The Euphona Prime is alt fire done wrong.

[(PSN)za450013]

12 hours ago, Seinerweisen said:

 

 The Zarr and Stradavar? you dont see the difference do you.... The Zarr has decent stats  nothing mind blowing  or revolutionary. It is a good weapon. It is an example of alternative fire done right. The Stradavar has mediocre stats...Its fully auto mode is underwhelming and its Semi-Auto mode is better but not by a huge amount. With a slight buff, it could be an example of alternative fire done right. The Euphona  is stupidly powerful in both modes. Its either a secondary mini tigris Prime (100% Status+ high slash damage) Or its an insane crit monster 30% Base crit + 2.5x Crit Damage.If you could perfectly mod for both it would be beyond overpowered. Literally Powercreep Prime. With this slight handicap, the weapons remains phenomenal but not quite OP. 

They could have just made it function so it could use both then balance the stats appropriately, nothing changes the fact that making it this way was a stupid idea. also, though it's secondary fire is really strong, the crit mode suffers at high levels because of its low status chance. Not to mention that the incredibly short range on the alt fire is so bad it kind of proves that they were going for something like the Zarr (which has almost the exact same downside on its alt fire) but screwed it up. Another reason  I think this was a screwup is that the alt fire button fires the gun instead of switching modes which works really well if the primary fire is the main mode and alt is just used occasionally at short range but alt fire is more powerful so instead, it just sucks having to hit that button to fire all the time. Also, I'm pretty sure they meant it to be top tier because of how high the MR requirement is combined with the super small ammo pool but it's outmatched by lex p in its crit mode at higher levels. I honestly think they meant it to be better and just screwed up and didn't know this was a stupid idea because they didn't test it properly or just don't understand their own game.

[(PSN)za450013]

1 hour ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I dunno, I mod for crit AND status on quite a few weapons. granted, Its next to impossible to max out both at the same time, but It gets the job done well enough. Either way, it gives us a choice for both and I don't mind that. I'll be modding mine the same way I mod all my other weapons that have decent  stats in crit and status chance

Yeah, it's not terrible or anything if you mod that way, it's still pretty strong. I thought it would be as disappointing as Cernos prime but I actually still really like euphona. I still think it was a dumb idea to make it work this way but it could be a lot worse honestly. I just wish they would stop ruining cool ideas (Cernos p, dark split sword, stradavar) this way. Also, wish they would finally understand what the point of having an alt fire is and start making more Zarrs (quality wise).

[Dragazer]

1 hour ago, Seinerweisen said:

DE would have to reduce the stats significantly. 

Except for the fact you know, its a Mastery rank 14 Prime weapon.

There isn't a reason for it to be weak.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Dragazer

[StinkyPygmy]

1 hour ago, (PS4)za450013 said:

Yeah, it's not terrible or anything if you mod that way, it's still pretty strong. I thought it would be as disappointing as Cernos prime but I actually still really like euphona. I still think it was a dumb idea to make it work this way but it could be a lot worse honestly. I just wish they would stop ruining cool ideas (Cernos p, dark split sword, stradavar) this way. Also, wish they would finally understand what the point of having an alt fire is and start making more Zarrs (quality wise).

Yeah, while I haven't used it myself I can see the merit in making the alt fire a toggle. Which honestly would be my only gripe with the weapon as far as I can see. Otherwise yeah, I find hybrid builds work just fine. Sure its a slight trade off in terms of min maxing I guess, but options are always good and I honestly think that the biggest draw of the alt fire is simply making up for a shot guns lack of range in one weapon. It gives you the option to lay down some damage before you get close or pop a guy thats running away to cover etc. So if you don't want to run with a hybrid build, you still have the advantage of being able to even shoot something at medium to long range occasionally without switching weapons. Its certainly not the worst thing to exist. I personally love weapons I can build for both crit and status anyway, so I think I'll enjoy it at any rate. 

[(PSN)za450013]

15 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Yeah, while I haven't used it myself I can see the merit in making the alt fire a toggle. Which honestly would be my only gripe with the weapon as far as I can see. Otherwise yeah, I find hybrid builds work just fine. Sure its a slight trade off in terms of min maxing I guess, but options are always good and I honestly think that the biggest draw of the alt fire is simply making up for a shot guns lack of range in one weapon. It gives you the option to lay down some damage before you get close or pop a guy thats running away to cover etc. So if you don't want to run with a hybrid build, you still have the advantage of being able to even shoot something at medium to long range occasionally without switching weapons. Its certainly not the worst thing to exist. I personally love weapons I can build for both crit and status anyway, so I think I'll enjoy it at any rate. 

It has great sounds and animations too. The firing sound is loud and powerful plus the reload sound is really mechanical, not to mention the reload has a cool animation. On top of that it's one of the most beautiful guns in game, I do really like it :).

[Forcereborn]

Just throwing a random idea here: what if they made the Euphona work similarly to the Phage? I mean, the current primary fire could happen when zooming, and the current alternative fire could happen when not zooming.

Anyway, I would much prefer toggling over the current system, too.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Tbh I really love Euphona Pr atm, even my with my pure crit build, shotgun shot at point blank still hurts like a truck.

My only gripe is that firing mode isn't a toggle like Zarr or Stradavar which is more of a convinience/QoL thing. The rest is fine IMO.

[brewedjuice]

my only real problem with having to pick is that the primary fire is always the "pistol" mode. i kind if wish it did work more like zarr in that i could swap between those to modes on LMB, instead of having to spam click my mouse wheel to scattershot all the time, when thats generally the better build (though the crit build trashes stuff pretty well too. but status ftw) its a pretty minor problem for a sweet weapon. im pretty happy with it.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I think that alt fire could have a balance so it could do less damage up close and more from a distance. something like a 10-15 meters effective range.

A weapon released with Banshee that has a fire mode which requires kissing range? Would you do it with a banshee? 

Even a savage silence banshee build works better with melee at that distance. 

 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I haven't been interested in Euphone Prime anyway (whenever I get a piece of it, I go and sell it - people are snapping that up right now). Part of that is because, as several console users have already mentioned, alt-fire is a pain in the &#! on the console. There are way more commands than there are available buttons, and there's no convenient / intuitive place for alt-fire that doesn't screw up something else (in fact, if I recall, Alt-Fire isn't even mapped on the default configuration). 

So I neither own nor use any weapons that have alt-fire modes. They seem like they might be neat, but they're too impractical to use.

On the topic of this particular weapon, though - I can definitely see an issue. It does one mode well, or both modes...not so well. Doesn't sound super fun. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack
typo

[Kalvorax]

After having used it quite a bit today (now that Ive had time lol) 2 things NEED to be changed...

A) Get rid of the Damage Fall off on the Alt Fire. Why? Because it has a SHORT range anyways...there is NO need for damage fall off at such a low range..

B) Make the Alt Fire toggle...I grea tired of using the Alt fire due to always needing to press my middle mouse wheel...other guns that have an alta fire are a toggle...so why no this one? how hard would it be to change this...

oh and one more thing

C) Having to mod for EITHER Crit OR status for One gun that has two entirely different fire modes AND stats is ridiculous....we should be able to mod for both if you guys plan on going down this route with Alt Fire weapons as it will add more variety to combat.

ie. Kill a guy really close with the shotgun blast, then switch to the long range crit aspect to take out some one that is out of range of the shotgun blast (which is pathetically short). BUT because I modded for status over crit, its a very lack luster shot compared to the close range shotgun blast.

[painterman]

After using the euphona for a week, my thoughs on it are :

-Hive us the switch option betwen firemodes, its a bit painfull to use the alt fire otherwise for me.

-The 2-in-1 aproach(status king+crit monster) its a bit confusing, because unlike the zarr you cant master all ranges of convat at 100% efectivenes. There is the posibility of hybrid builds, were the most lost is at shotgun mode, but the way that bot firemodes works remembers me of equinox: build for one and the other migth work

-The utility space is non-existant: i would love to make a hybrid build, with a bit of crit, a bit of status and rolad+punchtru but the slots in the euphona are limited, the best compromise that i found was 3 mandatory mods+crit chance+2 dual elements but this way the damage takes a big hit and the status isnt enough.

Overall i think is a good weapon, but i find it dificult to choose it over, lets say, the akskileto(king at everytihng), brakk/mara detron(other secondary shotguns that should be buffed, specialy the mara in almost everything) vaykor marelock(status king + radial dmg+ also good dmg overall) staticor(perfect for saryn/good enough dmg).Where it most finds its trouble is in the status department, as the tisys still needs much less for the armor striping and you can focus on utility. Still is prety good, and i like it, but it has some mayor drawback that shouldnt come with its hefty mr 14 lock + 50 ammo maximun

[Bibliothekar]

55 minutes ago, painterman said:

staticor(perfect for saryn/good enough dmg).

Explain.

[Newnight]

3 hours ago, Bibliothekar said:

Explain.

Might mean the charge fire aoe.

[Bibliothekar]

17 minutes ago, Newnight said:

Might mean the charge fire aoe.

Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I still don't get why a radiation weapon should be good for Saryn.

[Kalvorax]

19 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I still don't get why a radiation weapon should be good for Saryn.

shouldnt derail the thread BUT...its not the status but the aoe explosions...which would pop all of saryns spores rather easily...while still being a good all around weapon.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On 3/4/2017 at 9:35 AM, Seinerweisen said:

DE would have to reduce the stats significantly. 

How does making a QoL adjustment warrant a stat nerf? 

That's like saying Excavation missions are balanced with the Extractor stats getting COVERED ALL THE TIME by Space Mom and the Operator whenever they pop up with a video transmission, and making any QoL adjustment for that issue (like moving the video transmissions elsewhere) would make it so that you can't see Extractor stats anymore or power cells filling Extractors would only account for a 10% fill rate instead of the usual 20%.

You don't make sense.

[painterman]

20 hours ago, Bibliothekar said:

Explain.

Its the same as concealed explosives hikou: you cause a aoe blast that pops all the spores, expanding further the desease, also the charge fire can pop a lot in a tight group

[Ruin_Uranor-er-nelde]

On 01/03/2017 at 9:52 AM, NightmareT12 said:

That's the worst argumenet I've ever seen in favor of not changing how the alt fire of a weapon is performed.

Like really. What's going to be so wrong from having both? You'll use one mode for some things, or one mode for the others. Kinda like Zarr. Like Stradavar.

I mean, you could use the same argument for the other weapons I emntioned had they released this way (because precedents) and it would have been the worst idea ever still.

It is em, a SECONDARY. Why would you main a SECONDARY rather than primaries? Except, for sorties, yes! Other than that, why the need? IMHO, Euphona Prime is absolutely fine the way it is. Wanna use Viral on primaries? build Euphona for alt fire for Corrosive and strip down those pesky bombards and gunners from their armor. While we are on the topic, yeah, i am actually agree with the mechanic suggested by some people. Make Euphona into Zarr's mechanic.

[Bibliothekar]

2 hours ago, Ruin_Uranor-er-nelde said:

It is em, a SECONDARY. Why would you main a SECONDARY rather than primaries?

Mesa? Also, with a weapon as strong as the Euphona: Why the f*** not?

Edited March 17, 2017 by Bibliothekar

[Ruin_Uranor-er-nelde]

15 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Mesa? Also, with a weapon as strong as the Euphona: Why the f*** not?

Although you are right about Mesa, will you really rely on a very little ammo reserve? Euphona Prime do has a low total ammo while it is 1-shot-1-kill, long survival mission will make you suffer. (Plus, my riven kinda kill my ammo reserves). Anyway, you won't be using Euphona if you are looking for mesa. Most of the time you will go with Akstiletto prime (at least that is what i have been seeing)

[Bibliothekar]

Well, okay, Euphona's max ammo is kinda crap. On the other hand *looks to Helios happily slurping in red boxes*. It depends on the mission type, but I had runs where I mostly used Euphona and only switched to my BratonP when I couldn't keep up with reloading.

[Ruin_Uranor-er-nelde]

All I need is 150 total ammo. Then, I will be FINE, DE. :)

[DoomFruit]

I'm actually OK with the weapon's design. The way I see it, I can build it for one particular usage (eg. long-range sniping for crits), then if something runs up in my face, I can mash the alt-fire as an "oh S#&$" button which allows me to react faster than swapping guns and doesn't require the enemy to get into melee range.

[MJ12]

Euphona Prime is a really weird weapon in my experience.

People have already mentioned the crit and status thing, but the alt-fire also changes the primary damage type, as if it was purpose-designed just to be as annoying as possible to make both fire modes effective.

I'd honestly want a slight increase in the crit chance of the alt-fire (to like, 15% or so, reduce its damage somewhat to keep average damage the same if you have to), a slight boost to the status chance of the alt fire (again, to make the alt-fire viable), and have both of them use the same physical damage type. That way modding the weapon for either mode isn't wasted on the other.

That said, its pretty huge damage + high crit chance means that it's a decent weapon just ignoring the alt-fire in its entirety so it's no big loss.