Javlok feedback.

[SquireAngel]

Self damage hasn't 'lost it's place', it's just that DE has simply not put out self damaging weapons for a very long time, as Secura Penta was the last before Javlok and Zarr. Simply place your shots if you don't want to blow yourself up. I'm so sick and tired of DE trying to implement weapons that require a small modicum of skill, and the player base whining that they don't want to have any challenge with a good weapon. Go back to your Mirage Simulor if you want a dumb fire weapon.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Self dmg was never a problem. Just don't explode/toss near you. Don't understand how this can be a problem for anyone. As long as you give yourself some distance. You will be fine.

[IamRageypoo]

DE could always make an Arcane set that reduces self damage. 

[Cash4Cookies]

56 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Self damage is a fair mechanic, whether it's fun or not. Enemies only get that close to you if you let them get that close to you. 

Powerful things should have  limitation, and yet many don't. I feel all explosives should have enough self damage to kill the user if they shoot it carelessly, including Tonkor. 

yes and no.

yes, self damage is a good mechanic, but no it's not fair in its current state of implementation.

that doesn't even have to do anything to do with letting enemies get too close, since explosions on allies trigger the self dmg.

 

and as you said "carelessly" which would be fine if it was like 10% health dmg or losing shields, but not insta self kill. enough to make you think about placing your shots, but not completely over the top as it is now.

hopefully shield gating will fix the insta kills for self damage weapons too

Edited December 18, 2016 by Cash4Cookies

[IX-44]

Self-damage is all fine and dandy until you deal as much damage to yourself as you do enemies. Then you ask "why bother when half of this game is within a 20m radius? A Tigris would be more effective."

Edited December 18, 2016 by ChargeBeam

[Fari]

As others said, self damage is fine, in moderation. Not only that, it's NOT like it's thrown attack is strong enough to *justify* it's punishment. If it one shot enemies as hard as it one shots yourself, sure, but it doesn't. the thing can easily hit your cat randomly jumping across the screen as likely as anything else.

At least Javlok has a main fire for tighter areas, because weapon swaps are too slow to justify explosives too.

It really should cap off at like 10%/20% of health or something.

 

Anyways, I like that picking it up is a slower process, but it doesn't have proportional reward to that, which is the issue. If it's 3x slower than any other weapon, it should be 3x as effective, or at least 2x as effective. Instead of just worse than things that do it much faster. I'll be using it plenty because it's fun but that doesn't mean it's in a good spot.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

Funny thing is:

anyone with knowledge of it's self dmg would take that as a sign that the spear mode is a long range attack.

[TrickshotMcGee]

1 hour ago, Cash4Cookies said:

yes and no.

yes, self damage is a good mechanic, but no it's not fair in its current state of implementation.

that doesn't even have to do anything to do with letting enemies get too close, since explosions on allies trigger the self dmg.

 

and as you said "carelessly" which would be fine if it was like 10% health dmg or losing shields, but not insta self kill. enough to make you think about placing your shots, but not completely over the top as it is now.

hopefully shield gating will fix the insta kills for self damage weapons too

I don't see how it is an unfair mechanic. Something powerful enough to kill very large groups of enemies should be powerful enough to kill the user if they are standing too close. I agree the Javlok isn't able to kill enemies effectively enough to justify that kind of self-damage, but the mechanic of self-damage itself IS a fair thing. Many explosive weapons are powerful, and such power has to have a drawback other than limited ammo (which is quite easily worked around). 

But yes, it is careless to fire a nuke at your feet and stand there to watch the pretty colors. Any way you slice it, that's the user's fault. And they deserve to die to it for not knowing that blowing something up 1 meter away from your face is a bad decision. 

Yes, explosives can hit teammates. Big whoop. I've killed myself that way before. Not a big deal. I learned to know where my teammates are when using an explosive gun in order to avoid that, and it's actually stupidly easy to avoid. 

 

If self-damage gets limited, then the weapons that have it also need to be taken down, because that's just not balanced. 10% health damage is nothing compared to the damage you deal in a single shot with a properly modded explosive. Especially since the introduction of Rivens. It's even less significant when we have a gear item that can heal more than that in literally a second. Losing shields basically means nothing to anyone. they're useless anyways, and the only people that would fool is new players. 

Explosives should require people to pay attention to how they're using them instead of mindlessly spamming them without consequence. 

[LascarCapable]

The throwing attack definitely needs to pack more punch. Also the throwing attack is supposed to have a CC effect, but it's just a bad stagger. I think the javelin should ragdoll enemies in an AoE where it lands. This way, you have an easier time to pick it up if you're quick enough.

[LascarCapable]

Self damage is fine. At least it'll be once the throwing attack will get the power it deserves.

[Jin_Kazama]

1 minute ago, D20 said:

Self damage is fine. At least it'll be once the throwing attack will get the power it deserves.

I agree, the fact that it can't use multishot, and Heavy Calibur makes it impractical means the damage gets heavily reduced.

People are saying its fine if you use a gas build bit that heavy reduces the usability of it in my opinion.

[dice]

6 hours ago, SquireAngel said:

Self damage hasn't 'lost it's place', it's just that DE has simply not put out self damaging weapons for a very long time, as Secura Penta was the last before Javlok and Zarr. Simply place your shots if you don't want to blow yourself up. I'm so sick and tired of DE trying to implement weapons that require a small modicum of skill, and the player base whining that they don't want to have any challenge with a good weapon. Go back to your Mirage Simulor if you want a dumb fire weapon.

But that's exactly it: for what you get with the Javlok, a lackluster javelin toss that doesn't do all that much damage, not that much CC, etc, it doesn't deserve to one shot kill you if you accidentally toss it too close to your feet. At least Zarr has some sort of power behind it. Ogris has the same problem, 1hko on self with on real reason to use it over something stronger. Self damaging weapons have indeed lost their place, overshadowed by other weapons that are stronger without this drawback. The "drawback" (self damage) for using these explosive weapons isn't worth it.

Javlok is a great concept, with a high skill ceiling,and  lots of fun to be had. Even so, it needs these tweaks. It needs this balance. Because right now, the drawback isn't worth using it.

So if the argument is "get good with a weapon and you'll see results" then yeah I'll agree. But the weapons undoubtedly needs tweaks if you want anyone to even bother putting effort into getting good with it. No one is going to bother if the weapon itself isn't worth putting effort into.

[DeadScream]

Muh... 

I would have loved a primary that would include a melee combo stance for alternate fire, but instead we get this strange thing. I don't understand xD 

"Hey, I have this powerful fireball thrower ! Let's just throw it away !"

[Trickster-_-]

The Javlok, really high base damage which is a heat type.. flaming slug projectile type i guess.. accuracy 100 .. or so it says in the stats.. spear throwing feels really awesome .. but not when it blows up in my face.. (understandable when its meant to be a crowd control type of damage when thrown)..

Pros and Cons

 

Pros-

1. Looks amazing .. definitely wins the grineer type creativity in the looks department..

2. Damage type - heat, really good.. can go upto 4k damage or 5k damage if using elemental combo mods (mine is at 4.7k gas damage, 78 status chance).

3. Javelin type damage when thrown does some serious crowd control only if they re in a crowd that is pretty compact(ivaras noise arrow really helps them gather into a crowd for best one shot kill.. got like 24 enemies in one shot or one throw if u will).

4. Critical chance and critical damage also really decent enough to make some good hits on lvl 30+ enemies..but my best was uptoi lvl 50 enemies (one shot i mean with gas damage)

5. Works really well with elemental combos such as blast corrosive .. I mostly use gas damage (heat + poison) mods..

6. Fire rate/Charge rate - really good.. but doesnt really work like the bow's charge style (upon charging the javlok automatically fires.. its not hold to charge and then release to shoot.. but instead you click fire once and it charges itself and shoots which kinda makes a slight delay on the shot).. but not really a problem though.. its still pretty good fire rate and charge rate for the throw..

Cons-

1. 100 accuracy given in stats, but doesnt even hit the target at a 5 meter range.. sometimes takes all 6 shots in the magazine just to get one hit.. (really bad once the targets start moving around)

need the 100 accuracy stats number to actually do 100 accuracy shots on enemies please..

2. Reload time - 2.2 seconds.. at best can be 1.4 seconds when using Primed Fast Hands mod..

3. The elemental combo stats really doesnt do justice cos even though my javlok is at 4.7k gas damage it doesnt do any gas damage on every hit, while it still shows 78 percent status chance.. instead it does the normal heat damage and kills the target.. Out of 10 shots i may get like 1 gas damage shot which will affect even the enemies which r standing beside the target i fired at..

4. Everything comes down to the accuracy and status chance not being true to what it shows in numbers.. 

5. Whatever pros i just typed on top would be made to look like a lie once you start using the javlok cos it doesnt really do the 100 accuracy ..missing  5-6 shots in a 6 clip size magazine.. Thats not good.. definitely needs to be checked as to why it misses so much with 100 accuracy..

 

Summary

Whatever i say now might be due to some fixes that may be required for the weapon.. If so then please fix it soon.. Here goes..

My first impression about the Javlok was that its awesome.. really brings a new style of fire arms into game would be interesting to use.. Has great base damage or 235 heat.. goes upto 4.7k gas or even 5.4k gas depending on the mods used.. Critical chance comes up to 50% with just addition of Point strike.. or goes upto 60% almost with point strike and critical delay mods.. dont think it really works even at 60 percent cos the accuracy, at the end of the day is not really showing during gameplay.. the heat slugs projected on to enemies goes past them even at close ranges while having 100 accuracy stats.. have to zoom in and make sure its pointed at the torso region of the enemy to make sure to get the 100 accuracy.. but this is during close range firing..

Long range firing surprising proved to be right on the mark.. only if the enemy is put to sleep by ivara or if enemy is just standing doing nothing .. the projectile shot is still slow.. did try terminal velocity but not much help other than wasting a perfect use of a slot for that mod to increase 60 percent of flight speed.. dint really help..

The weapon itself is really great if u see the stats.. and the high chance of status and crit chances etc.. I dint really mind the slow reloadod or the low clip size.. but that was until i actually tested the spear rifle.. polarized it 3 times even though it already had 2 V- polarity by default.. It did get a very high damage stats but it still need to actually hit targets everytime if it shows 100 accuracy in the stats.. sadly out of 6 shots in the clip or magazine, it ended up missing the targets most of the time..

As a rifle it doesnt really match up to any normal assault rifles at all .. then again I did try to compare it with other projectile weapons like dera or even some bows.. and yet it doesnt work out that well .. its really not a rifle worth using during an important mission..

It was really a let down for me sorry to say..

has great damage has great numbers in the stats.. but in the end it doesnt show all those numbers to be true when you actually use it in missions.. I got bored of it.. It took me just 30 min to use 3 formas on this weapon.. and whole day of gameplay and i got bored of it.. costs 240 platinum which is not really worth it..

 

Improvement requests-

Please make the projectile heat slug damage as a crowd control as well.. else the use of 'Firestorm' mod would be a total waste of slot for the javlok..

Also would be great to hit the target with the projectile shots every time when i have a 100 accuracy number in my stats for the javlok..

The javlok spear throw needs to be made to get back to the player after 5 second time limit cos its still has some issues with the pick up after the throw.. It tends to not be seen in the loadout during game play.. and I have ended up trying to switch to my primary and yet it only is stuck in my secondary.. then i switch to my melee and then back to normal and then i get to select the primary.. by this time all my targets are already killed by my allies and i have no use of my javlok to have some fun ..

Does seem bad that we get blown up or killed  when we get caught up in our own blast due to the javelin throw.. if possible please do reduce the damage or remove the suicidal trait of the throw in the javlok.. or I understand why it needs to be a suicidal type throw too.. but would be more fun to throw more if its not suicidal ..

Improve the accuracy and the hit on the enemy .. and improve the flight speed of the slug .. more importantly make sure the elemental mods used would do the proper elemental damage ..

78 percent gas damage i have and yet it does only heat damage .. like 5 shots heat damage and one may or may not be gas damage that will affect the surrounding enemies as well..  please check that too..

Also could it be possible to make the javlok as the quick melee type when holding javlok?.. i mean if javlok is being held in hand then using the quick melee button would use the javlok as a melee weapon to hit enemies.. instead of the actual melee equipped .. only when javlok is in use, the quick melee button shud use javlok as a melee.. no need of any combos or anything .. just some moves like how a polearm weapon wud hit during quick melee key usage.. 4 strikes that do the current javlok damage present in it..

 

Other than the fact that the javlok is not really doing good at hitting its targets accurately.. im totally satisfied with its looks and its new style of weapon firing and throwing of spear..

But cant really use it as an end game rifle or primary i felt.. even though it would seem like a new type of fire arm that would take the game by storm.. in the end I just dont really feel like using it more cos the game play doesnt really work out since the accuracy is bad and also the javlok doesnt do game to enemies that are inside the forst's snow globe.. please fix it.. if the javelin throw does crowd control then it shud be able to hit enemies inside the globe even though the spear itself is stuck outside on the globe .. atleast the damage of the blast shud get through right..

Please test it out again few times for the accuracy thing and the proper hit on targets without any miss.. and also make the shots from the rifle to be ranged damage too so that firestorm mod is fully utilized instead of it being active only for the javelin throw damage..  and also self damage to be minimized for player or removed completely also works great for all players ..

But if all this is already being worked on as we speak then never mind my requests .. and keep up with the great work..

Well thats my feed back for ya.. hope that helps..

Thanks for the game DE been here since 2013 .. and will still stick around and support you guys.. do what you do.. I appreciate all the hard work that goes on for making the updates and fixes..

Thanks DE..

[TenGaugeBoson]

Krieky mate...Way to much info..I couldn't read it all.

I just want some kinda aoe from my projectiles....maybe 1/6 of that of throwing the spear maybe making throwing the spear with 3 bullets in the clip do half the damage. or something like that.

Maybe you had that in you novel  I personally couldn't get past the 1st chapter.I just hope they they back together in the end.

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, DeadScream said:

Muh... 

I would have loved a primary that would include a melee combo stance for alternate fire, but instead we get this strange thing. I don't understand xD 

"Hey, I have this powerful fireball thrower ! Let's just throw it away !"

This. You are absolutely correct. I feel it would have made more sense to either:

A: Have the Javlok as a hybrid weapon that serves as a battle staff (because one can easily use this as battle staff that does impact and slash) and a ranged weapon or...

B: Have the Javlok as a battle staff that can also be thrown to do AoE damage.

I'm leaning towards A.

Yes the idea of a throwing spear is a great idea. I'm all for it. But for the love of Lotus, please, don't put a gun on something that you intend to throw at enemies....because that's just stupid. Honestly, who in their right mind throws their fully loaded and functional gun at an enemy? I can understand having a spear that you can attach an explosive head / grenade with impact fuse to and throwing that to do AoE damage...but not this. Spears are pole weapons with long shafts and pointed heads that are designed for jabbing / thrusting melee attacks and / or for throwing at enemies. Yes, it can be argued that a rifle fitted with a bayonet is a spear of sorts...but no soldier EVER throws their bayonet-fitted rifle at an enemy that's some distance from them...they SHOOT them. The bayonet is there in case the enemy is charging in to try and melee and they're too close to shoot at...or they're out of ammo.

Ugh. DE's designers don't think long and hard enough about what they're trying to do half the time.

[AutoPhox]

10 hours ago, D20 said:

The throwing attack definitely needs to pack more punch. Also the throwing attack is supposed to have a CC effect, but it's just a bad stagger. I think the javelin should ragdoll enemies in an AoE where it lands. This way, you have an easier time to pick it up if you're quick enough.

Genius! You are hired.

[Multicom-EN-]

10 hours ago, D20 said:

The throwing attack definitely needs to pack more punch. Also the throwing attack is supposed to have a CC effect, but it's just a bad stagger. I think the javelin should ragdoll enemies in an AoE where it lands. This way, you have an easier time to pick it up if you're quick enough.

^This. And make the reload faster for the primary attack and add some AOE or increase the flight speed.

[d3me]

What I think: recharge on primary attack should go away (maybe with ammo altogether, 540 ammo for this is kinda "unlimited" already), staying with pure bow-like shooting mechanic. And about secondary attack, it'll be good if you have like 3 spears in some ornate quiver on your back to make 3 throws, but yes, this is asking too much.

[Machine_Head]

i have to say that i dont think the javlok was a weapon that needed self damage

[ObviousLee]

gas/status/crit damage build in tandem with a blind frame=broken op

[IX-44]

I would also like to add that while, yes, we do have to bend our playstyles around our kit sometimes, the Javlok to me is one big inconsistency.

 

You have an explosive throwing spear that shoots non-explosive exploding fireballs.

I'm not too much bothered by the self-damage now.

Beyond the OHKO I keep suffering when I throw it and it clips into a wall two feet from my head.

Edited December 19, 2016 by ChargeBeam

[Falchoin]

I've noticed since the weapon is so long it can be difficult to hit enemies in melee range.  Also, I learned punchthrough mods are not a good thing as the spear can get stuck inside walls.  Lastly it's unusually affected by Heavy Caliber.  It goes from 100 accuracy to 1.7 with a max rank HC.

Other than those gripes, I've been having fun with it on my toxic Chroma.  Enhanced reload/weapon swap speed is a glorious thing when using the Javlok.

[Jin_Kazama]

1 hour ago, Falchoin said:

I've noticed since the weapon is so long it can be difficult to hit enemies in melee range.  Also, I learned punchthrough mods are not a good thing as the spear can get stuck inside walls.  Lastly it's unusually affected by Heavy Caliber.  It goes from 100 accuracy to 1.7 with a max rank HC.

Other than those gripes, I've been having fun with it on my toxic Chroma.  Enhanced reload/weapon swap speed is a glorious thing when using the Javlok.

Thanks for the idea! Lol.

But otherwise, chroma makes any lackluster weapon amazing, the issue im having with the javlok is that besides gas build, it's bad in terms of damage >.<

Since the throw doesn't apply multishot, and you can't use heavy Calibur on it

[crashapple12]

wider hitbox on the projectiles would be nice, and being able to throw during the reload animation would help as well (particularly if you are using *tactical reload* to reload it while its away)

on a note of all explosive weapons i do wish they were all 100-150 self damage, rather than either being the tonkor with its ultimate safety of 50 self damage, or all the other explosives dealing full damage and being suicidal to use