[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[chainchompguy3]

The new requirement to be in the same plane does, at first glance, seem bad. Really bad.

 

But it actually functions less as a requirement, and more as a QOL change for the new AOE banish.

Because the new Banish is no longer a "Select this 1 target and bring them into the rift".

It's new function is to effectively do the opposite of Cataclysm: "remove as many enemies as possible from your rift (or out of the material plane, if you manage to survive out there)".

 

Because Stasis doesn't last forever. And maybe you'd like to reposition your cataclysm. Or maybe you want to revive someone.

If you don't have time to kill everything currently in the rift, you can banish them out of it, and start with a clean slate.

THAT is the new banish, and having it not pull in 2 enemies every time I just want to in-banish 1 bombard is a huge plus.

 

We can still banish enemies for inside the rift, that's what Rift-surge's new mechanic's for.

and if you want to banish an enemy, but there aren't enough around to use rift surge, then the crowd's probably thin enough so that exiting the rift for a split second wouldn't hurt too much.

 

 

 

As for the hate for it being AOE, the biggest complaint I see about that is that it removes his ability to assassinate 1 key target.

Which is wrong. You still can. Yes, you drag in many more than 1, but that no longer prevents you from your goal: because Stasis prevents any interference.

 

Limbo's old use as "Key-target assassin" was formed because it was too dangerous to banish more than 1.

Stasis, however, has made bringing multiple enemies into the rift much safer. We no longer need to rely on Banish's knockdown.

 

But, of course, that's just how I see it.

[Leqesai]

Just chiming in to say that currently Stasis + Cataclysm is extraordinarily powerful.

How to win with Limbo:

Void dash

Attract agro of a group of enemies

Cast Stasis

Cast Cataclysm

Melee the hell out of the group that has surrounded you.

Win

 

[Evanescent]

Give it some time. It's still new for everyone, and his quirks are still being discovered and worked into new strats. I myself am struggling to adjust but that's to be expected for something I've been used to for so long. Still tinkering, still working out how to play him now.

[p3z1]

Passive: Very good. Rewards Limbos in the rift rather outside of it.

"Rift Walk": Animations are meh. Finally able to play with the rift even at rank 0. Only gripe is no one can enter from the rift "seam" (or am I doing something wrong?)

Banish: AoE vs Stun (pretty sure banish can't stun anymore. Biggest gripe being unable to banish enemies while in the rift. Shifting in and out of the Rift takes time, casting banish takes a bit of time. Will get you killed in the later levels (earlier than others due to squishiness). Only gimmick I can think of is banishing high-priority enemies permanently, due to this "rebalance."

Stasis: Banish enemies, Stasis, free kills. Good for melee Limbo builds, or those that are creative with this skill's use. Disrupts allies if they are forced in the rift for some reason.

Rift Surge: Haven't played with this skill much. Probably gonna do it later on. Still having fun with Stasis (and MLG l33t 420 plays). I don't know about this skilll TBH. For 50 energy (or 75, w/e), Limbo debuffs enemies. Killed enemies damage surged enemies, while sending non-banished enemies to the rift. Good gimmick, if it only had the range. 5m base at max rank, seriously? It won't compensate for being unable to banish enemies in the material while in the rift.

Cataclysm: Nothing much changed here, nothing much on the comments.

His passive contradicts his Banish TBH, since Limbo has to stay outside to banish enemies to the rift.

Suggestion: Allow banish to be cast cross-plane (e.g. material enemies to the rift plane while in the rift, etc etc.), OR buff Rift surge banish range.

Edited March 26, 2017 by p3z1
Rift surge feedback added

[Evanescent]

After tinkering more:

1)Can't his cast times be sped up? They are still a bit too long.

2)It would be more fluid if rifting did not interrupt actions such as shooting. I would like to phase in and out while applying damage.

3)Please allow us to remain in rift if we dash out of cataclysm.

4)There needs to be an indication of whether an enemy will die when stasis is depleted, and a UI indicator of when max no of projectiles are about to be reached.

5)Rift dashing would feel better if it was a bit faster.

Rift surge should be aoe radial, like stasis. Having to target an enemy makes it feel really off.

Please make it so.

Weird bugs: 

SHOOTING ZARR'S ALT FIRE DISABLES STASIS.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Evanescent

[jzillacon]

As a player who has played many hours as limbo before the rework and someone who has played with the post rework version a bit now, I notice two issues that I find ruins the experience. Firstly is the fact that limbo can no longer bring enemies or allies into the plane he's in, rather he must now push them into the opposite plane. I find this a major issue because it ruins the whole divide and conquer aspect of limbo in my opinion. If you want to take advantage of fighting in the rift, you now need to expose yourself only to send the enemies to a place that you need to take the time getting back into proper, and since you need to banish AND THEN rift walk yourself, you almost completely miss out on the advantage of your knockdown, making it pointless. My second issue has to do with the rift portals you leave behind. While it is a neat idea, I think it's been executed very poorly. All it take is a single limbo who prefers to roll around rather than run, and the entire map suddenly becomes a minefield of unsolicited banishments, making it nearly impossible to fight well when your next step might put you in the rift and make that sweet charged shot you were going to fire completely null. I can think of a reasonable fix to this. I think if the rift portals actually stayed around a little bit longer, but in order to enter them you would need to actually interact with it ( sort of like how Inaros's devour works ) that would solve the issue of entering the rift unintentionally.

[p3z1]

Well, I haven't got to use Rift Surge, because stasis is so much fun on it's own.

But yes, hating on the banish change personally (not being able to cross-banish enemies).

Guess I should play with Rift Surge some more (after exams lol).

[StinkyPygmy]

It still seems counter intuitive and clunky. Its not even about survivability or assassinating single targets for me, its how damn finicky and pointless it is. I'm not sure what point the banishing restriction serves. It just seems needless and makes what is already a somewhat complicated skill set (when compared to other frames at least) even more complicated for no reason.
Everything else is great. I just can't seem to adapt to banishes new mechanics no matter how hard I try. Everytime it just seems pointless.

[DoomFruit]

Things I don't like:

--Roll to change rift state. The way I see it, the hierarchy of move speeds is: roll-assisted bullet jump (fastest, most useful in very long expanses, causes vertical height change) > plain bullet jump (slower, but has the same vertical height change) > roll (has no vertical height change, this can be very important in some situations, can also cross gaps) > sprint (very slow, can't cross gaps) > crawling when about to die (yeah...).

Because enemies deal so much damage, your main strategy of not dying is to not be hit. Moving faster and dodging around increases your chances of not being hit, and it's also just plain nice to move fast, so I'm almost always using roll-assisted bullet jumping, with plain rolling for when I need to cover a short distance and ordinary sprinting when I need to sneak around a corner. These movement methods work for every single warframe in the game... or they did, until now. Because they're universal abilities, and because it's basically necessary to go fast in high-level areas to avoid dying, I don't even think about it any more. Trying to move normally on new Limbo basically results in me popping in and out and in and out and in and out of rift state - which is not only extremely annoying, but is going to get me killed because I'd rely on being rifted in order to not be shot. Tying something as important as rift to basic movement style is like putting Nekros' desecrate toggle on shooting, or Valkyr's hysteria on sliding.

This alone has completely killed Limbo for me.

If rift state can't be an actual power like it used to be, it should at least be put on something which you rarely ever use during normal gameplay. Backflips might work (such as how you currently cancel volt's speed buff), or maybe hold the use key while rolling instead?

 

--Banishment only flipping enemies to the opposite plane as yourself. This is just plain annoying. To banish something, you're going to have to expose yourself to everything that's not banished - which is, again, extremely stupid for something with as little base survivability as Limbo.

--Banishment being an AoE. This is also incredibly annoying, and will most likely end up getting either me (if trying to single out and assassinate a powerful enemy) or my ally (if trying to banish them to keep them safe from a horde of monsters) killed.

Honestly, I liked the old Limbo much better.

[Frenjo]

1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

Honestly, I liked the old Limbo much better.

Is generally the way i'm feeling at the moment, still conflicted as more "bad things" reveal themselves.

EDIT: Just want to rephrase and say I am not really optimistic, however I see improvements that can be made which is a good thing I guess.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Frenjo

[Eldest89]

I have found 3 problems with this new update:

1-banish now is kinda wild; banishing now means that a lot of enemies will enter the rift. The problem is that if I banish a friend of mine or a friendly npc the sitution doesn't change that much because they are still sorrounded by enemies. Yes I can for sure reduce the range of the ability but this choice reduce 3rd and 4th range too making them farly useless. I could kill the enemies before they do kill my banished friends but the range is so wide that probably I will miss someone wich take me to the 2nd problem.

2-the "rift effect" around the rifted targets isn't so easy to see especially with eximus which has other effect around them. Undestrand wich enemy is banished and which are not is difficult and it's a big problem because you have to be in their same plane to re-banish them.

 3-the 3rd power... I don't understand if it should deal damege to other enemys effected by the power or not because the power's description says so but, in the reality, it doesn't. 

If it doesn't... well I just can't see the point of spendind 50 energy for that power... 

[Eldest89]

On 24/3/2017 at 10:53 PM, (PS4)VaDeR81 said:

Well that sounds chitty. U guys got me worried.  Time to bring back single target banish then. Or tap/hold. I always thought the multi banish should be a cascade anyway. Hold and one by one they all fall down. 

yeah I totaly agree with you

[Eldest89]

On 24/3/2017 at 11:12 PM, (PS4)VaDeR81 said:

The problem is that multi banish. 

exactly

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 24/03/2017 at 8:11 PM, LonewolfSOC said:

Using Roll for entering and exiting the Rift is kinda rubbish. In this fast-paced game Maneuvers especially Rolling is mandatory.

Me and I bet A LOT of people dont want to enter and exit the rift each time they roll with Limbo.

Tbh you should revisit this idea for the "Rifting"

This, we need a toggle for it.

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 24/03/2017 at 9:59 PM, notHunky said:

The change to banish is really really bad. If you can't banish enemies while inside the rift, then what's the point?

As a sidegrade, maybe make it so that rift walk has an initial energy cost and is effected by power duration like the old style, but allow us to banish enemies regardless of which plane they are in? The rift walk duration could be displayed on the top right as a status buff with a timer like how allies are effected by banish. Think that would have been the best option.

This also, it feels really stupid, that you can't

[Eldest89]

for the first ability I think that would be good to make it not aoe but to the cost of casting it should gradualy reduce like with Valkyr's first; in that way you will be alble to put a lot of enemies in the rift but with much controll and a progressively lesser cost. furthermore it's just super annoing being banished by a Limbo just because you are near the enemies the use the power on it

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Eldest89

[BecauseJavier]

I've been playing a lot of limbo now that the rework has come out, and It has been very, very fun. However, there is one thing that has stood out to me:

Limbo's Banish is Practically useless.

Let me break it down:

• Only works while outside of the rift.
• Can't  use it to eject enemies from the rift while inside the rift.
• Seriously, why can't I use it to un-rift enemies while inside the rift? That's silly.
• Negligible damage from level 25 and up.
• Simply spamming cataclysm would be more effective since I can actually EJECT enemies from the rift instantaneously if needed, not to mention that even without an efficiency build you probably will never run out of energy to spam it with.

All of these things combine to make it a utterly useless ability that I haven't found myself using unless I make an actual effort to. Here's how I would Improve it:

• Make it usable within the rift, but ONLY on rifted enemies.
• Have it temporarily apply a status effect who's effectiveness scales with enemy lvl/health.

These two, hell, even just the first improvement would cause me to actually use banish, as opposed to just filing it away as a crappier cataclysm.

[WernerShadow]

29 minutes ago, BecauseJavier said:

I've been playing a lot of limbo now that the rework has come out, and It has been very, very fun. However, there is one thing that has stood out to me:

Limbo's Banish is Practically useless.

Let me break it down:

• Only works while outside of the rift.
• Can't  use it to eject enemies from the rift while inside the rift.
• Seriously, why can't I use it to un-rift enemies while inside the rift? That's silly.
• Negligible damage from level 25 and up.
• Simply spamming cataclysm would be more effective since I can actually EJECT enemies from the rift instantaneously if needed, not to mention that even without an efficiency build you probably will never run out of energy to spam it with.

All of these things combine to make it a utterly useless ability that I haven't found myself using unless I make an actual effort to. Here's how I would Improve it:

• Make it usable within the rift, but ONLY on rifted enemies.
• Have it temporarily apply a status effect who's effectiveness scales with enemy lvl/health.

These two, hell, even just the first improvement would cause me to actually use banish, as opposed to just filing it away as a crappier cataclysm.

glad its not just me who thinks this

[Circle_of_Psi]

So, after playing with Limbo a bit, in the Sim-Room, I have to admit, Limbo's rework is impressive, but counterproductive at best. So with that being said, Here is my own Feedback & Suggestions.

Limbo's Passive:

His passive chuold do with a bit of a bigger buff, as right now, its the following <While in the Rift, Limbo receives a slight Energy regeneration. Additionally, enemies killed in the Rift will grant Limbo 10 Energy.>. At best, this is perrty lacking in his "Rift" theme.

Suggestion: 

Acquisition: His Dash Passive, Remains how it is. (However I suggestion a Toggle)

While Inside The Rift: Limbo gains a Energy Over Time giveing him 0.5 per second. (Can be stacked with Energy Siphon). Killing while inside the rift, will Amp the abbtily to 0.10 per second.

While Outside The Rift: Limbo gains additional shields when casting his powers, that can grow into Over-shields are inactive. (Can be stacked with Brief Respite)

This will make Limbo a bit more reliable in terms of his passive, 2 passives in one, to make him more of a Rift Master, both outside and in the Rift. This will also give him more protection, outside the rift.

Banish: <Send enemies and Allies within a small radius into or out of the Rift for a period of time. Banish targets must be in the same Plane as Limbo to be affected. For example, Limbo must be in the Material Plane to Banish Material Plane targets to the Rift and vice versa. Banished enemies will take damage when casted and will be knocked down for a brief period of time.>

Right, now this is counterproductive, you should be able to Banish anyone, regardless of where you are, Limbo is the Rift Master, he should able to control both planes. 

Suggestion: 

Void Containment: Limbo can Bring Enemies into the Rift, regardless of what plane he is in. Items can be still picked up.

While Inside The Rift: Limbo Deals damage, when bringing in Enemies into the Rift, When taking them out, they gain Void Corruption DoT.

While Outside The Rift: Limbo Heals Allies, when sending them to the Rift. When Allies are inside the Rift, they gain the Movement Activated Ability, so they are able to exit, quicker. (Note: You will lose the "Dash", when you are outside the Rift, if you are NOT Limbo)

Stasis: <Stop Banished enemies in their tracks by putting them in Stasis for a period time. Toggle the ability on and move within the Rift to strategically set up shots around enemies affected by Stasis. Projectiles will stay suspended until the Stasis timer runs out, until toggled off, or until the 300 projectile limit has been reached, upon which your torrent of projectiles will be launched at the enemy.>

Nothing wrong, with this power, its great, However I think his 2nd Power, should act like Minelayer, having 4 unique powers in one. 

Void Auxiliary: Hold to Cast, Tap to Switch.

Surge: Void energy surges through Limbo and into the Rift, charging enemies within it. Charged enemies that cross over to the Material Plane will Banish themselves and nearby enemies back into the Rift. When charged enemies die outside of the Rift, they surge and transfer the charge to nearby enemies.

Stasis: Freezes Rift-bound enemies. While active, weapon fire is arrested in mid-air, resuming trajectory when Stasis ends.

Cataclysm: Surges nearby Rift-bound enemies with Rift energy. When killed these enemies create a chain reaction that damages other Surged enemies. Surged enemies that leave the Rift perform a radial Banish. (Deals Void Corruption Damage)

Invasion:  Prime's Limbo's Powers & Weapons to deal a Void Corruption damage, that burns pure Void energies onto its Enemies, Void Burning glitches out shields/Armor aginest its master. and effects the health by making them more reliable to other sources of damage.
 

Remnant Oculyst: Limbo can summon a Remnant Oculyst to fight by his side. This Unique Oculyest was one lost, by straying too far into Void and now has became allies with Limbo. With no way to return safely it has became timid.

The Remnant Oculyst has the Communal Link & Sensor Beam, The Sensor beam deals Void Corruption damage and the Link acts like their own version of Link amongst itself and Limbo, Near by Allies will be effected too. 

 

Void Fissure:

Limbo channels all his energy into a massive Rift of Void Corruption, tearing open a Fissure to deal high amount of Void Corruption damage, Allies who are in-range when Limbo casts, will be healed. Enemies that are near, will take significant Corruption damage.

While Inside The Rift: Allies who touch the Corruption, will gain health and energy overtime, but their shields will be drained in order to take effect. While Enemies will be banished inside and out the rift rapidity.

While Outside The Rift: Allies who touch the Corruption will be given a huge damage boost and their shields will heal over-time. However they are more acceptable to health damage. Hostiles that touch the Corruption will be damaged over time.

   

 

So, I may have gone a bit overboard with this hole new idea, of Limbo, I always do that, but let me kown what you think, A much more smiplefied and less "Fantasy" suggestion will be here soon.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by LegionCynex
Fixed Odd Black Text

[Klydoris]

Having to say the same. Plus in a PUG playing as Limbo is still mostly annoying to the other team members. Can't count the insults I got for using Cataclysm alone.

[StarScribe]

On 24/03/2017 at 11:47 PM, Death_Master_ said:

Sadly they took one really wrong decision - they inverted logic of banish.

Instead of allowing us pull enemies to the rift banish now pushes enemies from where Limbo is. 

Agreed, been trying to get used to the new mechanic but it just feels so counterintuitive now. It would feel much better and be far more beneficial if we could pull enemies into our current plane rather than push them into the opposite.

I suppose a toggle mechanic to enable this as a choice would bring the best of both to the warframe and enable different playstyles.

Edited March 26, 2017 by StarScribe

[Circle_of_Psi]

So, here is the less "Omg Fantasy" idea

Limbo's Passive:

His passive chuold do with a bit of a bigger buff, While in the Rift, Limbo receives a much bigger Energy regeneration. Additionally, enemies killed in the Rift will grant Limbo 10 Energy, His Dash Passive, Remains how it is. (However I suggestion a Toggle)

Banish: Limbo can Bring Enemies into the Rift, regardless of what plane he is in. Items can be still picked up and dropped safely, Regardless what plane.. Allies inside the rift, gain Limbos Dash Power, so they can exit much quicker. Note: They will lose the dash, when they leave. Duh.

Rift Surge: Allow it to be casted regardless of what plane you are in. (Like How does this power even work?, I can;t cast it inside or outside the rift) 

Edited March 26, 2017 by LegionCynex
Fixed Error With Formatting

[Frenjo]

Just now, LegionCynex said:

-snip-

One immediate flaw with that... Limbo uses the Rift, not the Void. They're two separate dimensions.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 minute ago, Frenjo said:

One immediate flaw with that... Limbo uses the Rift, not the Void. They're two separate dimensions.

Ture, but I pretty much changed Limbo into a Void Master, then a Rift, but hay my mind sometimes. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by LegionCynex

[Frenjo]

1 minute ago, LegionCynex said:

Ture, but I pretty much changed Limbo into a Void Master, then a Rift, but hay my mind sometimes. 

Let's not go that wild just yet, all that needs fixing are a few small details to make it bearable.

Addendum: That's an idea for Limbo Prime however, dealing with the void, as the original Limbo (Prime) tried something similar but exploded. #LimboPrimeWhen

Edited March 26, 2017 by Frenjo