Bladestorm rework feedback

[Hemmo67]

3 minutes ago, Xico.xide said:

i think the only issue i'll have is moving around while holding 4, maybe they could make it a toggle rather than holding?

if u have 4 button mouse u could bind the 4th to ability use and move normally while holding mouse 4

but since i do not have one nor does everyone else i suggest casting smoke screen in middle of enemies to stun and safely mark them

and yes this means max range and 100% duration 175% efficency build

Edited October 7, 2016 by Hemmo67

[Ozamchist]

Yay! Knee jerk reaction threads...

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

That's not how it seemed. I am not "Freaking out" I am posting what I see is a potential problems so the Devs see it BEFORE they release the change. Other people killing marked targets is a problem, the gun vs BS issue should be taken into account.

You said it seemed to be 100% useless.

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

in fact it seems like it will make ash 100% useless as far as BS is concerned.

 

4 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

Which means BS will only be useful if used against high level targets your gun takes 4- 5 shots to kill,

Some of us don't just use the tonkor all the time, you know. And even with the tonkor, shooting 3 times takes some time to do. I see no problem with spam marking 3 or 4 enemies and then BSing them, especially with high-value targets such as bursas.

I wouldn't be opposed to making it a small aoe centered around the marked target, but they are right to increase the level of interactivity. And right now we have a HUGE problem with marked targets being invincible, so worrying about people killing marked targets seems strange. My main concern is that they did not address the invulnerability issue.

[weezedog]

From what was demoed on the dev stream, I don't think the rework so far addresses the main complaint about bladestorm: it's still just watching animations play while you do nothing. 

I think any good rework will need to remove the auto-played finisher animations and give some kind of control to the player. Also it needs to be able to be cancelled early, as being stuck in a long bladestorm is also a big complaint. 

I'd much rather see like a toggle that teleports you around to enemies and you have to melee the enemies yourself, or even a toned down / not as powerful "world on fire" version they said they were experimenting with and was too strong but that doesn't remove you from combat. Either of those would be better. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by weezedog

[Kutsus]

I think they're definitely onto something with the idea of marking, something about a deadly assassin putting death marks on his enemies just feels so right!

But yeah when i saw how it was just good ol' Bladestorm but with an incredibly troublesome way of casting it, i was skeptical to say the least.

First of all, it needs to be press once to activate marking mode, press again to execute enemies, not holding the button, that's just terrible.

And i still think that one of the initial Bladestorm reworks that showed the clones doing work while Ash himself was just chilling was a very good idea, combine it with the marking mechanic, and the marks buffing his other abilities, and i think we have a rly solid 4th ability for Ash.

[Insizer]

I need some more salt for the popcorn I'm eating.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Insizer

[(XBOX)Englands Own]

Whatever you choose to do with it, make sure Ash is no longer a cheese frame, you did it with Mesa and Saryn.It'll make the game more far more enjoyable for the none Ash players.

[Azrael]

Just now, Insizer said:

I need some salt for the popcorn I'm eating.

I don't understand how you can possibly be short on salt. How much do you need?!

[Shiichibukai]

All they did was put Mesa's mechanic in and keep the rest pretty much. Its kinda meh :/

[Insizer]

Just now, Azrael said:

I don't understand how you can possibly be short on salt. How much do you need?!

Lets just say that I like my salt with popcorn.

[NightmareT12]

Maybe it will feel better though and can get a pass. Because to be honest, the best way to do this would be to have Ash take out the blades and attack AC style, but how do you balance that effectively?

[Kai]

So after reading here and watching the testing of prototype Blade Storm 2.0, indeed it certainly becomes a hassle to hold a buttom (unless you have it mapped on another key which makes finger movements much easier seeing Rebecca was a bit struggling while doing it), and practically slows down the pace of Ash and puts the player himself in harm. Although it was stated that the player can still move and shoot while holding down the button, it may appear to be unnecessary as shooting an enemy will essentially put your crosshair on that enemy which will also mark them with your Blade Storm.

Another issue I saw was essentially "Stopping" your Blade Storm. Seeing how once you have activated Blade Storm, and you decided to not use it, you'll just start having problems (especially with Infested as they tend to swarm) with the only possible solution is to kill your marked enemies. But to do so, you need to aim and shoot them, which in return - also marks them.

While watching it, I thought of things that could possibly help with the concept of Blade Storm 2.0.

1st Suggestion

• Remove Blade Storm's Energy Cost.
• Shuriken, Teleport and Smoke Bomb will instead be used to mark enemies for Ash's Blade Storm. Essentially, enemies affected by Smoke Bomb or has been recently been targeted by Ash's Teleport or struck by Shuriken. This promotes an inner-synergy for Ash's abilities.
• Blade Storm cannot be used if there are no marked enemies.
• A counter is shown on how many enemies are currently marked by Ash's Abilities.

 

2nd Suggestion

• Allies can also mark enemies once Ash's Blade Storm has been activated. The same concept shown would apply to each ally, aiming on enemies will mark them for Ash.
• Enemies marked by Ash's allies are targeted by Ash's Body Double/Clones which deals lesser damage but consumes lesser energy.

 

So for now, that's what I have, please try to be as constructive and positive as possible.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Harowing

[Shiichibukai]

I hope everyones wrong but i get the feeling this time its really gonna be flat out bad :/

[weezedog]

10 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

All they did was put Mesa's mechanic in and keep the rest pretty much. Its kinda meh :/

It might be better if holding down 4 sends out just shadows to attack on marked targets and happens immediately and the player isn't teleported at all. That could work and that would be closer to Mesa's mechanics and might be cool. 

I will say that what they showed on the stream with marking enemies and then releasing to cast is going to take way too long, enemies die way to fast for that. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by weezedog

[Azrael]

13 minutes ago, weezedog said:

the main complaint about bladestorm: it's still just watching animations play while you do nothing. 

I actually agree with you, but I'm not sure the animations is really the *main* complaint. I feel like the main complaint is the invulnerability thing (or maybe radiation procs), and they didn't address those at all.

I agree that some interactivity during BS would be good,, but I think that would be hard to accomplish as well. BS is not an easy ability to make interactive.

[Insizer]

No, i wouldn't want to be teleported to an enemy and have to melee them. This is a fine level of interactivity.

[TaylorsContraction]

29 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

That would allow us to toggle on , run the whole map targeting enemy while stealth.

Unleash the blade storm , stack stealth multiplier and profit ^.^ 

Limited by your energy since I think every kill will drain energy or every mark. Hopefully if it's a mark then the energy is refunded when a  marked enemy is killed by not blame storm

[Cat_Jam]

I would be completely fine with these changes if they would just make it so that you press 4, look at the enemies and then press 4 again to execute the finisher animations (obviously when the limit of marks is met then the oldest marked enemy is replace by the most recently marked enemy).

She had to press and hold 4 in the Dev Stream, I do not want to have to press and hold 4, my movement buttons, and any other buttons necessary while I am firing or meleeing or whatever.

[Urlan]

I personally would have loved an exalted weapon type approach that just made his other abilities cheaper while burning energy to encourage spamming abilities and stab teleporting around.

[Shiichibukai]

Just now, Insizer said:

No, i wouldn't want to be teleported to an enemy and have to melee them. This is a fine level of interactivity.

Its still the same as before though...aside from you gotta aim around and mark them and then do the same thing.

[Insizer]

1 minute ago, Shichibukai88 said:

Its still the same as before though...aside from you gotta aim around and mark them and then do the same thing.

I know, I saw the vid. It looks fine to me, except for the holding the key issues.

[Urlan]

Oh well, I sorta was hoping for something like an exalted type move that empowered Ash's other moves to give a similar feel to the existing Bladestorm while making it more interactive.

[rockscl]

op says he will get stuck in long animations, but now its in his hands to decided how many enemies attack each time he uses it

the rest is your opinion, i had a problem with ASH being a no hands mode frame and the change fixes it for me, also he will gain synergy from his team mates as he will save energy, now ash can focus on real threats, if the player can of course

the interactivity while the ultimate is going on is not a mandatory change imo because if you remove it from ash, then people who likes the cosmetic aspect of it will want it to be restored somewhere else, theres no substantial reason to remove it from ash, its just cosmetic

[ashrah]

idea is cool its similar concept like zero from borderlands 2   u mark target then u do massive amount of dmg...problem is  this type of mehanics will be inpractical in fast  game like warframe....i played ash lot in t4 void 2+h solo and enemies on that lvl  doing massive dmg...2-3 shot and u going down just like that better would be something like exalibur but no waves.....

[X3Evanescence]

I've been racking my brain for ideas, but here is one I have coming off the top of my head:

Blade Storm:  

Initial cast marks enemies in a 10/10/15/20 meter radius around Ash. Marked enemies take increased finisher damage. Casting teleport on enemies marked will have no energy cost and auto-performs a finisher on the enemy. For each finisher, it will open a frame of seconds where if you essentially "Chain-Teleport" and attack enemies, you gain a multiplier for the finisher damage based on how many chains you manage to do. Multiplier can go up for every 5 kills you successfully chain.

I believe this change will add in that interactivity that players want, and give more control to who you want to cast bladestorm on. It also makes the damage more scalable too!

Downsides:

-Might make Fatal Teleport useless (?) but considering this version gets no energy, perhaps energy can be gained per kill?

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by X3Evanescence