[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Railgun]

Just now, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

I could have sworn that he could walk into nullifiers, not going to name names but a certain popular youtuber displayed it, and it's happened several time for me, am i mistaken? is he not supposed to be able to? or should he be able to?

 

I don't believe he's supposed to according to game mechanics, thought it doesn't make sense on why he couldn't. Him entering the rift should be an innate skill to the frame and nullifiers should not be able to cancel that out.

[Chewarette]

Because nobody here plays Warframe to get this ridiculous "lumberjack simulator 2017" where you just chop down trees with your melee weapons.

And that's why I've created a special build on my Twin Grakata with max reload speed and fire rate just to destroy Stasis. That's plain happiness for the moment, I love to see Limbos dying like nothing

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

Just now, SergeantSunshine said:

I don't believe he's supposed to according to game mechanics, thought it doesn't make sense on why he couldn't. Him entering the rift should be an innate skill to the frame and nullifiers should not be able to cancel that out.

not to mention if he can't even interact with the enemy why should they be able to interact with him? it's stupid. real nice update, just a broken limbo corpse for console to play with *Have fun kids*

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Just now, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

I could have sworn that he could walk into nullifiers, not going to name names but a certain popular youtuber displayed it, and it's happened several time for me, am i mistaken? is he not supposed to be able to? or should he be able to?

 

He shouldn't be able to, considering the fact that entering the rift is part of a "power" as to say.
Even if said power is now part of his passive, his ability to switch through the rift should still be affected by whatever the nullifier bubble is made of.

Nullifiers are just buggy as of recently.

 

1 minute ago, SergeantSunshine said:

I don't believe he's supposed to according to game mechanics, thought it doesn't make sense on why he couldn't. Him entering the rift should be an innate skill to the frame and nullifiers should not be able to cancel that out.

The skill and knowledge of the rift is something that only limbo knows, however his powers are what lets him change plane, and those powers are affected by nullifiers.

[Yzjdriel]

I've got no clue what goes on on consoles, but as far as PC Limbo goes, he works like this:

• enters Rift
• goes AFK forever
• is fine

Unless you run into a Nullifier, of course.

Nullifiers will cancel all active powers and if they run past you with bubble up they will knock you out of the Rift as well - though whether or not that's a holdover from when Rift Walk was a skill I don't know.

 

As to Rift Surge, you cast it on an enemy that's in the Rift, and that enemy and all enemies in range that are also in the Rift will be charged.  If a charged enemy leaves the Rift, their charge will go off, instantly pulling them and all nearby enemies back into the Rift.  If a charged enemy is killed, it will transfer its charge to the nearest enemy within range, and if that enemy isn't in the Rift, they'll be pulled in.

[-CM-NineFingers]

1 minute ago, LazyKnight said:

I have limbo and  I know how limbo works. He is not complex or even take a working brain to use, and implying as much is a joke. I do not enjoy having a good limbo player that knows what their doing anymore than that idiot limbo that caused a mission fail.

Give me another warframe as hard to use right and I'll believe you. Give me a warframe that doesn't deserve that sentence at least.

Quote

Calling me shortsighted? I know how his tool set works, i know how his cc works since he was added to the game.

News flash, his CC changed drastically with the rework, mainly it was BORN with the rework. Learn him again, not that difficult.

Quote

I think it's beyond the pale that people accept enjoy having that type of CC inflicted on a mission.

"CC inflicted" I had to stop here just because it made me laugh. On high level content CC is the only thing keeping you alive. Vauban can make lots of enemies unable to hit you, but only Limbo can make them vulnerable and protect you at the same time. Plus, Frost SG falls hard at high level content, while Limbo is time based and thus a better protection overall.

It's okay if you don't like it, but that is missinformation, based on emotions and not logic at all, with 0 data taken into acount and based entirely on hatred.

You only insulted a frame, their users and gave 0 coherent arguments apart from the "He's annoying hurr durr". Hate is not gonna make a frame be better, just makes you more short sighted.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Personally, "lock down everything and be permanently invulnerable" is kinda boring. Effective, but boring.

Plus, given his apparently-by-design ability to interfere with the gameplay experience of other players means that as a courtesy he should be played strictly solo, and I don't want to play solo. So Limbo is backbenched for now, until they can actually figure out what to do with him. 

[-CM-NineFingers]

9 minutes ago, ColdWarFish said:

While true, that's not much consolation for frames that rely mainly on buffing their weapons with their powers instead of dealing direct damage with them (Chroma and Rhino come to mind).

And while ones content with Limbos kit might very well be down to personal preference/opinion, I would really enjoy a Limbo that is less... let's call it intrusive, to the play of their own team.

Anyway: I, for one, am quite happy that "4 spam" Limbo is not a thing anymore. That constanct cataclysm opening/collapsing was unbearably annoying, even for me. And I am someone who generelly doesn't take/took offense in embers, miragulors, etc.

I'm happy too, believe me. Nuke is not a thing Limbo should do. And personally would prefer to make allies do reduced damage across dimensions, at least, to give all frames the opportunity to deal damage to all enemies. Plus making enemies in stasis receive more damage from melee could make it perfectly useable for everyone.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

 

3 minutes ago, Yzjdriel said:

I've got no clue what goes on on consoles, but as far as PC Limbo goes, he works like this:

• enters Rift
• goes AFK forever
• is fine

Unless you run into

Or, if you like spy missions, Press Roll to Win -- enter the rift, and then amble through the mission without a concern. Zero-effort spy, no need to even kill anything.

Edited April 20, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

3 minutes ago, Yzjdriel said:

I've got no clue what goes on on consoles, but as far as PC Limbo goes, he works like this:

• enters Rift
• goes AFK forever
• is fine

Unless you run into a Nullifier, of course.

Nullifiers will cancel all active powers and if they run past you with bubble up they will knock you out of the Rift as well - though whether or not that's a holdover from when Rift Walk was a skill I don't know.

 

As to Rift Surge, you cast it on an enemy that's in the Rift, and that enemy and all enemies in range that are also in the Rift will be charged.  If a charged enemy leaves the Rift, their charge will go off, instantly pulling them and all nearby enemies back into the Rift.  If a charged enemy is killed, it will transfer its charge to the nearest enemy within range, and if that enemy isn't in the Rift, they'll be pulled in.

The only frame who's passive gets nullified, lol seems fair, when that is his form of survivability. And the only frame that can't use his abilities through the rift! GG backwards limbo, as s  up as usual

Edited April 20, 2017 by (XB1)CarpeNoctem365

[Yzjdriel]

Just now, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

The only frame who's passive gets nullified, lol seems fair, when that is his form of survivability. And the only frame that can't use his abilities through the rift! GG backwards limbo, &#! up as usual

I'm not sure what you mean about not using his abilities through the rift, since 2, 3, and 4 function the exact same way no matter where you are (3 can only be cast on things that are in the Rift, but you don't have to be) and Banish does exactly that - Banishes enemies from Limbo's current plane.

Also, neither Hysteria nor Artemis Bow will affect enemies on the other plane.

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

He shouldn't be able to, considering the fact that entering the rift is part of a "power" as to say.
Even if said power is now part of his passive, his ability to switch through the rift should still be affected by whatever the nullifier bubble is made of.

Nullifiers are just buggy as of recently.

 

The skill and knowledge of the rift is something that only limbo knows, however his powers are what lets him change plane, and those powers are affected by nullifiers.

just gonna pull that one out of limbo's sphincter, eh? 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I thought banish only worked from the "physical" plane to the rift. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

1 minute ago, Yzjdriel said:

Also, neither Hysteria nor Artemis Bow will affect enemies on the other plane.

So then it should be fixed, right? you have the "because mine's broken yours should be too" mentality

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I thought banish only worked from the "physical" plane to the rift. 

you have to be on the same plane, rift "master" extraordonaire 

[-Temp0-]

19 minutes ago, SWAT_Omega said:

I would say limbo has the highest Skill floor out of all warframes, it does ALOT of things.

Limbo is nothing secial and neither is any other warframe. Most people just aren't willing to play and forma frames like Limbo, Equinox, Chroma, Mesa ect because most of them are glass canons and requires either several formas or many expensive mods. In a game where you have 20+ frames anyway and any mission except for the most hardcore ones can be done with pretty much any frame, especially in a group even random one.

There's no real reason to work on so many frames at once unless you already own everything and just bored or like particular warframe.

Quote

 Zero-effort spy, no need to even kill anything.

You don't need to kill anyone in spy either way.

Edited April 20, 2017 by -Temp0-

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Ah, okay. My mistake. 

[LazyKnight]

36 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

News flash, his CC changed drastically with the rework, mainly it was BORN with the rework. Learn him again, not that difficult.

Old news, if you call that drastic, I think you have a bar set too low.

Do you think I haven't tried limbo? Old Limbo and New LImbo, I have tried both limbos and I know how to play as the character. 

36 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

"CC inflicted" I had to stop here just because it made me laugh. 

CC that affects other players is different from that which targets the Ai. If you can not tell the difference between limbo and Vauban then maybe there is something wrong.

36 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

It's okay if you don't like it, but that is missinformation, based on emotions and not logic at all, with 0 data taken into acount and based entirely on hatred.

What did I post that is misinformation? Limbo affects and limits my game and that's a logical conclusion. The emotion I have is not liking the the limitations of said intrusion, and is beyond the point.

What Data? How his power works?

36 minutes ago, -CM-Limbo said:

You only insulted a frame, their users and gave 0 coherent arguments apart from the "He's annoying hurr durr". Hate is not gonna make a frame be better, just makes you more short sighted.

Keep calling me shortsighted. Keep insulting me whatever.  

Edited April 20, 2017 by LazyKnight

[Fallen_Echo]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

If you mod for range and reduce duration to it's smallest amount, wouldn't catalysm bomb still work?

Not really as it currently deals damage equal to the 10% of the avarage health of mobs inside. Its practically nothing.

[SDGDen]

yeh. only nullies, closing a cataclysm or walking out of cataclysm pulls you out of the rift. not even constant magnetic procs as i tested on todays pc sortie...

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

8 hours ago, Evanescent said:

I AM NOT ASKING DE TO REINSTATE THE NUKE SPAM. PLEASE READ ON BEFORE RAGEPOSTING AND SPARE ME YOUR SNARK, THANK YOU.

Here are the changes:

• Cataclysm now deals different amount of damage over the time it exists: 25% Damage when bubble is full size, 100% at its smallest size.
• Cataclysm damage scaling now uses average Health + Shield instead of total Health + Shield of enemies within.

The bubble does not keep enemies inside, and so you can't deal 100% damage to enemies in anything more than a tiny, tiny area before it closes. This means 99% of the time you do no damage because enemies can move, and eventually leave the radius of cataclysm. This is, for lack of better words, extremely stupid to see and use. It makes absolutely no sense. And I speak from using maximum range possible with cunning drift, overextended and stretch.

Average health and average shield means you do basically no damage to any enemy in anything outside of baby level planets. It does not scale, especially not with its blast type damage.

Therefore, now cataclysm does not scale and does not deal its full damage except on paper. I find it difficult to believe this was playtested and approved for patching in this state.

Why keep any damage at all DE? You could have just removed its damage component and replaced with something like team damage buff with the number of enemies in the rift, heals from enemies in the cata bubble killed, etc etc, anything if you did not want Limbo to nuke. If that is not his intended, design. give him something else. There is no reason to hand him a crippled ability without recompensing him by by nudging him up in some other way.

The problem with cataclysm was not its scaling but its spammability. You could have just made it so that

1) it only dealt the damage it was dealing when it closed naturally, which at the lowest duration takes about 18-20 seconds ish. If needed bump up the duration of cataclysm so that there is a soft cooldown. 

2)It dealt the damage over its maximum range when it closes to avoid the current joke it is now

Why nerf the scaling?

I ask you to make the following changes:

1) Cataclysm deals its damage when it runs out not in its small piddly minimum range but over its original radius. This will at least allow you to keep enemies inside with rift surge and deal damage.

2)Cataclysm reverts its scaling but retains its property that it can only apply its scaled up damage when it closes naturally. Spamming detonate will only deal its base damage

Otherwise, remove its damage component and give it something else. 

Just being a larger, glorified banish is not enough to justify an ultimate DE. Please reconsider and come up with something better. I do not insist on giving it damage, but give it anything that remains useful.

Thank you for reading.

 

You make great points but unfortunately. with Warframe it seems to be "don't speak unless spoken to". how much community feedback do they get? and how much do they listen to? how many bugs get reported? how many bugs get even acknowledged? it's a power thing more than likely. when they 'ask" for community feedback they veto it anyways (ivara's augment, the melee creation contest). its how it will always be. It's kind of funny how most all the cosmetics that are popular are made by designers. maybe, just maybe the community has good ideas too? (shocking, right?)

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

3 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

yeh. only nullies, closing a cataclysm or walking out of cataclysm pulls you out of the rift. not even constant magnetic procs as i tested on todays pc sortie...

thats weird i kept on getting pulled out of the rift by a hyena in today's sortie

[SDGDen]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

thats weird i kept on getting pulled out of the rift by a hyena in today's sortie

hmmm... maybe a stealth change to limbo in the latest pc update? weird.

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

Just now, SupremeDutchGamer said:

hmmm... maybe a stealth change to limbo in the latest pc update? weird.

im on console aka the lame duck of the warframe family

[TaylorsContraction]

While I didn't like spambo I agree with op that the current state of cataclysm is baffling.  The best suggestion I've seen is to remove the shrinking mechanic.