Volt makes no sense as a Warframe

[Methanoid]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

But you're not always going to be fighting against robotics 

And Frames like Frosts snow globe does it better than Volts shield. 

every frame does something better than another at something, volt is no different, nor should he be.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

8 hours ago, Phyrak said:

I made a thread some months ago prior to the volt rework on the hopes of him becoming the true caster frame he was advertised as

I drew a lot from infamous and some dragon's dogma

Both show brilliantly how great volt's potential could be

Wheres that thread?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 minute ago, Methanoid said:

every frame does something better than another at something, volt is no different, nor should he be.

Volt is different from what he was pre rework. My opinion says he is bad because is cc oriented and he wasnt before and that is not what i was hoping for in a rework. 

It really gets funny when people say the cc isnt good enough.

That kind of makes it seem like no one got anything from this rework. Everyone else just settles for it, because volt was always meh, and cc is always welcome in a game, so hes a team player now.

 

[Methanoid]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Volt is different from what he was pre rework. My opinion says he is bad because is cc oriented and he wasnt before and that is not what i was hoping for in a rework. 

It really gets funny when people say the cc isnt good enough.

That kind of makes it seem like no one got anything from this rework. Everyone else just settles for it, because volt was always meh, and cc is always welcome in a game, so hes a team player now.

 

i dislike the ash and excalibur reworks as well, again volt is no different in that respect after his rework.

[Xaxma]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

I can sympathise, I'm a Volt main and since starting Warframe, I just feel he gets out shined by the other Warframes even in damage despite having the ability to harness electricity. 

If they do not change how Volt#s speed works, I am forever going to be salty of how other Frames outrun (like Loki) even when your under the effects of speed.

I feel like some QoL fixes would help Volt's 2, such as improving that obnoxious lack of friction he mysteriously loses whenever he activates Speed.

He turns the ground into soap I guess. He should be able to turn and manuever on the dime. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

17 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

i dislike the ash and excalibur reworks as well, again volt is no different in that respect after his rework.

So they should be fixed right?

[Methanoid]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

So they should be fixed right?

technically ash and excal were never broken to begin with, yet for some obscene reason they changed them, im guessing due to "player input", which basically means we will always have that grey area where some like the frames as they are and some dont, so where is the middle ground.

instead of asking for reworks etc and waiting for years for an eventual change we may like ive just stuck to not using the frames that i dont like after their changes, nto like there arent way more to pick from, i think atm i really only use trinity and loki the most, some others for an occasional change but i still avoid volt, ash, excal and a few more of the newer frames that are needlessly overcomplicated.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Methanoid

[Xaxma]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

So they should be fixed right?

DE has a hard time admitting when they make a mistake. 

At the same time, when something wasn't a problem before and circumstances today make it a problem, it's a mistake to not rectify it, as is the case with old content. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

As a speed volt lover (got 243% str, 1.56 sprint, working towards 300% str) i love the idea of making volt faster. 

 

One thing i think would be cool (impractical, but cool) is to have the the computer pathfind for you a bit when you are going super speedy, and while super speedy (like, flash be jealous speed) you can aim your gun or attack or something to stop the speed, only to star running, and in a sense act like an ash bladestorm, but be maunally moved and attack, just being so fast you are near impossible to track 

[Phyrak]

5 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Wheres that thread?

Found it

Took some digging but here it is

 

[Xaxma]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

As a speed volt lover (got 243% str, 1.56 sprint, working towards 300% str) i love the idea of making volt faster. 

 

One thing i think would be cool (impractical, but cool) is to have the the computer pathfind for you a bit when you are going super speedy, and while super speedy (like, flash be jealous speed) you can aim your gun or attack or something to stop the speed, only to star running, and in a sense act like an ash bladestorm, but be maunally moved and attack, just being so fast you are near impossible to track 

Well, I believe in there being a frame for every situation too. Volt should prevail in open tilesets, but he shouldn't exactly struggle as bad as he does now in cramped corners, but it's definitely a weakness for him. I've said this before that Volt's 2 certainly needs a quality of life change that makes his turning and momentum easier to maneuver because he slips around all over the place like he's walking on soap.

The point of 3 would be to artificially create that effect of "so fast, he can't be hit," since he is a squishy frame generally, but not let his Speed become so intense that the player can't even tell where he's going. He should be fast all the time regarding all aspects of his movements, so scaling walls and gliding through the air should be a satisfying result.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Xaxma

[Nedow40]

Since the rework, I only see him as a Marksman. Using low recoil or precision weapons away from the team a little dealing with priority targets.

1 is for single target stun and as a Shield powerup;
2 is for catching with squad;
3 is obivous Shield and Weapon Damage Amplifier;
4 is for AoE stun to flee or to give the team a breath by stunning enemies nearby or far away.

I don't know if I'm right but it seems to work very well for me.

[Xaxma]

6 minutes ago, Nedow40 said:

Since the rework, I only see him as a Marksman. Using low recoil or precision weapons away from the team a little dealing with priority targets.

1 is for single target stun and as a Shield powerup;
2 is for catching with squad;
3 is obivous Shield and Weapon Damage Amplifier;
4 is for AoE stun to flee or to give the team a breath by stunning enemies nearby or far away.

I don't know if I'm right but it seems to work very well for me.

>I only see him as a marksman

There's your problem; that's Ivara, Banshee, Mesa, and Titania already.

Volt shouldn't have to halfass an identity others already far surpass him in, he should form his own unique identity as a speed-demon frame that he deserves to be, which is a concept we haven't fully seen explored before.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Xaxma

[Nedow40]

1 minute ago, Xaxma said:

>I only see him as a marksman

There's your problem; that's Ivara, Banshee, Mesa, and Titania already.

Volt shouldn't have to halfass an identity others already far surpass him in, he should form his own unique identity as a speed-demon frame that he deserves to be, which is a concept we haven't fully seen explored before.

Slow down bro, I don't have a problem, I only said that since the Rework he wasn't the same from before.

As someone that played 21% with the regular Volt and 11% with Prime, I really don't want him to be another Marksman. Ivara is cleary the frame to go for that, but since this is DE and most things don't change for better...

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

So wait.

He ... is not what you expected, with no propper context to him, so he does not make sense as a frame?...ay. I must've forgotten there for a second that the earth doesn't revolve around the sun but around you.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Xaxma]

12 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

So wait.

He ... is not what you expected, with no propper context to him, so he does not make sense as a frame?...ay. I must've forgotten there for a second that the earth doesn't revolve around the sun but around you.

 

 

And everyone else disappointed with his "rework," yes.

I don't think lightning stands still, but it's a rather fast natural phenomena, so shouldn't his powers reflect that? It makes no sense.

It's like if Ember suddenly applies cold procs with her abilities, or Frost now gains 2.00 movement speed when all of his abilities relate to him tanking and hunkering down. It's thematically bad.

And it's my thread, so I can think whatever the hell I want. Your animosity isn't appreciated.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Xaxma

[Tesseract7777]

Wow the ideas in the OP are really, really cool and would make Volt really a nice cohesive frame. It would make him a true alternative to gunplay, a true elemental caster who stays on the move. 

Right now he just feels clunky. Less effective than most at defense, less effective than most at offense or cc... and he isn't even that fast for himself or allies. Because parkour usually beats spring speed now and his new riot shield ability that is supposed to make him more mobile drains energy putting too much of a drain on him. 

I really love the ideas in this thread, and I wish they would do something like this for Volt, or at least make a new electricity based frame similar to the ideas you outlined. It's not like its impossible, after all there is more than one fire themed frame now (sort of). 

Even if they don't do anything drastic, they need to at least make speed boost parkour as well, and actually give it a better innate evasion multiplier with the ability to increase it with power strength without going so fast you can't control yourself, and the riot shield should not drain energy at all. I know it should perhaps have some drawback, but I think energy drain is the wrong choice. 

Also, the damage cap on discharge is just dumb, and shock definitely needs to chain/stun/damage more/better. 

 

I think OP kind of has a good point too in terms of Volt's theme. His 2 and his passive suggest you should be keeping moving. But the energy drain from his riot shield and the rest of his mechanics imply more strongly that you should be staying still. It definitely feels sometimes like Volt is two different frames that don't really work together all that well, instead of one cohesive one. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Cyphrus]

15 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

So wait.

He ... is not what you expected, with no propper context to him, so he does not make sense as a frame?...ay. I must've forgotten there for a second that the earth doesn't revolve around the sun but around you.

 

 

Apparently you haven't read any comments in this tread other than the OP, most of the community that loves Volt is extremely upset at the rework. Being upset and voicing your opinion on the matter doesn't mean you expect the world to revolve around you or your opinion it simply means you are passionate about what you believe and want to share that with others. 

Stop acting like such an antagonist. 

[Ryunokage]

Despite all of the suggestions here, i've not really seen any material arguments that explains what it is about volt that people are so disgruntled  by, other then that it doesn't "feel right". Can anyone offer arguments that revolve around volt's utility and ability, rather then anything as individually subjective as "feeling"?

Moving on, i can't see any major reasons from a practical standpoint, which might suggest volt is in need of another rework. His ultimate is very much more powerful then its previous incarnation, while the ability to pick up an electric shield and use it to either batter enemies out of your way, or make yourself impervious to frontal fire, is much more versatile then a simple static firebreak. Even his augments allow him to be played to favour melee combat, or even turn him into a moderately tough tank.

Volt has been one of my most often used frames since he got reworked and I use him because he offers a mix of high mobility, CC and point defence that other frames cannot. I really can't see any reason why he should be reworked again, given that his current set up lends very well to flexible play with a variety of different load outs.

[Rekkou]

10 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

-snip-

Yeah, pretty much this. Most of volt's suggestions i see can be summed to "Volt isn't good until he is literally the flash or palpatine" . People are using volt to project their own wish fulfillment instead of accepting him as his own character.

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

2 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Yeah, pretty much this. Most of volt's suggestions i see can be summed to "Volt isn't good until he is literally the flash or palpatine" . People are using volt to project their own wish fulfillment instead of accepting him as his own character.

He would really shine if he was like Palpatine 

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

It's not about what he is or isn't. But it's about what he should be. What he does now is good but he doesn't fully capture that potential as a "lightning" based frame, as a frame that harnesses "electricity". If he is truly a frame that harnesses electricity than he should be at maximum potential. Lightning or electricity isn't just crowd control but also deadly so logically, he should be one of the most deadly frames.

Even Volt does get a buff. What will you lose? He would still be a crowd control frame but he does it better and with his own charm as a lightning frame. He'll still be a crowd control frame with versatility in damage. Plus it would be more fun if you could play him as Palpatine. It's a game so fun is where it should be. Just let it happen, it's not like you will lose Volt or make him worse but more fun. 

[Tesseract7777]

49 minutes ago, Ryunokage said:

Despite all of the suggestions here, i've not really seen any material arguments that explains what it is about volt that people are so disgruntled  by, other then that it doesn't "feel right". Can anyone offer arguments that revolve around volt's utility and ability, rather then anything as individually subjective as "feeling"?

It's like you didn't even read the thread at all. There are many reasons given beyond "feel", you just chose to dismiss them instead of addressing them because it doesn't fit with your worldview. Please go back and re-read. The technical reasons why Volt doesn't make sense and isn't cohesive are written out in multiple different ways by different people. 

It seems you are the one choosing to decide that he simply "feels right" based on your opinion. 

It's about cohesion. Volt is an alternative to gunplay, except he's not because Discharge has damage cap and he really does most of his damage from augmenting his weapons with Speed or Electric Shield. He's the gotta go fast frame... except to survive in high level he basically needs to turtle and not actually move. Oh but we gave him a riot shield! But it only protects face forward and drains hella energy so it really isn't that useful in actual reality, in sortie play, in levels where the game is somewhat of a challenge. 

Volt's problem is still that his kit is all over the place and lacks any real synergy when you really stop to think about it. He is like two different frames. 

He also has a passive that encourages running and moving and sprinting... and increases his damage, and yet there is the damage cap, and the fact that his other abilities encourage him to stop moving completely to survive and just sit there and camp with his gun. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

11 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

I completely 100% agree

it makes no sense for him to turtle down especially if you have him at a base of 15 or 100 armor. He's gotta go fast. 

Logically, if Volt is an alternate to gunplay than his shock should do more IMO. Other than that, if you disagree with that statement. If he is the alternative to gunplay than he should be the true caster frame he deserves to be. 

[Ryunokage]

22 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

It's like you didn't even read the thread at all. There are many reasons given beyond "feel", you just chose to dismiss them instead of addressing them because it doesn't fit with your worldview. Please go back and re-read. The technical reasons why Volt doesn't make sense and isn't cohesive are written out in multiple different ways by different people. 

It seems you are the one choosing to decide that he simply "feels right" based on your opinion. 

It's about cohesion. Volt is an alternative to gunplay, except he's not because Discharge has damage cap and he really does most of his damage from augmenting his weapons with Speed or Electric Shield. He's the gotta go fast frame... except to survive in high level he basically needs to turtle and not actually move. Oh but we gave him a riot shield! But it only protects face forward and drains hella energy so it really isn't that useful in actual reality, in sortie play, in levels where the game is somewhat of a challenge. 

Volt's problem is still that his kit is all over the place and lacks any real synergy when you really stop to think about it. He is like two different frames. 

He also has a passive that encourages running and moving and sprinting... and increases his damage, and yet there is the damage cap, and the fact that his other abilities encourage him to stop moving completely to survive and just sit there and camp with his gun. 

I read the thread and reread it, in the highly unlikely event that you might be right. What few arguments i could see to the volt being intrinsically bad revolve the volt not "feeling right", there are no examples of his skills, abilities or stats being lacklustre or insufficient in any concrete terms. Could you provide examples outside of the opening post?

Else, i am not suggesting he feels right. I am pointing out that given the frame's current mechanics, there are no patently obvious shortfalls in his utility, or flexibility. I base these observations not on "feelings" but rather pointing out the practical implications of his current move set. I am not an emotional person, nor am i given to vague, non-quantifiable, non-qualitative descriptions as feels. If you can point out to specific problems in his move set please, I would like to better understand your argument.

How does cohesion have anything to do with the matter at hand, how are you even defining cohesion? Do you mean to say synergy or whether they follow a thematic idea? 

Where synergy is concerned, the majority of warframes have abilities that do not synergize with each other, the Mirage is a good example of this, her 4 abilities all function independently of one another. The same applies to the Loki, Mesa, Frost, Atlas, Banshee, Hyrdroid, Nekros, Nova, Nyx, Oberson, Titania, Valkyr and Vauban.

Else, i'm going to point out that even in especially high level missions, i do not find myself having to "stop moving completely to survive", nor do i just "camp with his gun". If anything the opposite is true. especially with enemy accuracy being negatively modified the faster you happen to be running. Its not all together hard to remain mobile in higher level missions and rely on parkour and movement to avoid taking a large proportion of incoming fire. 

Speed specially helps when moving from cover to cover, while use of parkour moves like bullet jumps and sliding, puts me into a stable and predictable course with which to line up shots, while the rapid manuver allows me to quickly charge his passive. If anything his move set, and stats make him ideal as a skirmisher, hit and run strikes, especially with melee slide attacks, semi-automatic and single shot weapons like bows or shotguns.