Outdated weapon types - which would you improve?

[PerishedFraud]

All I'm seeing these days when it comes to weak and "rusted" weapons is machetes, tbh. Meanwhile, there's way more than that that has paled over the years.  These are the weapon types that lack any gate to endgame.

Which do you think needs priority for an upgrade? Hopefully not machetes lol.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11283761 - A poll for it.

The list:

Glaives: Their throws aside, glaives lack power, which isn't their only problem. Hitting more than one enemy is a problem. Glaive mods take too much space while sacrificing power. Glaives also throw pretty funky when equipped.

Non-Grenade Launchers: Launchers like Miter and Ogris also lack in power, especially for how they are used. Opticor was released as a more powerful launcher...but it plays like a sniper.

~Throwers: We only have two such weapons, Ignis and Embolist. They are among the ultimate weapons to take for low level content and looting containers. However, they become literally useless against high level enemies aside from status procs. Incredibly weak.

Semi-Auto Pistols: Generally weaker than sniper pistols and auto pistols in every incarnation.

Shotgun Secondaries: The Brakk is noticeably stronger than some other entries here, but it doesn't quite get there. Let's not even mention the damn broncos and their worthless prime.

Daggers: Daggers are home to some of warframe's best utility purposes, be it stealth, healing, instakill synergy or for a good while, coptering ( i will miss you, ceramic dagger). Daggers are actually okay weapons if you use pointed wind, but they usually have stats so low that you simply cannot build anything proper without forsaking customization. Even Rakta DD with its utility overshield procs becomes quite weak as a weapon if you build for them.

Dual Daggers: Okay. They're like single daggers in the sense that they retain horrible stats, but they lack a stance to fix that, and lack utility, while being incredibly badass to use. I cry everytime.

Machetes: Weak stats. Probably worst stance in the game. Sigh.

Sparring: Lacks a proper stance, but at least better than machetes. Weapons have crit potential which makes them better than alot of things here, but they are paired with horrible, horrible stats that make them bad weapons even with crits. Probably the category with least existing weapons in the game, while being very nice to use like dual daggers. So sad.

Nunchaku: Meh describes these weapons perfectly. Stuck in a mid-game state of limbo due to sheer lack of power.

Djinn, Dethcube: Two bonus contestants, being sentinels and not weapons. These things. THESE THINGS. I want to use them, but why??? Outclassed by other sentinels completely.

 

I may have missed something, I have my eyes on burst-fire rifles but I haven't maxed one yet to see how it compares.

Personally I'd make a new sparring weapon, its alot of wasted potential.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by BeeOverlord

[Madame_Werewolf]

Glaive. This historical weapon needs more love. And dual daggers, too.

[PerishedFraud]

The annoying thing about Glaives is that they even released a very cool new stance, but didn't buff the weapons or give us a worthy new one. Glaive prime also has a massive upgrade of....bonus attack speed and nothing else? Please. Pff.

Dual Daggers just make me sad though. They're so cool and smooth to use but you can't kill with them.

Edited September 23, 2016 by BeeOverlord

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Stradavar. 

 

[PerishedFraud]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ghinellil said:

Stradavar. 

 

That's just one weapon. There are others of its type that do scale into endgame.  This is on a much broader scale - about weapon types where there is no good option.

 

That said, I do share your opinion. Stradavar is underwhelming.

Edited September 23, 2016 by BeeOverlord

[Bronjun]

Buff the damn Bronco Prime (And the dual version too)! Make Vasto Prime closer to Lex Prime! Completely rework dual daggers and machetes pls. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Bronjun

[MillbrookWest]

I recently started using dual daggers... and boy are they crap.

Also, the logic behind the stats just confuse me.

Take the Fang Prime. For a weapon that looks like mini scimitars, you'd expects slash damage, but it has no slash damage. Instead it functions more like a Sai from its high puncture stats.

Speaking of Sai, there's also the Okina. From the thinness of the blade, you'd expect puncture wounds. But it deals more slash damage.

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was a Hammer that was all 'slash' damage, and no 'impact' damage... Because that totally not what axes are for -_-

Edited September 23, 2016 by MillbrookWest

[PerishedFraud]

1 minute ago, MillbrookWest said:

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was a Hammer that was all 'slash' damage, and no 'impact' damage... Because that totally not what axes are for -_-

 

Lol... They're gonna make it eventually, you know. Because of the stance. 

[Glitch_Kitten]

Launchers honestly

[Duduminador]

Sparring, hands down...

... and that's not just because you get to kick
... neither because the only good use of it is the ground pummel finisher.

[Ghost_1302]

Dual daggers please.

[Mastikator2]

I'd add a secondary fire mode to Ogris, one that tracks the direction of your aim and mimics the Bombard.

I'd upgrade the Supra by increasing the projectiles to at least 3x speed and have the aim increase when you aim (like phage), and revert when you don't.

I'd remove spool up from the Gorgon series and Supra, they instead instantly start at full speed. I'd also increase rate of fire by ~25% and make the magazine carry the entire ammo pool. And also increase the ammo pool to ~800.

I'd nerf the Tonkor so that it deals full self damage and that all self damage always ignores any invulnerability or damage reduction you have (except armor/bonus EHP).

I'd increase the range of the Flux Rifle to infinity and make it hitscan.

I'd increase the attack rate of Venka and Ripkas by ~50%

[TESTAMENTEXE]

Honestly, this poll made mefeel unfair tbh. Like... all these weapons desperately need buffs (besides ignis if you make it the right way)

[-Mandachordian-Tenno-]

hi, how is Ignis and Embolist similar and in the category as 'throwers?
dont you think Embolist is a beam weapon?


If anything, Glaive type weaponry should be expanded upon.

Edited September 23, 2016 by -Mandalorian-Tenno-
I have Amnesia, Embolist is a 'thrower

[(PSN)EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

I know scythes got a buff a while ago, but we need one instead of more heavy weapons. I know everyone wanted galatine prime for ages, but when it came I havent even found the compulsion to farm it, because I have war and fragor prime(even though G prime is really powerful)

I was so hoping for a new scythe and stance for Nekros..

Glaives definitely need some help too.

I would like a bunch of old weapons improved too, though they did this a little with syndicate melees. All prime weapons should stay sortie viable imo. I want to use my old prime stuff, and it would make the prime vault releases much more lucrative if the old weapons were actually worth using still..

[PerishedFraud]

26 minutes ago, -Mandalorian-Tenno- said:

hi, how is Ignis and Embolist similar and in the category as 'throwers?
dont you think Embolist is a beam weapon?

Well see, a beam type weapon is like synapse or quanta or even amprex, flux, etc.

Ignis and embolist use massive beam projectiles along with punchthrough to attack in a wide cone and attack multiple enemies.

While they are *technically* beam weapons, they are kinda a separate category.

Think of like like launchers being both charge-up weapons and grenade weapons.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 hour ago, BeeOverlord said:

The list:

Non-Grenade Launchers: Launchers like Miter and Ogris also lack in power, especially for how they are used. Opticor was released as a more powerful launcher...but it plays like a sniper.

~Throwers: We only have two such weapons, Ignis and Embolist. They are among the ultimate weapons to take for low level content and looting containers. However, they become literally useless against high level enemies aside from status procs. Incredibly weak.

Semi-Auto Pistols: Generally weaker than sniper pistols and auto pistols in every incarnation.

Pistol Secondaries: The Brakk is noticeably stronger than some other entries here, but it doesn't quite get there. Let's not even mention the damn broncos and their worthless prime.

Daggers: Daggers are home to some of warframe's best utility purposes, be it stealth, healing, instakill synergy or for a good while, coptering ( i will miss you, ceramic dagger). Daggers are actually okay weapons if you use pointed wind, but they usually have stats so low that you simply cannot build anything proper without forsaking customization. Even Rakta DD with its utility overshield procs becomes quite weak as a weapon if you build for them.

Dual Daggers: Okay. They're like single daggers in the sense that they retain horrible stats, but they lack a stance to fix that, and lack utility, while being incredibly badass to use. I cry everytime.

Machetes: Weak stats. Probably worst stance in the game. Sigh.

Nunchaku: Meh describes these weapons perfectly. Stuck in a mid-game state of limbo due to sheer lack of power.

I may have missed something, I have my eyes on burst-fire rifles but I haven't maxed one yet to see how it compares.

#1: Agreed

#2: maybe you mean continuous weapons.

#3: like what? Need example

#4: Agreed

#5: well, not all of them, we have good dagger, like karyst, but the way i see it, daggers should have crit level that the scindo/fragor p/heliocor have, while those heavies should have only rely on pure damage non-crits. Like daikyu...

#6: Agreed

#7: We need more of these weapon variants, the only machetes available in this game are machete & machete wraith. But i agree with the rest.

#8: Agreed

[PerishedFraud]

Nah. Compare any continuous weapon to ignis and embolist and you will see the difference. Alot more aoe. Innate punchthrough. Less range. 

It just uses the continuous engine, if you will.

 

Semi-auto examples: vastos, akjagara, boltos are what comes to mind first.

 

Also, pistol secondaries>shotgun secondaries.

Idk how i wrote that by mistake.

Edited September 23, 2016 by BeeOverlord

[Sziklamester]

All types of weapons needs some batch up because we need some new balance when the possible dmg 3.0 comes and we don't know yet if DE will or can do it right or mess up everything. If the base stats of the weapons improves a bit and not add more disadvantages to them like how DE treat every weapon despite it is already bad or god like.

Daggers need more speed and little bit more damage maybe some improvements in their critical and status for crit/status builds.

Throwing weapons like kunai and spira - hikou need a little bit more accuracy and maybe some extra ammo up to 300 instead of 210

I see the same treatement for semi auto and auto pistols because a lot of dual secondaries eats up a lot of ammo. An aklato is maybe not but it could be fast enough to eat ammo and the same amount of ammo like lato uses is just laughable and still not talking about the furis family or akzani or akstilleto. Weapons like nukor is just bad because or low critical or low status and there is no really purpose to use it. Others like lex need some speed up and a smartly built in recoil reduction because the aiming with these is teribble.

Tysis mostly okay maybe needs a little bit more on damage part but other wise it is a nice weapon.

Orthos and polearms generally need some more love because the tonbo and orthos prime mostly outclass all others except jat and serro.

Glaive and Kestrel is a good example how a weapon class can be obsolete in this new gameplay. Those weapons cannot go through nullies shield like most other stuffs and does very low damage and their attack animation is mostly slow and need to sacrifice damage to utility to be more useful.

Old weapons need a general stat up and additional extras which makes these weapons more unique.

Heavy weapons is so so because their attack speed is low and you cannot really use against enemies more than infested but chargers can hit you before you can hit them and does damages on shield. Too low the attack speed and range and overall the heavy blades faster and does more damage. 

Bows mostly fine the only thing is what I wish to them more crit and maybe more mods to boost their stats wisely. Even more bows for different elemental damage and one for all around bow with fast attack speed. (almost like mk1 paris does but with better damage)

Snipers need to be lethal otherwise their role is totally messed up because there is no real place to use them more effectively and at least need a mission type where this is the duty to eliminate boss units with snipers.

 

Braton and burston family need more weapons in it and need some hybrid weapon from choose. Braton need a clear damage boost and a little more crit and status and that is fine mostly burston is almost okay just need some more status or crit.

Stradavar is another good example for bad design but good concept. Damage boost and more critical or status and more ammo pool or more magazine capacity. 

Aegis is another type of weapon which needs more damage reduction with shield block and more damage for instance with more status or critical. Another stuff what needs is more weapons in this category.

The old dual swords need more balance because those are mostly out to date and beginner weapons but those should be at least in pre high levels and higher levels.

One handed swords like mire need more damage and then it is a fine one handed and weapons like plasma sword need a massive speed and status boost to be viable other hand it is an absolute garbage weapon and not better than mastery foddering.

It deserves also a better look and a dual variant aswell.

 

The list can goes on and I can personalise which weapon what needs mostly to be viable but that is a long time to collect all these stats. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Sziklamester

[PerishedFraud]

1 minute ago, Sziklamester said:

All types of weapons needs some batch up because we need some new balance when the possible dmg 3.0 comes and we don't know yet if DE will or can do it right or mess up everything. If the base stats of the weapons improves a bit and not add more disadvantages to them like how DE treat every weapon despite it is already bad or god like.

Daggers need more speed and little bit more damage maybe some improvements in their critical and status for crit/status builds.

Throwing weapons need a little bit more accuracy and maybe some extra ammo up to 300 instead of 210

I see the same treatement for semi auto and auto pistols because a lot of dual secondaries eats up a lot of ammo. An aklato is maybe not but it could be fast enough to eat ammo and the same amount of ammo like lato uses is just laughable and still not talking about the furis family or akzani or akstilleto. Weapons like nukor is just bad because or low critical or low status and there is no really purpose to use it. Others like lex need some speed up and a smartly built in recoil reduction because the aiming with these is teribble.

Tysis mostly okay maybe needs a little bit more on damage part but other wise it is a nice weapon.

Orthos and polearms generally need some more love because the tonbo and orthos prime mostly outclass all others except jat and serro.

Glaive and Kestrel is a good example how a weapon class can be obsolete in this new gameplay. Those weapons cannot go through nullies shield like most other stuffs and does very low damage and their attack animation is mostly slow and need to sacrifice damage to utility to be more useful.

Old weapons need a general stat up and additional extras which makes these weapons more unique.

Heavy weapons is so so because their attack speed is low and you cannot really use against enemies more than infested but chargers can hit you before you can hit them and does damages on shield. Too low the attack speed and range and overall the heavy blades faster and does more damage. 

Bows mostly fine the only thing is what I wish to them more crit and maybe more mods to boost their stats wisely. Even more bows for different elemental damage and one for all around bow with fast attack speed. (almost like mk1 paris does but with better damage)

Snipers need to be lethal otherwise their role is totally messed up because there is no real place to use them more effectively and at least need a mission type where this is the duty to eliminate boss units with snipers.

 

Braton and burston family need more weapons in it and need some hybrid weapon from choose. Braton need a clear damage boost and a little more crit and status and that is fine mostly burston is almost okay just need some more status or crit.

Stradavar is another good example for bad design but good concept. Damage boost and more critical or status and more ammo pool or more magazine capacity. 

Aegis is another type of weapon which needs more damage reduction with shield block and more damage for instance with more status or critical. Another stuff what needs is more weapons in this category.

The old dual swords need more balance because those are mostly out to date and beginner weapons but those should be at least in pre high levels and higher levels.

One handed swords like mire need more damage and then it is a fine one handed and weapons like plasma sword need a massive speed and status boost to be viable other hand it is an absolute garbage weapon and not better than mastery foddering.

It deserves also a better look and a dual variant aswell.

 

The list can goes on and I can personalise which weapon what needs mostly to be viable but that is a long time to collect all these stats. 

What a huge post about an entirely irrelevant issue...

Most of it is true too, sadly.

But this thread isn't about stale weapons, rather stale whole weapon types.

 

[kaliazane]

I would improve basically all weapons that can shoot, since they all are terrible compared to melee weapons.

[Kothophed]

Buff Panthera please!  Interesting mechanics, no usable stat.

[DeFragMe]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

#1: Agreed

#2: maybe you mean continuous weapons.

#3: like what? Need example

#4: Agreed

#5: well, not all of them, we have good dagger, like karyst, but the way i see it, daggers should have crit level that the scindo/fragor p/heliocor have, while those heavies should have only rely on pure damage non-crits. Like daikyu...

#6: Agreed

#7: We need more of these weapon variants, the only machetes available in this game are machete & machete wraith. But i agree with the rest.

#8: Agreed

to nr.7 .. isnt prova and nami solo a machette too in warframe?^^

Edited September 23, 2016 by DeFragMe

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Glaives: Their throws aside, glaives lack power, which isn't their only problem. Hitting more than one enemy is a problem. Glaive mods take too much space while sacrificing power. Glaives also throw pretty funky when equipped.

can totally agree here, the re-introduction of charge attacks totally ruined Glaives; they take far too long to throw now. they should never have been given a charge attack as they already have the throwing utility. they're also very dependant on precision, and Glaives aren't the easiest thing to master.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Non-Grenade Launchers: Launchers like Miter and Ogris also lack in power, especially for how they are used. Opticor was released as a more powerful launcher...but it plays like a sniper.

totally agree. the recent nerf to explosive weapons that prevents them getting headshots was designed for the Tonkor, but ended up affecting ALL launchers. a mistake on DE's part.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

~Throwers: We only have two such weapons, Ignis and Embolist. They are among the ultimate weapons to take for low level content and looting containers. However, they become literally useless against high level enemies aside from status procs. Incredibly weak

the Embolist is shoddy due to it's miniscule effective range; there are literally Melee weapons, like Orthos Prime with Primed reach that can reach further than the Embolist. I still use the Ignis in some Sorties and it actually holds up against infested, but I wouldn't bring it against other factions.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Semi-Auto Pistols: Generally weaker than sniper pistols and auto pistols in every incarnation.

Auto pistols obviously have higher DPS. guns like the Lato and Vasto Prime can't compete with the likes of the Lex Prime and Vaykor Marelok.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Shotgun Secondaries: The Brakk is noticeably stronger than some other entries here, but it doesn't quite get there. Let's not even mention the damn broncos and their worthless prime.

yes, let's not, but I'll still mention the Pyrana, a sweet-looking pistol that does hardly anything in terms of damage, but I think the most laughable is the Twin Kohmak. no damage upgrade, no extra crit/status, just twice the ammo to waste. Prisma/Mara/Wraith Kohmak is the weapons last chance to be anywhere close to viable.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Daggers: Daggers are home to some of warframe's best utility purposes, be it stealth, healing, instakill synergy or for a good while, coptering ( i will miss you, ceramic dagger). Daggers are actually okay weapons if you use pointed wind, but they usually have stats so low that you simply cannot build anything proper without forsaking customization. Even Rakta DD with its utility overshield procs becomes quite weak as a weapon if you build for them.

I still use them occasionally, but what doesn't make sense to me is why they aren't faster. a single knife/Dagger is one of the fastest close quarter melee weapons you can get. no Sword or hammer should be faster than a knife, the downsides are supposed to be lower damage and minimal reach. being space Ninjas, one would have though a Tenno could get off multiple Dagger cuts in the blink of an eye, but no.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Dual Daggers: Okay. They're like single daggers in the sense that they retain horrible stats, but they lack a stance to fix that, and lack utility, while being incredibly badass to use. I cry everytime.

the Okinas rekindled my enjoyment of Dual Daggers, but they need a buff.

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Machetes: Weak stats. Probably worst stance in the game. Sigh.

while I know many Tenno, myself included, tend to harp on about Machetes, it's because they really are the worst weapons in the game, yet the Machete Wraith is one of my favourite looking blades in the game (and the only Machete that can handle content past level 20.) we SERIOUSLY need a new and more interesting Stance for them, and a MAJOR buff, but DE keep sweeping it under the rug. I know there are plenty other issues with the game, but every time there's a weapon buff/nerf, I just think "missed Machetes again, huh? sigh..."

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

Nunchaku: Meh describes these weapons perfectly. Stuck in a mid-game state of limbo due to sheer lack of power.

speaking of Limbo... he's supposed to be the next frame getting looked at after Ash (hopefully). but regarding Nunchucks, I found a corrosive build with Primed Fury and Shattering Impact is OK for close range armour shredding. other than that, their only advantage is speed, if we could see that kind of speed on Daggers, that would be great.

honourable mentions;

Snipers: inferior to Bows in just about every aspect, serious buff in the form of more damage and Punchthrough needed.

Gunblades; totally badass in appearance and concept, but lacking in game. Sarpa is worse than the Redeemer for me, I don't even know what the "gun" part is; is it a rifle? an SMG? an Oversized Pistol? also, it would be way easier to shoot them if they let you do it by pressing Alt Fire rather than making you charge an attack; sick of doing a melee when I want to hit things from afar without switching weapon.

Sparring: stances are kinda meh, damage is kinda meh, but at least they have speed. again, WHERE is this speed for daggers?

a lot of improvements are needed...

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by (PS4)robotwars7

[LordOfScrugging]

imo, Pickaxes (scythes) need some looking into. They are slow like a heavy, but weren't touched in the heavy weapon buff. and they lack range. the stances are meh.