Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Leonix13]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

You're saying that the renewal+hallowed combo uses too much energy?

 

You need to build your Oberon specifically around this combo. It costs nothing to cast or maintain if you build effectively. The boost it gives is absolutely fantastic. You get way more health than Nidus with his ultra cool flower field and have zero zone restrictions on it. You also get a good 400 armor to all your buddies. This is really nice in supporting the squishier frames.

Toss on the Renewal augment, as well, and you've got yourself an absolute BEAST of a team-support thing going on. with 200% power strength your team gets an instant revive every 90s in addition to 80 health/s and 400 armor.

Maintaining the energy drain on this is mind-numbingly easy.

Congrats you made a frame that heals a little better than Nidus,except Nidus can do so much more while hes at it... And no Phoenix Renewal is 1 revive per 90 seconds, not 1 per player so it's team utility is meh,

[Leqesai]

Yeah I don't know if you could really do a reckoning thing added into the HG+Renewal thing with how I have it figured out. It might be designed to work better as either HG+reckoning or HG+renewal.

Needs much more testing, at this point.

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

Congrats you made a frame that heals a little better than Nidus,except Nidus can do so much more while hes at it... And no Phoenix Renewal is 1 revive per 90 seconds, not 1 per player so it's team utility is meh,

Wait.. What!?

That is a major bummer. I thought it was a per-player thing... crap!!!

From the wiki it clearly says "each player that triggers phoenix renewal must undergo a 90s timer"

That means that each player gets a 90s timer... just like I said.

Also "a little better than nidus"

I think you mean roughly 2x as good as Nidus, considering he caps out around 45 health a second and Oberon is like 80+ (so not QUITE 2x as effective but 80 health a second is quite good).

 

 

You're underplaying this combo, my friend. It is very powerful.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Leqesai
Researched claim

[PsiWarp]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Wait.. What!?

That is a major bummer. I thought it was a per-player thing... crap!!!

Actually, it's better than before. Now each player under Renewal's influence gets 1 free insta-revive with 5 seconds invulnerability, and the cooldown is per player.

You can easily test this with low MR players on boss runs, because you can see that there is a cooldown timer next to the player(s) that were "Phoenix Renewed". I have a build specifically tailored to grant semi-permanent Renewal to teammates with Phoenix Renewal giving them the occasional second chance, it's wonderful how well it works.

[Leqesai]

Just now, PsiWarp said:

Actually, it's better than before. Now each player under Renewal's influence gets 1 free insta-revive with 5 seconds invulnerability, and the cooldown is per player.

You can easily test this with low MR players on boss runs, because you can see that there is a cooldown timer next to the player(s) that were "Phoenix Renewed". I have a build specifically tailored to grant semi-permanent Renewal to teammates with Phoenix Renewal giving them the occasional second chance, it's wonderful how well it works.

Thanks for the clarification :)

[sulusdacor]

some first impression:

(played before the 20.3.1 hotfix mostly and only a short syndicate survival after)

compared to before he feels more fun to play. his skills are definilty somewhat more satisfiing to use. not sure why, sicne they mostly stayed the same. it could just be the animation speed up, but i had fun playing him.

For the scaling i took him into a kuva flood mission against infested and a 50min grineer survival (at the end enemys had level 100). In the kuva flood we had a trinity and two oberons and the survival only two oberons duo. both went fairly well i must say. the radiation procs from his 2nd ability do a lot for his survivability. it falls off later on due to enemys simply shooting form outside and doing to much dmg. which i think is okay, only used strech, so for highlevel i imagine an max range build will do just fine.

for the smite damage i mostly played before and the knockdown is a much needed help. after the hotfix i noticed the smite did puncture damage? not sure if that is intended, but it seemed to scale a bit better, but only did the one lower level mission so not much testing.

for the 2 i think this is fine. i expect some different optics there and the prime time view seemd like a place holder. but it is okay. for the darker tiles like eris it might be nice to have maybe some additional lighting effects added onto it, to see it a bit better. i like the enrgy color overlap. we had 2 oberons and with green and red we got a orange carpet when we castetd both^^

the third i liked so far. there is a small problem that if you cast the heal first and then the carpet hallowed ground you dont get the armor buff, which i think should be fixed. when the order does not matter it helps a bit and especially after it is a toggle i imagine this should be adressed. but the armor buff stack, which is cool. i hope it stays sicne the about 400ish armor i had with blindrage and the additional 400 form the other oberon are not gamebreaking, but a cool thing to have. the stacking symbol might need some tweaks to not overflow the buff bar on top. if other frames in the grp do a lot of buffs too. the armor values seems okay. in higher levels it is not much, i would maybe love some combination of flat and percentage. like 250 + 25% and both scale with power strenth to cap at some point. i dont know, but i feel currently it is not excatly worth for frames with high armor. with both percentage and falt values if somewhat balanced, it would have use for low armor and high armor frames.

the 4th ability seems good. the damage seems fine even in the 50ish level. nothing compared to a damage frame like ash or so, but for a support i think it does the job, since you get the cc too.

in terms of augments i tested the one for his 4, which still is a bit meh. i had stretch and the range really seems very small of these fields. So i would love some range increase there or maybe change the augment, since the spirals look a bit like a cage thing. let the augment change the 4, so that after the slam the enemies get stunes in the spirals for some time? it currently feels not worth to use for the slot.

the renewal augemnt is still good and probably the most worth to use currently, especially wiht the toggle.

in terms of toggle itself that came with the hotfix, i feel it might be some problem. i kinda like it, but on the other hands i did play the higher level missions before the toggle was ingame. i used zenurik and his abilites require combination. you casting the 2 to hold the proc field out. then you want the armor buff, so you spend energy on the heal every time. then soemtimes the first to knock down some enemies. so you spend a lot of energy. i had blindrage and fleeting and streamline in,with 135% efficiency. which is not the best, but not the worst. But later on i had some problems with energy, since the occasional leech eximus and the knock down from smite was used more frequently. so having the heal a toggle and the need restrictions in terms of energy (no zenurik) might hold some problems. on the other hand i can see him opening up to some interisting rage builds with the renewal augment. so not excatly sure here, since rage is not an "early" mod to get if he should stay as the "new player"/"early obtainable" frame. but it might make rage to a needed mod for him. that said he is not the most tanky frame, so using rage to get energy would be fine up to mid level content, but then most things will just kill him if he has no energy and needs to get hit. so yeah... to that comes i liked the interaction+animation of the non toggle renewal, sicne it emphasied on his abiltly combinations.

on that note before the hotfix i felt he had a bit of a mod space problem. way more then other frames. since you need at least some range for hallowed ground. then you need survival mods like vitaility, since he has no real other means to do so (yes rad procs help,but are not reliable). since you need to combo, you need efficiency. then you need the decent strength for buffs, maybe some damage and heal (haven't tested, but i assume the heal does scale with power str too). then duration you want too if you are using his 2 and 3. since if you have that to low, you end up recasting his 2 way to often. so he basicly needs all positive to do his role as a support somewhat decent. which i think hurts his build variety a lot. there are a bunch of "must have" mods to do the things he does decent anyway in a somewhat okay manner.

for his passive havent used it. it seems more gimmick then before. if his theme is supportframe, heals,radiaiton,confusion. what does this has to do with my kubrow/kavat/helmith? yes he can support companions too with renewal for example, but it is a subtheme/benefit of him being a supporter. so his passive seems only fit with the nature look he has going for him, but with his whole kit of abilitys i feel it has nothing in common. he is not a companion focused frame in the first place. since his ability combo so much i would have loved maybe something to support or incentivice that. give him like a combo counter. if you cast another ability in a x secounds time frame (maybe like 5-10 secounds?) he gets bonus range/efficiency/damage/duration on his other abiilites after that. these would not have to be broken buffs, they could cap at a certain points. for exmaple like 25% max. it would not be much,but it would help his theme to combo support cast things. with the toggle not this might not be so much an thing.

another passive option would be some kind of aura, to let him be a bit of a paladin character. since this is a very common association with him. it could be some sort of shield dmg reduction to help him, since i feel this is the area he still has some issues. it could be charged by using his abilty, to get the combo and have some aura/paladin thing goinging.

there are a bunch of other options and a lot of people have probably given great ideas in rework topic for passives or abilitys for him, that could become his passive. so the kubow thing is nice, but feels very out of place. especially when the animal companions have currently the "no vaccum" problem, but even if that was adressed i still do not see the synergy from the passive to his current abiilty set. to that comes it is very highly situational and forces you to use a certain type of thing (and yes excal has the same with swords, but there it fits hit theme 100%,swords and slashing things in two, so in that case it works fine). not a fan of the kubrow/kavat thing with oberon. that said a lot of frames have passives that are more a thing that is there and does not help/synergyze or never gets used (like mag+hydroid). so in terms of that it is not a big deal, but i feel that should not be the meter we measure stuff. if a frames gets reworked/revisited/tweaked however you call it, their passive should be a thing you can use and is not an attemp to get things used by the playerbase tht are currently "underused", by not fixing the issues these items/equipment/companions have in the first place.... it feels like bandage passive XD

but overall i must say i like his rework so far very much. it seems like it is going in the right direction. he is fun to play. still needs some more testing in the higher content and i feel there will be some isues, but not many will play this far into the enemy levels and i think his scaling is better then before. especially with the light cc he has gotten form the radiation procs.

thx for reading.

fight on tenno =)

[Leqesai]

I just joined a game where we have 2 oberons with renewal build

 

414+458 armor and 81+92 health regen.

Yes it is a good thing... hahahaha

[RobWasHere]

I played Broberon in yesterday sortie and got lowest scores along my team. I think its mostly because low range of his abilities. Most of frame's powers cover large area with just Stretch equipped and Bro's carpet only cover a fraction of it. Without Natural Talent, I couldnt apply Iron Renewal to allies because they moved out HG at time wave hit them. At least even with somewhat low status chance, HG procced rad quite reliably.

Increase the base range please.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Like I keep saying, it is a good rework/ revisit, but the initial changes felt/ were rushed. Now if only they made his passive good again, the one he has now is just the one he had before and it sucks.

[Madame_Werewolf]

I would focus on editing his augments, now. I think Oberon is fine after this rework, but a better look on augments could be what might bring him to late endgame, who knows. 

And his passive is ok to me. I rarely use sentinels, I love using my Adarza and Huras even at high levels, so I think it's great. Maybe it won't be always useful, but just like Excal's one, it helps only with a specific set of equipment.

[Sziklamester]

19 hours ago, Phyrak said:

Looking forward to your thoughts on the rework and thoughts on additions written on page 1 :)

It seems the testing will be delayed because the newest patch seems killed my game with the (downloaded content is corrupted or something like that) and reinstalled the game but the game installation process stuck and cannot download the latest version of the game. 

[Proofter]

First time I saw new Oberon I was excited. His heals no longer work on all map he only creates area where people can get their healing (that is clearly a downside) but instead he no longer uses energy for maintaning the third ability, it only consume energy for healing and not for being active.That's the real reason why i was so glad and happy, Oberon could have some new space in game. If you reduce his ability duration you will get very long and weak heals but with augment mod Phenix's Renewal teamates could get for more than a minute ability to deny death once in minute and a half. I already thought that it will be a good idea go with Oberon on raids especialy The Law of Retribution. Still, with 12% duration, ability uses 8 energy per second for heals and it would be better for him reduce even more his heal power but make it consume less energy, so all 8 people wouldn't destroy his energy capacity (425 with prime mod) in 7 seconds. Almost 8, haha. Oberon could help inexperienced players, he could save them, give them small heal over time, so it wouldn't be realy noticeable and it will be fun for them to addapt to game. Nobody would be dying because of lack of experience. At least it would be not so often.

You made his Renewal consume energy for just being active back and now it's multiplied by number of teametes it's affecting. Why? I feel like i need to stop here and make myself a coffee, because i feel sad and angry. Mostly angry. And now I'm sitting here and sipping my scorching coffee which incomparable with burning rage that I taste towards your decision. It destroyed his healing abilities. Sure, you still can max duration and make very short in time healing areas and they will be short in distance because of that. So it encourage Oberon players be more selfish. It isn't good. It's a pure horror what it did with our best friend.

I ask... No, i beg you. Take a step back and think. We alredy have warframe with insane 100% heal, if people are hungry for hit points they will take Trinity. Make helping others encouraging, and I will gave you my deep gratitude.

Thank you for you time. Your honest Tenno.

[The_Grimmrock]

I still think the following changes should be made

In order:

smite

Gains full radiation damage, puncture is a bad damage type to have on a scaling skill due to how armor works against puncture, and armor is ludicrously powerful. projectiles do a flat amount of damage + % <scaling with powerstr> of the initial targets health on every orb, every orb that makes contact is guaranteed to proc rad and weaken.

 

Hallowed ground:

Drop the energy cost to 30. increase its base range to 18. increase the status chance base. it should hit 75% chance at 175% power.

his current reworked kit relies on this ability and its high cost is killing any hope of energy sustain

*alternatively, give minor energy back for kills on enemies in HG for its duration and keep the cost the same.

*I suggested this on Reddit but let me do it here as well:

Visually:: Give it a spawning affect much like frosts 2 where instead of ice, it summons either the new or old grass from earth. we cant see it right now. give it some vertical visual space so we can. this is especially important as we need allies to see where it is, and to be able to see if an enemy is on it now. we currently have an INCREDIBLY hard time seeing what we're doing. this should not be the worlds most difficult change.

 

Renewal:

stated change to make it toggle. no further request < for now> 

 

Reckoning:

increase base range to 18. reckoning should always scale the same as Hallowed ground as they depend on one another now.

Health orb chance on enemies hit.

armor reduction should now match frosts on avalanche, or exceed it, they do the same thing now, but avalanche doesn't need a target on Icy impedance to work.

Oberon should not have to do twice the work or more for the same affect. requiring additional skill to make get the full value of an ability should be fore a massive benefit. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Grimmboski
HG could be too powerful if it gave back the % armor and had a higher rad proc, so removed the % armor.

[Guest]

1- Smite is fine in the current state.  It had flat unscaling damage before and was the best elemental 1 in the game, arguably better than volt's shock.  Now it's the same flat damage, + a minor scaling component.  The procs it does have pretty much always been there, and it works great.

2 - Hallowed Ground needs to have it's shape changed.  The old HG rectangle was changed because it was "cumbersome."  The new HG arc is MORE cumbersome, and covers less area over all.  As is, adding range doesn't help you be a back line support because all the bonus coverage you get is BEHIND you.  On the front lines, not adding range doesn't let you buff back-line allies since there's no HG behind you.  You need 235% range to have full 360 degree coverage, with no sliver of missed buf%&amp;^e directly behind you.  That much range tanks your strength, which oberon very much needs if he's to be on the front lines.  He's literally better off turning around 180 degrees and casting a second 100% range HG, rather than trying to spec into a 360 degree HG.  It needs to be a different shape all together: either a full circle from the get go, with range directly affecting the radius, or an ellipse with oberon on a foci point (would actually be better for back line support and for targeting choke points at range).  As an added effect, enemies killed while on HG should grant a small small amount of energy to allies within 5-10m of the enemy, affected by range.  Otherwise, there's honestly no reason to recast HG once you have your renewal armor buff up on everyone, since it persists so long as you have energy.  In fact, casting HG while channeling 4 renewals (8 if you're in a raid) just makes it harder to maintain the renewal buffs.  HG also needs to be more visible, perhaps add the lit-edge effect from Lua pressure plates to the HG.

3 - Renewal is a lot better with the channel change, but it now completely cripples oberon's energy economy, which was already a bit of a problem for him.  The base 3 energy drain per target should be removed since it unnecessarily punishes oberon for being partied or in a raid compared to other healers who have no target count costs.  He can tank his range and buff only himself, and energy drain is no problem.  Put him in a 4 man group and have him keep everyone buffed at all times and it's a burden.  Put him in an 8 man raid and it's nearly impossible for him to do the job well.  It's enough to charge oberon whenever a target is getting healed or for buff maintenance.  There's no need to tax him twice.  Pick one.  The synergy with HG is fine so long as you fix his energy economy enough for him to keep spreading HG everywhere.   Alternatively, allow the synergy check to come just from oberon being on HG, not from the target allies themselves.  If oberon is on HG, all targets get the armor bonus.

4 - Reckoning is a bit stronger, and armor stripping is reliant on HG being cast first.  As such, it's only an improvement if there's sufficient energy to cast HG.  Fixing his energy economy would do that.  Other than that, the health orb dynamic should behave like pilfering swarm, such that enemies tagged by the ability have a chance to drop health orbs.  It should not rely on a reckoning kill to get health orbs, since most of the time, as a support frame with relatively weak damage, oberon won't be getting the killing blows.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Guest

[NightmareT12]

You know what's the problem? Player feedback. People don't have a clue on what to do with him. The fact one of the most popular opinions for example is to make Hallowed Ground behave like Chroma's Elemental Ward should be enough to raise an eyebrow. Then DE is trying to read, for once, on what we ask, and this weird thing pops up.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. All the abilities before were fine conceptually, they only needed minor things -- better scaling (damage was ridicolous, HG range was really low), and some QoL tweaks (health not stopping at max, renewal orbs traveling faster so it could reach farther away allies more easily). The change from % armor yo flat armor is a better move in the end too, but perhaps it should have stayed on HG? Reckoning and Smite are on the right path, but they still need further looks at what they deliver. And the damn armor value that needs to go up.

 

Of course though, it won't be the more popular opinion. And I certainly don't expect them to change it back. Energy hungry Oberon will now be even more energy hungry. *sigh*

Edited April 28, 2017 by NightmareT12

[Proofter]

I still think % armor won't be good. Strong warframes will get stronger and weaker ones will take less from it. I see Oberon supporting weak warframes, make them more relevant with constant amount of armor gain.

I will not lose my hope and will do everything to protect potential of this warframe.

[Windy_Wind]

there are only a few more thing I want is making his 4th health drop on HIT instead of on Kill. His 4th barely kill anything and it needs to be changed that way. Another thing is increasing his range for both 2nd and 4th ability, they are too short for being actually useful

[NightmareT12]

13 minutes ago, Proofter said:

I still think % armor won't be good. Strong warframes will get stronger and weaker ones will take less from it. I see Oberon supporting weak warframes, make them more relevant with constant amount of armor gain.

I will not lose my hope and will do everything to protect potential of this warframe.

I did say that the armor change was good though, perhaps my wording isn't good enough :P

Edited April 28, 2017 by NightmareT12

[nameomnz]

The latest hotfix(20.3.1) has solved some of Oberon's problems but not completely.

I'll left other problem for someone else to address, But I want to talk about his Augments mainly..

Hallowed Eruption: 

This augment is already pretty bad because damage is not good and the proc is inconsistence, But the new Hallowed ground has made this augment completely pointless and need to be change.

My idea: Enemy killed on hallowed ground has high chance of dropping health orb.

Phoenix Renewal:

The hotfix 20.3.1 has made this augment perfectly usable but 90 second cooldown is stupid. It's like waiting to activate focus to recieve that 5 second of invincibility and you have to wait 90 second to use it again when you are getting annihilated from left and right.

My idea: Reduce the cooldown to 15-20 second is fine or make it instantly revive downed ally, Oberon's 20% of energy will be consumed base on the amount of ally revived.

Note:Make it has phoenix reborn like effect when it triggered. So it wll be more clear rather than a simple textbox.

 

But I'm sure everyone has their own suggestion, So let me know what you would do with his augments.

[Hemmo67]

i actually like your idea for phoenix renewal o_o

praise be all hope is not lost on forum dwellers =D

[Music4Therapy]

When he is a caster with a base energy pool of 100, and combo-reliant casters such as Octavia, Nidus, Saryn, and Limbo have energy reduction/regen in their kits to make them work and/or much higher base energy? Please, explain to me why Oberon shouldn't have an energy gain mechanic and why being shot should be his only legitimate source of energy gain when his combos require absurd amounts of energy to use.

 

EDIT: Its moronic that Rage is "required". It doesn't even work in late game due to 1-shots and his lack of an energy mechanic is what is holding him back now as a frame.

 

Getting kills on his Hallowed Ground should grant energy, very similar to Limbo and getting energy for enemies that die in the Rift.

Words of Wisdom:

Quote

He has a base energy pool of 100 and is an ability spammer. I don't care if DE doubles his base energy pool with his prime variant, his 2-4-3 combo ALONE has a cost of 175.

Quote

Oberon is heavily reliant on using a stationary, high cost ability in order for his kit to work. He also lacks the durability to truly benefit from Rage in lategame scenarios to sustain his energy pool so that he can not only use the combos in his kit (Hallowed Ground followed by Reckoning then Renewal alone costs 175 energy before efficiency mods) but to upkeep the steep energy drain cost required to heal himself and allies, completely ignoring the fact he has only 100 base energy. Only true tanks like Chroma, Wukong, Inaros, Nidus, etc... really can consistently benefit from Rage in late game content.

Not only that, but he needs range so that his synergies work consistently, strength and duration so that his synergies are strong and last a decent amount of time, and efficiency because he has no way of gaining or reducing energy costs in his kit. Where do we fit survivability mods, rage, and the required Natural Talent due to his absurdly long cast time on Reckoning?

His kit relies *heavily* on the synergies within it in order to work, and Zenurik doesn't work while channeling Renewal, which is a very important part of his kit.

This all is WHY he needs energy regen and/or cost reduction built into his kit. He is extremely reliant on comboing his abilities together to make them work, similar to Limbo and Nidus.

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Proofter]

Well. Now I'm clearly confused. According to the desrciption of Renewal it uses 3 energy per target and I thoght it means that every target consume 3 energy every second for having Oberon's buff, but it's not. It all works almost just like i wished, his ability now drains energy while active accordingly your set of mods and have no time limits (only limits are your energy capacity). So, it's cool. I realy like it and I think you did it! 

Look, I'm realy sorry for unjustified claims, but turns out you finaly made Oberon realy good and inrtesting warframe! Sorry for making this confusion at start, but I realy need you to know that THIS Oberon is realy nice, great and astoundigly perfect in my opinion. Thank you.

P.S. Time to save some tenno on The Law of Retribution :)

Edited April 28, 2017 by Proofter

[Hypernaut1]

So it feels more like I'm buffing the skill when I cast reckoning instead of making it whole.

[Elvangreen]

Please show me volts means of energy production.

[Hemmo67]

because 26 other frames use it too