Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf

[Treebiter]

10 minutes ago, Equinaught said:

Nyx is my main frame and assimilate was my main build because it allowed me to help my team out more then just sitting AFK. This "FIX" is a massive nerf and is disrespectful to us players who love Nyx and use her correctly. And the fact that the forum moderators keep Erasing the multiple Nyx threads makes me suspiscious that they want to sweep this under the rug like they DIDNT just royally ruin Nyx.

I think the deletions were purely because the board was awash with them at one point. I suspect this thread remains as it's the longest-running discussion and has a response from Rebecca.

I'm confident that we'll get an official position on this from DE soon.

[Stokesy007]

Agreed, please unfix the fix.

[OmniXVII]

Another huge downside to this is when you try to revive allies using Assimilate.

When I am reviving allies using Assimilate they try to shoot at enemies while downed. My bubble absorbs all the damage and drains my energy like crazy.

THIS GIVES NYX PLAYERS INCENTIVE TO NOT REVIVE THEIR FALLEN ALLIES! :(

[MadHatter42]

Never wrote in the forums, but this is preposterous. A lot of players here, suggested better solutions but the fact is that Nyx is ALREADY one of the less used warframes in the game, her tier is ALREADY low, her 2 is basically useless, 1 is more like a distraction tool, but even so players were truly satisfied with the new way Absorb worked, sacrificing one mod slot.

Now my only frame, the one i could use happily for months waiting to be able to build another warframe, is just GONE.

It felt very lonely to play Nyx (i saw, maybe 2 Nyx in 2 months, playing everyday), but Nyx players were totally ok with that. Basically this "fix" means "drop Warframe at all" to me.
I play mainly on pugs, and this means:

1. Players trolling ("POP! No more bubble! LUL")
2. Players not knowing this thing and consuming my bubble while i revive someone.
3. Players that do know this stuff, but:
3a. I CAN'T ask for aoe abilites not to be cast.
3b. I CAN'T pretend that people stop using aoe weapones (i.e. Tonkor, Penta, Pox)
3c. I CAN'T expect that my team mates cease their fire when they encounter my bubble or to shoot around it.

(i won't even mention Miragulors undoing my Assimilate with just 2-3 shots or builds like that)

And remember, it doesn't take a FULL team of trollers, or Tonkor users team to ruin my games. 
In anyone of those pointed cases it takes ONE player in the team to destroy my gameplay and my fun.

This "fix" was unnecessary: Nyx wasn't considered OP, Nyx wasn't abused, Nyx was even not so much used at all but even so, Nyx players were ok with that.
This is not a "fix" at all. It stayed that way for months, and nobody talked about it. And i never saw or heard a Nyx players using Assimilate to nuke damage, it's ridicolous.
It's a nerf, let's call it with its proper name, an unwanted, unjustified, and most of all, UNJUST nerf.

I can only safely do pugs at low levels with this change. Nyx is my only, favourite and preferred frame.

I'm thinking about leaving the game if i can't play high level missions or just enjoy ONE warframe, and this is awful to think for me.

Just undo this stuff.
I would like to enjoy this game like i always did.
Please DE, i really appreciated your work until now.
I don't want to change my mind about that.
 

Edited March 13, 2017 by MadHatter42

[BitterAurora]

(Solution 1.) Make assimilate absorb reduce the amount of friendly fire energy drain to at least HALF of what it costs now so that griefers have a harder time popping our bubbles but it still does reduce our energy a bit.

(Solution 2.) Make us invulnerable to friendly fire entirely but increase the energy drain per second and have it drain no slower then 3 energy per second the way Mesa's Peacemaker drains at 3.75 energy per second at its slowest energy drain.

(Solution 3.) Make friendly fire bullets increase our energy as well as stored damage (healing bullets) but make the minimum drain per second go up to 5 energy per second.

(Solution 4.) Make us invincible to friendly fire damage again but make Assimilate Absorb work on a timer the way Chaos does instead of energy ammount and make it cost 50 energy to cast each time.
 

[flipeside777]

Agree, why fix it to become worse and useless.. so no one want nyx anymore? Just let nyx become she used to be. Its been long time nyx became like that. So why fix it now? :/ 

[ZeroOmegaZX]

Pretty sure I've never posted ever on the warframe forums (check my history DE) but as an avid player and patreon I wanted to state that I think this is a massive nerf to NYX.  I dont play her much but planned on it and was acquiring the gear and mods necessary to run her as a tank.  I think you should re-evaluate you're decision on this "fix".

[Waffles]

When I first played this game I always played Nyx until radial disarm Loki was a thing. I thought to myself whats the point Loki is like ten times better so I became a Loki main. When Nyx got assimilate I was really happy knowing I can use my favorite frame again. A year later now she's "nerfed." I can't even play this game without people draining up my energy or even play with my wife because she loves using Nova. So we're taking a break until something happens. :c

[OmniXVII]

34 minutes ago, ZeroOmegaZX said:

Pretty sure I've never posted ever on the warframe forums (check my history DE) but as an avid player and patreon I wanted to state that I think this is a massive nerf to NYX.  I dont play her much but planned on it and was acquiring the gear and mods necessary to run her as a tank.  I think you should re-evaluate you're decision on this "fix".

Thanks for taking the time to come and comment.

The more people like you that can make the thread bigger and more visible the more likely the change will be reverted.

[Treebiter]

2 hours ago, OmniXVII said:

Another huge downside to this is when you try to revive allies using Assimilate.

When I am reviving allies using Assimilate they try to shoot at enemies while downed. My bubble absorbs all the damage and drains my energy like crazy.

THIS GIVES NYX PLAYERS INCENTIVE TO NOT REVIVE THEIR FALLEN ALLIES! :(

Yes, this is actually becoming my biggest bugbear of the whole issue. Even when I get a team that's not full of Simulors or Novas, whenever I try to revive a team mate it's usually a suicide mission.

[Fluffysbeans]

Scroll down to the red text if you want it short.

The thing that's hurting me while reading through this thread is how many people are suggesting nerf-like changes to something that already was near the bottom of the usage charts. As a majority of Nyx players know, she's by no means the top of the tier list, and she is definitely not a dps pumping cannon of doom. But you know what she used to be? She used to be one of the most reliable frames to have as an ally, maybe not at the same scale as Trinity, but was still a very consistent sqaudmate. 

I'm going to make a point here, and I'm going to do it with our good ol' sand buddy, Inaros. Look at how everyone describes Inaros. He's strong, he's not a super hard dps frame, but he holds his own. He has some CC potential, he can open enemies to finishers, he heals allies and himself, and he has the only self-revive. He also, even in the hands of less experienced players, mainly doesn't die. A very strong players is effectively immortal until incredibly high levels.

So why is Inaros so dang immortal? He has a giant health pool, he has incredible armor, and his 4 adds even more armor, all piled on top of easy lifesteal. Surely he has poor energy economy, yes? Nope. He can use Rage easily, and he can regain energy faster than he can use it most of the time. Even if he happens to touch a null bubble or a mag proc, he's still tanky and probably will survive long enough to pull himself back to where he was pre-null within 10 seconds maximum.

Now what does this have to do with Nyx? Let's check out her dps and team strategy potential on everything but her 4 first. Her 1 is decently useful if you can grab an eximus, as long as there are no nullifiers to negate the skill. The AI is pretty trash, but you don't exactly need to aim an aoe buff. Too bad everyone wastes time trying to kill it, but that's a story for another day. Her 2 is booty unless you have an enemy stuck in a wall, but that's been useful to me twice in the hundreds of hours I've spent as Nyx. Her 3 is the shining star that everyone mentions, other than the current point of contention of course. It stops a majority of enemies for a couple seconds, and then might keep those enemies focused on each other instead of your team.

Comparison time. 

CC potential - Inaros will stop enemies with Pocket Sand (dessicate, whatever), Nyx might. Inaros entirely stops movement, Nyx only briefly stops, and allies can still be attacked. Inaros is short range in a cone, Nyx is a massive sphere. Though Inaros opens enemies to finishers, Nyx just has a chance to stagger.
Enemy control - Inaros's sand ally is his least used skill, and Nyx's is pretty ok. Nyx is the only enemy control frame that gets eximus powers, so that's cool.
Healing - Inaros can heal everyone (not impressively, but it's something), Nyx can't heal even herself unless her melee has Life Strike.

Tanking - Even ignoring abilities Inaros doesn't die unless he's under extreme circumstances, Nyx has a hard time staying alive in Neo fissures as soon as her 4 turns off. 
Nyx has one immortality skill, and, should she choose to give up a mod slot, one that reduces her movement speed to a crawl. She can't jump, run, stop sliding (I've rocketed off the side of too many extractions by activating 4 during an air slide), and vision is reduced unless you don't care about fashionframe and change your energy color to the invisi-black from the smoke set. It's one perk is that it stops 100% of all incoming damage, and even then, it drains a little more energy while absorbing than it does at base. When energy runs out, it turns off, and the end animation is decently long, although it does have knockdown in a small range. Nyx cannot expect to regain energy with rage, and either has to get lucky and find orbs, or use a restore, all before she is ripped apart by enemies. 
Inaros cannot entirely block damage, but he can regain heatlh, energy, and is capable of surviving should his maximum tank powers be stopped. All of this is done while moving at full speed.

Nyx is innately riskier than Inaros. Her perks are chance based, while Inaros player's can predict exactly what will happen each time they press a button. Now even her 4 (plus augment) is risky, as it probably will end and leave Nyx high and dry before she even knows what happened. Inaros does not have any ramping energy costs, and the recent change removed the ability for teammates to end Devour prematurely.

Ah, here it comes, my point. Took me a while to get here, not gonna lie.

Basically, what's happening within this thread, is most of the suggested changes (other than reverting Nyx's 4 augment to what it was) include either ramping energy costs, retaining some ally damage, or something that prevents the ability from being recast quickly. Inaros doesn't have any of those downsides, and although there are some vast differences, at a distilled level, he fills a similar role. Not huge impact, but nice to have, and typically doesn't need to be picked up. What I don't understand is why people want Nyx to have so many downsides that really don't fit the balance that already existed.

tl;dr (understandable, it got messy)

Nyx and Inaros (without the assimilate nerf) fill a similar role and have similar tank potential using different methods. Inaros has no ramping costs or other crazy downsides that people are suggesting should be added to absorb, and he has vastly better health and defense on top of it all. 

Everything was fine and balanced (nyx still was at a disadvantage if we're being honest here, but all the nyx players were fine with it) before the fix-train chugged into town.

[(XBOX)ChiefSeagull]

I agree. I sort of understand the need for an actual fix, but I honestly would've preferred her 4 to be left alone as it has been. I think it was a great ability with Assimilate that made Nyx a great frame to bring to a team. Now she's useless to me even though I very much enjoyed playing her. To me, the ability was balanced enough and didn't need this "fix." It is quite frustrating to have this frame reduced to useless after she was improved so much. Why nerf a perfectly fine frame? I don't get this one. 

[Icebreccer]

Posting just to show my support. I even bought the Graxx skin for my Nyx few months back, but now I don't even feel like using her that much...

[Gendalph]

There is a bunch of strong AoE abilities and guns that will suck your energy pool dry.

Also, let me remind you of "Mutagen Sample rain" that can't compare to normal resource drops for Detonite Injectors and Fieldron Samples.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Gendalph
typo

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just popping in to post a solution to this catastrophic conundrum wrapped in a enigma of a DE "fix" to a non issue. 

"I think the fix should be to just get rid of friendly fire for both Absorb and Assimilate. There are very little defensive, crowd-controlling abilities that have friendly-fire as a thing for it (e.g. you cannot shoot down another Frost's Globe), and Absorb/Assimilate should not be exceptions to that concept. I don't know of a single situation where I needed friendly fire to charge an Absorb for me, god forbid an Assimilate." @Roxxarus

Edited March 14, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[RealisticName]

@NyxPrime

[Roxxarus]

47 minutes ago, Gendalph said:

Also, let me remind you of "Mutagen Sample rain" that can't compare to normal resource drops for Detonite Injectors and Fieldron Samples.

Don't forget it's locked behind the arbitrary key system of the Derelict, and even if you have a key you'd still need a full, prepared-for-farming squad for anything remotely close to how much Detonite Injectors and Fieldron Samples drop.

I digress, though. I play Nyx every now and then, and the only reason I don't play her more is because her ability pool is pretty similar. Her 1, 3, and 4 are all forms of crowd-control, and her 2 is basically useless. Her augment for 1 would be useful if AI weren't so bad in itself, her 2 augment is also useless, her 3 augment is okay, and her 4 augment was all that she had to change up her play style a little more. It changed her stationary sponge-and-plunge to a somewhat-mobile tank. While her Absorb was good more as a panic button than an actual defensive maneuver (Why sit still when you can dodge away? In my opinion, it's a panic button, that's why), her Assimilate gave her not only mobility, but immunity from teammates large AoE attacks and possible troll attitude. As I said and @(Xbox One)FCastle74 quoted, there are very little (if any at all, I don't quite know) defensive abilities where teammates are allowed to friendly-fire. Why should Absorb and Assimilate be the exception for that? Once again, I've never found myself in a situation where I needed allies to charge up my stationary Absorb and, consequently, drain all of my energy EXCEPT for trolling.

TL;DR - Nyx's kit is a one-trick pony. Why does/should Absorb and Assimilate allow friendly-fire anyway?

[RedDirtTrooper]

5 hours ago, Roxxarus said:

TL;DR - Nyx's kit is a one-trick pony. Why does/should Absorb and Assimilate allow friendly-fire anyway?

I think it all goes back to the idea of it being a hybrid defensive/offensive ability, but with little to no consideration given to just how awful an offensive ability it is. An area nuke with the downside of needing to be charged up should do more damage in a larger radius than any other AoE damage skill currently in the game. It literally requires damage be applied directly to it, which is a bigger downside than Equinox's Maim. The problem is that the return on investment is horrible. If breaking absorb was the in game equivalent of setting off a nuke, then that would be one thing, but instead they are balancing against a facet of the skill that is so useless nobody builds for it.

[ChronoJXF]

Please undo that Assimilate fix on Nyx. It's terrible.

Edited March 14, 2017 by ChronoJXF

[(PSN)SageHeed]

I haven't used the fixed Assimilate yet, but I'm all for the fix. Invulnerability isn't any kind of fun, there has to be some trade-off.

Maybe there should be some damage/energy gating, but I don't know.

Honestly, I suspect this whole issue highlights the "Miragulor problem" more than any problems with Assimilate.

[KosmicKnight]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

I haven't used the fixed Assimilate yet, but I'm all for the fix. Invulnerability isn't any kind of fun, there has to be some trade-off.

Maybe there should be some damage/energy gating, but I don't know.

Honestly, I suspect this whole issue highlights the "Miragulor problem" more than any problems with Assimilate.

There was trade off, slow movement. When you experience this "fix" first hand, I am sure your tune will change dramatically. One or two shots of friendly fire, poof goes your energy pool. Zero. Its really bad.

Edited March 14, 2017 by KosmicKnight

[RedDirtTrooper]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

I haven't used the fixed Assimilate yet, but I'm all for the fix. Invulnerability isn't any kind of fun, there has to be some trade-off.

Maybe there should be some damage/energy gating, but I don't know.

Honestly, I suspect this whole issue highlights the "Miragulor problem" more than any problems with Assimilate.

No. Simulor will indeed eat all your energy and knock you out of Assimilate, but trying to pidgeon hole it as part of the overblown Simulor + Mirage fight is absolutely ridiculous. You know what else will eat all your energy and knock you out of Assimilate? Just about everything. Molecular Primed enemies, Spored enemies, a single Rhino Stomp, Tonkor explosions, actually just make that explosive weapons of any kind. The only AoE damage effect that I can think of that you might be safe around is Ember's ultimate, because of how it targets things rather than just radiating damage in all directions. Just about any other frame used for damage can pretty much effortlessly and unintentionally empty your entire energy pool and knock you out of assimilate in seconds.

As for the whole Invulnerability isn't fun thing, that's just you. Rhino, Nheza, and Wukong all say hi. It already had a trade-off, snail like movement and the higher level enemies the more damage you took and the less time it lasted. Now it's just flat out not worth using in most cases as it will be dropped almost instantly for negligible damage at the cost of your entire energy reserve, and if you think that's an improvement then I don't know what to say to you.

Edited March 14, 2017 by RedDirtTrooper

[MadHatter42]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

I haven't used the fixed Assimilate yet, but I'm all for the fix. Invulnerability isn't any kind of fun, there has to be some trade-off.

Maybe there should be some damage/energy gating, but I don't know.

Honestly, I suspect this whole issue highlights the "Miragulor problem" more than any problems with Assimilate.

Last night two Tonkor grenades drained me about 200 energy, a guy steps in my shield firing god knows what and my energy drops to 23: does this sounds even NORMAL to you? -.-

Seriously, you and DE need some playtest here to see how awful it is.

Just split the functionality

Absorb = nuking (and it is bad for doing damage, yet Nyx players didn't care)

Assimilate = defensive only with no damage returning to enemies (slow moving is not the only downside here: you can find yourself insta-downed if its casted with bad timing, you can find yourself always behind your team running around while you get out of the bubble, nullifiers,parasitic and high damage mobs are painful, aiming is harder due to the light effect around you. And most of all, this is the only reliable defensive measure for Nyx, it's already squishy as hell, if Assimilate becomes useless what do we have left to stay alive?)

[Yuni_Hermit]

On 3/10/2017 at 11:15 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Luckily I hadn't finished the Sortie yet and there is a Defense mission up - this sets the field for one of my favourite Nyx Assimilate strategies. Hopping in a Defense Shotgun-Only Sortie with my 'Terminator Nyx' to protect the Ally after this change was the perfect testing ground for me - especially in Public matchmaking where you're never sure what others will bring to the table.

I'm conflicted about what I found - I expected to see the sky falling, especially with a full Public team with Shotguns! With my Assimilate build, I was still able to maintain Godmode Assimilate for each wave, stopping in between to hustle for drops and stock up on energy. I only removed my '4' in combat once to run to a fallen Squad mate to quickly reactivate it.

When the final Wave hit things got a little hairy - as they should - and I had to adapt with quick movements and Energy restock, only losing my Absorb once.

Is more testing necessary? Absolutely - that goes for everyone in this thread who has claimed we've ruined something that they themselves have not tried out.

It has been a while since Nyx has gone under any serious discussion so we'll see how far we can open this door based on the constructive feedback that takes place.

An excuse to play even more Nyx though? Sign me up.


 

You don't get trolled, Rebecca. You're a celebrity when you're in mission. Your name is purple. People are excited to impress you, and fight at their very best.

I'm just some random Nyx with a Kuria icon. People don't care if I have to spend 30 Large Energy Pads trying to protect the target for just 5 waves... they want a giggle by draining my energy...

I do that exact same scenario, and there's a 75% chance one of my squadmates empties two magazines into my Absorb bubble JUST to drain my energy, not to actually make an enemy-killing explosion. The problem is not the enemies draining energy, or allies doing by accident, it's playful or trollish squad mates doing it on purpose. How do I know it's on purpose? Because every time I restore my energy, they do it again... even if I'm nowhere near enemies to kill with the explosion... until I leave the mission and find a different squad.

You guys made it so that people can't rad proc themselves specifically to prevent friendly-fire trolling. You made rad proc duration 4 seconds on Tenno to give people no time to hunt down an ally to murder while it lasts. But friendly fire is -always on- for Nyx's assimilate/absorb.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Yuni_Hermit
Phrasing.

[kyori]

On 3/11/2017 at 0:15 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

@[DE]Rebecca A suggestion... try using IGN that does not state it is [DE]Rebecca or any that the player base knew you for, then play for awhile. Only then you can truly know the REAL situation.