fall if it didn't offer a challenge? If instead it was "keep trying 'til you get the bad guy and get a reward" or "Oh, was that meanie too hard? Let's make it easier for you". It would not go well.

[EmptyDevil]

4 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Actually, I think this new system as described by DE is something the game will really benefit from. Here are a few things to keep in mind:

• Warframe as a game is very stat-dependant, but there's also a lot of room for personal skill (just few places in game where skill is truly needed). The VIP will be tuned to a Tenno's level. If implemented correctly, a Tenno's VIP will be just as strong against them whether they are a lowly noob or a Pokedex-complete veteran. (This will be far more engaging than the current equivalent, a level 40 Shadow Stalker showing up and getting immediately bursted down by any weapon that's been Forma'd.) This means a Tenno's skill will have to come out in the fight. Even if that skill is as simple as "hitting the target while not getting hit".
• If you f*ck up and lose to the VIP, you have options: git gud, give up and lose Standing, or beg your fellow Tenno to help you take down your rival.
• Making the enemy harder if it defeats you creates an element that many in the WF community are hungry for: stakes. Right now, the worst of downsides in failing at something in Warframe is not getting the items you collected during the mission. Which sucks, but can be remedied by just running another mission. With the VIP system, a Tenno's failure will have consequences. Not irreversible ones (you can always get more Standing), but ones that still have a negative impact on the player beyond the scope of a single mission. This has the opportunity to add an element of challenge and to a system that up until now has been yet another farming quest in the game. The potential to lose Standing (without spending it) will make the Syndicate system a little more interesting.
• Could you imagine how flat this new system would fall if it didn't offer a challenge? If instead it was "keep trying 'til you get the bad guy and get a reward" or "Oh, was that meanie too hard? Let's make it easier for you". It would not go well.

This.

[Sovyul]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

Actually, I think this new system as described by DE is something the game will really benefit from. Here are a few things to keep in mind:

• Warframe as a game is very stat-dependant, but there's also a lot of room for personal skill (just few places in game where skill is truly needed). The VIP will be tuned to a Tenno's level. If implemented correctly, a Tenno's VIP will be just as strong against them whether they are a lowly noob or a Pokedex-complete veteran. (This will be far more engaging than the current equivalent, a level 40 Shadow Stalker showing up and getting immediately bursted down by any weapon that's been Forma'd.) This means a Tenno's skill will have to come out in the fight. Even if that skill is as simple as "hitting the target while not getting hit".
• If you f*ck up and lose to the VIP, you have options: git gud, give up and lose Standing, or beg your fellow Tenno to help you take down your rival.
• Making the enemy harder if it defeats you creates an element that many in the WF community are hungry for: stakes. Right now, the worst of downsides in failing at something in Warframe is not getting the items you collected during the mission. Which sucks, but can be remedied by just running another mission. With the VIP system, a Tenno's failure will have consequences. Not irreversible ones (you can always get more Standing), but ones that still have a negative impact on the player beyond the scope of a single mission. This has the opportunity to add an element of challenge and to a system that up until now has been yet another farming quest in the game. The potential to lose Standing (without spending it) will make the Syndicate system a little more interesting.
• Could you imagine how flat this new system would fall if it didn't offer a challenge? If instead it was "keep trying 'til you get the bad guy and get a reward" or "Oh, was that meanie too hard? Let's make it easier for you". It would not go well.

 

Well said!

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well the answer is fairly simple: PREPARE.

if you're going to go up against a tough target, you're not gonna bring MR fodder, you're gonna bring your best. I want these enemies to be new and interesting, and tough as well. but even if they tick all those boxes, the Meta weapons will still kill them easily, pretty sure nothing they pit us up against can withstand both barrels of a Tigris Prime.

it'll likely end up with them being no harder than any of the starchart bosses; once you learn their attack patterns and strategies, they'll be easy to beat. even if DE made them Nullifying, super-high Armored Eximus units with overpowered guns, we would still find a way.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

It will not work. For several years now in warframe I only died on sortie 3 bosses, specifically broken ones. So what should I expect, basically broken unplayable mission with nullifier that kills tankiest frame with instant unavoidable attack? 

[TheVeiledScion]

I think I'd actually rather have the Syndicates each have distinct special missions that make sense. So, Red Veil can do the assassinations (make them high risk for all I care, as long as it works and they aren't just Exterminates or Boss fights), but the others should have something else. Like, Steel Meridian Defense or Perrin Sequence Spy or Suda Excavations, for example. And, I think they should have some sort of unique rewards with them. I don't need to play another mission type that just rewards the same sort of stuff.

[RoninJed]

Before syndicates came out DE said the way you get marked by them and how they send an attack squad after you would be like the nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor. I don't think it ended up being like that at all so I'm willing to wait and see what it's like in game before worrying about it.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

On ‎09‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 5:50 PM, Dante123pl said:

the only thing i worry about are rewards.

This is the bit I'm curious about.

If the rewards are similar to sorties...well then this'll be just another mission type I probably won't bother to play.

 

[Gr33hn]

Seeing how DE has mastered the art of making enemies unfun I must say I am a bit worried as well. 

 

[Babellon]

Wait you mean they're introducing a system where you have to plan and prepare,  where you are penalized for failure and poor gameplay/management? I missed the information apparently but awesome DE! Please don't tear it down to appease the masses. I look forward to building my new computer and finally playing something that can bite back a little bit. 

[fakeBOSHI]

I only worry how the actual fight will go.

If it's just going to be: avoid all enemies in between u and the vip, enter a room with a vip, same old cinematic intro, shoot at the vip for x minutes, run away...then I'll pass.

Assassination missions should feel like assassinations. It should require:

1.a planning phase, visually mapping terrain and several possible entry points/escape routes. These will be permanently marked when the player explores them. 

2. Involve the actual fight in a more cinematic way (ex grineer vip is inspecting several galleon systems in a randomized way). Some check points should be heavily guarded and not ideal for engagement less you face overwhelming fire power.

3. The conditions of the fight should change. Your assassination mission might be leaked resulting in heightened security that triggers the vip to escape along 1 of several different routes.

4.The player must set up a diversion to aid in the escape, this may be done before OR after assassination. If before, the player sabotages a critical life support system that is timed to explode upon vip death. If after, the player must hack a security system that reports the player being elsewhere on the map.

5. After the assassination has taken place, several pre-planned escape routes are closed randomly or heavily guarded to make the player panic on how to get out. Here good planning pays off.

6. The rewards should be significant. In addition to a huge standing bonus, the player should be recognized for having completed the mission with a syndicate specific ornate badge/medal.

[Hypernaut1]

19 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

This.

This

[----Dante----]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

This is the bit I'm curious about.

If the rewards are similar to sorties...well then this'll be just another mission type I probably won't bother to play.

 

exactly.