Self damage on some primary weapons

[Sword_Singer]

Self damage is constantly making the weapon's that have it less appealing, for example take the Ogris, it has a fantastic mod called Nightwatch napalm which makes it interesting to use, but becomes more so useless when a infested slug decides to just be in the way of the projectile. I'm not about to say that all radius weapons shouldn't do self damage (like the tonkor -_-), but maybe introduce a mod that greatly lowers it, this will make those weapons more enjoyable and common in the community because as current it is just used a mastery fodder and just for looks, the weapons are amazing themselves but this one downfall completely ruins them. Side note, how is it fair the most damaging radius based weapon the Tonkor is still allowed, it doesn't make much sense to have a weapon that can deal 70k+ damage and not even scratch yourself.

Maybe a mods like *reduces self damage by 80%* or something like that.

[Madway7]

8 minutes ago, Sword_Singer said:

maybe introduce a mod that greatly lowers it, this will make those weapons more enjoyable and common in the community because as current it is just used a mastery fodder and just for looks, the weapons are amazing themselves but this one downfall completely ruins them. Side note, how is it fair the most damaging radius based weapon the Tonkor is still allowed, it doesn't make much sense to have a weapon that can deal 70k+ damage and not even scratch yourself.

Maybe a mods like *reduces self damage by 80%* or something like that.

Seems like it would just be a mandatory mod on them and a band aid at that.

I believe Bombards and Napalms on the enemies side receive no self damage from using those weapons so why should we?

Edited October 1, 2016 by Madway7

[KiloFoxx]

9 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Seems like it would just be a mandatory mod on them and a band aid at that.

I believe Bombards and Napalms on the enemies side receive no self damage from using those weapons so why should we?

IMO I think the self-damage is used to help balance the weapons personally, such as the Penta being super-strong, but if you're not careful you can destroy yourself with it

 

The Bombards and Napalms taking no damage from firing them Point-Blank I think IS some bullcrap though, and it Should be fixed so that they DO take self-damage, and their AI modded accordingly so that they rarely fire point-blank

Edited October 1, 2016 by KiloFoxx

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

4 minutes ago, KiloFoxx said:

IMO I think the self-damage is used to help balance the weapons personally, such as the Penta being super-strong, but if you're not careful you can destroy yourself with it

 

The Bombards and Napalms taking no damage from firing them Point-Blank I think IS some bullcrap though, and it chould be fixed so that they DO take self-damage, and their AI modded accordingly so that they rarely fire point-blank

I agree with this

[Sword_Singer]

6 minutes ago, KiloFoxx said:

IMO I think the self-damage is used to help balance the weapons personally, such as the Penta being super-strong, but if you're not careful you can destroy yourself with it

 

The Bombards and Napalms taking no damage from firing them Point-Blank I think IS some bullcrap though, and it chould be fixed so that they DO take self-damage, and their AI modded accordingly so that they rarely fire point-blank

True but completely wiping yourself is a little harsh i think.

[Sword_Singer]

16 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Seems like it would just be a mandatory mod on them and a band aid at that.

I believe Bombards and Napalms on the enemies side receive no self damage from using those weapons so why should we?

I know this is about primary weapons but if we are talking about patching what about body count, in my eyes its a bit of a mandatory mod to get anywhere with melee in a higher level mission.
But you make a good point.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Sword_Singer

[Sintag]

I've been considering several ideas for balancing out self damage so you're still punished for being an idiot with the bombs, but you won't instantly wipe yourself.

 

My idea is simple.  Self da age will never kill, but will instead leave you at one hp when it would normally kill you.  Also, bombs should pass through teammates, unless they are sticky or have Adhesive Blast on them.

[--Q--uaint]

52 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

I believe Bombards and Napalms on the enemies side receive no self damage from using those weapons so why should we?

I believe Bombards and definitely Napalms take self-damage from their own weapons.

The damage they deal is just insignificant compared to their EHP that you never really notice it.

50 minutes ago, KiloFoxx said:

IMO I think the self-damage is used to help balance the weapons personally

Ogris is bad, and would still be bad if it had self damage.

51 minutes ago, KiloFoxx said:

The Bombards and Napalms taking no damage from firing them Point-Blank I think IS some bullcrap though, and it Should be fixed so that they DO take self-damage, and their AI modded accordingly so that they rarely fire point-blank

Napalms definitely have self-damage; they even set themselves on fire. I'm pretty sure I've seen Bombards knock themselves down before.

The problem is that their damage is waaaay less than their EHP.

[Sword_Singer]

Even with a fully spec'd Chroma tank i can still down myself with one - two shot from my penta.

[Madway7]

1 hour ago, KiloFoxx said:

IMO I think the self-damage is used to help balance the weapons personally, such as the Penta being super-strong, but if you're not careful you can destroy yourself with it

 

I would agree if the self damage was the only downside.

But not only do they have self damage (being one of the worst downside possible), you also have low accuracy because of their flight speeds to deal with, while moving (and sometimes in general) the grenades of the Penta tend to fly off in another direction (either way to the left of the entire redicle or sllightly to the right depending on how you're moving) leading to more issues. Also the bouncing... 

On the Ogris I like the idea of 100 accuracy and I do plan to use the weapon soon, but I imagine the flight speed plays the same factor aswell.

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by Madway7

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

The first time you Kulstar yourself in the face it's funny.  The fourth time it's really annoying.

[-Costi-]

Idea: get damage only from base damage of weapon 

Tonkor has a passive to reduce the base dmg received by 75%(90%?)

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

21 hours ago, Sword_Singer said:

True but completely wiping yourself is a little harsh i think.

Homing explosives from Bombards with no adverse damage to them if their missiles end up prematurely detonating in front of them? Yeah, that's not bullS#&$.

[(PSN)puritan643]

Make the self damage not scale w/ mods, something around 200 - 300 damage would be much more manageable than 8000 - 10000.

[Sloan441]

My opinion is these weapons should function exactly as real grenade projector weapons do: they should have a minimum arming distance (so you don't blow yourself up).

That distance would be determined by actual game distances and balance objectives, but that's how they really work and how they should work in WF. So, if your target is closer than the arming distance, then it should only take the impact damage of the projectile (assuming you hit it), not the explosive AoE effect.

[NinjaZeku]

On 1.10.2016 at 4:11 PM, KiloFoxx said:

IMO I think the self-damage is used to help balance the weapons personally,
such as the Penta being super-strong, but if you're not careful you can destroy yourself with it

Penta is love Penta is life but it - along with e.g. Ogris - is not really stronger than Tonkor / Simulor / Staticor etc,
we now have a bunch of AoE weapons that skip that "balancing penalty" so I say bring the old stuff up to their level.

If constant point blank Ogris / Penta shots would be too OP (even though that's totally possible now with Defy / Assimilate) for some reason,
dunno, maybe pull a reverse Shotgun damage falloff and reduce the damage if you're caught in the explosion radius?

[Fansay]

On 02/10/2016 at 0:07 AM, Madway7 said:

Seems like it would just be a mandatory mod on them and a band aid at that.

I believe Bombards and Napalms on the enemies side receive no self damage from using those weapons so why should we?

I would agree, it is a bandaid. But it is still a choice for people to make. More damage or not kill myself?

I like the idea of this bandaid mod. Would it severely impact the damage of grenade launchers? Maybe. Would that be good? Probably (little damage nerf).
People not sticking huge damage on their weapon don't need the mod (leveling for MR). That is my argument against just nerfing damage. People have the option to do it, or not. We are taking nothing away, just providing an alternative.
Also give Tonkor self damage.

What about simulor?
...I dunno... reduce its damage but make it more crit based? Makes it easier to scale its damage reliably by DE as they create an optimal build path.
But the AoE is the killer, it is also what makes it preferrable to the tonkor (for some):
Maybe don't make it do damage through obstacles in the environment?
Define a maximum number of enemies to take damage in the AoE? Maybe it needs to be more complex than that. There is a cone expanding from the orb to the player (60 degrees?) where all enemies within AoE range take damage, then 10 outside of this cone closest to the orb (but within AoE range) also take damage. Less of a mob killer, but still fits the bill.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I am actually for leaving the self-damage in but only if they bring back Self-damage type builds/play styles.

Let Self Damage Trinity be viable again. Same with Rhino & Nezha letting them self buff resilience with self-harm. This would at least give these weapons a niche play-style.

(Allowing Self-harm weapons to grant Rage energy would also be most welcome for WuKong.....)

Now if Limbo Rift Torrent would do something like link his damage while in Rift and split it amongst Enemies that have been banished or are in Cataclysm....he might also be a Self-harm candidate.

[shyguyk]

Shield gating is in the works. should fix this issue for ya unless you spam in your face