Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[schilds]

I have a suggestion for you, how about you keep your talk to game mechanics instead of other people. It really does not help your argument or credibility.

 

And that what someone says is their opinion goes without saying. Why do you keep uselessly repeating it? If you have nothing useful to add to a conversation, consider waiting until you do before posting.

Edited December 6, 2016 by schilds

[Arniox]

On 12/5/2016 at 5:12 PM, Nazrethim said:

This would require a simple tweak: make mirage clones no longer produce singularities or blasts.

^This would deff work. Cause it wouldn't nerf the actual weapon. Just nerf the insane synergy. Another way would simply be not allowing mirage to use the simulor at all.

[texrei]

1 hour ago, Jackviator said:

>implying a frame that can restore massive amounts of energy within milliseconds while simultaneously providing overshields and doing endlessly scaling %-based health damage with the touch of a button, PLUS being able to instantly heal all allies within 50m to full health+shields and make them all take 25% of the damage they take usually for a decent amount of time with the touch of another button... is useless.

k.

I mean if that's "useless" to you, if you honestly believe that, I really don't know what to tell you.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Let's face it. A frame that got rid of 99% of the damage one takes was bound to get nerfed sooner or later, and let's be real here: she totally deserved it. It trivialized LOR and Sorties to a ridiculous degree.

Come on, she's not that good. If you run specifically EV Trinity with low duration - you have no damage reduction at all.

If you run something balanced, your EV doesn't deal so much damage per time, so you need to take a strong weapon (i usually choose Tigris). And you know what? Even with overshields, link and 75% reduction from ult you die pretty fast. She supposed to be very survivable, but she's not. DE have to give her something decent instead of old 99% reduction, maybe rework her 1 skill or increase the link/blessing reduction. If i want to keep my team alive i have many other frames who do this better, because of great CC or full invulnerability.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

2 hours ago, Jackviator said:

I wish it were possible to favorite forum posts. This would definitely be present in my personal list.

lol Thank you 

[JustSneaky]

The more i read this topic, the more im inclining to nerf/change argument (either Spamulor or HoM) and at the start the only thing i wanted is reduce visual clutter. Their replies seems way more reasonable, based on facts and rational logic. The "spamulor" replies seems like kids who don't want to share lunch in preschool cafeteria, no offense. Also, there are clearly users, who use it, because they suffer from god complex, inferiority complex or simply burned out of game and want to breeze through it without any initiative to actually play it. Great example is this post ↓

12 hours ago, 5HV3N said:

Oh boy, this thread is pure gold. Last time I saw salt mine of that magnitude was in one of old "nerf valkyr" threads, ash ones didn't even come close to it.

 

Regardless, here I am. I barely ever use anything other than mirage with simulor in sorties. And ofc, I do run public matchmaking every time (unless mission is rescue/spy or sth else that's best dealt with solo, then I bring another cheeze dukes like loki and limbo).

Why I risk going in and "ruining fun" of other players?
focus. more people means more enemies spawn which translates to more focus, and since draco is gone I failed to find acceptable spot to even bother trying when I feel like it.

It's also easiest way of dealing with sorties. I'm not a tryhard, I don't need to prove anything to me or anyone else. I spent enough time on this game to not care much about gameplay anymore, I just want my pretty junk I don't need or even want. With riven circus being in play, grabbing them from sorties and hoping for good one is easiest revenue of plat.

Simple as that, I want my payout, I don't play sorties for challenge. Or even fun in most cases tbh. 

And as suprising as it may sound to some people in this thread I never saw anyone complaining about me bringing mirage to mission.(exept that one time when I forgot to change to solo mode when running some low level alert... boy, that was one salty tenno)

But big woop, most people I know of play for reward, not for glory of beating mission while gimping themselves.

And when this combo will get nerfed... And it will, my simulor butchers everything with 7 mods equipped and one of them is as low as rank 1, I'll proceed to use next thing that'll allow me to deal with that pesky content with as little effort as possible. And make no mistake, there always will be next op broken thing out there.
And this'll make any difference only to people who genuinely enjoy playing mirage in her current state for reasons other than simulor.

I mean, if you are at this point, you should reconsider if you want to play this game anymore or start playing another.

Edited December 6, 2016 by JustSneaky

[DarthKadra]

Insta-perma-ban Mirage+Simulor and the annoying Boltaspinners! :-D Seriously, though, how do they not get super annoyed and bored themselves using that playstyle if you can call it one.

[Fast_98]

Okay just tried a couple of different build on the synoid simulor (no riven) here what I found out. It sucks against high level armoured grineer... yeah it take up to 15-20 seconds to kill a level 100 bombard or heavy gunner but takes 2 second to kill a powefist. Yeah it cause stagger but it useless if some thing hits you from the sides or if that heavy get pushed out and ground pounds/ shoots.

Then I tried it with mirage and average time to kill went to 7-10 seconds for a bombard... Yeah I'm just going to continue blaming mirage here.

Edit: Sorry was using my old prism build (when prism was op) and tried again with my HoM build and time to kill bombard went down to 5-7 seconds.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Fast_98

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

3 minutes ago, frohdoe said:

Insta-perma-ban Mirage+Simulor and the annoying Boltaspinners! :-D Seriously, though, how do they not get super annoyed and bored themselves using that playstyle if you can call it one.

 Right?! 

 

I can barely stand using the same frame for a few missions in a  row. 

[--RV--ohestnes]

My quick 2 cents; Simulor is lazy cheese. This isnt to be argued. Its not broken though, and there are other lazy cheeses to be had. Just nerf the sound and visual cancer of the weapon and ill be fine

[Pro3Display]

ya'll people nagging "broken this" "unfun that"

it is not "broken this" and "unfun that",

it's "broken everything" and "only funny first few times"

that's why people play warframe using lazy cheese

people use lazy cheese because they like the game but have not enough patience to deal with all the broken crap in a non-cheese way

for them it is tedious and unfun

they are interested in the result, not the process

there is a reason why veterans can cheese stuff and new-bro's not - new-bro's are not yet tired of the tedious gameplay warframe offers

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pro3Display

[----Mr.Meow----]

Aloha!!

Finaly and big Thankyou to  (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk who start this topic. I'm a old player and mostly taking primes to missions (all of them), but still i like any weapon in the game (even spamulor? nice name) this given to everyone have ther own gameplay stile (+ to DE). Anyway i hate when someone using and spaming something (c'mon you want old Void cameback? with 1 toggle surv like 4-5 hours?) 

MIrage good frame and i like (as i said) Simulor ( mostly for ho it's looks) and if you want to exployd the game it's your chose but pleace do it with friends or solo ( ye i'm playing like that) for this "problem" i have a idea: remove from mirage copys any AoE affects (blast of simulor, tonkor and ect.) and for Simulor make normal shooting(bables) and charging("vortex") and let it take 5 ammo.

14 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

there is a reason why veterans cheese stuff and new-bro's not - new-bro's are not yet tired of the tedious gameplay warframe offers

3500 hours, don't used tonkor at all. Some of veterans love play for fun (let's go surv 3 hour for fun? pfff let's do this) that how i'm spending my day with friend

Have a nice timeplay MEOW :3

 

[Doc-Orange]

25 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

people use lazy cheese because they like the game but have not enough patience to deal with all the broken crap in a non-cheese way

for them it is tedious and unfun

there is a reason why veterans cheese stuff and new-bro's not - new-bro's are not yet tired of the tedious gameplay warframe offers

When you are a experienced player you use all game mechanics to your advantage. You use wall runs, powers, weapons in a way which fits the game perfectly. This is a reason why veteran players use all the possibilities - they know them and know how to use them.

I'm playing a lot. I had never problems with team members using the Simulor and/or Mirage. I let them play their game and they let me play my game. So again a strong vote against a Simulor / Mirage nerf.

Simulor is not my main. It's Hek and nowadays Amprex.

[Pro3Display]

21 minutes ago, ---Mr.Meow--- said:

3500 hours, don't used tonkor at all. Some of veterans love play for fun (let's go surv 3 hour for fun? pfff let's do this) that how i'm spending my day with friend

Have a nice timeplay MEOW :3

 

i didn't say ALL veterans, did i? and even the most boring game can be fun with friends that's for sure

8 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

When you are a experienced player you use all game mechanics to your advantage. You use wall runs, powers, weapons in a way which fits the game perfectly. This is a reason why veteran players use all the possibilities - they know them and know how to use them.

I'm playing a lot. I had never problems with team members using the Simulor and/or Mirage. I let them play their game and they let me play my game. So again a strong vote against a Simulor / Mirage nerf.

Simulor is not my main. It's Hek and nowadays Amprex.

oh you seem to be misinterpretting me voting for a simulor nerf

no i say stop nagging about simulor nerf and start nagging about how the game is broken as a whole- 

armor/enemy scaling, damage scaling, etc - this sort of stuff.

people ask balance where there is no base for one.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pro3Display

[-CCC-Secret]

7 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

Simulor is not my main. It's Hek and nowadays Amprex.

Hush, my child. Let them not discover how well that weapon goes with Mirage.

[Nameless]

i wont go far into this topic but. If you play an pub match prepare for anything and dontt complaing if X player doesnt suit your playstyle. YOU chose to do it with randoms. You also arent forced to leave the mission. I dont like mirage+simulor either but if another player enjoys the weapon and you dont after you joined an random game deal with it. You can communicate and ask him to stop if he refuses you can abort.

it would be another story if you invited people to your squad saying no mirage+simulor in the recruit message and then somoene uses it. in that case the person spamming simulor is at fault.

 

TL:DR:
communicate to ask if the mirage with simulor will stop spamming. if he says no deal with it YOU chose an public mission with randoms after all. if you cant deal with it abort, your not forced to stay in the mission.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Nameless816

[----Mr.Meow----]

14 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

i didn't say ALL veterans, did i? and even the most boring game can be fun with friends that's for sure

nope, just for example. Sorry if i say something that touch you.Ye you right about friends

We don't have any more Endgame ( only some endless stuff fi you want to) so what the reason for Spam?

[-CCC-Secret]

12 minutes ago, ---Mr.Meow--- said:

We don't have any more Endgame ( only some endless stuff fi you want to) so what the reason for Spam?

Efficiency.

Some people want to finish missions as fast as they can because of stupid drop rates. Faster you are, the more missions you complete, the more you get the chance at a reward.

Can't really change people with those mindsets.

 

[--Q--Kyl0Ren]

On 12/5/2016 at 9:51 AM, (XB1)Oussii said:

No

Go play solo or leave a squad that has mirage

Stop this nerfing issues

Not everytime someone does not like a play style, they have to nerf it

BTW: what is yr favorite weapon / frame so i can push all my friends to demand for a nerf for it?

This^^

@(PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk I mean if you dont like such stuff then make your own team and go play or do it solo. Just cause you do not like the play doesnt mean some other players dont. What your saying is double edged sword please understand that. By nerfing you would be sucking the fun out of others who like playing it. What you suggest is a very selfish thing. 

Please tell me your fav play style im going to start posts on reddit and here demanding you nerf it.

Its also wonderful how there are so many issues thats needs to be addressed and good discussions yet this post gets so many comments xD

Edited December 6, 2016 by --Q--Kyl0Ren

[onieyez]

It's better to just tell that Mirage+simulor player to afk, and say that you'll carry him

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

On 5.12.2016 at 5:47 AM, Midrib said:

People are actually denying that Mirage+SSimulor is a problem...

Like how blind can you be to actually believe that, Its not even about playstyle, just her existance in a defense mission means you should just not do anything, even if you try to kill enemies a mirage+Simulor will destroy them for a fraction of the effort that you need.

The "If you dont like it then you should get out" argument.... Which ends up with nothing being fixed because everyone doesn't like something which results in all of us leaving.

If you dont like the suggestion that Mirage+Simulor should be nerfed then you should quit the forums... 10/10 best argument.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 hour ago, Pro3Display said:

they are interested in the result, not the process

the process = the game, though.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Here's a shift in perspective that may shed some light on why I believe this top-tier combo needs re-evaluated.  It could mean some adjusted numbers for Mirage's power and not just the spamulor because we all know the power creep will continue.

"NERF 1"

I love Volt.  "Back in the Day", Volt players revelled in the damage stack his shields provided.  For those of you who don't remember, you could stack endless shields and fire weapons through them that resulted in:

1.  Almost Universal Hitscan

2.  Damage multipliers into the MILLIONS.  

The thing is, it was awesomely effective and fun but not half as cancerous in terms of robbing squad mates of interactive play as Spamulor Mirage with a Mapwipe playstyle that acts like a scaling version of Saryn's pre-balanced Miasma.

These two features were changed.

"NERF 2"

Enter the Volt Rework.

These very same already downgraded shields, which are a game-defining power for Volt, received another change:  They were given a cast-cap.

The points to be made are these:

1.  Just because it is a game-defining power for a frame doesn't mean Mirage is above further changes. (See Volt, Saryn, Mirage)

2.  Just because a power and/or weapon has been changed once doesn't mean it's above further changes.

3.  A top-tier weapon can receive a slight change and still be top tier meta-worthy.

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Pro3Display]

27 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

the process = the game, though.

and this is why they play the game to get the result, not to enjoy the process, process doesn't bring them joy

on the second thought actually  you are wrong: game = process + result.

process without result is not worth participating.

but if result is enjoyable process can be worth participating in regardless of how fun the process is

worthiness of participating in unfun process realtively to enjoyment recieved from the result is purely subjective ofcource

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pro3Display

[ChuckMaverick]

31 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

and this is why they play the game to get the result, not to enjoy the process, process doesn't bring them joy

on the second thought actually  you are wrong: game = process + result.

process without result is not worth participating.

but if result is enjoyable process can be worth participating in regardless of how fun the process is

worthiness of participating in unfun process realtively to enjoyment recieved from the result is purely subjective ofcource

I play Warframe because I enjoy running around as a space ninja shooting things and blowing them up in interesting and fun ways.

What's the point of getting a new, shiny toy if you don't enjoy the experience of playing the game? I'd just quit if I ever felt like that.

Goals help to give focus to your play, and some sense of progress, but if you don't enjoy the process of achieving them, why bother?

[Currilicious]

No.

As much as I sometimes get irritated by this as well, I would prefer having the option to solo clear things lazily than not.