Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

[Hi.Im.Limbo]

I wonder if they'll be ever changing the augmentation for limbo's new abilities.

If I heard it correctly, his damage will increase on how many enemies are inside the rift (4th Ability)

and then, his 3rd ability augmentation, which is the rift torrent, Increase his damage multiplier by 20% based on how many enemies are inside the rift. This could be a great advantage for limbo. 

 

About the limbo rework. I'm pretty speechless, I main limbo though, never thought that they would  improve his abilities even more. With this rework for limbo, he'll be receiving a lot of  once again. And I'll be seeing a deluxe skin, and primed version of limbo in the future, Keep up the good work D.E. You're amazing! 

P.S. The Devstream #88 Made My Day!

#HypeForLimbo

Edited February 18, 2017 by Dr.Scizar

[Voidforged]

It will definitely be jarring to have to change my entire movement pattern to a slower one to allow for his dash effect, it'd be great if they come up with a way to allow both, but I'm not hopeful, pretty sure none of the developers actually know how to go fast.

Sprint speed is totally irrelevant. Anyone trying to go fast is using parkour, spending 90% of the time in the air.

[MokutoBunshi]

1 hour ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

hey wait! lemme join in i'm still on that quest too and nobody seems to want to join in that last archwing part

Sorry we finished ^_^; but you didnt miss nothin we got 1 part.

 

]\'[

[Aechmea]

31 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Banish - Garbage

Limbo will die constantly in sorties if he brings in more than one enemy in at a time.

>knockdown

>Time Stop

 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Finally. I can just time stop Vey Hek while his face is open, stack bullets in front of his face and then restart time. Certain bosses are now gonna get one shotted.

[Archenius]

Limbo already sounds way better than our current limbo! man I really want limbo prime or a deluxe skin!

[2Peter3Nine]

3 minutes ago, TwevOWNED said:

Then don't roll? 

Timestop and knockdown is more than enough time to kill enemies.

Number of enemies held will likely be affected by power strength. Stopping bullets is eh, but we live in a melee meta so just hit them.

The knockdown now hits enemies that enter after it is deployed, instead of now where it just lets them in. That, with timestop, is enough to make it incredibly strong and denying an area.

Can't speak for the 3 as I don't know the numbers or enough of its interactions. Most likely you won't be able to use it in conjunction with 4, but we'll see. Overall it is an improvement over the current version.

Are you jelly when you see me rolling?

I'll never stop rolling, especially with how useful it can be.

 

Hey look, he needs to use his 2nd to make his 1st usful now. Garbage.

They didn't need to change his first at all, it already did a knockdown, it worked great.

 

Yeah, of course, but they said if there are too many things being stopped the power turns off,

and you can't use your rift powers, (all his powers) for a time.

 

Hey, he needs to use his 2nd to make his ULTIMATE POWER useful. Garbage.

At least the enemies that enter the cataclysm get staggered for 2 seconds, giving you plenty of time to... oh, he's dead.

Right, because limbo is super squishy.

 

With this build limbo is actually less useful in a sortie, at least for the long run.

Sure, he'll be able to stop projectiles and enemies inside the rift with his 2nd,

but that's not going to stop the enemies having tons are health.

You're going to have to start time to hurt the enemies, and in that time you'll die.

Especially with the short range.

It's almost self defeating.

Here is a glimpse at all his powers being used effectively in a sortie.

Cataclysm is on, Surge is on, Rift Stop is on, limbo is riftwalking,

X enemies and projectiles inside the cataclysm are stopped, player projectiles too.

These enemies are level 100, and have tons of health.

 

Failure one,

Someone in the group has a autofire weapon, and quickly exceeds the stop limit,

limbo's powers are all turned off and he can't use them for a while.

Limbo dies.

 

Failure two,

The cataclysm is full, and limbo has set up as many projectiles as he can without maxing and braking the rift.

He starts time so his projectiles can hit enemies. They barely take any damage and kill limbo.

 

Failure three,

Limbo spams enemies with his melee weapon in the cataclysm,

limbo will need to spam melee for a pretty long time on each enemy.

if they take damage on hit, he'll still need to hit them a lot,

giving plenty of time for more enemies to show up, and possible exceed the limit and break the rift.

Leaving limbo worthless and dead.

 

Failure four,

Limbo spams enemies with his melee weapon in the cataclysm,

if they take damage on time restart, he'll need to start time for the damage to take effect,

since you can't tell how much damage you dealt overall, the amount would likely not be enough and they'd kill limbo.

 

Limbo needs more CC than a 2 second stager if he's going to survive level 100 missions.

[taiiat]

this isn't a MOBA, and designing Abilities around being such actively hurts the game.

you have 4 Ability Slots. they're 4 different Tools. if one is purpose built to be better than the others ('Ultimate'), you're almost guaranteed to make 1+ of those other three Tools pointless.

 

i'd like to think Warframe is smarter than that. it's capable of being smarter than that, so i could only hope for as such.

Edited February 18, 2017 by taiiat

[Xion]

As expected every time a frame gets rework, players will find things to complain about. 2 things I can see players (including myself) complaining about once the rework goes live is about his "rift dash" and the "Time Stop." 

On demand rift walk is nice, especially if it doesn't have an energy cost or duration. However, if it does end up becoming his roll (tap shift), then people will complain that it'll be difficult annoying to parkour with him without constantly entering and exiting the rift. Probably the fastest way to travel in a straight line is to spam roll on every frame, or even the double jump roll (space followed by space+roll) but if his rift "dash" prevents that interaction, then Limbo might become a slower traveler. P.S. I know about his passive MS while in the rift.

The second complaint is from Limbo's squad mates. So imagine you have a max range Limbo casting Cataclysm for who knows what reason and captures multiple enemies and everyone in the squad in the bubble. Then, Limbo uses a high duration Time Stop. Enemies are all frozen, as well as their projectiles, however, ally projectiles are also frozen. While in the cataclysm with this Time Stop up, allies won't be able to kill anyone in the bubble unless they switch to their guns or use abilities. This basically becomes a second case of Mag's Magnetize bubble... Only difference is that Mag's bubble actually does damage as enemies shoot into it.

I'd like to end this by stating that I understand that I have limited information because the rework actually has not come yet. This is my speculation and me trying to predict how the community will react to the changes. It's not surprising that whenever DE changes something about a frame, they get both praise and criticism. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Xionyde134

[Xekrin]

44 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Banish - Garbage

45 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

New 2nd - But garbage.

46 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Cataclysm - The same power - Garbage.

45 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

how bout magnetic anomalies instead?

So, I'm going on nothing but a whim here.  You think the rework is umm.. what is the word... oh its on the tip of my tongue... what is it...oh right, Garbage?

Also, Limbo makes rifts, Mag does magnetics.

I'd say give it a try before going over the deep end, but your mind seems pretty made up.

May as well just delete him now  

 

 

 

[TrickshotMcGee]

19 minutes ago, TwevOWNED said:

Then don't roll? 

Right, so don't use one of the most basic and quick maneuvering movement tools we have. And if we accidentally slide in combat, we're just screwed? Gotcha, that's definitely good game design. 

20 minutes ago, TwevOWNED said:

Timestop and knockdown is more than enough time to kill enemies.

Depends on what you Banish. If you accidentally nab an Ancient with Infested or Corrupted, then the Ancient is the only thing affected by the knockdown and everything else is free to attack you at will. It may just be one enemy, but it's a fairly common enemy in half of the factions in Warframe. So that power should be dependent on whether there's a certain enemy around? Banishing singularly was safer and more effective, even though it was slower. 

 

It's a cool redesign, but it also makes him WAY weaker than before. He's more vulnerable to enemies in his own plane of existence and has no way to boost his own damage to make him actually deadly in the Rift as Rift Surge did before. Ranged combat inside the paused Rift is now a gigantic f*ck you. And if you pause too many enemies or projectiles in the Rift it kicks you out and cancels your Rift walk, that's definitely a good idea for a Warframe that largely relies on not getting hit because he's made of glass. If it pauses enemies, then there's no need to pause projectiles because they can't shoot at you when paralyzed. If they didn't treat it stupidly, then the technical limitations would be much higher and it wouldn't give Limbo cause to get murdered just because enemy spawning and health levels are broken as hell. 

 

Like I said, it's cool. But the problem is that DE seemed more obsessed with cool than high-level functionality as he was capable of before. DE could have approached this dozens of different ways, and they chose something that is flashier than it is effective. Even in the goddamn Devstream, Rebecca nearly died half of a dozen times playing with Limbo and she knew how his abilities were supposed to work. How does that look for people who are currently proficient with him? Not well, not well at all. 

[Einblinr]

I still would like to see if we could hack panels when both player and console are in rift together, say via being in Cataclysm. Might be fine even if the effect of the hack (alarms turned back off, etc.) only took effect once the console is no longer in the rift. Just so Limbo and Co. can have breathing room while hacking under fire.

[BalaDeSilver]

3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

I have the same concerns and similar suggestions.

Passive - While I think a passive that restricts parkour is... annoying, for the lack of nicer words, I'd be fine with it IF it had one more addition: If he stands still and presses shift (or whatever you map your roll-key to), i think he should simply warp in and out of the Rift, without doing any dash.

Banish - I'd reverse that: Tap to singletarget, Hold to AoE. Why? Singletargetting requires more precision, which is easier with tap-casting.

Stasis - Penalties to being in the Rift if overloaded is a no-no. Way too harsh. But SOME penalty, like the duration of the ability gets hastened (i.e. you freeze them for less time) the more enemies that goes into the Rift, that I'd be fine with, as the ability seems incredibly potent otherwise.

Rift Surge - Damage amp in Rift is fine. Enemies exploding with AoE damage is fine. Enemies causing mini-cataclysm is very NOT fine.
I'd suggest to change the ability to function, cast-wise, like Accelerant: Recastable, with a selfbuff (Damage amp when you are in Rift) and debuffing enemies in an AoE (to cause them to explode on death). The death-explosions can hurt cross-Rift.
The mini-cataclysms should be scrapped entirely though, those just reek of issues.

Cataclysm - With a short stun, it would be fine. But I'd also like:
* Don't allow enemies to exit the sphere by themselves (no hard-CC when touching the shrinking walls though).
* Enemies in Cataclysm hurt by Banish will be expelled violently with ragdoll.
* Holdcast it when active to quickly shrink the sphere's size manually.

There you can get control and precision, along with the ability for some wild (and slightly risky) AoE stuff. Sounds like it would work, imo.

 

I liked your ideas. As a main Limbo, I guess that a increase in size of the Cataclysm for each enemy killed under the effect of Rift Surge (make a nice combo with Cataclysmic Continuum) would be better anf would justify the mini Cataclysms, but I agree that it would be better if that was an Augment thought.

And I'd love to go through enemies that are outside the Rift while I'm inside it, and vice versa (like the operator's Void Dash), because it's something that really makes sense. 

(sorry if I misspelled something, it's 2 am here.) 

Edited February 18, 2017 by BalaDeSilver
I forgot a detail. Sorry.

[(PSN)sixsecondsleft]

Limbo is my favorite as well, and as General said, AoE on Banish is a terrible idea.  Limbo needs to control exactly what he is bringing into the rift, and AoE ruins that.  The dodge/roll to enter the rift is terrible too.  I don't mind trying the 3rd and 4th ability changes, as I don't really use them all that much now, but the changes to the 1st and 2nd would break how Limbo players play him (at least for me). 

[Archenius]

11 hours ago, Shadu said:

Honestly the rework seemed decent but still leaves a lot to be wanted, his Cataclysm now seems useless compared to the AoE Banish, you're still as likely to get instantly killed in the rift, you're still a huge hindrance to your squad with your abilities. You're still useless while you're outside of your rift, your skills still take a lot of setting up which doesn't suit a fast paced game like Warframe (and there are plenty of more things that are still wrong with Limbo). So while the freeze time ability looked awesome to use, past the initial reaction I'm quite a bit let down and think they still have a lot to tinker away on the Limbo rework.

Pretty sure his 4th ability is far from useless considering the fact that Cataclysm can do  that banish can't and thats covering a small area (or a huge area because if your like me you put all range mods in) and press 2 and bam! all the enemies inside the rift would be stopped dead in there tracks Though They did say they are still adding more to Limbo.

[AnOldAlias]

Personally, I like the rework idea's so far.

But I'd honestly mess around with Cataclysm a bit more.

It is named Cataclysm, it should act as one. You're collapsing a Rift Pocket on your enemies, and it should feel as if that was the case. Not entirely sure as to how one could make that happen per-say, but it should have a cataclysmic effect to the enemies in said pocket. Give it a bit of synergy with some other powers to, outside of it just being a bubble rift and AOE time-stop(Which is still good, don't get me wrong), as well as a bit of a outside-the-bubble-lightning-effect-when-enemies-are-surged-and-in-the-bubble which may not necessarily help anyway because enemies ARE killed to fast in general, outside or inside, even at high level's that can be the case depending on the individuals participating.

Though for Solo this is a bit of a godsend, but, still. My statements do sorta stand a bit, I think.

[Archenius]

8 hours ago, Nelizar said:

Personally, I like the rework idea's so far.

But I'd honestly mess around with Cataclysm a bit more.

It is named Cataclysm, it should act as one. You're collapsing a Rift Pocket on your enemies, and it should feel as if that was the case. Not entirely sure as to how one could make that happen per-say, but it should have a cataclysmic effect to the enemies in said pocket. Give it a bit of synergy with some other powers to, outside of it just being a bubble rift and AOE time-stop(Which is still good, don't get me wrong), as well as a bit of a outside-the-bubble-lightning-effect-when-enemies-are-surged-and-in-the-bubble which may not necessarily help anyway because enemies ARE killed to fast in general, outside or inside, even at high level's that can be the case depending on the individuals participating.

Though for Solo this is a bit of a godsend, but, still. My statements do sorta stand a bit, I think.

True I too also wished Cataclysm would add more good things like a small aoe heal or something

[2Peter3Nine]

8 minutes ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

>knockdown

>Time Stop

 

Limbo is rifting, and time is stopped,

he banished 9 enemies,

they don't get knocked to the ground because time is stopped.

Limbo starts time, they fall down, limbo stops time, they stay down,

 

follow through one,

limbo uses the down finisher melee attack on an enemy,

it doesn't do much damage, so he does it again, eventually he kills the first enemy,

he moves to the 2nd enemy, time starts back up because it possibly has a short time,

other enemies get up and kill limbo.

 

follow through two,

limbo uses the down finisher melee attack on an enemy,

it doesn't do much damage, so he does it again, eventually he kills the first enemy,

he moves to the 2nd enemy, time starts back up because it possibly has a short time,

he tried to banish the remaining enemies to remove them from the rift so they can't hurt him,

but he also brings in more enemies into the rift, and is killed.

 

follow through three,

limbo uses the down finisher melee attack on an enemy,

it doesn't do much damage, so he does it again, eventually he kills the first enemy,

he moves to the 2nd enemy, time stop is a toggleable ability, so it's till on.

he kills the 2nd enemy eventually, and the 3rd, and 4th, he runs out of energy,

he is now helpless and dies.

 

follow through four,

limbo uses the down finisher melee attack on an enemy,

it doesn't do much damage, so he does it again, eventually he kills the first enemy,

he moves to the 2nd enemy, time stop is a toggleable ability, so it's till on.

he kills the 2nd enemy eventually, and the 3rd, and 4th, and eventually all 9.

He then repeats the process, how boring.

 

follow through five,

limbo has a max damage opticore, charges it, shoots,

time is stopped though and the projectile hangs there.

he charge shoots at each downed stopped enemy, then starts time.

they are hit, most are dead, some are still alive,

stops time again, charge shoots at the survivors, then starts time again, the 9 enemies are now all dead.

 

It really doesn't change how i'd play him, just makes it more annoying.

 

How to play limbo,

 

Banish Assassin,

riftwalk as much as possible,

banish enemy, kill them with powerful weapon,

banish next enemy, kill them with powerful weapon.

repeat till they are all dead.

 

Cataclysm Sniper,

Cataclysm a far away area while rifting and surging,

shoot enemies inside the cataclysm with super powerful sniper from a safe place.

 

Rift Reviver,

riftwalk, and revive fallen allies without worry of getting downed while reviving them.

Most helpful in areas with ramparts, and sortie bosses.

 

Rift Decoy/Shield,

riftwalk at enemies, staying between then and your allies.

they will more than likely target you since you are closer.

Most helpful in areas with ramparts, and sortie bosses.

 

Banish having an AoE can be very self destructive,

what if one or more the enemies is resistant to stagger and knockdown? You're dead.

 

The new 2nd is very cool but ultimately self destroying, since it comes with the chance of not being able to use your powers for a time.

You also have to turn it off to deal the damage in the first place, so it also wastes energy when you can just do something more useful.

Like useing the broken scepter to create health and energy orbs for the team.

 

The new 3rd seems like it would also be hinderous.

I don't want random pockets of rift opening while limboing.

One opens behind you? you're dead because you're squishy.

 

2 extra seconds of reaction time is not going to make cataclysm better.

If it made enemies take more damage, and deal less damage, then it would be one of the most useful powers in the game.

Cataclysm sniper build would be endgame-enabled.

Hek, that alone would make limbo endgame-enabled, trial-enabled, solo-sortie-enabled.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Also doesn't Limbo have the fastest sprint speed in the game right next to Loki?

Its not about sprint speed. Like @Voidforged put it. Anyone trying to go fast using parkour. Spends most of the time in the air. That has been taken away from limbo now since roll plays a part in going a great distance.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

It's synergistic and interesting and I think it's great. Only Press 4 to win people don't enjoy synergy. But anyhow, it's still going to happen regardless ^-^

[2Peter3Nine]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

It's synergistic and interesting and I think it's great. Only Press 4 to win people don't enjoy synergy. But anyhow, it's still going to happen regardless ^-^

He already was though.

Now he has several things that make using his powers dangerous for himself.

 

His first now has an AoE,

some enemies are immune to stagger and knockdown, some enemies prevent other enemies from being staggered or knocked down.

Which makes his first more o a gamble now, compared to when it was a one banishment per cast,

because you got to control who got banished and who didn't.

What if you need to unbanish someone? You might banish an even more dangerous enemy, or even more enemies.

 

His 2nd, if it stopped enemies, but not projectiles, and didn't brake/disable your power for a time for exceeding its limit,

then it would be useful.

But as is you need to turn it off to deal damage, and it only takes a second to kill limbo.

 

His new third can create random rift pockets.

If one opens on a bombard without you knowing about it you're dead.

 

And his new 4th is the same, but now staggered enemies that enter it more often.

again, some enemies are immune to stagger and knockdown, some enemies prevent other enemies from being staggered or knocked down.

[Hrodgrim]

Bumping for visibility due to today's Devstream. Tell me what you think DE!

[NightBlitz]

9 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

His first now has an AoE,

some enemies are immune to stagger and knockdown, some enemies prevent other enemies from being staggered or knocked down.

Which makes his first more o a gamble now, compared to when it was a one banishment per cast,

because you got to control who got banished and who didn't.

What if you need to unbanish someone? You might banish an even more dangerous enemy, or even more enemies.

simple fix they could do for Banish, tap 1 for single target, hold 1 for the aoe. dont have any complaints about that, right?

[(PSN)Danilo_Franz]

Fashion frame is the real deal, and now that limbo has acquired The World as his stand, a perfect combination of colors, armor and helmet (plus the fabulous poses) should make limbo turns into DIO's stand

So what are your combination for ZA WARUDO limbo?

JoJo fans, unite!

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

15 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

He already was though.

Now he has several things that make using his powers dangerous for himself.

 

His first now has an AoE,

some enemies are immune to stagger and knockdown, some enemies prevent other enemies from being staggered or knocked down.

Which makes his first more o a gamble now, compared to when it was a one banishment per cast,

because you got to control who got banished and who didn't.

What if you need to unbanish someone? You might banish an even more dangerous enemy, or even more enemies.

 

His 2nd, if it stopped enemies, but not projectiles, and didn't brake/disable your power for a time for exceeding its limit,

then it would be useful.

But as is you need to turn it off to deal damage, and it only takes a second to kill limbo.

 

His new third can create random rift pockets.

If one opens on a bombard without you knowing about it you're dead.

 

And his new 4th is the same, but now staggered enemies that enter it more often.

again, some enemies are immune to stagger and knockdown, some enemies prevent other enemies from being staggered or knocked down.

Cataclysm's final blast takes into account the shields and health of all enemies within the Rift. It scales, that's pretty neat :)