Set Backs That Sting (Inaros and Other Frames VS. Corpus).

[KX297]

So, Inaros is my most played frame. He is my go to for tough mission were I need some beef to back my team. 

Issue I currently have? I avoid the Corpus like the friggin plague when playing him. 

My problem is one that really should have already been addressed, and I'm surprised it is still a thing.

Why DE, does Inaros lose ALL of his armor from his ultimate IMMEDIATELY upon coming in contact with a Nullifier? 

Considering the way his ultimate works, and the effort a player puts into getting it up without dying, healing there health back, etc, doesn't it just seem a little ridiculous for it to be immediately removed by some random enemy walking by? 

Now, I've been pretty firm in my belief that Nullifiers should be altered and that DE should take there time and get it right, but can we PLEASE do something about this soon-ish? 

Honestly, it should be similar to Nidus and his stacks. I think the way you guys went about Nidus was fair, and it seems okay in the long run.

Upon entering/coming in contact with a bubble, Inaros should lose, say, 25% of the ultimate he has amassed, and begin to lose more the longer he remains in the bubble, with the amount lost increasing over time. Him just losing all of it is a real punch in the gut in endless mission when you consider how many Nullifiers spawn as the mission goes on. That's an issue with Nullifer spawn rate as well, which I believe should also be looked into, but that's for a different time and place.

Eventually, for me, it gets to the point where I just stop trying to keep his ultimate up in Corpus missions because it just becomes to touch and go at higher levels. Unfortunately, with the way Nullifers currently work and their infernal spawn rates, I could end up just wasting time standing there and putting my Scarab Armor up. 

Now this isn't just an issue with Inaros. In general, a lot of out frames get hurt pretty badly by Nullifiers. I'm just most familiar with the sting it brings to Inaros. 

I know that I still despise playing Corpus missions with my Chroma for a similar reason. How about making it to where a Nullifier removes a percentage of the current remaining duration of any active powers upon coming in contact with the Warframe, and then begins to cause the timer to speed up? Is that so much to ask for? 

Like, it would make the Nullifiers maintain their purpose, but not just royally smash our face in when we get near them. Corpus have Bursas, the mobile weapons of mass destruction known as Corpus Techs, those weird Disruptor guys with the Lectas, etc, so they really don't need the Nullifer to be as godly as he is when it comes to dealing with Tenno. 

Personally, I think Nullifers are still one of the most irritating additions to Warframe. I like challenge, but I'd also like that challenge to be fun. 

I really think Nullifiers need an overhaul, and the addition of the weak-point atop the bubble to aid single high damage weapons is a good start. I think something along the lines of these changes mentioned here should be the next thing looked into. I personally will be avoiding using Inaros on Corpus missions as much as possible, because while he is the frame I enjoy playing the most, those Nullifiers just hurt too much. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by KX297

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

YES! FINALLY!

So glad you started this thread. Please bring up the gimp to Nidus regarding corpus/corrupted from the nerf they gave him. A mere few seconds in a bubble and all stacks are gone... not to mention all abilities cast. All gone and you're dead, (snaps fingers) like that.

[CherryPauper]

It should just have a slow drain like Nidus' stacks have upon entering a bubble. Same with other frames' abilities like Frost's globe. It shouldn't just pop when it comes into contact with a nully.

Edited March 18, 2017 by CherryPauper

[KX297]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

YES! FINALLY!

So glad you started this thread. Please bring up the gimp to Nidus regarding corpus/corrupted from the nerf they gave him. A mere few seconds in a bubble and all stacks are gone... not to mention all abilities cast. All gone and you're dead, (snaps fingers) like that.

Ya, I play Nidus in endless mission a lot because of how powerful he is (probably a little too powerful honestly), and he is my current go to frame for endless Corpus missions. His stack loss from Nullifiers is not crazy, but it is for sure noticeable. 

With Inaros though, I run into some serious issues. 

Like, a few Nullifiers here and there is no big deal. Easy to deal with and avoid. 

But when there are a few in a SINGLE room... then things get a rough real fast. 

You know how it goes;

The Nullifier touches you, the Tech in his bubble looks at you, and your life flashes before your eyes as you rapidly back-flip away in search of some cover to get your armor back up. 

I love Inaros. He is by far my favorite Warframe and will probably always be, but man do the Corpus really sucker punch him when it comes to his ultimate versus Nullifier bubbles. 

[KX297]

1 minute ago, CherryPauper said:

It should just have a slow drain like Nidus' stacks have upon entering a bubble. Same with other frames' abilities like Frost's globe. It shouldn't just pop when it comes into contact with a nully.

Right? 

I can't see DE making it just a drain though. They would probably do something similar to what I mentioned, where contact removes like 25% of it, then begins to drain it. 

But honestly, compared to what we have now, I would welcome that with open arms and thank them for it. 

Ya, Frost kinda takes a heavy hit when it come to his bubbles as well. Like, you stack up three or so only for a Nullifier to touch it and ruin all of it. 

[KX297]

I really hope that DE looks into this though. The way Nullifiers currently work is just ridiculous to me. Like, i'm really not sure who thought this was a good idea lol.

It just really irritates me that Inaros takes such a heavy hit against these guys. Compared to other factions, these are definitely the hardest to fight in endless missions.  

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

37 minutes ago, KX297 said:

Ya, I play Nidus in endless mission a lot because of how powerful he is (probably a little too powerful honestly), and he is my current go to frame for endless Corpus missions. His stack loss from Nullifiers is not crazy, but it is for sure noticeable. 

I don't know how you play or what build you use, but I want to copy it. Any high level corpus missions I go to (especially fissures) there are far too many nullies to even gain stacks (though that is not the real problem). If I wasn't running Naramon, it would be impossible to stand up. This is compounded by tilesets where nullies (and regular enemies) spawn on different levels (ie Io Jupiter) and just drop on top of you (fall out of the sky), seemingly out of no where. I can have a full stack count and 3-5 seconds in a bubble and at least (at least!) half are gone (that's 50 stacks!) and his stack loss stacks for each second he remains in the bubble (which is utterly ridiculous). Stack loss is bad enough, but "stacking" stack loss is as I said, "worthy of ridicule." I also forgot to mention the loss counter keeps going after you leave the bubble because of the stacking stack loss, which is also horse doodoo.

Honestly, "noticeable" is a vast understatement.

37 minutes ago, KX297 said:

You know how it goes;

The Nullifier touches you, the Tech in his bubble looks at you, and your life flashes before your eyes as you rapidly back-flip away in search of some cover to get your armor back up.  

This made me laugh!

Edited March 18, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[KX297]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

I don't know how you play or what build you use, but I want to copy it. Any high level corpus missions I go to (especially fissures) there are far too many nullies to even gain stacks (though that is not the real problem). If I wasn't running Naramon, it would be impossible to stand up. This is compounded by tilesets where nullies (and regular enemies) spawn on different levels (ie Io Jupiter) and just drop on top of you (fall out of the sky), seemingly out of no where. I can have a full stack count and 3-5 seconds in a bubble and at least (at least!) half are gone (that's 50 stacks!) and his stack loss stacks for each second he remains in the bubble (which is utterly ridiculous). Stack loss is bad enough, but "stacking" stack loss is as I said, "worthy of ridicule."

Honestly, "noticeable" is a vast understatement.

This made me laugh!

My build is six forma and follows as such;

Rejuvenation and Coaction Drift, because "lol Health Rejen" 

Blind Rage / Transient Fortitude / Stretch / Vitality / Steel Fiber / Primed Continuity / Rage / Primed Flow 

I usually run the Nano-Applicator Kohm build to deal with all the Nullifier bubbles under the sun, and I tend to camp hallways with this build, so I don't worry to much about being flanked by the jerkwads. 

I don't usually have too much trouble, but I tend to usually duo corpus survivals with a Clanmate (Plays Nekros, don't have to worry about life support).

And ya, noticeable may have been poor wording lol.

 

Inaros VS Nullifiers is almost panic inducing though...

[KX297]

Another build that would greatly benefit from a change similar to this would be Endless Warcry Valkyr.

It makes me so mad to get up to like 40 odd something seconds on the ability and be maintain it, only to have a Nullifier touch it and reset the whole dam things >_>

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

On 3/18/2017 at 2:45 PM, KX297 said:

My build is six forma and follows as such;

Rejuvenation and Coaction Drift, because "lol Health Rejen" 

Blind Rage / Transient Fortitude / Stretch / Vitality / Steel Fiber / Primed Continuity / Rage / Primed Flow 

I usually run the Nano-Applicator Kohm build to deal with all the Nullifier bubbles under the sun, and I tend to camp hallways with this build, so I don't worry to much about being flanked by the jerkwads. 

I don't usually have too much trouble, but I tend to usually duo corpus survivals with a Clanmate (Plays Nekros, don't have to worry about life support).

And ya, noticeable may have been poor wording lol.

 

Inaros VS Nullifiers is almost panic inducing though...

I use the Distant Nidus/Khom/Vaykor Sydon build, too (which seems like what you're running). Coaction Drift is an interesting addition, though. Will look into that.

I will admit, Inaros is like hamster in a viper pit when it comes to nullies... they gonna get ya, just a matter of time. But Nidus is not OP, just very well designed. His synergy is perfect and all compliments his theme. Probably the best design by DE to date.

Edited March 23, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[KX297]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

I use the Distant Nidus/Khom/Vaykor Sydon build, too (which seems like what you're running). Coaction Drift is an interesting addition, though. Will look into that.

I will admit, Inaros is like hamster in a viper pit when it comes to nullies... they gonna get ya, just a matter of time.

Ya, I put Coaction Drift on for fun. It doesn't REALLY do a lot, but there aren't many other exilus mods that I like. 

Cunning Drift is really probably a better option, but eh. Health regeneration is cool ( ;

 

Edit; 

Power Drift is good too, but I just feel that the Knockdown recovery/Resist from mods is a little redundant since his Link (for me at least) is almost always up and stops knockdowns and shizz.

Edited March 18, 2017 by KX297

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I am not sure if Nullifier will toned down until Focus is readjusted.

Currently it seems people just choose Naramon Shadowstep to side-grades enemy Lethality issues.

I feel if Focus gets disabled like how Solar Rails are under Armistice: there would be a larger flood gate of players complaint about Nullifiers.

Even with Inaros Raw 7k+ Effective health pool it doesn't seem like much protection against Corpus Techs and/or Sapping Osprey at Sortie level.

I can only imagine Corpus NM Trial with Nullifier Sapping Osprey and what grief that will bring.

[Chroia]

Peaceful Provocation, meet Scrambus/Comba / leaping Nullifier

-----

49 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Even with Inaros Raw 7k+ Effective health pool it doesn't seem like much protection against Corpus Techs and/or Sapping Osprey

You can thank Damage 2.0 for double-dipping.
+% damage, -% armor = puncture and radiation do a lot of damage vs player armor.

[Fallen_Echo]

What can a nullfier currently do:

Create a shield to defend his allies

Reflect and stop in tracks warframe powers (projectile or not)

Reflect projectile based weapons

Can escape nyx's mindcontrol

His shield can penetrate throught walls

His shield doesnt merge with other shields, it can create overlaps for extra defense

Spawns almost as fast as common enemies

 

Now if this was a frame or a new weapon gimmick, people would cry all over the forums that it needs a nerf.

They need to spawn less, have less range, should not reflect projectile weapons and only do temporal nullfying.

[xPhantomStranga]

Well, Lots and lots of frames lose to nullifiers... unless they are going to take them out of the game, no frames should get special treatment against them.

[KX297]

40 minutes ago, xPhantomStranga said:

Well, Lots and lots of frames lose to nullifiers... unless they are going to take them out of the game, no frames should get special treatment against them.

I mean, I did mention this.

I said what should probably be done for duration based ability frames, and stated that Inaros was who I was simply most familiar with.

Edited March 19, 2017 by KX297

[Rolunde]

I'd love to see the persistent buff vs nullifier interaction get updated to be more like what they did with Nidus at the very least. 

I don't think that the decay at its current rate is wonderful but it's a Hek of a lot better than the instant removal the other frames suffer.

Yesterday one of my friends and I ran a Nightmare Mission vs Corpus. He's leveling Saryn so he brought her (kind of a bad idea but the mission wasn't very high level either so...) and I brought Inaros.

For most of the mission, I avoided entering null-bubbles to not get his nice armor buff stripped. But as we went along there were more and more (and more) Nullifiers.

Now Saryn could be an OK frame to take on the job of "go into the bubble and kill the nullifier" except she was getting dropped a lot so was generally staying back to let Inaros take most of the "agro" there.

We finally hit a room with, I am not even kidding, 4 Nullifiers all stacked with each other. So much bubble hate right there.

So I finally just said screw it and dove into all those bubbles to melee them down. 

I didn't bother to re-buff after that because why even bother when there will just be more Nullifiers ahead. =p

You can see crazy high numbers of nullifiers in a Void Fissure Mission too since there will be the ones on the map plus the ones that spawn out of fissures. 

So many bubbles coming from so many directions in a Mobile Defense, I think it's given me Warframe PTSD!  /twitches at the thought of it all/

Here's hoping that at the very least DE will actually put in the version of Nullifiers with the detached bubble generator for us to shoot that they showed off in the Dev-Stream a while back.

Sooner would be better than Later...

[Somb3rBivalve]

you can also add atlas to the list of warframes that are annoying to use against nullifiers. The rumblers just run into the bubble and get insta-killed. There's literally NO counter-play, and it makes his ult worthless against corpus

[KX297]

1 hour ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

you can also add atlas to the list of warframes that are annoying to use against nullifiers. The rumblers just run into the bubble and get insta-killed. There's literally NO counter-play, and it makes his ult worthless against corpus

Ya, like, that's just not cool.

This really needs to be looked into.

11 hours ago, Rolunde said:

I'd love to see the persistent buff vs nullifier interaction get updated to be more like what they did with Nidus at the very least. 

I don't think that the decay at its current rate is wonderful but it's a Hek of a lot better than the instant removal the other frames suffer.

Yesterday one of my friends and I ran a Nightmare Mission vs Corpus. He's leveling Saryn so he brought her (kind of a bad idea but the mission wasn't very high level either so...) and I brought Inaros.

For most of the mission, I avoided entering null-bubbles to not get his nice armor buff stripped. But as we went along there were more and more (and more) Nullifiers.

Now Saryn could be an OK frame to take on the job of "go into the bubble and kill the nullifier" except she was getting dropped a lot so was generally staying back to let Inaros take most of the "agro" there.

We finally hit a room with, I am not even kidding, 4 Nullifiers all stacked with each other. So much bubble hate right there.

So I finally just said screw it and dove into all those bubbles to melee them down. 

I didn't bother to re-buff after that because why even bother when there will just be more Nullifiers ahead. =p

You can see crazy high numbers of nullifiers in a Void Fissure Mission too since there will be the ones on the map plus the ones that spawn out of fissures. 

So many bubbles coming from so many directions in a Mobile Defense, I think it's given me Warframe PTSD!  /twitches at the thought of it all/

Here's hoping that at the very least DE will actually put in the version of Nullifiers with the detached bubble generator for us to shoot that they showed off in the Dev-Stream a while back.

Sooner would be better than Later...

Ya, as my play time with Inaros goes up, so does my hatred for Corpus.

Hope DE at least does SOMETHING about this.

[m0b1us1]

Another Inaros main here. I actually don't have a problem against corpus.I just make sure to bring either a melee weapon with decent reach (galatine p, lesion, orthos p, etc) or a gun that has a high rate of fire and either a a decent mag size or reload speed. In short, just bring askiletto p. Nully in your way? Just rip the shields down and pop them.

However, I will say out of all the frames that are hurt by nullies, Inaros has to worry the least. Valkyr using her hysteria can literally one shot herself, nova's 4 is stopped instantly and doesn't even affect targets in the bubble, tons of frames suffer far more. Inaros? You lose the armor buff, but you gain back all the hp you gave up to get it. It can act as an emergency heal in dire situations. Just make sure to bring at least 1 weapon that is good at tearing down bubbles. Don't go into a high level corpus mission with a bow, lex p, and venka p if you are having trouble with nullies. This goes for every frame not just Inaros. It helps to cover a wide range of utility with your weapons in general.

Also, arcane grace. See a nullie, jump out and focus it down while arcane grace keeps you alive. Once you get 20 arcane graces, there really isn't much to worry about.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

use cleavers 

melee all the corpus including the nullifies  

/thred

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

[KX297]

7 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

Another Inaros main here. I actually don't have a problem against corpus.I just make sure to bring either a melee weapon with decent reach (galatine p, lesion, orthos p, etc) or a gun that has a high rate of fire and either a a decent mag size or reload speed. In short, just bring askiletto p. Nully in your way? Just rip the shields down and pop them.

However, I will say out of all the frames that are hurt by nullies, Inaros has to worry the least. Valkyr using her hysteria can literally one shot herself, nova's 4 is stopped instantly and doesn't even affect targets in the bubble, tons of frames suffer far more. Inaros? You lose the armor buff, but you gain back all the hp you gave up to get it. It can act as an emergency heal in dire situations. Just make sure to bring at least 1 weapon that is good at tearing down bubbles. Don't go into a high level corpus mission with a bow, lex p, and venka p if you are having trouble with nullies. This goes for every frame not just Inaros. It helps to cover a wide range of utility with your weapons in general.

Also, arcane grace. See a nullie, jump out and focus it down while arcane grace keeps you alive. Once you get 20 arcane graces, there really isn't much to worry about.

I can't really agree with this.

Inaros's armor buff provides a ton of EHP.

Him losing it really hurts at higher level, and it almost is never as simple as just putting it back up. Nullifier spawn rates get so high that it becomes hard to maintain it. I almost always use my Akstillito Prime for Corpus missons, and still run into trouble popping bubbles becuase of the massive amount that start spawning. 

Inaros's ultimate becomes near useless for me past a certain time in Corpus missons becuase keeping it up becomes more risk than reward. 

I don't really care about Valkyr's Hysteria, as I almost never use it anymore with the way it works now. I've adapted to use other abilities to survive. What hurts more is Warcry... sucks to build up a solid time and then lose it all and have to restart. But restarting is as easy as casting the ability. I don't have to stop moving, drain health, be vunerable, not fight back, and then regain said health, possibly to only lose it again shortly.

Nova is fine for me in Corpus, and I can go into the bubble with out worrying too much, as long as I'm quick. I can cast M Prime whenever I want, and it still affects those outside of the bubble. I lose nothing for going into it.

Maybe it's becuase I play solo a lot, but having to stop moving, stop dealing damage, drain my own health, and then regain my health every time a Nullifier walks by becomes far too touch and go when Corpus get into higher levels.

Inaros is for sure not the frame who has to worry the least, and yes, other frames are heavily affected by Nullifiers, some more so than Inaros, but I believe the examples you gave don't illustrate that point well.

(And a full set of Grace? Ya, I'll get right on that when we get a raid that can be done solo or as a duo. Till then, I'll probably never see one).

[Reifnir]

Maxed Vitality, Steel Fiber, Rage and a Life Strike weapon with good reach. This should keep you healthy through any Sortie, simply because you have pretty much unlimited energy for channeling and every melee hit restores absurd amounts of HP. Don't even bother with Scarab Armor on Corpus maps, just charge inside the bubbles and chop Nullifiers to pieces. Unless you're standing still in a dozen overlapping Sapping Osprey fields or spamming emotes in front of a Corpus Tech death squad you are extremely unlikely to die. 

And going above Sortie level means Naramon (or other forms of stealth) anyway, because no amount armor achievable by players can withstand the damage of enemies when their levels start approaching four digits. 

[dan.io.wal]

I want this change for Nezha too. My build utilizes neither Vitality nor Redirection, instead focusing on keeping warding halo and firewalker on, while spamming divine spears. I literally have to bring either an auto weapon (soma, akstilletos, furis) or something like the sonicor to avoid dying instantly. 

[KX297]

58 minutes ago, danthedapper said:

I want this change for Nezha too. My build utilizes neither Vitality nor Redirection, instead focusing on keeping warding halo and firewalker on, while spamming divine spears. I literally have to bring either an auto weapon (soma, akstilletos, furis) or something like the sonicor to avoid dying instantly. 

Ya, Nehza and Rhino would both benifit heavily from a change like the one mentioned.

Again, hopefully DE considers it in the future. Only time will tell.

Edited March 20, 2017 by KX297