Majority dont like Riven Mods = Majority dont get good rolls

[Hitexh]

Those who dont agree with Riven Mod basically doesnt get a good riven mod. Thats why they make Reasons like:

1. Powercreep on meta weapons. Are they blind? if you dont like the powercreep on meta weapons, just buff the underpowered weapon and nerf the overpowered ones, without blaming the mod. And Powercreep on Meta Weapon already exist since ancient time, where were you till now? So Prime Cyro Rounds isnt available for simulor but it does for other weapons?

2. RNGesus. Are you not playing warframe till now? From the part of prime grind, mods grind, even the arcane energize farm, are all around RNG. Why suddenly you blame the mod  has to change? Arcane Energize is a game breaking but acceptable?

3. Cost for cycle too expensive. Well, to max prime mods cost 40k endo and takes 1 million credit to trade. Now you are saying maxing Riven mods should cost 1k kuva only? Riven mods is better than prime mods, its a mod that contain 3 other mods, and its an endgame mod. So basically it suppose to be hard to get.

4. Expert Traders. Got good rolls on current meta weapon, and sell them for 1k plats. Stocking good rolls on future meta weapons. This is what majority players who get insight on future development. So after they sold their goods, they will make a two-face said I got Good roll but I still disagree and claim to DE, please change the goods. And sell new ones...

If DE going to nerf all riven mod of meta weapons, wait for the next 3 months, those underpowered weapon that become a new meta weapon should get a nerf also?

You guys need to accept that there are God Tier Weapon in game, and it is in every game. You want to stick to braton till endgame? well you can do it with riven mod now. But dont push people who still want to use simulor.

I agree the existing Riven Mods to be remain as it is. If DE would like to change it, nerf or whatever can do for the new batch riven mods.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Hitexh

[WereFowl]

1. Already failed. People are angry because these mods were supposed to make bad weapons almost as good as the top tier ones, instead they make top tier godly and as we only have space for 15 and everyhing's RNG people are only bothering to reroll on either the good weapon mods or ones that are for weapons the already possess.

Soma, Tonkor and Boltor do no need anything that makes them stronger. Yet weapons like that are th eonly one's that will really benefit from this.

 

2. Again you don't seem to get it. In almost eveyr other aspect of warframe RNG you have some agency in weighing the odds (maybe not from boss drops, but even then it's a fixed reward pool) This is a zero skill lottery ticket.

 

3 When you have RNG and each reroll has no improvement on the chance of good stats then yes, it should cost the same as each time you're taking an equal risk with each reroll and there's no actual justification for the cost increase.

 

3 (again?) The current system rewards players only for being lucky with what Riven mod they got, so if you want  agood Riven mod you either need to be very lucky or pay for it.... Yeah can't see how they could be detrimental to the game...

[letir]

I get pretty decent Ignis mod with +Multishot and +Fire damage. And I even have Ignis, formaed and stuff.

 

I hate and despise Riven mods because they are collection of everything what's wrong in Warframe: excessive Grind, insane Power Creep and stupid RNG layers.

 

We need Damage 3.0, not another set of "mega-Prime mods" behind 7 RNG walls.

Edited November 15, 2016 by letir

[iceyShardZ]

i LOVE riven mods,check out heashot's video on the topic,his opinion is pretty much my opinion

Edited November 15, 2016 by iceyShardZ

[AdunSaveMe]

9 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

Those who dont agree with Riven Mod basically doesnt get a good riven mod.

Wrong. It doesn't matter if you get a good one or bad one. It doesn't change the facts.

This is a completely baseless assumption that does not take the place of an actual argument.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

1 minute ago, iceyShardZ said:

don't say "the majority" don't like riven mods,

i LOVE them,check out heashot's video on the topic,his opinion is pretty much my opinion

same , i love the new system too, looking forward to some refining and tuning mentioned in the Dev Workshop

 

 

[GinKenshin]

tbh, both side are wrong. you all look at stats and meta and all that crap 

personally, I have a lot of 'underused' weapon that are considered crap by 99% of people. well rejoice, me. since I can now make them more powerful and love them even more, which was the whole point of these mods imo. I'd gladly trade an OP tonkor mod for an ignis mod or braton  : P 

[Hitexh]

3 minutes ago, WereFowl said:

1. Already failed. People are angry because these mods were supposed to make bad weapons almost as good as the top tier ones, instead they make top tier godly and as we only have space for 15 and everyhing's RNG people are only bothering to reroll on either the good weapon mods or ones that are for weapons the already possess.

Soma, Tonkor and Boltor do no need anything that makes them stronger. Yet weapons like that are th eonly one's that will really benefit from this.

 

2. Again you don't seem to get it. In almost eveyr other aspect of warframe RNG you have some agency in weighing the odds (maybe not from boss drops, but even then it's a fixed reward pool) This is a zero skill lottery ticket.

 

3 When you have RNG and each reroll has no improvement on the chance of good stats then yes, it should cost the same as each time you're taking an equal risk with each reroll and there's no actual justification for the cost increase.

 

3 (again?) The current system rewards players only for being lucky with what Riven mod they got, so if you want  agood Riven mod you either need to be very lucky or pay for it.... Yeah can't see how they could be detrimental to the game...

1. Well, instead of angry on these mods. Its better to just buff those weapons. Its funny when we look on those weak weapons but they should be grind on an endgame mod, while those good weapons doesnt need riven mod. If DE need to save those weak weapons, they can just buff it, instead making it difficult for players to buff it.

2. Remember the grind for new prime part in the past before fissure update? well its basically the same probability <10%. So yeah, that way those Riven Mods can be limited to only chosen ones. Its endgame mod, not your ordinary Body Count.

3. I agree, the cost may increase, but the probability to get better stat should also increase. You are wise

4. Well agree. But the fact there are trader who scam and disagree with riven mods still there.

Thanks WereFowl, hope we can understand the implication of future hotfix should only applicable on the new batch riven mods.

[JeyciKon]

18 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

Those who dont agree with Riven Mod basically doesnt get a good riven mod.

my most used primary is the soma prime, my 1st riven was for that weapon, i was super lucky and i still dislike this system.

 

 

[WereFowl]

 

4 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

1. Well, instead of angry on these mods. Its better to just buff those weapons. Its funny when we look on those weak weapons but they should be grind on an endgame mod, while those good weapons doesnt need riven mod. If DE need to save those weak weapons, they can just buff it, instead making it difficult for players to buff it.

2. Remember the grind for new prime part in the past before fissure update? well its basically the same probability <10%. So yeah, that way those Riven Mods can be limited to only chosen ones. Its endgame mod, not your ordinary Body Count.

3. I agree, the cost may increase, but the probability to get better stat should also increase. You are wise

4. Well agree. But the fact there are trader who scam and disagree with riven mods still there.

Thanks WereFowl, hope we can understand the implication of future hotfix should only applicable on the new batch riven mods.

1.  Except DE came out before this update and said that they would be doing something to specifically make older less powerful weapons usable, instead they gave some of the most powerful weapons in the game the most insane of buffs.

2. So in other words, they got rid of a huge chunk of the RNG when they introduced void fissures, but dropped even more BS RNG back into the game with these mods.

3. Indeed I am, modest too.

4. Problem is the mods shouldn't be tradable at all if they are in such a state of flux. It's just bad practice to let people sell things they know are probably going to change.

Edited November 15, 2016 by WereFowl

[SurrealEdge]

Just now, Hitexh said:

The fact that braton still weak, simulor still powerfull.

The fact that Arcane energize is better and expensive compare to other arcanes.

Your way of pointing things out, is what I think baseless.

Recycling your own reply to a previous answer isn't the answer I was looking for.

I was looking for how you would know that all of the complaints about the system have any correlation to people getting mods for unused weapon types.

[Blue_Robot]

I for one LOVE the new mod system. It gives the game a lot more lifespan than just adding mods with fixed stats on them. I love it so much, but unfortunately, I have to question the 15 Riven mod limit that hampers it.

I have to agree with you there. I'm pretty sure most of the players who hate the new system haven't received a good Riven yet. I wasn't too fond of it when I got a crappy one for the Penta. As soon as I got my second one though, and it was decent (for the Gorgon though >.<), I saw the possibilities with the new system, especially when it comes to build diversity. Most players who claim to hate the new system will probably deny it, and of course, forcefully stick to their guns due to their inability to admit they were wrong.

Also, I think DE already mentioned that the future mods will be based on the usage statistics of the weapons. More popular weapons=less powerful Rivens. But of course, people will likely ignore that too.

But I'm not sure about them being the majority though. I remember a moderator guy from another forum who said that people usually that cry out in forums aren't the majority of the player base.

[Hitexh]

23 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

Recycling your own reply to a previous answer isn't the answer I was looking for.

I was looking for how you would know that all of the complaints about the system have any correlation to people getting mods for unused weapon types.

The correlation is:

1. Hey I dont get good mods --> Ok I should farm it.

2. Its only on sortie, and its RNG --> I want to get it easier, lets buy it

3. The price of Riven Meta weapon mods so high --> Those riven mods should not exist.

4. Considering RNG, Cost, and Time --> Its better the system to change. Oh look DE says its intended for unused weapon, lets support it.

While Those who already got riven mods --> The system is good / I dont care anymore.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Hitexh

[SurrealEdge]

1 minute ago, Hitexh said:

The correlation is:

1. Hey I dont get good mods --> Ok I should farm it.

2. Its only on sortie, and its RNG --> I want to get it easier, lets buy it

3. The price of Riven Meta weapon mods so high --> Those riven mods should not exist.

4. Considering RNG, Cost, and Time --> Its better the system to change

While Those who already got riven mods --> The system is good / I dont care anymore.

These are generalizations from a small number of people that I can see around the forums since the update has dropped. Your only basis is on the few that have expressed their displeasure with a system that already is largely based on a set of numbers no one has any control over.

It doesn't change that the system is still flawed, not directly stated by DE, but Rebecca's response sounded it was to balance the use of weapon types. It's not a balance when weapons that already deal high damage values continue to do so at a higher point than the weapons DE is trying to balance around.

[ROCKETMAN1189]

I like this new system a lot, every time you make a reroll you basically get a new mode. I do not care for the RNG, I like farming kuva and rerolling stats. But I think we should have a mission that can be played once a week and as a reward give Riven mod, just like Ayatan or Clem missions. :)

Edited November 15, 2016 by OB-Lux

[Hitexh]

1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said:

These are generalizations from a small number of people that I can see around the forums since the update has dropped. Your only basis is on the few that have expressed their displeasure with a system that already is largely based on a set of numbers no one has any control over.

It doesn't change that the system is still flawed, not directly stated by DE, but Rebecca's response sounded it was to balance the use of weapon types. It's not a balance when weapons that already deal high damage values continue to do so at a higher point than the weapons DE is trying to balance around.

You are right. But people are riding on the train that DE provided are majority doesnt get good riven mod. I know that because I understand how minority will respond to upcoming nerf. If we want a good ending for all parties, DE should not nerf the existing mods, and just change in the upcoming new riven mods. Consider them second prime chamber.

Second option is nerf the meta weapons, buff the unused weapons. But the mods should remain the same. Prime Cyro Rounds should be available for everyone, so does riven mods.

[Rioma]

Doesn't matter if you get a good or bad RNG role. Your thoughts on the system can be either way regardless of what you get,

The fact that this gap can exist is proof enough that the system is broken. The fact that this Daikyu mod has mag capacity as a possibility shows how little thought DE put into this system. I couldn't find the img but earlier someone posted a mod that has +slash dmg on a completely elemental gun. Yet you support the system as it is. All it is really is a Random Primary Mod Generator. The system doesn't account at all for what stats should go on what gun.

[Ailissa]

Where have you got this "majority" from?

 

Only a limited number of any games given player base ever visit the forums.

 

Out of those, a portion will visit other places like Twitter, Facebook or the toxic swamp ground that makes 4chan look friendly, Reddit.

 

The only majority are those playing the game that never come to the forums. With the amount of plat the mods are going for and the high demand for them, it's safe to say they aren't as hated as people on here make them out to be. 

[Evanescent]

First of all, if you want to start a conversation, belittling your participants is the best way to weaken your argument and turn the conversation toxic.

Second of all, no, your logic does not add up. Apple+orange=/=pineapple. 1 weapon good, 1 weapon still bad=/=people are salty therefore they rant. Assumptions=/=fact.

Now to the actual topic.

Yes, I think if more people got good mods, we wouldn't see so much complaining. It is also true that people who got good rolls will be more defensive of the system. So you see, it is just as easy for people to dismiss your argument as it is for you to do theirs if you go down this road. 

I don't think this is because they got bad rolls.

The main problem with the system is that there are like 7 layers of RNG with the grind. There is a once per day RNG to get a mod, then there is RNG in the requirememnt, there is RNG in the weapon roll so you may not get one for the weapon you want, there is RNG in the stat rolls, then if you want to reroll it there is rng for siphon to spawn, and then there is the mission grind for the kuva.

If there is one thing people hate in warframe, it is the loss of control. People hate nullifiers, the commander's switch teleport, knockdowns, rng for riven-can't you see why? All these take too much control out of their hands. The Riven system demands too much for too little control.

The problem comes from the fact that despite you both giving the same effort, your friend can get a mod with godly stats while you get one for a sentinel rifle, People don't appreciate that, they've never seen this before in warframe. You've always been able to know that there is a standard power in mod you can put effort into and get. Essentially, you know what you are getting before you sign up. This is not true for riven.

Then you have the fact that stat rolls can be ridiculous, such as critical chance on the miter and status chance on something with next to no status. You need a more balanced set of stats to draw from, and not vary the reward so wildly.

It should be that you are guaranteed a set amount of power, and then and then only you gamble for extra or nothing, otherwise the payoff isn't there and players are frustrated, which is not good.

Kuva is resented because it's not something you can farm in a controlled way. You have to use a clunky mechanic, and then have a silly rng just for the chance to farm it. If it was something permanent and available, people wouldn't whine as much over the roll costs. It's not fun spending the entire day in the same mission again and again to get a resource a precious few times. If this is your endgame, you've defeated the purpose of having the void rework-why are you forcing players into the same missions?

Give players some more control over the rolls, put some restrictions in how the stats are assigned, balance the distribution of attributes you can roll for, and people will like it more. Right now it's a cool concept with not so great implementation.

I mean, if it's there to make me love and use my braton again, it should prioritise my braton instead of cementing my soma further into my arsenal.

 

[Hitexh]

9 minutes ago, xXRiomaXx said:

Doesn't matter if you get a good or bad RNG role. Your thoughts on the system can be either way regardless of what you get,

The fact that this gap can exist is proof enough that the system is broken. The fact that this Daikyu mod has mag capacity as a possibility shows how little thought DE put into this system. I couldn't find the img but earlier someone posted a mod that has +slash dmg on a completely elemental gun. Yet you support the system as it is. All it is really is a Random Primary Mod Generator. The system doesn't account at all for what stats should go on what gun.

Well I dont see Tonkor has any benefit from ammo maximum either. I think the odditiy for any weapons now the same. I got Deth Machine Gun Mod with 200% damage and 60% fire rate, its good. So every weapon has the same chances. But the upcoming hotfix will nerf meta weapons, and I disagree. I can accept the nerf of the weapons instead of nerf of the mods. Because people are putting efforts on rerolling those mods.

[SurrealEdge]

4 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

Well I dont see Tonkor has any benefit from ammo maximum either. I think the odditiy for any weapons now the same. I got Deth Machine Gun Mod with 200% damage and 60% fire rate, its good. So every weapon has the same chances. But the upcoming hotfix will nerf meta weapons, and I disagree. I can accept the nerf of the weapons instead of nerf of the mods. Because people are putting efforts on rerolling those mods.

It's just the absurdity of how the system is. I dislike it, for the reasons given already as it doesn't help the game in any meaningful way aside from making a set of strong weapons even stronger.

Buffing or nerfing the weapons won't change anything when DE continues to throw in even more powercreep when they have said on stream that mods were a mistake.

Edited November 15, 2016 by SurrealEdge

[Hitexh]

1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said:

It's just the absurdity of how the system is. I dislike it, for the reasons given already as it doesn't help the game in any meaningful way aside from making a set of strong weapons even stronger.

Buffing or nerfing the weapons won't change anything when DE continues to throw in even more powercreep when they have said on stream that mods were a mistake.

Me too, I also dislike the system, but not the mod. I like Riven Mod.

The problem is, majority dont like Riven Mod, and encourage it to be beneficial only to some weapons. With this discussion we had, I hope DE can consider that to change the current problem is to direct buff on the underused weapons.

[ashrah]

mods are good u just need to beat rngeus to get good roll for wepon u wish....i need for vectis mag size- base dmg+ crit dmg+ crit chance+ and i will chase it until i dont get it^

[Pro3Display]

the way this goes is wrong

the idea behind riven mods is good

implementation is bad

you dislike the system but you like riven mods

riven mods are the system- the system that fails to perform its intended function

instead of leveling the meta it just pushed it 20 levels higher

example:

200% damage for braton    200% damage for tonkor

damage changed? yes

actual difference achieved? no

Edited November 15, 2016 by Pro3Display

[blackheartstar_pc]

I for one love these mods.