The sortie modifer that allows only a specific weapon type needs to change

[Kaokasalis]

Forcing us to use a specific a weapon type we may not like in a mission type its entirely unsuited for is annoying as hell and secondly it does not make a shred of sense lorewise. For example, any infested missions with the "Sniper only modifer" is just plain annoying. Its not hard, its not challenging, just plain annoying because the weapon is entirely unsuited for the swarm of melee enemies that the majority of the Infested consists of.

The reason for why the Sortie modifier does not make sense lorewise is because the game uses a term called "Archaic Weapons".

The most archaic weapons we have seems to be our bows, thrown weapons and melee weapons. I can understand that these mechanical disruptors can disable guns somehow but how exactly do you disable some of the most basic weapons in the game? It just does not make any sense to me. If our enemies can disable these weapons, then shouldn't the Sentients who by all means might be the most technically advanced faction since the Orokin got done in by us, have been capable of the same thing during the old war? Gameplay and story segregation often dont always mix but there have really been made an error here.

A fix could be to make it that the weapon disruptors block out all weapons apart from the specific weapon type and the most archaic weapons such as bows, thrown weapons (minus detonation throwables) and melee weapons (minus gunblades and glaives). Then we would not only have lore that made sense again but also not be entirely bottlenecked to a weapon we might not like using as there would at least be some more favorable choices.

[Lordckart]

I don't see the problem with this modifier, if it asks me to use a sniper against a swarm, as you said, i just grab myself a frame that can deal with that by itself. I don't mind the ''it doesn't make sense lorewise'' either. Make things a bit more complicated, and i like that.

[RawGritz]

The only really annoying scenario would be an infested survival Sortie that only requires bows and yet still doable. Take Excalibur and you still have your Exalted Blade for good range. Radial Blind and Exalted Blade FTW. Or take Ivara and use her 4th which scales off rifle mods. It's great for taking out huge swaths of enemies.

If you're standing in plain sight (you could also use a frame with invisibility or a Shade), with no multishot on your bow trying to take out enemies one at a time... Then yea, you've made things incredibly tedious for yourself. But there are so many other ways to dispatch enemies even on a bow-only Sortie.

Get creative Tenno!

Edited December 5, 2016 by RawGritz

[Sintag]

Two words.  Git gud.  Also the flavor text for these things handwaves it as mechanical disruptors.

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Two words.  Git gud.  Also the flavor text for these things handwaves it as mechanical disruptors.

"Git gud" only applies when it's a matter of skill, which this isn't, and even then it's a pointless comment to make.

7 minutes ago, RawGritz said:

The only really annoying scenario would be an infested survival Sortie that only requires bows and yet still doable. Take Excalibur and you still have your Exalted Blade for good range. Radial Blind and Exalted Blade FTW. Or take Ivara and use her 4th which scales off rifle mods. It's great for taking out huge swaths of enemies.

10 minutes ago, Lordckart said:

I don't see the problem with this modifier, if it asks me to use a sniper against a swarm, as you said, i just grab myself a frame that can deal with that by itself.

And a pattern emerges; invalidate the weapon modifier completely by taking a frame that ignores it.

If the subjective enjoyment factor of the modifier isn't a problem, the fact that it almost always encourages a workaround is definitely one.

Edited December 5, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[RawGritz]

6 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

"Git gud" only applies when it's a matter of skill, which this isn't, and even then it's a pointless comment to make.

And a pattern emerges; invalidate the weapon modifier completely by taking a frame that ignores it.

If the subjective enjoyment factor of the modifier isn't a problem, the fact that it almost always encourages a workaround is definitely one.

You don't understand the very point of the modifier is to figure out how to get around it or make it work for your playstyle?? Nowhere does it say, when the criteria asks for a single weapon, then you can do nothing else but use that weapon. You can use powers, sentinels etc... Just gotta think outside the box, which the criteria is actually pushing us toward.

Edited December 5, 2016 by RawGritz

[Hemmo67]

*yawn* again with this?

makes me cry :'l

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, RawGritz said:

You don't understand the very point of the modifier is to figure out how to get around it or make it work for your playstyle?? Nowhere does it say, when the criteria asks for a single weapon, then you can do nothing else but use that weapon. Good lord! Seriously?!

The idea of the modifier is most likely to make you adapt to using a specific weapon.

I highly doubt the intention was to make you adapt to completely negating the modifier.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

16 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Two words.  Git gud.  Also the flavor text for these things handwaves it as mechanical disruptors.

 Getting good has nothing to do with being forced to use a weapon you don't want to. That's like dueling in dojo and your opponent is using a gas ignis. And then you tell them to git gud when it's impossible to get past it, just like the modifier.

[Helljack84]

18 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

And a pattern emerges; invalidate the weapon modifier completely by taking a frame that ignores it.

Edited for a guide to everything in Warframe. 

[NekroArts]

You are aware that sorties are suppose to challenge us right?

[AdunSaveMe]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

 Getting good has nothing to do with being forced to use a weapon you don't want to. That's like dueling in dojo and your opponent is using a gas ignis. And then you tell them to git gud when it's impossible to get past it, just like the modifier.

Aside from that, it's also dreadfully uninteresting as a gameplay modifier.

[polarity]

I guess some people still haven't worked out what the 1,2,3,4 buttons are for, even by the time they've reached sorties.

These modifiers are good because they break the meta, otherwise 'endgame' would consist of little else but simulor and tonkor spam.

Edited December 5, 2016 by polarity

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, NekroArts said:

You are aware that sorties are suppose to challenge us right?

Let me know when taking a specific weapon type starts being a challenge, and not something that's easily ignored or negated by frame choice or specific weapons in those pools. Because right now, it really isn't much of a challenge, much less an interesting challenge.

[Clem2-TheClemening]

In my opinion, the infested are ideal for snipers due the large amount of highly visible priority targets, especially on excavation maps. That said, when everyone else has snipers and no AoE warframes...

[NekroArts]

20 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Let me know when taking a specific weapon type starts being a challenge, and not something that's easily ignored or negated by frame choice or specific weapons in those pools. Because right now, it really isn't much of a challenge, much less an interesting challenge.

Like I said, it's suppose to be.

[Inarticulate]

38 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

The idea of the modifier is most likely to make you adapt to using a specific weapon.

I highly doubt the intention was to make you adapt to completely negating the modifier.

The modifier is effectively "[weapon type], Warframe, and companion only". Being able to use the tools your Warframe has is as much a part of the modifier as not being able to use a weapon not of the specified weapon type.

You're not "negating" the modifier by using weapons generated by Warframe abilities instead of the specified weapon type.

[AdunSaveMe]

4 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

The modifier is effectively "[weapon type], Warframe, and companion only". Being able to use the tools your Warframe has is as much a part of the modifier as not being able to use a weapon not of the specified weapon type.

You're not "negating" the modifier by using weapons generated by Warframe abilities instead of the specified weapon type.

But you are. If you're not using the weapon, the modifier is meaningless. It's meant to make you use a weapon and it doesn't do that.

[KirukaChan]

Bow only isn't so bad since we have crossbows as well. Shotgun, Assault Rifle, Pistol and Melee categories all have an even broader selection of styles. Snipers kind of get the shaft here, since they're one-trick ponies, especially if it's a ridiculous mission type that requires wiping out hordes like Survival.

I will agree that it's pretty silly from a lore standpoint, though, especially since enemies are still able to use their usual weapons just fine.

What would make more sense lore-wise (although possibly screwing over players who aren't sitting on a giant arsenal even more than the current restrictions) is each faction disabling the weapons of all the other factions (i.e., you can only bring Grineer weapons against Grineer, etc.).

[Inarticulate]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

But you are. If you're not using the weapon, the modifier is meaningless. It's meant to make you use a weapon and it doesn't do that.

As I just said, the modifier is effectively "[weapon type], WARFRAME, and COMPANION only".

It's not meant to make you use a certain weapon. It's meant to prevent you from using other weapons.

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

1 minute ago, KirukaChan said:

I will agree that it's pretty silly from a lore standpoint, though, especially since enemies are still able to use their usual weapons just fine.

 

First of all, I wanna say that I haven't been playing this game for years, so I don't know all about the lore. However, it does seem like the whole story behind the game itself is not that huge and there have to be certain things that are not covered by lore at all and there SHOULD be quite a number of things that do not strictly follow the lore for the sake of not ruining the gameplay.

I don't get why everything inside the game has to be exactly according to what would make sense lore-wise and most of the time I see people bring up lore in this context is when they want something to change simply because they don't like it and have no actual arguments as to why something should be changed so it's like "i dont liek dis, its ruining the gaem for me and it haz to change (oh btw it also makes no sense lorewise so theres a good reason to change stuff to something id like more)"

Me, personally, I dont give a S#&$ about lore that much. I mean, sure, it's always nice that there's a story to follow while you're playing the game, but not all necessarily has to fit the storyline when it comes to the actual gameplay. (and only for the purpose of making the gameplay experience better)

 

[Helljack84]

I'll pick this modifier any day all the time over any radiation hazard/enhancement. Simulor Mirage makes them a pain.

[RawGritz]

35 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

But you are. If you're not using the weapon, the modifier is meaningless. It's meant to make you use a weapon and it doesn't do that.

It's meant to make you use that weapon and all the other tools that are allowed in that particular sortie. If those tools were not viable or allowed then their exclusion would be part of the criteria. What part of that is so hard to understand?

[JHarlequin]

1 hour ago, RawGritz said:

It's meant to make you use that weapon and all the other tools that are allowed in that particular sortie. If those tools were not viable or allowed then their exclusion would be part of the criteria. What part of that is so hard to understand?

 A weapon only modifier really should be a weapon only modifier.  They shouldn't allow it to be bypassed.  If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work and that is why it should be removed.

 As well as it takes a lot of weapon slots to have one of each type of weapon available at any time.  Slots that aren't free.  Weapon only modifiers are crap for this reason also.

 But most weapons can get through many situations even if they aren't good at it, so a weapon being used in a bad situation isn't really a great reason to drop the weapon only modifier.  The real reason to drop it is that people don't use that weapon only in those situations.  They use anything except for that weapon.

 Because of the way powers and some weapons work in this game, any time that any limitation is introduced, players tend to just bypass the limitation and get through.  Mostly because the limitation would change a reasonable length battle into an hour long chip fest.  If the limitations screw with the game flow and don't work in general, then they should be removed until a better plan and design is implemented.

[doomagent13]

4 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

  As well as it takes a lot of weapon slots to have one of each type of weapon available at any time.  Slots that aren't free.  Weapon only modifiers are crap for this reason also.

Aren't there only 6 possible weapon type modifiers? (Melee, Secondary, Bow, Sniper, Shotgun, and Assault Rifle/everything else?)  It's been a long time, but I vaguely recall either starting with 8 weapon slots or at least reaching 8 with the starting plat...  By the time you reach sorties, you should be able to trade for plat anyway...