[DE]: Can We Please Remove Syndicate AoE Explosions?

[Tizodd]

The energy, health, and shield buffs are fine, but the AoE explosions are too much.  With the introduction of Riven mods, frame reworks, and all the balancing [DE] has been promoting lately, syndicate weapons with explosive procs throw balance off.

I'm MR22 and have been playing the game for a while now, so I am aware that at higher levels, the AoE explosion isn't as powerful.  But at low-mid levels, I often opt to bring a syndicate weapon just for that extra no-effort damage (especially the Arbiters proc).  I love my Braton P and Prisma Grakata, but I often find myself choosing the Telos Boltor, Synoid Simulor, Vaykor Hek, Supra, etc. solely for that extra dps from the explosion.

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but the syndicate AoE explosion just feels like too much in a game striving for balance.

disclaimer: I know the cool internet catchphrases (whiny, salty, etc) and this post is not reflective of any of them.  I'm not whining, I'm not salty, and I'm not any other cool internet term people throw out whenever they disagree with a person.  I'm simply expressing my opinion...if it differs from yours that's fine, we're allowed to have differences of opinion.  But please keep the immature labeling to a minimum and feel free to reply if you have something constructive to add.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

Edited November 30, 2016 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[Catacomb]

Nah keep them

[Proxykon]

Am I understanding this right, you want the AoE explosions removed, because they deal too much damage on low to mid-tier levels?

If you feel like they are too strong, maybe show some restriction and don't bring them to every mission. The solution to this problem rests with you, in my opinion.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Proxykon

[Insizer]

Thank you I'm glad someone else hates syndicate bursts. They are annoying and pathetic excuses for a special feature, that sound on paper like something a 3rd grader would come up with ("You shoot enemies and everything goes booom!"). I'd do away with them entirely. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Insizer

[DoomFruit]

The extra damage - and the procs - from the explosion are why I take syndicate weapons even at high levels. They've already been powercrept (see: sancti and prime tigrises) and the game already considers them to be advanced gear (required mastery rank 12 for primaries), we don't need nerf herders actively weakening them.

[tris1]

no way!

 

[trunks013]

This will turn into an opinion debate.

How about a configuration that allow tenno to chose if you want your weapons to proc it or not.

Then all tenno can chose if they want it or not.

The parameter could give the buff but not the explosion or the explosion with the buffs ^.^ 

How about that ?

[Insizer]

3 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The extra damage - and the procs - from the explosion are why I take syndicate weapons even at high levels. They've already been powercrept (see: sancti and prime tigrises) and the game already considers them to be advanced gear (required mastery rank 12 for primaries), we don't need nerf herders actively weakening them.

You could replace the bursts with temporary Damage buffs or temporary guaranteed additional procs from the guns themselves rather than have them set off a bomb. Granted, it sounds like OP might be against that as well.

[-N7-Leonhart]

I am usually civilized, but sometimes when I see threads like this one I am like: "How about fuc*ing no"?

[shadrad]

While the extra damage is helpful in mid-to-high level missions, it's balanced out by the fact that it's based on affinity gained in the mission (not always on kills, so not always under your control) and that many mission types (spy and rescue, specifically) it's actually risky to have it equipped as you might unintentionally trigger alarms or piss off wardens and such.

While I used one almost exclusively for mid-level missions when I started being competent on my own as a player, I never take them on missions these days specifically for that proc at all-- often the weapon itself, after formas and proper modding, is just honestly a good weapon to use for killing in certain missions.

And honestly, the AOE damage doesn't do enough at higher levels to be particularly useful (moreso than any other ability), so I don't think it's unbalanced-- and the MR locking prevents it from being used to carry brand new players through the early content. So, I disagree that it's unbalanced.

Also thank you OP for writing a thoughtful opinion (even if I personally disagree) and not just throwing hyperbole and insults to the devs out needlessly. Definitely notice and appreciate that stuff :)

[Tizodd]

11 minutes ago, Insizer said:

Thank you I'm glad someone else hates syndicate bursts. They are annoying and pathetic excuses for a special feature, that sound on paper like something a 3rd grader would come up with ("You shoot enemies and everything goes booom!"). I'd do away with them entirely. 

Exactly how I feel.  The AoE is effortless damage...just...because.

10 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The extra damage - and the procs - from the explosion are why I take syndicate weapons even at high levels. They've already been powercrept (see: sancti and prime tigrises) and the game already considers them to be advanced gear (required mastery rank 12 for primaries), we don't need nerf herders actively weakening them.

Actually, many of the syndicate weapons are considered sidegrades because of the AoE explosion.  The progression in terms of power should be [normal weapon] > [syndicate/prisma/vandal/etc] version > [prime] imo.  Powercreep shouldn't really be an issue in the case of a prime vs another version.  Primes are supposed to be the mosy powerful...not sidegrades.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Tizodd
typo

[0zryel]

6 minutes ago, Proxykon said:

Am I understanding this right, you want the AoE explosions removed, because they deal too much damage on low to mid-tier levels?

If you feel like they are too strong, maybe show some restriction and don't bring them to every mission. The solution to this problem rests with you, in my opinion.

This...Also:

[shadow0727]

11 minutes ago, Proxykon said:

Am I understanding this right, you want the AoE explosions removed, because they deal too much damage on low to mid-tier levels?

If you feel like they are too strong, maybe show some restriction and don't bring them to every mission. The solution to this problem rests with you, in my opinion.

+1

 

If you dont like jumping into low level missions and having the syndicate proc going off frequently, bring something else. Complaining about a weapon you use all the time is like complaining that too many people speed on the highway, while your doing 180kph.

 

Also, given that these weapons require you to farm an abundance of credits, materials, a reactor or catalyst, and prime parts + standing (with a daily cap), you deserve to use a weapon that will nuke all low-mid level enemies.

[Tizodd]

6 minutes ago, Insizer said:

You could replace the bursts with temporary Damage buffs or temporary guaranteed additional procs from the guns themselves rather than have them set off a bomb. Granted, it sounds like OP might be against that as well.

This would actually be a decent compromise.  I don't like the AoE explosion because it's effortless damage to a huge group of enemies.  Adding extra weapon damage would still involve aiming the weapon and shooting it so I'd be all for it.

[marelooke]

What might help is to make them scale to the enemies so they don't one shot everything in low-level missions but can still apply their respective procs.

28 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

Exactly how I feel.  The AoE is effortless damage...just...because.

Actually, many of the syndicate weapons are considered sidegrades because of the AoE explosion.  The progression in terms of power should be [normal weapon] > [syndicate/prisma/vandal/etc] version > [prime] imo.  Powercreep shouldn't really be an issue in the case of a prime vs another version.  Primes are supposed to be the mosy powerful...not sidegrades.

While what you say is seemingly the current state of the game  power levels between non-primes and primes weren't actually supposed to vary much, and certainly not to the extent of making the non-primes entirely useless. Primes were supposed to be sidegrades or minor upgrades (as evidenced by the original stats of the old primes, Braton Prime being the, err, prime example). 

DE however started to powercreep the Primes likely because they were starting to introduce more and more new variants (the Wraiths etc) of the same weapons to make people participate in events without having to necessarily think up new weapons. Since these were, mechanically, the same weapon, they had to be more powerful than the regular version, but that meant the Primes needed to be even more powerful because some people paid real money for those through prime access... (if you go look into Warframe history you'll notice that Prime power creep started really getting out of hand around the time Prime Access was introduced, Rhino Prime and Boltor Prime being the most memorable examples, though the majority of Primes since has followed suit. Indeed, people now expect this and there tends to be quite the outrage if a Prime doesn't dwarf the regular version).

Note that for Warframes this still somewhat holds, generally the improvements to Prime Warframes are minor and they seldom touch on the core stats of the frame in a game changing way (if they touch these stats at all). Eg. having the extra armor on Valkyr Prime isn't exactly a game changer as it will be barely noticeable in practice.

Different weapons were supposed to differ mostly by their mechanics the thing DE now is trying to return to, while still retaining and somehow balancing all the power-creepy mess introduced in-between.

The point of recalling this bit of history is mostly that some of the things you claim as self-evident, aren't; it's more something that got away from DE partly due to their own doing and partly due to expectations players have due to other games they play.

Edited November 30, 2016 by marelooke

[Insizer]

6 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

This would actually be a decent compromise.  I don't like the AoE explosion because it's effortless damage to a huge group of enemies.  Adding extra weapon damage would still involve aiming the weapon and shooting it so I'd be all for it.

That's one of my biggest issues with Syndicate Bursts (my term for the AOE explosion), they are ridiculous conceptually. You shoot enemies to charge up a rechargeable, built-in bomb... You really can't get more anticlimactic kills/ create more effortless damage than that, other than perhaps a kill aura. It doesn't affect the gun or make it, itself any better. It only shows that the weapon was jerryrigged with a nearly independent system. It only makes the gun slave to the burst meter. Other issues include that the bursts still causes issues as the burst is not controllable unless you purposely switch weapons to save the burst for later, you often finish an enemy crowd and then have the burst detonate.

I would suggest replacing syndicate bursts with syndicate gun buffs that temporarily buff gun damage and/or give the guns temporary additional innate procs. This buffs the gun itself, making the gun better "under its own power" rather than relying on a jerryrigged bomb. I'd also make it so that buffs activate upon you firing rather than once the meter is filled. This makes the additional system slave to the gun and user and not the other way 'round. 

[AutoPhox]

I'm for replacing the burst with a short weapon buff. Mostly because I like using some of the syndicate weapons/augments in stealth missions. But, the boom cancels the stealth multiplier.

[Xebov]

33 minutes ago, AutoPhox said:

I'm for replacing the burst with a short weapon buff. Mostly because I like using some of the syndicate weapons/augments in stealth missions. But, the boom cancels the stealth multiplier.

They said they wanted to work on that in a stream months ago. However nothing has happened.

[Kalvorax]

your playing a horde game.....the procs are great for wiping the fodder....and useless when there are buffer type enemies around...and like other people have said...dont like it dont use it.

now that being said, I wouldnt mind if they gave us a toggle for the damage explosion as the effects are sometime normalyl really good....though the radiation from Sequence procs is great for screwing up Ancient auras for a short time.

[WhyNotBro]

What is wrong with you, people?!?!!?

I'm sorry, but remove yourself from playing with something you don't like,sigh!
Simple solution for you: do not use those weapons. Proc happens not so often, so it is not a big deal, i belive you are strong enough to endure this pain.

Really, guess people starting to forget what game we are playing -_-

Edited November 30, 2016 by WhyNotBro

[Pixues]

Not removing.

But manually detonating please.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Pixues said:

Not removing.

But manually detonating please.

This. How many stealth spy missions failed because of a syndicate explosion?

[WhyNotBro]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

This. How many stealth spy missions failed because of a syndicate explosion?

Zero. Proc doesn't trigger anything.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

7 minutes ago, WhyNotBro said:

Zero. Proc doesn't trigger anything.

It does, or at least did, if it damaged them but didn't do enough damage to kill them.