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Is DE ending their MFMF stock frame introduction pattern?

(PSN)Magician_NG

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TennoSimons

TennoSimons

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, -Amaterasu- said:

Except Nezha is pretty much a male equivalent to ember theme wise while the new frame is going to be a female equivalent to Banshee...

I really wish they'd just hold off on the bard and make it male so we don't have 2 female sound based frames.

Yeah, pretty much this. 

On a devstream a looooong time ago, in one of the many times that the Devstream addressed whether they would ever release gender reversed frames, DE Steve said a firm "no" but stated that they hoped to release similar themed but separate frames of a different gender. Since then, we have seen Nezha who has a lot of flame powers (sort of mirroring Ember), Mirage (who is pretty Kunoichi-esque, mirroring Ash), there are arguably other good examples. I think that Bard frame could have been a good male complement to Banshee. Wish she were made a he. 

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HalfDarkShadow

HalfDarkShadow

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Posted (edited)

Like others mentioned, I don't believe this really matters nor it should be in the first place.

It's not like some contractual rule that's set in stone of sorts, it's just an ethical rule-of-thumb, or guideline if you will to keep it in an even playing field.

If they want to "break" that, from at least an artistical point of view, let them. Its their creation at the end of the day.

I understand where some are coming from and why some would assume that but again, there's nothing forcing them to have to abide by this idea.

It's nice to see them wanting to balance the ratio but don't misconstrue that as the sole reason why this new Warframe is going to be female. For all we know, they have already a few finalized concepts of other Warframes ready to be modeled or are modeled already but they decided to push this one up the queue instead of some male Warframe they had in mind. We don't know.

Lastly in my personal opinion when I first saw the model, proportions and seeing the overall silhouette, I figured it was kind of obvious it was a female Warframe anyway.

That's something I can't understand; why some have this idea that thematically speaking it has to this arbrutray male to female concept like it's some kind of polar opposite thing. Clearly it's not what they are going for in the first place and even if they were, why can't it be female to female?

Again, there is absolutely no relation to Banshee and this as well as some mentioned Nezha and Ember, and personally I'm glad it isn't.

Edited by HalfDarkShadow
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SolidJames

SolidJames

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Horaciozhao said:

hmmm, didn't wukong and nezha actually fixed the “pattern”？ Banshee and saryn were out together. The gender inbalance number right now is because of the vanilla 8 only had 3 female, trinity, ember, mag, not because wukong and nezha "broke" the pattern.

 

There are 30 frames (discounting Primes obviously). 14 female, 16 male. As you said, initially there were 8. 5 male, 3 female. When Wukong and Nezha were added, they increased the disparity by 1 further. 

The actual release order has been this; starting with Nyx and ending with the new bardframe: FMFFMFMFMFMFMFMFMMFMMFF

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Rhekemi

Rhekemi

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Once the bardframe is released, it'll be 16 Male Frames and 15 Female Frames (if you consider Equinox a Female)...
 I guess if they really want parity , they'll have to add another female frame after the bardframe...

Equinox was always female. Any Design Council member can head to the archives and tell you this.

The DC was asked to design a new female warframe concept. One of those suggestions was for a yin/yang, harm/heal warframe. It won and became Equinox. She always was, and currently is, female--that includes all her forms. 

4 hours ago, -Amaterasu- said:

Except Nezha is pretty much a male equivalent to ember theme wise while the new frame is going to be a female equivalent to Banshee...

I really wish they'd just hold off on the bard and make it male so we don't have 2 female sound based frames.

Kind of like how we had two male stealth 'frames for the longest time until Ivara. SHUT UP, BANSHEE! YOU'RE NOT STEALTHY.

2 hours ago, THEWULFMAN said:

There are 30 frames (discounting Primes obviously). 14 female, 16 male. As you said, initially there were 8. 5 male, 3 female. When Wukong and Nezha were added, they increased the disparity by 1 further. 

The actual release order has been this; starting with Nyx and ending with the new bardframe: FMFFMFMFMFMFMFMFMMFMMFF

In other words: sometimes sh** happens, but overall, DE prefers to alternate gender.

It's how they want to do it. Doesn't matter if it matters or if we discuss it or not. It's how the company prefers to release warframes, and they're pretty good at sticking to that schedule overall.

Even if it isn't true that adding more female frames in succession will fix the pattern, it is still in line with DE's penchant for parity.

Put another way, just because the pattern hasn't been perfect, doesn't mean DE should stop trying for parity. I applaud them for trying to stick to it.

Would I have preferred a male bard? I honestly don't think so. I mean, a bard isn't a concept I've been dying to see in-game. Not sure I care one way or the other as long as it plays good.

Edited by Rhekemi
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Rakosta_Kai

Rakosta_Kai

Posted
Posted

Balance being restored is about all this is... Anything else is coincidence.

The fact that DE is releasing yet another female frame with a unique and innovative powerset, that could well wind up being god-tier, will also be purely coincidental.

* ....walks off grumbling about gunslingers and archers.* 

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Gelkor

Gelkor

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

Would I have preferred a male bard? I honestly don't think so. I mean, a bard isn't a concept I've been dying to see in-game. Not sure I care one way or the other as long as it plays good.

I only wanted a male bard so I could cosplay as Manolo from The Book of Life, bonus points if it released before Haloween and had a Day of the Dead skin.

That said, the Bard frame has a swanky jacket so I can still pull off the look, though no Day of the Dead skin, this year.

*crosses fingers*

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Gelkor

Gelkor

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Balance being restored is about all this is... Anything else is coincidence.

The fact that DE is releasing yet another female frame with a unique and innovative powerset, that could well wind up being god-tier, will also be purely coincidental.

* ....walks off grumbling about gunslingers and archers.* 

It's kinda a shame that Nezha and Wukong are so... simple, in their execution. That said, I'd say Inaros was pretty unique and innovative (maybe not god-tier), however, what with the no shields and death state and what not. 

I'd also argue that "She has a bow", and "she shoots things with pistols" aren't necessarily unique or innovative, their executions may have better synergies than we've seen in a while, (heck, Ivara is one of the few frames that has barely been touched whatsoever since release, she was practically perfect at launch).

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Rakosta_Kai

Rakosta_Kai

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Gelkor said:

It's kinda a shame that Nezha and Wukong are so... simple, in their execution. That said, I'd say Inaros was pretty unique and innovative (maybe not god-tier), however, what with the no shields and death state and what not. 

I'd also argue that "She has a bow", and "she shoots things with pistols" aren't necessarily unique or innovative, their executions may have better synergies than we've seen in a while, (heck, Ivara is one of the few frames that has barely been touched whatsoever since release, she was practically perfect at launch).

I know bud.. It's just personal opinion moreso than it is something particularly objective.

...It could even be argued that it strikes a balance between the swordmaster and ninja frames both being male (which I don't think is fair either). That said,  I don't play female frames and I love the gunslinger and archer themes more.

As such, I'm not even mad about it... I'm annoyed about my luck in regard to it as I don't play the female frames. I don't even level them for mastery anymore at this point as a general rule (Mesa and Ivara excepted... But I'd play them more if they were male). 

That said, the trend in this game has become, to me, one where the female frames tend to be a bit more inventive and innovative as a general rule. 

Before the SJW's show up, it's not a matter of mysogyny... I'm a dude that plays dude avatars because playing female avatars is immersion breaking for me.

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Rhekemi

Rhekemi

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gelkor said:

I only wanted a male bard so I could cosplay as Manolo from The Book of Life, bonus points if it released before Haloween and had a Day of the Dead skin.

That said, the Bard frame has a swanky jacket so I can still pull off the look, though no Day of the Dead skin, this year.

*crosses fingers*

I see. I don't know who that is, but will google.

28 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I know bud.. It's just personal opinion moreso than it is something particularly objective.

...It could even be argued that it strikes a balance between the swordmaster and ninja frames both being male (which I don't think is fair either). That said,  I don't play female frames and I love the gunslinger and archer themes more.

As such, I'm not even mad about it... I'm annoyed about my luck in regard to it as I don't play the female frames. I don't even level them for mastery anymore at this point as a general rule (Mesa and Ivara excepted... But I'd play them more if they were male). 

That said, the trend in this game has become, to me, one where the female frames tend to be a bit more inventive and innovative as a general rule. 

Before the SJW's show up, it's not a matter of mysogyny... I'm a dude that plays dude avatars because playing female avatars is immersion breaking for me.

Yeah, I can see your points.

Female 'frames also seem to have most of the nukes.

Either male 'frames don't tend to have a really involved support playstyle like many female 'frames do, or I just haven't gotten around to them yet/haven't warmed to them.

I would say Loki, Nekros (esp. after rework), Frost (even though he is fairly straight-forward) are all inventive.

So is Limbo, but as a non-Limbro observer (my skill and playtime with him is limited) he seems in need of that coming rework to put him on an internal synergy level with someone like Saryn.

I still haven't done the Inaros quest, and Atlas needs 2 more parts. He still doesn't seem like the brawler I was promised.

When I think about it, I would like a really fun and inventive male 'frame besides my favorite male 'frames (Frost, Excal, Rhino, Volt. Nekros and Hydroid fall in line after them, but I need better builds, and being Farmer John gets tiresome. No one wants my healer Hydroid. It's Pilfering Swarm or gtfo.)

That fun male 'frame may already exist and I just don't use him well or at all. (I don't use Wukong or Atlas yet, or Inaros.)

 

I guess I don't usually think about it from this angle. I grew up with (and am older than) the Street Fighter franchise, and it's a good example of my playstyle: I will play as any character so long as I like them, they have a use, or are fun.

I see Warframe's roster like SF's or MK's where each character should give me a unique playstyle and theme to have fun with.

Maybe master...if I wasn't so casual.

Edited by Rhekemi
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(PSN)robotwars7

(PSN)robotwars7

Posted
Posted

personally I'm not bothered, as long as we get a well designed frame.

Spoiler

also, I highly doubt we'll get to use Ordis' body as a Warframe. that's not how Warframes work. they are based off of ideas, not actual people. Ordis was originally a human, and the Warframes are not made of human flesh, instead they are made of some kind of inert Technocyte flesh.

 

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RoboticApplesWithLasers

RoboticApplesWithLasers

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, -Amaterasu- said:

Except Nezha is pretty much a male equivalent to ember theme wise while the new frame is going to be a female equivalent to Banshee...

I really wish they'd just hold off on the bard and make it male so we don't have 2 female sound based frames.

Don't see how the sex of a frame affects whether its theme is trite or not.  My enjoyment of any sound frame will be determined by it being suitably different to all others. I'd take a female unique frame over a male banshee clone.  

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Gelkor

Gelkor

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, ograzzt said:

1) Titania has adam's apple.

2) New frame is a female.

3) The order always was female - male - female - male.

Coincidence? I think not!

Going on anatomical geography, if Warframe's were human, that's Titania's thyroid.

Edited by Gelkor
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Corvid

Corvid

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, RoboticApplesWithLasers said:

Don't see how the sex of a frame affects whether its theme is trite or not.  My enjoyment of any sound frame will be determined by it being suitably different to all others. I'd take a female unique frame over a male banshee clone.  

It's more the fact that the devs said a while back that they would make different gendered frames with the same theme instead of actual genderswapped ones. Having two sound-themed frames seems like a wasted opportunity to make good on that (Yes, I'm aware that Nezha is a thing. I main him).

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Corvid

Corvid

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

Hydroid and frost both control water in some form, but it's how the water is expressed that makes them different. It's likely the same with banshee and the bardframe. 

Well, Frost's element is technically "Cold", not ice.

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