For the love of god, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor

[AntoninDvorak]

Nerf the forums and the whiny babies in it, because they are so so annoying to me! That is your dumb argument... reallly... nerf mirage and simulor because they are bothersome to me. SRSLY, WHAT A LOAD OF BULL%&$%$"#

On 17/1/2017 at 0:37 AM, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

After nerfing Miragulor, I think we should

• Nerf Frost because on defense missions he is always throwing up a bubble, blocking shots and slowing down the kill fest that would otherwise happen.  Or just ban the bubble until wave 40 when it might come in handy.
• Nerf Ivara because she can cheese any spy mission.  And any survival mission.
• Nerf Nova slow ability - no reason defense missions should take so darn long when we can blow through  them quickly.  Spova is ok.
• Nerf Valkyr- an invincibility mode? really?
• Nerf Banshee - Soundquaking IO and stealing all the kills.. wheres the fun.  And Sonar clearly has to go - no one should be able to do that much damage.
• Nerf Ember - because after we nerf Miragulor, she will be killing everything sub level 30 with zero effort.
• Nerf Equinox - because regardless of nerf or no nerf to Miragulor, Eq will outkill Mirage and Ember. Combined.
• Nerf Loki - people keep playing loki on capture missions and get to extraction after killing the capture target before others have left the spawn room.
• Nerf Volt - that rat is always speedboosting at the wrong time - especially in spy missions. Unless I'm Ivara in which case I don't care.
• Nerf Excal - blinding everything constantly and one-shotting them - where's the fun?
• Nerf titania - zipping around like an annoying fly.
• Nerf Limbo - better yet, put him and the rift by himself and let him stay there trolling himself.

I would add Trinity, Ash etc but they all got the nerf bat already from whiny little babies. For that matter, volt and mirage already got nerfed once.  

Actually what they should do, is simply REMOVE all frames except Rhino - but they should probably nerf rhino skin and stomp a bit first.  That way we could all be a slow tank marching inexorably toward extraction.  Or maybe those that want that could just go play Halo.

On a more serious note, If you want a team you can control - there is the recruiting chat.  And Clans.  And XBox friends.  And party chat.  And Invite Only. And Solo.  etc etc.  If you can't figure out a way to enjoy the game with mirage as she stands - either by finding a new squad, or working with her, perhaps this game is a little much for you.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you now what? we might as well play the original mario bros. There's only one character with the same damage and mechanics in all the game. but... OH NO!!! MARIO + STAR = OP!!! PLS NURF !! 

[dan.io.wal]

On 1/11/2017 at 9:05 AM, KYLoooo said:

Who the hell uses Banshee? 

I use banshee!

 

On 1/11/2017 at 9:01 AM, armedpoop said:

Yeah! Lets nerf Simulor Mirage!

Then what? Ignis Ember?

Then what? Spore Saryn?

Then what? Resonating Banshee?

Then what? Sonar Banshee?

Then what? Maim Equinox?

 

 

Do you see the problem here? You nerf this one thing, not only are you screwing over people who play either item exclusively or without the other, but you just bring to light other meta strats to clear missions faster. Nerfing Simulor Mirage will do nothing but aggravate the people who use Simulor, or Mirage. 

This is why this mentality isn't viable. It's a very strong combination, yes, but there are fantastic combos with frames. For example, the Sonicor and Banshee. Pop sonar and go to town. Nidus and the Kohm. Akstilleto Prime and Mesa. This would just bring nerfs upon nerfs for most frames and weapons until we all die horribly trying to do the simplest mission. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by danthedapper

[(XBOX)Englands Own]

The problem with DE reworks on weapons, they tend to hurt them.so much that they become mastery fodder or barely seen weapons.Mirage already got a nerf with her Prism and rightly so, but Mirage is fine the way she is, unfortunately Mirage and the Simulor work perhaps a little too well.

[PatternistSlave]

6 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

the only mission type Miragulor is actually GOOD in is exterminate

Yup.  And not even the best at it.  Ember's better 99% of the time.

6 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

I get annoyed when a Mirage with the Simulor wipes the map without me being able to do anything

I actually had a Mirage with simulor in the sortie yesterday.  Mobile Defense with Energy Reduction.  I was being Bless Trinity as I tend to be.  Kind of important that I find targets to EV.  Think I had trouble finding targets?  No, I didn't.  There were plenty.  You're full of it.  You either don't know the game or are making this crap up.  I assume making it up.  But take your pick.

6 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

My point is indeed that Miragulor is the best frame for almost every objective

and you expect anyone to take you seriously.

On 1/16/2017 at 6:06 AM, YUNoJump said:

It's got absolutely nothing to do with being the "best" frame.

Now she's just the "best", huh?  You didn't argue when I pointed out the actual best for every mission type.  Now you're honestly going to try and say it's her?  Seriously?  Damage is all that matters?  You've played this game before, right?  No?  Just going to pretend it's your first day again?  Don't remember Blind Mirage?  Did she kill anything?  Ever?  Should I bother pointing out Mirage isn't even the best frame for damage?

[YUNoJump]

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

Yup.  And not even the best at it.  Ember's better 99% of the time.

Ember deals far less damage? And relies on a much more solid build?

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

I actually had a Mirage with simulor in the sortie yesterday.  Mobile Defense with Energy Reduction.  I was being Bless Trinity as I tend to be.  Kind of important that I find targets to EV.  Think I had trouble finding targets?  No, I didn't.  There were plenty.  You're full of it.  You either don't know the game or are making this crap up.  I assume making it up.  But take your pick.

As you and many others have indeed said, Miragulor's damage drops off a bit in stuff like Sorties. However, anything lower than that can be a real issue, based on my experiences. Anything lower than that being the whole Starchart. I'll also add that EV is very easy to hit, if you see them at all then press 2 and your job is done, but EV isn't actually good as anything other than energy gain so it's not the same as trying to kill enemies.

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

and you expect anyone to take you seriously.

So far the only reasons you've brought up for this claim are your own personal little anecdotes, if I could get some actual evidence that doesn't just rely on a story that nobody can prove existed, then you might be able to get somewhere on this.

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

Now she's just the "best", huh?  You didn't argue when I pointed out the actual best for every mission type.  Now you're honestly going to try and say it's her?  Seriously?  Damage is all that matters?

Sorry, when I said "best" it was a bit of a hyperbole, what I meant was that she is a much better choice than other frames just by default because of her cheese. When you're choosing a frame for a mission you can go through a lot of processes on what the best frame to bring is, but Miragulor has an advantage that's just "Miragulor will cheese everything", other than actually good factors like power synergy against the enemy and whether or not you'll need more HP or defence abilities based on enemy level and type.

Damage isn't the ONLY thing that matters, but in the average mission you don't really need to bring much else unless it's something defence-based, or maybe interception without a full squad. Every other mission type can be done with just damage, I don't need complicated cc or tonnes of healing support when I can just wipe everything through walls and whole rooms instantly on the way to the objective.

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

Don't remember Blind Mirage?  Did she kill anything?  Ever?  Should I bother pointing out Mirage isn't even the best frame for damage?

She didn't kill anything, but what she did do was render killing obsolete. It's not the same issue. Note that back then Mirage was a very common pick just for that, and it got nerfed, in a very similar (although admittedly more extreme) fashion to what I'm talking about now. No, she's probably not the best frame for damage, but as discussed in the comment you just quoted, the real problem is the fact that her high damage is dished out in a fashion that gets in her teammates' way. Stuff like Banshee and Nova allows teammates to help out with the killing by shooting affected enemies themselves.

[PatternistSlave]

56 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Ember deals far less damage? And relies on a much more solid build?

Cause that really matters in exterminates.

57 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Anything lower than that being the whole Starchart

Which brings us back to Ember.

58 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

I'll also add that EV is very easy to hit, if you see them at all then press 2 and your job is done, but EV isn't actually good as anything other than energy gain so it's not the same as trying to kill enemies

Live enemies are live enemies.  Doesn't make much difference if I'm killing them or using them for energy.  Well maybe to you to whom the concept of teamwork is foreign, but there it is.

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

if I could get some actual evidence

Feel free at any time to point me to all these missions where all these Mirages like to hang out and ruin your fun.  Next time there is an MD Energy Reduction sortie feel free to try out Bless Trinity.  I doubt you'll even see a Mirage since she's not that good so no one much plays her, but might get lucky.  You'll have targets I promise.

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

Damage isn't the ONLY thing that matters,

Then we're done here.

[X9tails327X]

On 1/11/2017 at 8:31 AM, Insizer said:

I think that I'm not alone in saying this, but please DE, for the love of god and all that is holy, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor. It is damn near cancer to the game. There are many things that can be done: nerf Synoid Simulor, nerf Mirage, make it so that the simulor orbs from a clone cannot combine with those of the other clones and the actual user, make it so that each shot requires a short charge up. I don't particularly care, I just want this issue fixed. It has been the greater part of a year, and nothing has been done at all despite this being one of the most requested and complained about things on the forums. I just want this fixed and have the fix actually work without making the simulor series useless.

I mean its like you don't enjoy being Over powered against low level enemies...If you face enemies higher than level 100+ (Which you probably don't) You would understand that Synoid Simulor is a great weapon to use against high level enemies, but it helps it even more to use it with mirage with it to really bring the damage of the weapon to life.

If you're complaining about this weapon and Mirage then obviously you don't like to breeze through missions. You enjoy spending hours inside of a defense struggling every second. When people say a community ruins games you can look at your post and realize what they mean.

[Doshology]

On 1/11/2017 at 8:31 AM, Insizer said:

I think that I'm not alone in saying this, but please DE, for the love of god and all that is holy, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor. It is damn near cancer to the game. There are many things that can be done: nerf Synoid Simulor, nerf Mirage, make it so that the simulor orbs from a clone cannot combine with those of the other clones and the actual user, make it so that each shot requires a short charge up. I don't particularly care, I just want this issue fixed. It has been the greater part of a year, and nothing has been done at all despite this being one of the most requested and complained about things on the forums. I just want this fixed and have the fix actually work without making the simulor series useless.

Here's the problem with what you are suggesting. It WONT solve the fact that people are still going to find other ways to beat hard missions fast. This weapon and warframe you're complaining about are equally hard to obtain. Mirage's pieces each require almost half of a day to craft. Synoid simular requires 125,000 standing, AND Mastery Rank 12 to obtain, so of course its damage should reflect it's Master Rank requirement

 

The combo in itself is just apart of the Warframe, there are other builds with her that do almost the same amount of damage that will rise even after you complain and get the developers to magically turn the Synoid simulor into trash like the Gammacore. You can't just sit there and go, "Wow this person is clearing all of these enemies super fast! this is cancer" when other Warframes and combos kill just as fast and everything hinges on enemies levels. And that draws back to the problems in every gaming community; When something is good or shows up too often the first thing they do is Shout for a nerf without rationally thinking about all the sides of what they are complaining about.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Doshology

[ArchPhaeton]

On 1/14/2017 at 8:54 AM, DEATHLOK said:

I would like to point out the options to Abort Mission and play with Friends Only. More often than not, your game gets ruined because you let it get ruined.

I'm pretty quick to abort missions eclipsed by rushers, myself. I'll just bug out until I find a group that works.

This thread would have been about Ash a couple months ago. The community falls into a predicable bloodthirsty cycle every few months, demanding yet another Warframe or weapon be sacrificed, as it's ruining their "fun." Someone at DE gets aggravated enough to drop a tactical nuke on the offending material, the community rejoices, laments, and fights a while. Then the bloodlust returns, focused on something else that is ruining someone's "fun."

A crippling lack of balance runs throughout the game, and this is likely the root cause. The community, and the tendency of DE to overreact, makes the situation worse.

This thread is depressing, because the last time I read something like this, Ash was wrecked, and that was a frame I enjoyed once in a while. I no longer play it. The same will happen with Mirage in the near future. I don't use Mirage, but I can understand why some enjoy it. I don't feel the need to take that away from anyone, as I can quit any mission that doesn't feel right and get a different group in short order.

I am thankful that one of my favorite frames isn't this cycle's sacrificial lamb, but the cycle doesn't end.

Read this... it's gold and pretty much sums up the whole thing. Made me smile as well.

[Max_AKC]

Just wait for DE to unleash the Sentient arm cannon, the power of which scales with the skill of its use. Then Warframe will be even more merry and joyful than is currently made so by the lovely Miragulator :3

[GmG-ITA]

For me, the problem can be solved by reducing to three the maximum number of vortexes for simulor 

pros

almost no negative impact on the normal users of simulor

reduced mirage+ simulor visual effects

 

[VonDodo]

6 hours ago, ArchPhaeton said:

Read this... it's gold and pretty much sums up the whole thing. Made me smile as well.

Basically you are asking an MMO player to play it like a single player game or like a multiplayer game instead how its supposed to be?

Would be fair if selecting simulor + mirage disabled the option PUBLIC, but not what you are asking.

[Reifnir]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)Englands Own said:

unfortunately Mirage and the Simulor work perhaps a little too well.

This approach is wrong in many, many ways. 

If a weapon/frame combo is OP in a horde-killing game Warframe has long since become, you don't nerf the gear in question, you add harder content where previously OP stuff becomes entry-level. Fissures/sorties too easy with Spamulor? Introduce Hard Mode fissures with level 130+ enemies and two relics per roll, you'll be HAPPY to see a Simulor Mirage there. You get to keep the game alive that way. Nerfing everything will only lead to stagnation quicker than anyone wants. 

[KingAlkaiser]

a lot of people have been complaining about this weapon in general for a very long time op you not alone on this i also agree the weapon at the very least needs to be reworked or changed.

to sum it up once again for those who are still defending this skill-less weapon:

 

Quote

Biggest AOE

-Shoots around corners

-No self damage

-Aiming not required

-High status proc makes this a good late game weapon with corrosive and blast CC

-Uses rifle ammo, ammoefficient

-Recovers mana (= more endless mana on top of OP zenurik )

-Guaranteed electricity procs for even more CC

-Extremely high dps even with all the utility/efficiency/ that this gun has

-NO REAL OBVIOUS  DRAWBACKS, aside from fixed range, but that comes with a host of new advantages. (can just buy with plat and points extremely easy to earn for syndicate+rank for it extremely easy to earn specially with boost)

-Largest AOE of all weapons

-Area of denial aswell, just to top it off

-Shoots through disruptors in Raid NM, providng instant clear

-Can attach a silencer mod to use in spy missions (lol)

-Even has decent crit

-definition of EASY mode engaged.

 

out of all this the biggest offender is the fact this weapon requires absolutely 0 aim or control from your part you literally just left click anywhere on the entire screen in all directions and you get extreme AoE damage/  on top of no damage back+a lot of ammo on wep and everything else described is too much.

tonkor might be OP as well but at least tonkor got 2 bullets/weird projectile and "almost" always requires to ...............aim and shoot at the enemy instead of shooting at the ceiling like synoid and blowing entire screen up.  I am suprised people continue to defend this wep, only reason to defend is lazyness that comes from using it.

give it damage back or something like the ogris and people won't be spamming all over instead they would at least carefully position and aim ( one of many solutions that can happen)

P.S- saying to never play with others or public is the worst solution to this as said.

Edited January 19, 2017 by KingAlkaiser

[Extroah]

Give Simulor self damage > watch the Forums get set on a fiery mix of fire, salt and tears > profit.

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, KingAlkaiser said:

give it damage back or something like the ogris and people won't be spamming all over instead they would at least carefully position and aim

Except that giving it self damage would render it beyond useless.

Lets look at the basics shall we?
The orbs have a travel range of 10 meters.
The merge damage radius is 11 meters, while the manual detonation damage radius is only 5 meters.
This means that if self damage were implemented every single use would equal a self death with absolutely no way to avoid it.  And since you can't even equip a Terminal Velocity to it you can't increase how far away the orbs fly.

So no, just adding self damage to the synoid simulor wouldn't work.
That would be like making the Soma Prime deal a slash proc to the player every time its fired.

Also one thing: I don't really use the Synoid Simulor.  I find it boring.
On the other hand I see the fact that its MR12 (which despite your claims isn't "easy" to get to unless you sit on Akkad/Berehynia all day) means that it should be powerful and strong.
Otherwise what's the point of having it at MR12 if, like most of the nerfers I've read, want to render it utterly incapable of hurting anything beyond level 10?

Also one thing your missing from your list:
-It requires time to build up damage unless you're playing a Mirage.
That shouldn't be ignored really.
If you compare the damage it deals from Mirage to putting it on any other frame the weapon becomes quite a bit more balanced in terms of how much damage its dealing out.
But of course nerfers like you don't really care.....I mean hek, you don't even care if your suggestions to "balance" the weapon are even viable let alone playable...

Edited January 19, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Charlitoooo]

What are the cons to nerf the radius? It's either nerfing radius or nerfing damages. 11m radius 10m away in front of you is just ... too good for the damages it gives, regardless it's mirage wielding it or no. Or just make it like the Telos Boltace, hitting in sight of view. But whatever, I don't really care since, as soon as I see a miramulor, I quit/restart. easy as that. Just like in game, it's sad there is no options to ignore ... threads ... This type of thread and ember WoF threads, it's a bit tiring, even if I understand things need to move here ! 

[KingAlkaiser]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Except that giving it self damage would render it beyond useless.

Lets look at the basics shall we?
The orbs have a travel range of 10 meters.
The merge damage radius is 11 meters, while the manual detonation damage radius is only 5 meters.
This means that if self damage were implemented every single use would equal a self death with absolutely no way to avoid it.  And since you can't even equip a Terminal Velocity to it you can't increase how far away the orbs fly.

So no, just adding self damage to the synoid simulor wouldn't work.
That would be like making the Soma Prime deal a slash proc to the player every time its fired.

Also one thing: I don't really use the Synoid Simulor.  I find it boring.
On the other hand I see the fact that its MR12 (which despite your claims isn't "easy" to get to unless you sit on Akkad/Berehynia all day) means that it should be powerful and strong.
Otherwise what's the point of having it at MR12 if, like most of the nerfers I've read, want to render it utterly incapable of hurting anything beyond level 10?

Also one thing your missing from your list:
-It requires time to build up damage unless you're playing a Mirage.
That shouldn't be ignored really.
If you compare the damage it deals from Mirage to putting it on any other frame the weapon becomes quite a bit more balanced in terms of how much damage its dealing out.
But of course nerfers like you don't really care.....I mean hek, you don't even care if your suggestions to "balance" the weapon are even viable let alone playable...

 

first of all way to cut out stuff from the entirety of my own writing i guess you missed few words cut out:

 

Quote

*( one of many solutions that can happen)*

aka "one of several ways" aka a variety of things that can be done, albeit i agree with kamikaze from range ( funny how OP the range on this wep can be used agaisn't negative stuff as well) would suck but it was rapid suggestion not the end all.

 

that aside mastery rank barely has anything to do with weapon power or potency look for example:

dread ( rank 0 ) boltor prime ( rank 2 ) hek (4) tonkor + amprex (5) just to name a few (there is a lot of strong "fair" weapons that has nothing to do with mastery)

the only difference is all these weapons do not have instant 10+ m auto radius on top of secondary blast from alt fire // high magazine capacity for all the damage it puts out, and yes even without mirage properly forma (very low to that) destroys entire screen on a good 75% game.  This weapons just has too many good things with very minimal things in return for the power it has.

heck like i said as overpowered tonkor damage is you get negated by 2 bullets and having to reload after+ you know........you actually have to aim at enemy as opposed to synoid which is literally turn brain off and left click at anything/any direction/*any corner* you can even shoot opposite enemy and nuke high dmg this is flawned in its design.

I also agree with reduction of AoE from 10 to something like 3-5m make people actually aim at the targets to get kills with it,anything its open for suggestion on this flawned and completely unbalanced by design weapon.

P.S-

who is this " nerfers" lol im sorry you do not like to hear people who care for the game voice their opinion, simply wish to state the obvious (it has been complained a lot).  Only people who don't want "any" kind of changes be it good or bad are those lazy players ( not speaking about anyone in particular) who just want a mindless shooting galery with 0 to no effort or any kind of difficulty or thought put into the players hands.

but hey i guess left clicking the floor and nuking entire room ( making multiplayer and playing with others boring since whoever is not wielding this weapon of mass destruction won't even get a chance to even shoot at enemy or anything like all weapon in the game should be.

as said before a lot of stuff is powerful to compare but you got to start with the biggest elephant in the room.

Edited January 19, 2017 by KingAlkaiser
missed words

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, Charlitoooo said:

What are the cons to nerf the radius? It's either nerfing radius or nerfing damages. 11m radius 10m away in front of you is just ... too good for the damages it gives, regardless it's mirage wielding it or no. Or just make it like the Telos Boltace, hitting in sight of view. But whatever, I don't really care since, as soon as I see a miramulor, I quit/restart. easy as that. Just like in game, it's sad there is no options to ignore ... threads ... This type of thread and ember WoF threads, it's a bit tiring, even if I understand things need to move here ! 

Question: and how far do we nerf the radius?
The radius of the base Simulor is 7 meters for its merge damage.
The base simulor can also merge for higher damage output than the Synoid version (and yes they still haven't fixed the merge damage not increasing as it should meaning that each merge of the Synoid version deals 175 damage on each merge instead of increasing like it should, compared to the base version getting to 230 damage).

So they should nerf its range to 7 or 8 meters?  And have it outclassed by its 'weaker' version that is only MR5 when its still MR12?
What would even be the point of the Synoid version then?

Also why nerf the damage?
It already has one of the lower damage outputs among AoE weapons.
Literally every other AoE weapon in the game deals more damage than the Synoid Simulor.
Literally the only thing going for it compared to other launchers is its large explosion radius.

Penta: 350 blast damage, 5 meter radius
Kulstar: 200 itinal damage, 75 each cluster bomb, variable radius but rather large.
Angstrum: 175 hit damage, 250 AoE damage, multiple rockets for large AoE
Ogris: 500 bast damage 6 meter radius
Secura Penta: 375 blast damage, 5 meter radius
Tonkor: 325 damage, 5 meter radius
Zar: 175 damage with main projectile, and 50 damage each individual bomblet.

Hek, even if they fix the merge damage not increasing the Synoid Simulor still falls behind other launchers in damage...leaving only its radius that really makes it good.

57 minutes ago, KingAlkaiser said:

I also agree with reduction of AoE from 10 to something like 3-5m make people actually aim at the targets to get kills with it,anything its open for suggestion on this flawned broken wep.

And again do any of you nerf criers even look at the base version of the gun?  Or even try to compare it to other weapons to try to "balance" things?
The base simulor has a merge radius of 7 meters.  Every other launcher has a radius of 5 meters or more.
Cutting down the synoids range to 3-5 meters would make it undeniably worse than its base level...while still being MR12 compared to MR5.  And would also give it the smallest AoE out of any launcher in game...as well as having the shortest travel distance....and the lowest damage....

Can't you nerfers actually come up with a viable and playable solution to the gun instead of wanting to nerf it to the point where it literally can't do anything?

Add onto that the fact that it can't equip firestorm, and that any other AoE weapon with firestorm hits for a larger than 5 meter radius blast size and I can see that you're only going to be satisfied if the Synoid Simulor is nerfed to the point where it is utterly useless and pointless and is the weakest AoE weapon in the game.
And why?

57 minutes ago, KingAlkaiser said:

hat aside mastery rank barely has anything to do with weapon power or potency look for example

Further DE has stated quite a few times that they want to make the mastery lock on weapons make sense and relate to its power.
They just need to actually do that.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

On 11.1.2017 at 3:40 PM, I3jionaa said:

simple sollution is to give player ability to set not be matched with certain frame + weapon in public games.

so you could set no to -> to Mirrage + simulor + telos boltace, or any other frame you do not like to play with. just for public matchmaking

this is a great idea, i want this now....! :D

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I agree the combo has to go... It's just ridiculous... I can't count the number of times I've been in game with a mirage and the end result shows she killed 1200 enemies while the rest of the team barely managed to find 100 enemies to kill amids all the vortexes all over the place. The noise is obnoxious, the visual pollution is obnoxious, it requires no skill whatsover... As it's basically a vauban vortex that can be shot every time you fire.

So yes, it needs to be nerfed asap, as it does hurt enjoyement of many players when running public games.

That said, I do think the problem will simply migrate to another weapon if simulor is nerfed. Mirage players will move to other AOE weapons and still wreck about as much. Also think Ember also needs a nerf to her world on fire. I mean, everyone had their panties up in a bunch when Ash was killing 18 enemies as a stationary target, but it's perfectly fine to have a frame that can simply walk the map and everything dies around her....

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

3 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Penta: 350 blast damage, 5 meter radius
Kulstar: 200 itinal damage, 75 each cluster bomb, variable radius but rather large.
Angstrum: 175 hit damage, 250 AoE damage, multiple rockets for large AoE
Ogris: 500 bast damage 6 meter radius
Secura Penta: 375 blast damage, 5 meter radius
Tonkor: 325 damage, 5 meter radius
Zar: 175 damage with main projectile, and 50 damage each individual bomblet.

welp...

u do realize all those weapons either have, low magazine size, selfdamage or other mechanics that put them FAR behind synoid sumlor, except the tonkor wich is another broken weapon.

synoid has the biggest aoe,

good damage,

no self damage,

good ammo efficiency,

viable crit stats,

good status

and it staggers everything around u. 

 

oh did i say that it also restores energy and triggers a syndicate aoe?

right, and u dont even have to aim with it, that sounds totally legit. 

easiest to use and one of the most powerful guns in the game... its the tonkor issue all over again. 

 

only a fool would deny how broken it is, especially when u combine it with mirage because the shots from her clones will deal the same damage as u do, wich is a bug in itself.

 

lets not forget that ppl who bring this cancer into a public match will spoil the fun and ruin the game experience for every other player in his squad and this is why this gun needs to have its machanics changed..... also hall of mirrors could use some work.

 

i'd say, make the weapon deal no damage when the vortexes merge, only staggers enemies. now u have to stack multiple vortexes to increase the damage wich u can release by using its alternative fire. this way the gun is still viable and can not be abused to cheese 95% of the games current content. also limit the amount of vortexes to a certain amount wich would prevent ppl complaining about vortexes messing up ppls frame rate.

Edited January 19, 2017 by ..-Hayden-Tenno-..

[ArchPhaeton]

9 hours ago, VonDodo said:

Basically you are asking an MMO player to play it like a single player game or like a multiplayer game instead how its supposed to be?

Would be fair if selecting simulor + mirage disabled the option PUBLIC, but not what you are asking.

Each tenno should be able to play the way they want. That includes miramulors and WoF embers. Balance is needed as more content is added, but this nerf outrage cycle is so predictable it's almost laughable.

8 hours ago, Reifnir said:

This approach is wrong in many, many ways. 

If a weapon/frame combo is OP in a horde-killing game Warframe has long since become, you don't nerf the gear in question, you add harder content where previously OP stuff becomes entry-level. Fissures/sorties too easy with Spamulor? Introduce Hard Mode fissures with level 130+ enemies and two relics per roll, you'll be HAPPY to see a Simulor Mirage there. You get to keep the game alive that way. Nerfing everything will only lead to stagnation quicker than anyone wants. 

That would just render most other gear/frame-weapon combos obsolete and throw us in another cycle of nerf/buff rage (not to mention the usual "endgame is bad/boring" threads). Whenever I get a miramulor/ember I just sit back and look for ayatans or something. And I barely get one or two miramulors/kill/damage hoarders a day. As long as they don't make the mission fail all is good for me. Getting mad because someone else gets the most kills every 30 missions or so is rather childish.

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

synoid has the biggest aoe,

good damage,

no self damage,

good ammo efficiency,

viable crit stats,

good status

and it staggers everything around u. 

 

oh did i say that it also restores energy and triggers a syndicate aoe?

right, and u dont even have to aim with it, that sounds totally legit. 

Lets go down this list shall we?

Good damage...as in the lowest damage out of all of the launchers....but apparently to the nerfers this is "good damage" for a launcher type weapon.  I would hate to see what they label any of the other launcher weapon damage values....

No self damage: Fair assessment...mostly.  The thing that your missing is that for pretty much every other weapon any amount of situational awareness negates any risk of self damage.

Good ammo efficiency: True.  Though TBH ammo efficiency is a moot point with how easy it is to have carrier or ammo restores but I'll give you this point anyways.

Viable crit stats: So a 10% crit chance with a 2.0x multiplier is "viable crit"?  When pretty much no one builds crit for a weapon with less than 20% chance?
With that logic the Zarr is better at crits (15% chance with 2.5x multiplier) and coupled with the Zarrs bomblets the effective crit is higher, The Penta/Secura Penta are equal to it.
So saying "Oh it has a viable crit chance which makes it better than any of the other launchers" simply isn't true.

Good status?  Again it has a 10% status chance.
The kulstar has a 10% chance (which is actually higher due to its cluster bombs), the Zarr has a 20% status chance, the Penta/Secura Penta are the same in status.  The ogris ties with it as well.  And the Angstrum beats it because it also has 10% but due to how its shooting works equals out to a higher status chance effectively.
So again, it doesn't really have "good status" compared to the other launchers.

The staggering can stay or go, but again with the very short firing range and relatively low damage it does make up for those deficits.

Syndicate AoE is hardly unique to this weapon.  Plus as the AoE is magnetic damage doesn't really do much...
The Secura Penta has a better syndicate AoE anyways.  Its radiation damage and guarantees the confusion...

But lets not forget its downsides shall we?
-Lowest damage of all launchers
-Shortest range of all launchers
-Requires multiple shots to get started

If you're going to list how much better it is than the other launchers, you should also list where it falls short.

1 hour ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

i'd say, make the weapon deal no damage when the vortexes merge, only staggers enemies. now u have to stack multiple vortexes to increase the damage wich u can release by using its alternative fire. this way the gun is still viable and can not be abused to cheese 95% of the games current content. also limit the amount of vortexes to a certain amount wich would prevent ppl complaining about vortexes messing up ppls frame rate.

Serious question here:
Do you even know how the simulor functions?  Especially its alt-fire?

Its alt-fire deals a flat 50 base damage.  That's it.
The damage from exploding an orb doesn't stack as the orbs merge.

Further that only has a range of 5-7 meters.

So basically you want:
A weapon that requires multiple shots to merge that then requires manual detonation in order to deal a grand total of 50 base damage over 5-7 meters.
And you think that will actually be viable?

In what way would that be viable?

Its like you don't even know anything about the weapon or the basic fact that all of its damage comes from merging.  Its other sources of damage don't even matter due to be a flat 50 that never increases.
And please don't say "But it as DoT on enemies that sit directly in its middle..." considering that the weapon has no way to hold or pull living enemies into its middle to deal that DoT damage to them.  I honestly want you to try to use the synoid simulor to have its vortex damage enemies in contact with it...and then see how pretty much any other gun in the game could out-damage it and much more easily...

You're not wanting to balance it so that its viable but can't cheese.
You want to make it unable to kill anything in 95% of content.
Why?

EDIT: Hek lets assume that the damage from the manual detonation stacks.
Which means in 2 seconds after firing 4 times I can detonate a vortex for 200 damage!
Meanwhile I can fire the opticor once and have it charging again and having dealt 1000 damage over roughly the same area of damage.
Meanwhile I can fire the penta/secura penta 4 times, each individaul grenade dealing more than 200 damage and each cover the same area of damage as your idea for the simulor.
Meanwhile I can take a pistol and deal more damage to the group of enemies in those 2 seconds than your simulor just did, even without punchthrough mods.
So in what way would the simulor be "viable" with your idea in place?

Edited January 19, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Praxxor]

People complaining about Mirage+Simulor when I can outdamage anyone with anyframe and a @(*()$ Atterax lmao. You nerf one thing, another will pop up, there are combos that are easier and much stronger than any form of Mirage+Simulor combo, some are Mirage with other weapons (mostly melee), the Simulor one is just too easy to execute, so all you sensitive people get upset over it because it's the one you see the most. ASA it gets nerfed, another combo will turn up (I bet it's gonna be Atterax or Orthos Prime with proper mods, because both of those can outdamage simulor and don't need a specific frame to work), then you'll complain and whine about that one. You're wasting time and energy here, but most importantly: server space and bandwidth on forums.

Also

Git gud