The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[(PSN)haffmo]

Yeah negative feedback has no place here. Why should DE come up with solutions. It is on players who have bad experiences.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, letir said:

Anyone who have "I don't have this problem, so this isn't a problem" Syndrome is a white knight for me.

i don't have this problem because i actually play the game and experiment with new systems, and find ways to mitigate any "issues" on my end, instead of crying up a storm because someone took away my favorite easy mode.

If that makes me a white knight then hand me my suit of armor.

[GrimAtrament]

Just now, Agentawesome said:

- Diriga AoE stun lock, 70 meter sniper rifle.

- Sentinel weapons can cause status procs like crazy and provide support.  

- Djinn's Fatal Attraction makes enemies go into harmless state.

- Carrier can now be used to replace ammo mutation mods for ammo eating weapons.

- Helios still can scan and show weaknesses. 

 

know what else can stun? every warframe in the game

your sentient provides support 

that's cute  meanwhile my kavat just made them open to finishers removed there armor and gave me red crits who needs a sentinel with corrosive procs or viral when you have a kavat that just removed its armor and opened it to finishers.

if dijnns fatal attraction was that useful we would see more of it.

sounds like a ammo mangament problem on your end iv never run out of ammo in this game except with the kohm and i have a primed mutations mod on it for that exact reason.

cool but when your codex is full then what? 

oh and your sentinel is usually dead in any sortie, raid, or level 50-100 mission

 

[YUNoJump]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

its not a necessity, isnt the issue of balance solved by carrier now having ammo mutation and vacuum being across them all? Then u just balance the new ammo mutation vs the other sentinels. Reducing the range was an unnecessary way of making 89% of the community mad.

I maintain the belief that DE doesn't like vacuum, that's just a theory though. With this change it seems that they want to focus pickups to be something that you actively look for as opposed to passively pick up in a large radius without thinking. That's a complicated thing to talk about though, as we enter the dangerous and very subjective territory of "what is fun". 

I also think that if the range were to be restored to its original number then Vacuum should be a high-cost Companion mod. Possibly emanating from the Warframe to avoid the issue of Pets running off and taking every drop with them. Vacuum needs to be an option to carefully consider, not just a guaranteed equip. The issue of mandatory mods is one that DE (allegedly) wants to fix on other things, like with Serration and Multishot, and it's a good idea to fix if they want to maintain the idea that mod builds are completely customisable. Same goes for Vacuum.

[letir]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

you don't seem to get what i'm saying. at insane rates of speed, there are ways to mitigate the resource draw time, that the player themselves can do manually.

on slower frames, it works just fine. all these "i don't like it" arguments boil down to people wanting to steamroll in a straight line and still get everything. DE doesn't want you to do that, and i agree with them. there is now a solid reason to use other sentinels as they all share a universal draw range, meaning every single sentinel is on the same level in terms of passive use, which allows for personal preference in regards to what sentinel to use as opposed to this is the only sentinel that does the thing that i like.

What's wrong with what? Why should I run around like headless chicken with my Frost Prime (not fastest frame in univers) just to get my deserved resources and mods?

This is a Third Person Shooter, focused on moblity and cool mass destruction. Not Roomba Simulator.

 

Loot gathering is annoying and unecessary process. Nobody enjoying it, what's why everyone and their mothers packed Carrier.

[Lichcontract]

We didn't need a universal Vacuum, however, it's a convenience that is honestly a really damn good quality of life improvement (it means we can use any companion we want/be companion-less if we so choose, we can focus on actual combat instead of coming up with strats like gMag+ Mesa, it means we don't have to miss out on that drop we've been farming for 1000+ hours just because it fell off a cliff i.e. Despair in my case).

Right I know they didn't split it into 3 mods anymore but if people wanted to be that close to drops to actually pick them up, it's back to square one of having to look around for loot instead of focusing on combat, not only that but it's only applied to sentinels which helps no other companions which is kinda the reason we wanted a universal Vacuum in the first place...

DE hear me out: 10m Vacuum that's built into every WarFrame. It's easy to explain lore-wise, is convenient AF and solves a bunch of issues to do with companions and loot.

[RikerWatts]

8 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

I have zillions of everything

it had to be done
 

Spoiler

Context: character in the image is named Zilean

Edited October 6, 2016 by RikerWatts

[NeithanDiniem]

8 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

I actually think that's exactly where we should be, at zero effort needed to receive any item that drops in a mission.

So we should not haveto put any effort into the game to get everything. May as well just let people grab an item, mod it up with any mod, rank any mod to any rank, and play any mission where all enemies die from one shot anyways.

8 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

That's not conducive to polite discussion, and the fact remains that I was still finding things that felt worth doing in the game. This vacuum change devalues my time and effort, so naturally I'm not pleased about it.

But you have "Zillions of everything and mountains of plat," what possible value are you getting out of a few alloy plates here, a neurode there? You really have a broken mindset here.

5 minutes ago, letir said:

Anyone who have "I don't have this problem, so this isn't a problem" Syndrome is a white knight for me.

Oh so if one person says they have an issue with something, every other person that goes on there to say "I really don't have this problem, heres why..." doesn't matter, nope they are a white knight. Even if logic is against them, or if their assumption is simply flat out incorrect in a factual way?

Logic.

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[leeliam]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)haffmo said:

Yeah negative feedback has no place here. Why should DE come up with solutions. It is on players who have bad experiences.

well u have not got it yet so u cant say mush u are on ps4

[notlamprey]

Just now, RikerWatts said:

it had to be done

I have no idea what that is, but I'm upvoting it.

[ObviousLee]

6 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

I actually think that's exactly where we should be, at zero effort needed to receive any item that drops in a mission.

We're already dealing with the game running math to decide whether those things drop in the first place, and that's enough. For the record, I have zillions of everything and a mountain of plat besides. I couldn't blame anyone for calling me spoiled, but don't tell me I'm wrong to no longer be having fun.

That's not conducive to polite discussion, and the fact remains that I was still finding things that felt worth doing in the game. This vacuum change devalues my time and effort, so naturally I'm not pleased about it.

In the end, what will be will be. Perhaps DE responds to all this discussion by giving us back some portion of vacuum's original functionality, or at least the freedom to choose it in lieu of some other tool. Maybe they don't, and vacuum stays as it is for the rest of Warframe's lifespan. If I need to adapt and can, I will. If not, I'll be elsewhere and that's fine.

Above all else, I'd really be a fool if I didn't even attempt to give my feedback. If I don't express my opinion, I'll have no one to blame but myself. At least do me the courtesy of not attempting to devalue me along with my opinion, as though those two were the same thing.

if i'm understanding you correctly, you feel that you should just....be able to get everything at no effort?

 

If you have a mountain of plat, and a pile of resources, then why are you even taking issue with something that for the majority of use pulls in resources mods and other goodies. kinda devaluing your own point here.

 

and i'm sorry if you feel like a solid dose of reality is an attempt at devaluing you. Delusions of grandeur tend to need to be squashed when they conflict with logical game design. sorry to burst your bubble.

[Hayabusa97]

I think the reason for the lack of satisfaction is because of War Within hype.

[ashrah]

no more despoil build for me lets back old school lol

[letir]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

i don't have this problem because i actually play the game and experiment with new systems, and find ways to mitigate any "issues" on my end, instead of crying up a storm because someone took away my favorite easy mode.

If that makes me a white knight then hand me my suit of armor.

Well, I don't want to miltigate bad designer decisions from DE part just to pretned that it make me "kool adult pro-gamer".

DE making many bad decisions, and I'm tired of sucking and miltigating.

[GrimAtrament]

most funny thing about all this vacuum complaining if it was not in the game to begin with no one would notice or care

[notlamprey]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

if i'm understanding you correctly, you feel that you should just....be able to get everything at no effort?

 

If you have a mountain of plat, and a pile of resources, then why are you even taking issue with something that for the majority of use pulls in resources mods and other goodies. kinda devaluing your own point here.

 

and i'm sorry if you feel like a solid dose of reality is an attempt at devaluing you. Delusions of grandeur tend to need to be squashed when they conflict with logical game design. sorry to burst your bubble.

Hey, don't be sad.

You taught me a lot about the kind of person you are, and that's always worth my time. If anything, you should be proud that you're such an effective communicator.

[CY13ERPUNK]

ok so im sure this is going to get buried under the masses of QQ 

but i really never liked carrier or vacuum, from day one it was the 'lazy' sentinel imho [i know it helps some impaired players however FWIW] , and most of us initially made fun of how it looked like a grineer nutsack/gourd ; the only uses vacuum ever had for me when i was ranking up carrier/P was to grab mods that were behind walls that wouldnt open on the void tileset [a clear exploit, but its not my fault that DE's lvl design was bad enough to spawn loot that was otherwise unobtainable]

but basically this is a thread for people to chime in if they so wish, as to the complete lack of necessity of having vacuum, or universal vacuum, or whatevs

imho DE flubbed big time when they initially introduced carrier and vacuum to begin with, now we have a huge playerbase that is spoiled rotten =/

not sure if most other ppl cant see the writing on the walls or what, but DE has been moving away from 'passive' gameplay mechanics for awhile now, and the introduction of the ayatan/stars and resource chunks are just another step in that direction [notice how the carrier sent has a unique precept for shooting/breaking crates? hmm, so its really still going to stay the main sent for >70%] 

notice that we never hear anyone complain about how opening lockers is such a chore? becuz its always been that way, no one knows any different, and for whatever reason, most cant think outside of the box 

but becuz so many have been spoiled by 12m vacuum for so long, now anything except innate/passive/universal vacuum at 15+m for frames is just soooo bad and DE hates us and oh noes, NERFS!!! =/

personally i think DE is really just continuing to dig themselves into a deeper hole with this 'must placate the masses' people-pleaser stuff

if i was DE, id just come out and say : 'hey guys, we luv u all, but there are some aspects of the game that we arent happy with and we're gonna change some things to make them less passive and require some more input/effort to grab all that sweet sweet loot, but bear with us and while we're doing this, we do want your input on some other potentially interesting things we could do, within reason' BOOM, put your foot down, say that u want vacuum to be no more than 5m or whatevs, maybe let Mag be special/unique and give her 10m vacuum on her bullet jump or whatevs

not even going to get into the whole : 'all of this has changed nothing, carrierP still best sent by far, now also with ammo mutator, AND kubrows and kavats still left out to rot'

[----Fenrir----]

I'm really at a loss as to what DE is thinking. Are they trolling perhaps? Maybe they have been paid by Activision to sabotage their game and get people to switch over to Destiny? Or perhaps they use RNG to determine the nature of changes? I really have no idea.

• > ~90% of players use Carrier/Prime because they likely consider picking up loot more or less manually tedious.
• DE > Let's nerf vacuum so it's range is only barely better than the 3m pickup range all warframes have by default.

Makes perfect sense, if annoying the majority of their customer base on purpose was their intention that is. Was it really such an impossible proposition to simply make vacuum an universal mod usable on all companion (including our four legged friends) like let's say Animal Instinct? What is the point of making picking up loot more tedious? Annoy people? Make playing Warframe less fun? I honestly do not understand what they are thinking.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 minutes ago, letir said:

Well, I don't want to miltigate bad designer decisions from DE part just to pretned that it make me "kool adult pro-gamer".

DE making many bad decisions, and I'm tired of sucking and miltigating.

Then... stop?

[LightBriite]

Nerfed Vacuum range to force people to buy boosters? Okay, that was a good joke fam, if you thing that's legit a reason though, you need help. Ever since SoTR and Ayatan Sculptures released, resource gathering has literally been trivial as Hell. Literally get 2k polymer from doing a quick exterminate, I have had 100 argon crystals at one point from just doing a few void sabotage missions. Literally grind is becoming less and less and you still think they're trying to force you to buy boosters? Get real. 

[letir]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Oh so if one person says they have an issue with something, every other person that goes on there to say "I really don't have this problem, heres why..." doesn't matter, nope they are a white knight. Even if logic is against them, or if their assumption is simply flat out incorrect in a factual way?

Incorret in a factual way?

Vacuum was harshy nerfed, THIS is a fact.

[Vali]

1 minute ago, hazerddex said:

know what else can stun? every warframe in the game

your sentient provides support 

that's cute  meanwhile my kavat just made them open to finishers removed there armor and gave me red crits who needs a sentinel with corrosive procs or viral when you have a kavat that just removed its armor and opened it to finishers.

if dijnns fatal attraction was that useful we would see more of it.

sounds like a ammo mangament problem on your end iv never run out of ammo in this game except with the kohm and i have a primed mutations mod on it for that exact reason.

cool but when your codex is full then what? 

oh and your sentinel is usually dead in any sortie, raid, or level 50-100 mission

 

1. Stun for complete free and requires no effort? 

2. Sentinels don't suffer from wonky AI, Kavats only strip armor once every 10 second, Sentinels are always working.

3. Then use the Djinn?

4. Twin Grakatas, Synoid Gammacor, Boar Prime etc can run out of ammo fast.

5. Helios can scan targets to reveal weakspot like Banshee's sonar, but for free.

6. Same with your Kavat/Kubrow.  

[NativeKiller]

I actually think it's horrifically underrated by an incredibly large number of people but I will leave it at that. :)

[letir]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Then... stop?

Yeah, this exactly what i'm doing right now. I'm *@##$ing about their decisions, because i don't like them.

[ObviousLee]

14 minutes ago, letir said:

What's wrong with what? Why should I run around like headless chicken with my Frost Prime (not fastest frame in univers) just to get my deserved resources and mods?

This is a Third Person Shooter, focused on moblity and cool mass destruction. Not Roomba Simulator.

 

Loot gathering is annoying and unecessary process. Nobody enjoying it, what's why everyone and their mothers packed Carrier.

you realize you only have to move around slightly more, right? of course you do. because you play the game right? right. you've over a thousand hours so i know you play the game.

but i wonder if you understand what good game design is. is it getting what you want, personally, or is it getting what is good for the game in its entirety? is a universal buff to all sentinels a bad thing? of course it isn't. is having to move around literally only slightly more so than one does now a bad thing? no, it isn't.

again, all this boils down to is being upset for no longer being able to stand in the center of any decent sized room and collect everything with little to no effort. If DE were to start basing design choices around these kinds of mentalities, the game would not last much longer as it would turn into firefall/defiance in short order.

12 minutes ago, letir said:

Well, I don't want to miltigate bad designer decisions from DE part just to pretned that it make me "kool adult pro-gamer".

DE making many bad decisions, and I'm tired of sucking and miltigating.

then. leave.

 

do you know what mitigate even means? because the way you're using it.....doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by ObviousLee