HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[khabby]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

It's only a grind if you make it a grind.

Some of the beauty of this game is how many tasks you can be accomplishing simultaneously. If they made the Hema a small resource cost, then most people would have had the weapon maxed the day after it released. Larger costs are a means to prevent that. Nitain is a way to prevent that. It's necessary in a F2P game. You can have it now by paying premium currency or you can work for it by playing.

We as players have often been handed weapons on a silver platter, especially us vets with large stockpiles of resources. This, in my opinion, is bad. To counteract this they make weapons cost more to research. And, again, it's a clan. It's not you alone. Instead of complaining, work with your damn clanmates to get the thing you want so badly.

1. we dont want the thing , but the comunity asks for it , when recruiting "do you have hema? NO

2.Most of the clans complaining now are the ones that have a friendly setup and take in lots of newer players that dont farm/contribute or dont know how yet and it would be blatantly mean to just drag them into farms  they have no business with.

3. look at the archwing oxium costs ,nothing wrong with that , high ... but doable so dont have it the day after.... hema   for mountain/moon clans ISNT if you dont have a bunch of nolife farmers in your clan.

[Tyrian3k]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

We as players have often been handed weapons on a silver platter, especially us vets with large stockpiles of resources. This, in my opinion, is bad. To counteract this they make weapons cost more to research. And, again, it's a clan. It's not you alone. Instead of complaining, work with your damn clanmates to get the thing you want so badly.

How about they give us something useful to do with those resources instead of making them a requirement for the next mastery fodder trash weapon in the line? If they are so worried about stockpiles, they should work on a permanent solution, the simplest of which would be allowing us to sell them.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, khabby said:

1. we dont want the thing , but the comunity asks for it , when recruiting "do you have hema? NO

2.Most of the clans complaining now are the ones that have a friendly setup and take in lots of newer players that dont farm/contribute or dont know how yet and it would be blatantly mean to just drag them into farms  they have no business with.

3. look at the archwing oxium costs ,nothing wrong with that , high ... but doable so dont have it the day after.... hema   for mountain/moon clans ISNT if you dont have a bunch of nolife farmers in your clan.

Again, this is just plainly false. Most of the people I talk to in this game have the Hema by now, and they didn't farm extensively for it. Many of their clan members worked for it over the past couple weeks and got it. They did just a few runs each, often together. You don't have to get it all immediately, that's the point.

DE is not responsible for your clan members not contributing.

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

3 minutes ago, Hixlysss said:

Friend of mine suggested the very same idea, I told him no simply because of math. It would have to change the cost of the overall research each time someone new joins or leaves. It will have to do this constantly as long as the dojo is open, which is fine for lower tier clans, not so good for higher ones.

The Tier's should get looked at, as you pointed out having to do additional farming for 17 other vacant people...that's kind of a kick in the groin, but it does seem to be doing what DE wanted, which is making people more active in clans, and that clearly has some negatives to it(kicking people out to be able to manage the resource cost), which in turn will make clan's little more...exclusive in who gets to join.

I can get behind Dojos being more active, but forcing players to make-up research for empty seats (lots of empty seats) is a bit unfair to both the players that have to do it and those that get kicked if downgrading makes more sense. I can just imagine what madness is happening with those dojos that have 150 players of which 20-30 are inactive. 

[SnuggleBuckets]

2 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

How about they give us something useful to do with those resources instead of making them a requirement for the next mastery fodder trash weapon in the line? If they are so worried about stockpiles, they should work on a permanent solution, the simplest of which would be allowing us to sell them.

Yes, the option to sell resources or trade them for other resources would be a logical solution.

[Firetempest]

Well this was quick to personal attacks. Good job guys.

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

Another solution could be just more Tiers. Just Make tiers go up 5, 10, 20, 25, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 100, but that would seem a bit ridiculous. 

[Burritochu]

This who fiasco just goes to show that clans aren't anything but research hubs. There is pretty much no other benefit of making one or being a part of one besides getting mastery.

[khabby]

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Again, this is just plainly false. Most of the people I talk to in this game have the Hema by now, and they didn't farm extensively for it. Many of their clan members worked for it over the past couple weeks and got it. They did just a few runs each, often together. You don't have to get it all immediately, that's the point.

DE is not responsible for your clan members not contributing.

thats the point , i feel punished for taking in and helping forward people that dont even know how to contribute , helping the game .

and not extencively ? like in one of my previous posts .. mutagen 150k in mountain clan , 5-10 actively contributing... ok lets help u a bit lets say 50 contribute ... do the math of hours to play. its not "a few runs". most clans having it now are either full of very active high mr players or downgraded their clan to shadow. im not saying its 100% impossible , im saying its a huge backstab to players that play for just fun and helping eachother out while its encouraging more grind and show off for hyper organised clans.

NOT asking for major changes either , i understand they want to change easy to get stuff ... but just SOMETHING like a few alerts once in a while to help clans like mine (or not anymore since hey i downgraded) ... and many many others

Edited January 20, 2017 by khabby

[John89brensen]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

Instead of costing 5000 mutagen for shadow clans, make it cost 500 mutagen sample for every member in the clan.

500 per player is still a lot, i have almost 2000 hours and i only have around 700 MS, not counting some MS i contributed to research in the past, nothing close to the Hema of course. Moon clans would still have to pay 500k for the research, what you suggest would make little to no difference in regards to Hema.

Now apply this system you suggest to every other research in the dojos, all prices would be way too high, Zephyr bp would be 200 Oxium per player. A clan with 10 players would pay 2000 oxium instead of the flat 200 ghost clans pay.

There is only one actual solution to the Hema problem, DE needs to nerft the cost.

[Lored]

16 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

Make a video showing you get 7500 samples from 1 h of survival without boosters and we can believe you.

Since that doesn't happen, how about you stop lying in our faces?

Or maybe you just read normaly? 15000 samples for clan, 2 party 4 + 3 ppl = 7ppl, ~2200 Samples from 1,

[Ciaus]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

DE is not responsible for your clan members not contributing.

They ARE responsible for screwing up clan structure and putting many people off the business model knowing how few clans have heavy activity and contribution numbers. 
This is some basic 80-20 rule s***, you could assume less than a third of clan members actually contribute even in healthy social clans without a single actual Warframe clan stat in front of them.

@WhiteMarker The forums are literally here for feedback and discussion about the game. 
My feedback is that this is still a terrible decision that negatively affects clans and sweeping it under the rug doesn't change that. 
And my acceptance will come when I make use of that recent Minecraft purchase and tell the people I normally play WF with in my clan to join me there instead. 
That'll totally be good for the game. 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, khabby said:

thats the point , i feel punished for taking in and helping forward people that dont even know how to contribute , helping the game .

and not extencively ? like in one of my previous posts .. mutagen 150k in mountain clan , 5-10 actively contributing... ok lets help u a bit lets say 50 contribute ... do the math of hours to play. its not "a few runs". most clans having it now are either full of very active high mr players or downgraded their clan to shadow. im not saying its 100% impossible , im saying its a huge backstab to players that play for just fun and helping eachother out while its encouraging more grind and show off for hyper organised clans.

You can play for fun without this weapon, and most casual players don't care about MR. New players can still earn Mutagen. If your clan has that many people, but only that many active, then you need to kick them. Do you just like having a big clan?

I find it weird that people can viciously attack DE on their own forums (which in other games has gotten people banned, permanently) yet feels bad when they kick some guy who downloaded the game on steam and has been inactive for months?

yeah ok.

[Ciaus]

1 hour ago, Naskoni said:

As of Devstream 86 that's going in the OP >.>

[Tyrian3k]

1 minute ago, Lored said:

Or maybe you just read normaly? 15000 samples for clan, 2 party 4 + 3 ppl = 7ppl, ~2200 Samples from 1,

Oh, so you have a screenshot of you getting 2200 samples after 60 minutes of ODS? Do show please.

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, Ciaus said:

They ARE responsible for screwing up clan structure and putting many people off the business model knowing how few clans have heavy activity and contribution numbers. 
This is some basic 80-20 rule s***, you could assume less than a third of clan members actually contribute even in healthy social clans without a single actual Warframe clan stat in front of them.

@WhiteMarker The forums are literally here for feedback and discussion about the game. 
My feedback is that this is still a terrible decision that negatively affects clans and sweeping it under the rug doesn't change that. 
And my acceptance will come when I make use of that recent Minecraft purchase and tell the people I normally play WF with in my clan to join me there instead. 
That'll totally be good for the game. 

It's not swept under the rug, they acknowledged it, said they aren't changing it, and that's that. Constantly spamming "OMG THIS IS TOO MUCH" because you want to keep your mountain clan even though 80% of it is inactive won't help you achieve a damn thing.

[Eienlanzer]

1 hour ago, ograzzt said:

Yes, they literally said just go to the derelicts.

I'm extremely dissappointed in DE, but not surprised.

Seriously, it was easy to farm. Stop whining already. I am disappointed in seeing so many of you kick and scream when you need to put a little work in.

[Praxxor]

4 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

500 per player is still a lot, i have almost 2000 hours and i only have around 700 MS, not counting some MS i contributed to research in the past, nothing close to the Hema of course. Moon clans would still have to pay 500k for the research, what you suggest would make little to no difference in regards to Hema.

Now apply this system you suggest to every other research in the dojos, all prices would be way too high, Zephyr bp would be 200 Oxium per player. A clan with 10 players would pay 2000 oxium instead of the flat 200 ghost clans pay.

There is only one actual solution to the Hema problem, DE needs to nerft the cost.

500 is the bare minimum you'll have to contribute if the amount is fairly divided among the whole clan...

[WhiteMarker]

5 minutes ago, khabby said:

and not extencively ? like in one of my previous posts .. mutagen 150k in mountain clan , 5-10 actively contributing... ok lets help u a bit lets say 50 contribute ... do the math of hours to play.

As said on many occasions: You can kick people. Don't calculate stuff on a wrong basis.

2 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

@WhiteMarker The forums are literally here for feedback and discussion about the game. 
My feedback is that this is still a terrible decision that negatively affects clans and sweeping it under the rug doesn't change that. 

That's just half of the truth.
Fact is people already posted all the possible feedback on this topic. DE read the feedback and made the decision to not give in. The made a point. That's the end of the story. That's what you should accept. Not accepting that makes you look childish.

[Tyrian3k]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

It's not swept under the rug, they acknowledged it, said they aren't changing it, and that's that. Constantly spamming "OMG THIS IS TOO MUCH" because you want to keep your mountain clan even though 80% of it is inactive won't help you achieve a damn thing.

Exactly, dump all those filthy casuals who don't play as much as you need them to play to achieve the ultimate clan goal called Hema.

[Gendalph]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

It's only a grind if you make it a grind.

Some of the beauty of this game is how many tasks you can be accomplishing simultaneously. If they made the Hema a small resource cost, then most people would have had the weapon maxed the day after it released. Larger costs are a means to prevent that. Nitain is a way to prevent that. It's necessary in a F2P game. You can have it now by paying premium currency or you can work for it by playing.

We as players have often been handed weapons on a silver platter, especially us vets with large stockpiles of resources. This, in my opinion, is bad. To counteract this they make weapons cost more to research. And, again, it's a clan. It's not you alone. Instead of complaining, work with your damn clanmates to get the thing you want so badly.

What else do I earn in ODD and ODS other than Lith relics, occasional Forma and some Credits? I don't have anything else to do there, literally.

Maxing weapon in a day? What's bad about it? You can max it in a day, but you can't master it in that time. As with most other weapons in the game. Also, I have the plat to buy it and I can switch clans (or create my own), but again: it's not about me not getting Hema but about other clans with low activity and/or new players not getting Hema and, possibly, other new stuff.

 

Quote

especially us vets with large stockpiles of resources

Oh, you didn't bother to read my original topic (which got merged here) where I explained why this is not a solid argument.

I could, maybe, accept Javlock with 5k Detonite cost, but it's 1k. And that's more or less alright as it's an uncommon resource, obtained from Grineer and are easy to farm.

 

Again: my point: making research costs outrageous, they punish new players and those who are in inactive clans.

Give me ways to willingly spend zillions of Fieldron Samples and Detonit Ampules and I'll spend them. But I don't have Mutagen Samples to spend - I still need Mutagen Masses, and the best way to get them? Craft from rare Mutagen Samples.

What's next? Research with base cost 50 Nitain? Or, let's follow your logic, 5000 Nitain. Well, they are rewarded on Orokin Sabotage Missions (who cares that it's 2% per run if you find the right cache?). How does this sound? Or you can buy it with platinum! What a wonderful idea!

[khabby]

Just now, JSharpie said:

You can play for fun without this weapon, and most casual players don't care about MR. New players can still earn Mutagen. If your clan has that many people, but only that many active, then you need to kick them. Do you just like having a big clan?

I find it weird that people can viciously attack DE on their own forums (which in other games has gotten people banned, permanently) yet feels bad when they kick some guy who downloaded the game on steam and has been inactive for months?

yeah ok.

if u read my posts u see i'm not attacking them im pointing out the feeling i have about this. and your first statement doesnt make sense. as i said before its the comunity that requires you to have hema. i dont care about it and i know lower MR dont either , i just enjoy helping people out. "do you enjoy having a big clan" .. no cuz as i just wrote i  downgraded it just for this and kicked loads of people i had fun with in the process.

i never shouted hatred towards DE, all i ever asked for was a reach out. not big changes since i support their descision on wanting things less "easy to get"

[Hypernaut1]

to page 150!!

[toafarmer]

Kicking people to downgrade clans is not an acceptable solution. If people are seriously considering this, they have no idea on what a clan is for.

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

12 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

500 per player is still a lot, i have almost 2000 hours and i only have around 700 MS, not counting some MS i contributed to research in the past, nothing close to the Hema of course. Moon clans would still have to pay 500k for the research, what you suggest would make little to no difference in regards to Hema.

Now apply this system you suggest to every other research in the dojos, all prices would be way too high, Zephyr bp would be 200 Oxium per player. A clan with 10 players would pay 2000 oxium instead of the flat 200 ghost clans pay.

There is only one actual solution to the Hema problem, DE needs to nerft the cost.

I don't know what you're complaining about. 500 per person is hard, but fair in the grand scheme of things. Also the base cost to research Zephyr is 6 oxium per person now and will continue to be that, so I don't know where you get 200.  

P.S. I have less than 2000 hours and have well over 1000. What's your point?

Edited January 20, 2017 by (PS4)Regiampiero