[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)psycofang]

17 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I wonder about this as well. I know it's possible for enemies to become charged outside the rift, because I've seen them walking around in the material plane with those energy bands on them, but I have no idea how it happened, and that description doesn't explain it. Some clarity on this point would be nice.

Basically the moves glitch out a little but it still works.

 

Banish an enemy and hit surge to prime them then banish them so theyll "explode" causing a localized radial banish which rebanishes them and banishes any enemy near them in a 5m radius.

 

If you kill a surged enemy in the rift it sends damage to all other surged enemies in the rift.

So 

Surged enemy dies in rift - sends damage to all other mobs who are rifted and surged.

 

Surged enemy leaves/ejected from rift- enemies become banish bombs.

[ChameleonBro]

To avoid huge paragraphs I'll do this quickly.

Limbo rework in a nutshell

Limbo rework has been out for a day or so and I must say I am quite satisfied, though his 3 seems to be bugged as it does literally no damage and his Banish has been almost unusable. Having to walk up to a crowd of enemies to banish someone is the same situation as with the old Cataclysm, it's suicide. Banish pretty much lost it's point, I really hope they bring back the old Banish, but keep the AoE.

Other than that the rest of his abilities I feel like are really good now, Stasis is great and fun to use and going into the rift is super smooth. I just hope DE fixes his Rift Surge and changes Banish to be able to send enemies into the rift regardless of whether you are on the same plane or not.

EDIT: I also forgot to say that enemies in Stasis sometimes move a bit, they are frozen but make small movements, sometimes. I also noticed that if you unfreeze the time and you are not in the Rift, the projectiles you placed won't do anything to the enemies. Not sure if this one is a bug or not but the first one definitely is.

[Voidforged]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Ancient Healers you say? Nullies maybe, but how about nothing BUT Ancient Healers?

He's gonna get nerfed by next week.

now how about something armored? even a lancer would survive that no problem.

[(PSN)psycofang]

16 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Look at the first post of this thread, for example. And that still doesn't explain how an enemy ends up charged while outside the rift, so you didn't answer my question at all.

"Rift Surge seems to have some misinformation in it's description, and the description for it on the Update page seems to read differently

In-game states that there is a chain-damage feature upon killing a surged enemy, however such a feature is not working. Additionally, the forum description states that killing enemies that are surged outside of the Rift will charge enemies nearby. This is only half true; only enemies that are INSIDE the Rift when charged and killed with spread a charge. It does not work outside the Rift like what the forum description says."

 

Im going off of the in game description and even said its glitching out. Its quite possible a bug which is why its seemingly inconsistent/not happening.

A few people have posted it in the bug section for U20.0 so hopefully theyll shed light on it.

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[DreamsmithJane]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

"Rift Surge seems to have some misinformation in it's description, and the description for it on the Update page seems to read differently

In-game states that there is a chain-damage feature upon killing a surged enemy, however such a feature is not working. Additionally, the forum description states that killing enemies that are surged outside of the Rift will charge enemies nearby. This is only half true; only enemies that are INSIDE the Rift when charged and killed with spread a charge. It does not work outside the Rift like what the forum description says."

 

Im going off of the in game description and even said its glitching out. Its quite possible a bug which is why its seemingly inconsistent/not happening.

 

Okay. That's new information. Who said that? Where? I didn't remember seeing that in the arsenal, but it's definitely there. It just...doesn't actually do that. XD I was surprised that Limbo's update was included in U20. I didn't think it was ready. Looks like it's not. Yay~, glitches...

[Trichouette]

Didn't you.. already posted that ?

 

[AXCrusnik]

Banish's name makes more sense this way if you ask me (also I can banish from a distance so I don't see why it would be unusable now). It's a little confusing at first but I think it's better this way now that it's AoE. You know what plane you are sending a group of enemies to and there won't be a random one in the bunch that gets pulled out of the rift when you're banishing a group or vice versa.

I also haven't seen Rift Surge do any damage.

Edited March 26, 2017 by AXCrusnik

[Death_Master_]

1 hour ago, Rythiman said:

In a game like Warframe, having a precision tool is not very useful

Oh, did you think well about it?

Main goal of Limbo is often not "to nuke a room" but to "take to rift targets he needs to protect". 

1 hour ago, Rythiman said:

Going back to single target would clearly make #1 less useful, not more useful.

Much more useful for my goal, maybe less useful for yours. So compromise is to make both mechanics, right? 

I seen in this topic before suggestion to make it two types(tap/hold). I would prefer if to be tap what you want and hold what i want. 

[Shadu]

1 minute ago, Death_Master_ said:

Oh, did you think well about it?

Main goal of Limbo is often not "to nuke a room" but to "take to rift targets he needs to protect". 

Much more useful for my goal, maybe less useful for yours. So compromise is to make both mechanics, right? 

I seen in this topic before suggestion to make it two types(tap/hold). I would prefer if to be tap what you want and hold what i want. 

The number one change they have to make to banish is to make it work on both planes at all times, how they do the handling of already banished targets or not is up to them.
Making it so you have to "risk" going out of the rift to banish an enemy does not work. If you do this versus high level enemies you'll instantly be killed before you can banish anyone and have stasis up and running again due to the long cast animations and the deadly lock on of these enemies.

Whether the skill should be single target or not.. I'm not sure, single target could easily work and makes you more reliant on using Rift Surge if you want to banish more targets without using cataclysm. Banish being AoE makes you more reliant on stasis and I'm not sure what would be the better one of the two options.

 

[Frenjo]

10 minutes ago, Shadu said:

The number one change they have to make to banish is to make it work on both planes at all times, how they do the handling of already banished targets or not is up to them.
Making it so you have to "risk" going out of the rift to banish an enemy does not work. If you do this versus high level enemies you'll instantly be killed before you can banish anyone and have stasis up and running again due to the long cast animations and the deadly lock on of these enemies.

Whether the skill should be single target or not.. I'm not sure, single target could easily work and makes you more reliant on using Rift Surge if you want to banish more targets without using cataclysm. Banish being AoE makes you more reliant on stasis and I'm not sure what would be the better one of the two options.

 

Agreed, and I prefer single target!

[devildevil21]

Take the word "banish" literally.

 

Casting someone OUT of your realm/location/home/place.

[Shadu]

1 minute ago, devildevil21 said:

Take the word "banish" literally.

 

Casting someone OUT of your realm/location/home/place.

Like we really need to take a word literally to make it have sense in a game? Please no, make it so it fits the game instead of the name.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

Well. There goes my excitement for the changes.

 

Unable to banish while in the rift? What is the bloody point of that?

[devildevil21]

6 minutes ago, Shadu said:

Like we really need to take a word literally to make it have sense in a game? Please no, make it so it fits the game instead of the name.

Cataclysm + rift surge is the way to go now. Banish is the skill you'll be using to get enemies out of your plane if it is too crowded.

[DreamsmithJane]

1 hour ago, Trichouette said:

Didn't you.. already posted that ?

 

Not sure what you were trying to link, but this is a megathread. What happens is that, when people create a lot of threads on the same topic, those threads are merged into the megathread to save space. So if you see a post in a megathread and think, "didn't I already see that in another thread?", it's probably literally the same post, and not the same person posting the same thing in multiple places.

[Kaokasalis]

I really didnt like playing with a Limbo before and i still dont like it. I do consider most of the changes to Limbo to be good, especially finally letting us pick up loot in the Cataclysm bubble as that was just a massive hindrace but what the hell were you thinking when making Stasis? The CC from stasis in it self is good but issue that i have is with it stoping projectiles. Sure it might be cool for some but to me its a massive annoyance. Whenever i use guns and a Limbo joins i have to stop using them entirely just to be able to kill stuff. Its a stupid and intrusive aspect of the ability that thwarts any attempt at having fun with guns or other ranged weapons. I think its a fair trade-off for the Limbo considering how potent Stasis is as CC but it shouldnt freeze allied projectiles. Either make it not freeze allied projectiles or make enemies affected by statis just move in slow-mo and same for projectiles, then this ability would be far easier to tolerate any Limbo using Stasis. Its one of the core problems that Limbo have, the player that plays Limbo gets to dictate who you can kill and who you cant.

Another problem is also Cataclysm. Enemies in the edge of the bubble cannot be killed from the outside even if some part of their body is outside the rift and this can be confusing. Can enemies in the edge please be killable from both sides?

Edited March 26, 2017 by Hieracon

[Trichouette]

Just now, DreamsmithJane said:

Not sure what you were trying to link, but this is a megathread. What happens is that, when people create a lot of threads on the same topic, those threads are merged into the megathread to save space. So if you see a post in a megathread and think, "didn't I already see that in another thread?", it's probably literally the same post, and not the same person posting the same thing in multiple places.

Well he created twice the same thread, one got merged here and the other got deleted...

[DreadWarlock]

I'm sorry guys I tried to read this. I tried to agree with your opinons but I can't. NO, New limbo is so much better than the former, I can hardly even begin to understand how would the problems you cite be viable.

Let me enumerate a number of arguments that are clearly untrue.

1. "Limbo can't suvive outside the rift."

That's bullcrap, all warframes get one shot eventually, regardless of armor values or Life/shield values, If you're getting downed constantly outside the rift, then it's either one of these two situations:

a. Your allies are crap and can't deal with enemies, which means that the enemy population is growing faster than all of you can handle

b. You're not used to facing enemies at higher levels, this is a real problem because, like I said, everyone but Chroma gets one shot at very high levels, and yet many players manage to survive under those conditions. It's all a matter of practice and playstyle.

2."Rift Dash is crap, the way the game is I have to roll constantly to survive"

I'm sorry but this is also untrue, the void dash is way better than the roll, you can get to safety instantly, so if you have a problem with how you banished too many enemies, you can leave the void and be invulnerable against those banished targets, or you can go to the void and be invulnerable. Either way, you'll be able to safely leave the action while you reposition to a safe point. It's also much, much faster than the former Rift. You can banish, void dash and kill enemies before they have a chance of getting up from the ground, you only fail to do so if your weapon is not strong enough for the job, alternatively you could always use a weapon that has really high status chance, mod for corrosive and blast, and the enemies will never get up.

3."AOE Banish is bad"

Banish was clunky because you could only banish one enemy per cast, which means that the time it takes you to banish and kill, will be more than enough for your allies to kill 4-5 enemies(more with AOE weapons). You won't have this problem with the AOE banish, be it for enemies or allies, also the rage is good enough that you can banish all allies around you instantly, this helps a lot in Capture or Rescue missions.

4."Rift Surge is useless."

It's NOT. Banish and rift surge enemies when facing a large group, you'll bring more enemies into the rift, and kill more as well. Because as soon as you kill an enemy, another one will be banished in it's place, allowing you to kill large groups of enemies one by one. And if you have the Augment for it, you'll even get a damage buff of it. Once again, current Limbo is much better than the former, you'll kill a lot more enemies, whith less preparation, and without fearing the use of your abilities. There are no downsides to using abilities with the new set of powers.

5."Cataclysm" 

Ok so this is not a point that was criticized, but Cataclysm is now a really good skill, i don't think I need to tell you guys that. This ability now allows you to revive allies more effectively, thanks to the timestop, and the fact that Cataclysm damage now scales with enemies health and shields.

Sorry for the long post. I'll give you guys a few tips that will allow you to play more effectively with these new changes.

For the Stasis, know that you can use this ability outside the rift, which means that you can use it first, in a safe place, and go around looking for enemies to banish, while stoping their time instantly. This allows you to use a melee weapon, this way you can control how many enemies you face, you'll have little need to mind how many enemies you stop in it's track. 

The tactic here is to use stasis, search for enemies(with your melee in range), banish them, followed by a Rift Dash to get close, and combo the living hell out of them. you can also use Rift surge before you combo, that way you can add more enemies to the "world beyond time" and kill them as they come.

New Limbo synergizes pretty well with Melee weapons. More than with guns, as for tactics for guns, I suggest you bring AOE weapons if you intend to use the same tactic. That way you won't need to stop time, at all.

Edited March 26, 2017 by DreadWarlock

[Shadu]

40 minutes ago, devildevil21 said:

Cataclysm + rift surge is the way to go now. Banish is the skill you'll be using to get enemies out of your plane if it is too crowded.

What do you actually have against banish being targetable on both planes? I personally feel like Cataclysm is to be used to set a killing floor, while banish is supposed to be used on the move. Cataclysm has a too long animation cast time to be used on the move where as banish is okay to use, but using banish out of the rift at higher level stuff will instantly get you killed.

For me it seems that the whole playstyle of Limbo will be around timing your stasis right and placing the right shots. If you don't you'll easily die, if you do you'll be rather skillful and kill enemies as it's supposed to. Right now the banish is a hindrance to it and you're stuck to a single position with cataclysm

[Yangir]

As an experienced limbo player, I have to say the dodge, cataclysm, and stasis are incredible changes, but the new rift surge without torrent is completely useless. The effect is complicated and obsolete, and just makes it incredibly confusing to know whos banished and who isnt. the fact that you have to cast it every time enemies enter the void, and the torrent effect only works on ones still in the void makes it even harder to use. Why cant we have something closer to the creativity of stasis, or something that links damage between enemies in the void, without having to cast it over and over. Also, can we please get a nicer looking visual effect for this ability? also, it is difficult to tell when stasis is active, some kind of fx on limbo would be helpful.

All in all, i love the majority of the changes, but rift surge has got to change.

[DreadWarlock]

2 minutes ago, Yangir said:

As an experienced limbo player, I have to say the dodge, cataclysm, and stasis are incredible changes, but the new rift surge without torrent is completely useless. The effect is complicated and obsolete, and just makes it incredibly confusing to know whos banished and who isnt. the fact that you have to cast it every time enemies enter the void, and the torrent effect only works on ones still in the void makes it even harder to use. Why cant we have something closer to the creativity of stasis, or something that links damage between enemies in the void, without having to cast it over and over. Also, can we please get a nicer looking visual effect for this ability? also, it is difficult to tell when stasis is active, some kind of fx on limbo would be helpful.

All in all, i love the majority of the changes, but rift surge has got to change.

Oh I've finally read a valid point. Yes, I also have a few problems with rift surge sometimes. It'd be bettter if it worked more like Equinox Rest and Rage build(With Augment)

[Yangir]

The fact that you have to banish out of realm is not to bad when you consider that with unlimited rift walk, there would never be any reason to leave the rift, you would just pull enemis in, stasis, the n rinse and repeat. It just makes limbo have to be played more actively.

P.S. can we do something about limbo getting effected by his own rift tears? it is such a pain in the &#! to un-banish and get stuck in your own tear again.

[malekas]

Am I the only person who thinks this part of Limbo's dash is detrimental? Not only does limbo himself not need it, but all it does is make an active obstacle that your allies have to dodge. Nobody wants to be put in the rift constantly while working their way through the map. If I want to be in a rift I will ask a Limbo to banish me. These tears are terrible and slow everything down because now I have to dodge them while parkouring through a stage. Is it just me?

[Yangir]

2 minutes ago, DreadWarlock said:

Oh I've finally read a valid point. Yes, I also have a few problems with rift surge sometimes. It'd be bettter if it worked more like Equinox Rest and Rage build(With Augment)

I think something more along the lines of mend and maim would be a more perfect model; the whole premise of limbo is having control over his void dimension. Something that charges the void in accordance to enemies affected or damage dealt in the rift would be a good pair to cataclysm and stasis. Its effect should have a degree of control or advantage in the rift. Another good change would be to allow finisher damage with a melee weapon during stasis.

[PsiWarp]

A case of convenience vs. annoyance really. On one hand I don't have to babysit allies who want to take advantage of the rift, they can just hop through the tear to fight enemies I group-banished there as I rift dash in to deal with them. On the other hand, a Limbo that constantly use Rift Dash as a mobility tool leave behind so much crap even if just 5 seconds each, allies have to evade or "roll" along with him to stay out of the rift.

I personally try to avoid Rift Dashing too much in the path of my team. But I do expect them to learn to use the rift as this is clearly the design direction the devs are going for.