Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Horonelius]

8 minutes ago, Shifted said:

tap E whle aiming at a target to stab that singular target

We have that, its called Fatal Teleport and Covert Lethality.

[marshmellory]

the main problem that most people have is it didn't change the really problematic part of bladestorm, which was that you're just watching a slideshow. the ability is the same thing, there's just a few extra steps to boot up the slideshow. if that part could be changed (maybe the clones only go off instead of ash himself) then the rework would be perfect in my eyes.

[Vifany]

14 minutes ago, achromos said:

You aren't forced to use just Smokebomb. 

Im forced to use invis. And only reliable invis I have is smokebomb because kubrow/sentinel invis works only when some requiremnts are met and naramon invis is purely random. So im forced to use smokebomb while playing without Ivara in team.

14 minutes ago, achromos said:

Heck even with the build I have I have no primed flow on and I can easily enough use Smokebomb and then swipe the room.

I can swipe the room with any meta-gun using any frame I like, it still not makes that frames usefull or convinient. Kinda boring doesn't it?

Edited November 26, 2016 by Vifany
Shamefull mitsake

[Bacl]

The rework on BS is a tad bs but the rest of his kit is much better thus far.

Blde Storm cost too much and is clunky to use. Its not gonna happen but one thing that could have been fun would be the cloning gimmick: Activating BS would summon both clone ( maybe raise the number with power str) and channel the ability to have the clone attack enemies around you. They would be as strong as they are not but they would attarct aggro from you.

But yeah i know its not going to happen. On a more serious note however the new marking gimmick could be a small 5m marking AoE and refund energy on kills. His passive could be changed to gain energy on kills period.

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, (PS4)RNickS_BRASIL said:

- Bladestorm mark mode will be terrible using Console Controller we saw how bad this is when Megan played this on Primetime 144 even her have troubles using the new BS ''THE MARK SYSTEM NEEDS CHANGE'' don't need to be 4 to win but give us less energy cost and a better way to spam this ability DE / Plus the animation supposed to be the focus of this rework but ...

I will test this since I use a controller to play on PC.  Doesn't seem like as big an issue as some might be suggesting.  I'll find out for sure in a few minutes.  :D

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added info

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, TheGoodDarius said:

Dude, you are literally encouraged to cast Bladestorm while in the safety of the invisibility of Smokescreen, it even costs less energy!

Totally this^

"but muh max pwr strength /negative duration build bruh" 

Said no BS ash player ever. 

50 minutes ago, Vifany said:

Frankly if DE merge 2nd and 4th together and add some other *@##$ ninja move istead 2nd it will be quiet nice.

That would only make smoke bomb redundant and BullSS#&$ Bladestorm even more broken than before.

1 hour ago, pyrocraziac said:

As observable in the rest of the game, there are no abilities that put the player in as much danger to use. Even Mesa has shatter shield to compensate for being immobilized while using her ultimate.

And ash retains full mobility, his whole weapon set, and has smoke bomb, giving a reason to build towards duration too.

And I personally run Ash prime with 150 energy since way before the rework and have never had energy issues.

[ashrah]

i just test 1h solo on kuva fortess with my build ash is actually pretty good this is my build... naramon...2x arcane trickery set...aura  energy syphon..exilus rush.transient fortitude.primed continuity.vitality.natural talent.fatal teleport.streamline rank4.fleeting rank..smoke scrren last 8 sec witch is more then enough...

[ijustwanttomakeanamebrah]

1 hour ago, BronzeWolf said:

Again I feel that discretion is advised since if your team can kill all of your marked targets then it isn't the time or place to use Bladestorm.

I always thought the point of Ash was a solo stealth frame. Using Ash's 4 in a xp co-op is just a d*ck move, and using it in a def farm is a time-waster at high levels, but anywhere else it shouldn't really matter.

If they kept the targeting system but made his clones do the actual attack this rework would be a buff, but right now this is a huge nerf.

Edited November 26, 2016 by ijustwanttomakeanamebrah
rewording

[(PSN)RNickS_BRASIL]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I will test this since I use a controller to play on PC.  Doesn't seem like as big an issue as some might be suggesting.  I'll find out for sure in a few minutes.  :D

Please post feedback soon as you can ...

[BronzeWolf]

7 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

That incentive is not enough, far from it... Like i said, if its hardly at par with just weapons, why use it besides the 'I kind of like it' argument. it takes more time to build up the marks than it would to just kill said enemies, that is a problem.

And then again, when will that time come? Weapons do more dmg than your ulti, and they do not need as much hassle to do so... By that line of thought, ''the right time'' will never come.

If the enemy dies the moment you look at them you might want to try a place that has enemies of a higher level since the gear you're using is much stronger than the level the enemies are fighting.

I like to play Equinox and she is a proactive frame, when I join a mission and I see that there is a Frost and a Slova I know it is not the time or place to use Peaceful Pacify. In the same vein if I join a mission and there is an Ash, Mesa, and Excalibur I know it is not the time or place to use Maim.

So if you see twenty level 10 enemies is it the time or place to use Bladestorm or your other weapons? If you see twenty level 100 enemies is it the time or place to use Bladestorm or your other weapons?

[(PSN)VanHorstmann90]

Let's try to be serious for a moment.
Ash has not been nerfed but Bladestorm rework is a bad rework.

The problem is that Bladestorm still is a negative experience for the player, if you want to be a minimum effective at least.
The animation is really painful to watch and now we moved from "press 4 to win" to "press 4, frantically move the mouse back and forth, press 4 to win".

It's fine to slowly move the mouse only if you're playing a level 25 mission solo. Try sorties with a team, then you tell me.

Motion sickness is a thing, I can assure you that, and Ash rework has not helped at all. Thing have just got worse.
We need Ash to stay in player's control while clones do their thing, we need Bladestorm to become a stealth ability (on unalerted enemies, of course).

Do you want it not to be a press 4 to win? Just let Ash spawn 4 clones that act on their own performing fatal teleport and using smoke bombs on enemies.
It slows down the nuke effect and the player has still to manage Ash alive for survavibility.

Oh, I almost forgot.... Rework the damn shuriken, it's almost as useless as Nova's and Mesa's first abilities.

[Hallykon]

The changes for smoke bomb and teleport were really nice but bladestorm in particular is worse  than ever.

Having to flail your mouse over a group of enemies like you have mad parkinson's should not be the most effective way to mark a group of enemies and still doesnt solve the issue of players having to sit through a lengthy nausea-inducing cinematic each time.

IMO bladestorm still needs a complete redesign and some more synergy between abilities like ash's shuriken doing more damage over time while in smoke screen would be nice too.

[ijustwanttomakeanamebrah]

1 minute ago, BronzeWolf said:

So if you see twenty level 10 enemies is it the time or place to use Bladestorm or your other weapons? If you see twenty level 100 enemies is it the time or place to use Bladestorm or your other weapons?

In general, why does this matter? Only in some situations will your team be mad you're hogging all the kills, and if it's not def the ttk doesn't matter either.

[Exth]

I woke up, log in the game, and Ash is still $h17. This is sooo sad....

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

2 hours ago, BronzeWolf said:

My bias.

I personally prefer to use duration builds on Ash, so this rework was a buff to my playstyle when I play Ash.

That makes 2 of us , if anything i wouldn't mind a tone down about the energy x mark used but that would be a plus, i think this new bs should be a complement to our arsenal since we are being able to still shoot or melee while marking, not a substitute like the old " pistol only sortie 3 survival, and some ashes never even shot 1 magazine lmfao " on a personal preference i'm finding the redeemer quite amusing cus with a few shots since every pellets adds +1 to the counter you can ramp up that combo counter to 3x etc sooooo fast that even with 130 strenght, lvl's 100's+ go down like paper cards, if anything is still alive after those redeemer hits while invisible that is....

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, Elyann said:

Smokescreen

his 2

You shouldn't be forced using it

The game doesn't force anyone to use Smokescreen while marking, it just gives a benefit to doing so.

Going back to your complaints of energy issues, though. You might be having energy issues, but there are many, many players on the Forums who are not having issues. Logically, this means that the problem is in something you are doing (or not doing) and is not an issue with Ash. If you're not sure how to correctly manage his Energy, ask a player who has been able to.

Try Checking This Place Out

[BronzeWolf]

1 minute ago, ijustwanttomakeanamebrah said:

In general, why does this matter? Only in some situations will your team be mad you're hogging all the kills, and if it's not def the ttk doesn't matter either.

The point I was trying to make is that if the effective health of an enemy is lower than the dps of your weapon it is not the time to use an armor ignoring ability. However if the effective health of an enemy is higher than your dps it is time to use the armor ignoring ability.

[KIREEK]

I don't have ash and i never played with him, but i believe the current iteration would be only viable for really high end content where your team can't kill easily, if it can kill them easily then bladestorm is useless, because in general your teammates and even your own weapons do better.

Here's my idea on how bladestorm could be fun, usefull and even be rewarded based on effort overall.

Bladestorm could summon specters (not dumb ai specters that strafe, don't fire, go revive stuff, block,....) that would have by default a skana equiped, but would use your own melee weapon to deal extra damage, procs and elementals.

These specters (that come out of you in all direction) would go toward enemies and deal combos and attacks with the melee weapon, no blocking, no strafing, they would charge the enemy straight on with no hesitation, don't make them do dodges or anything silly.

• Health and default damage would scale of str mods
• if you are in a sniper only mission, the ability (just like peacemaker) would work, but would deal reduced damage.
• duration affects the duration of shadows
• cost of the ability is 100 by default, meaning that fleeting expertise reduces duration, making it fair
• range doesn't affect them
• They do not draw agro, the ability is supposed to do damage, the idea is to make something that would suprise the enemies, so the shadows need to deal damage before they die, if they have agro enemies might kill them before they get a chance to strike.
• each rank of the ability increases default damage, duration, health and number of clones
• melee mods would carry over, increasing the default damage, using procs and elementals as a way to diversify the attack (more or less CC, more or less damage), the more effort you have in selecting the melee weapon and getting the right mods (no chaneling), the beter the results

This means that these shadows would change from player to player and the ability itself can be implemented in stalker as one the abilities he can use.

Just imagine, augmented corpus shields sortie and an ash player selecting a toxin oriented melee weapon to use in said sortie, imagine the possibilities with the current melee weapons.

The ability would work similar to the duality mod from equinox, so the base concept is there already, this isn't something you would have to do as new content for the engine you guys use, there are a few details to have in mind:

• no multiplier involved, it's a flat damage + melee damage (it can't be as powerfull as a 15 second duality specter, it can't last the same time and it can't just spawn 1 shadow, so it's not a strick copy and paste from duality)
• shadows come from you from all directions, they don't spawn 2 meters ahead like a specter ball would, it's important to give a visual notion to the player that they come from you, you are not summoning an army
• easy to balance, you can mess with the number of shadows, you can increase or decrease speed of said shadows (among other stats) and the ability would scale off the player overall effort with warframe and melee mods, so the ability has 4 ranks but it in the end it's customizable and gets stronger at the same rate as the player overall, similar to exalted blade from excallibur.
• these shadows can't behave like normal specters, so a change in behavior so that they don't block and do other silly nonsense is fundamental so you have an incentive to use the ability, becuse you want proc corrosive, spread radiation, deal high amounts of damage with a hammer, do quick magnetic attacks with an obex and so on.
• Shadows copy your warframe and weapon collors, but not cosmetics so that the performance isn't affected much.
• Camera doesn't follow the shadows, it stays the same, less visual repetition.

 

That's my idea

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by KIREEK

[Vifany]

 

17 minutes ago, -----LegioN----- said:

even more broken than before.

Why? 4th remains same, but instead of pressing 2 to get invis and afterwards press 4 to prepare bladestorm you will only press 4 to became invisible and ready jumping mode (inital activation cost should be increased, obviously). It will be much more convinient I think. Also they will be able to rework smokebomb into something more interesting than simpe stun+invis.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Vifany

[DatDarkOne]

19 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I will test this since I use a controller to play on PC.  Doesn't seem like as big an issue as some might be suggesting.  I'll find out for sure in a few minutes.  :D

 

 

11 minutes ago, (PS4)RNickS_BRASIL said:

Please post feedback soon as you can ...

Just got done testing BS for the first time and using a controller while doing it.  Marking targets wasn't hard at all with a controller.  It was easier than shooting at the enemies.  I was able to completely control what was effected by BladeStorm, and also kill enemies at range quite well.  Using the controller, I was able to go into BS, target multiple enemies, and then finish them all within a few seconds.  Energy didn't seem to be as big a factor as I was spamming BS from the beginning of the mission without much trouble (without using energy pizzas or Zenurik).  I will admit that this might or might not be a problem in longer missions.

This is just to give an update on how it really is using reworked Bladestorm with a controller.  I found it to be more enjoyable IMO to play now.  Instead of using it as a panic button or press-4-to-win, it's more engaging.  I haven't used it with a group yet as I did my little test solo. 

 

P.S.  decided to make a new post for your convenience instead of editing my previous post.  :D

[K4r4k4s4]

Ash don't needs protection while marking with bladestorm. He needs removing awful two-step ult activation and returning old one. But it will never happen bcoz DE doesn't want to do good rework they want nerf.

[kleerr2]

6 minutes ago, BronzeWolf said:

If the enemy dies the moment you look at them you might want to try a place that has enemies of a higher level since the gear you're using is much stronger than the level the enemies are fighting.

I never suggested that my argument is based on low lvl enemies.

8 minutes ago, BronzeWolf said:

I like to play Equinox and she is a proactive frame, when I join a mission and I see that there is a Frost and a Slova I know it is not the time or place to use Peaceful Pacify. In the same vein if I join a mission and there is an Ash, Mesa, and Excalibur I know it is not the time or place to use Maim.

Ugh, no... you are going to keep Maim up as much as possible for its CC and dmg, possibly switch to heal if urgent, shoot/melee enemies, and thats it... Please don't go there, and make it seem like every warframe should have a specific strict role they should cater to, like in some kind of mmorpg, or like you are playing a strategy game, you just aren't... you are going to put out as much effectivness aspossible whenever you can/want.

13 minutes ago, BronzeWolf said:

So if you see twenty level 10 enemies is it the time or place to use Bladestorm or your other weapons? If you see twenty level 100 enemies is it the time or place to use Bladestorm or your other weapons?

Oh, pardon me, could you remind me what lvl enemies the meta weapons can kill again, and compare their effectiveness to that of Bladestorm...

[SquidTheSid]

54 minutes ago, Messaiga said:

Shuriken: Rather than have elemental shurikens, why not just shurikens that inflict different physical damage?  Slash shurikens deal more damage (Slash proc), Puncture shurikens make enemies deal less damage (Puncture proc), and Impact shurikens knock them over (Impact proc).  Shurikens deal 100% of their damage as the selected physical damage.

 

I'd say that Fire/Viral/Gas are a lot more useful than Puncture/Impact because of the procs. Personally, if I had the choice of IPS, I'd always go for Slash. 

 

55 minutes ago, Messaiga said:

Bladestorm: Your idea is an improvement over the current, but why not go further?  Essentially, what if you could cast Shuriken instead of casting Bladestorm again to consume all of the marks in exchange for throwing 1/2/3 (scales with Ash's level) Shurikens at every marked target.  All of the shurikens will match the player's selected Shuriken type and each will inflict the same damage as a cast of Shuriken with a 100% status proc.  

 

So we're throwing 3 Shurikens at a target for each mark? So up to 9? 

[Vibranium]

 

Ash had been my favorite frame for about 2 years, but after the rework I find him personally no longer great, which will now dust in my arsenal. Instead, I will now play with Nyx until her also enters the ton.

 

 

Why do not you do this with the "rework", which allows the players to choose whether they want to play the original or new configuration and can adjust from frame to frame. At least as long as the game is still a beta.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Vibranium

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

43 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

Because theres already a lot of Exalted Abilities ._.

Why dont people like exalted weapons i love going into super sayin mode on valk or super awesome weeb main character mode with excaliber pulling out is powered up sword