Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[ashrah]

its not just case of oberon 70% of things needs rework from ground...what we have now...u wait expect something to be good and wen come out its very small change its pure distracion.. no real concept game is going in MT way take what u can pllayer base going down....for 5 years ppl build  empire and game is still not half done

[LycanPT]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Used to feel the same way until I saw how amazing the Kavat precepts were. Red crits in the millions when Cat's Eye is up, which is quite often, and using Oberon I don't really worry too much about the pet dying, like if it does I have like 4 1/2minutes to get to it with my build because his 3. Just wish the health orb generation was more consistent, because that would eliminate the need to even worry about reviving it due to health orbs reviving pets. He'd be the go-to pet frame, which fits the druid side of his kit.

yeah cat's eye is cool, but that's pretty much the only thing a pet brings to the table, meanwhile they don't attack/get stuck in places, die randomly, I mean you would expect a pet to be more proactive, like targetting with CC or damage priority targets (always good when your pet gets smart randomly and blows that nullie up, or CC the capture target), maybe even help you tank some projectiles if they are close to you, I mean if your pet was consistent in helping you it would be a big plus, I mean for frame directed buff sentinels are usually more useful

Edited April 27, 2017 by LycanPT

[LordMazulia]

Just now, JSharpie said:

I don't find being locked into an animation fun.

Locked in for how long, a second? Less then a second? There are abilities that cast just as long, as well as longer. If it takes a second to ruin your fun, then Reckoning isn't even the problem. Besides, nothing is stopping you from using Natural Talent if it bothers you so much.

[Rekkou]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

Viability can go out the window if it isn't fun.

Yeah, yeah i know what you consider fun. Another novelty exalted melee even though there is already a weapon you can simply equip to get the melee you want and therefore wasting an ability slot for another melee when you can actually have 4 abilities with different function and purposes.

[heisthex]

Even Oberon stats like energy pool need to tweaked, he is a caster with very small energy pool that needs so many Duration/Range/Strength mods.

[RistN]

5 hours ago, Aarnwulf said:

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. However the theorycrafters want to slice it, and complain about it not being good enough, there were eleven revives needed in that mission, and ZERO needed for Oberon. He did a respectable 19% of the damage, in addition to having good utility and crowd control. Obviously, the other frames were all to squishy to actually heal in time, but Oberon himself is now viable there. Before, he was not.

I would interpret this in other way... Maybe you were the one that was responsible for you're teammates e deaths(just guessing) . Im talking about radiation procs that you were causing all the time... I think radiation proc is very bad, in high lvl missions in particular,  cause you have high lvl enemies shooting at each other one secound than shooting at you the other. It makes battlefield  very unpredictable surrounding and can cause more harm than  good.Hyeka, Sapping osprey, Napalms, Bombards shooting all over place... That's not good.  I guess we are going to see this a lot in Sortie and Kuva Flood missions next few days with people testing reworked Oberon. 

[Music4Therapy]

4 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Yeah, yeah i know what you consider fun. Another novelty exalted melee even though there is already a weapon you can simply equip to get the melee you want and therefore wasting an ability slot for another melee when you can actually have 4 abilities with different function and purposes.

LOL someone called him out on it. Brilliant.

56 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Reckoning, This is the only ability that i feel doesn't need much change. But it'll be better if the health orb drops uses a mechanic that doesn't rely on killing enemies with Reckoning. Like enemies affected by Reckoning have higher chance to drop health orb. Or change the healing mechanic into something new like. After being smashed to the ground, reckoning will heal small amount of health within 3-5 m radius of the enemies. 

I'd like to emphasis the importance of health orbs. If you indeed use a Kavat/Kubrow to benefit from Oberon's passive, which I highly suggest, then you will find it VERY easy to keep your pet from dying as Oberon. With 3 heals your pet and raises your pet's bleedout timer (my build is a balanced build with high eff but still pushes the revive timer to over 4 minutes) and to top that off, there is a mechanic not many players know about because most players use Sentinels: Health Orbs instantly revive pets. If Oberon were to be able to consistently supply health orbs by no longer requiring Reckoning to land the killing blow but instead giving us a timer akin to "After hitting enemy with Reckoning, it has a chance to drop a health orb for the next X seconds" it would be amazing and allow him to make use of Kavats and Kubrows without worrying about a lot of the maintenance that comes along with it.

[Volinus7]

12 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

The miter and pantera were brought up to par...

Par with? Hek? Tigris? Not only zero context but you tried to derail your own topic lol.

"Keep up" means all items must be taken into consideration at the same time on each balancing. Fix 2 weapons while a ton of fodders lying around and release a dozen of weapons per year is definitely not how to keep up with balancing.

[MegpoidBeetle]

Well, my 5-formaed most beloved frame finally got the "rework" that he deserves.....or is it really a rework? Let's have a quick go-through with each of the reworked abilities.

1. Smite - Ok, I need to know the mathematician who was the genius that thought it'd be a good idea that the orb's damage scale off enemies health ONLY as well as being SPLIT individually among each orbs. There's no flat damage, the orb's damage scales off a fixed value of 20%. Previously you can cast Smite into a group of low level mooks and the orbs can take care of the lesser mooks around the target, as the orbs have their own damage values that are affected by power strength. Now, you caused the orbs to only inflict damage based on initial target's health only, what will you get?

That's right, it can't even kill a single Level 1 Butcher. LEVEL. 1. BUTCHER. (Unless of course, you cast it on a target with a higher health than the lesser mooks). Point being, this is an elemental first ability, along with Fireball, Shock, Freeze and Spore. Taking out small fry should NOT be a problem, but now it is. Prior to the rework you can cast Smite and the orb can potentially kill lower-level enemies, but now it doesn't. So from my understanding the math behind the damage of the orbs are basically:

Initial target health x 0.2 / Number of orbs= Orb damage,  

Instead, combine it with the previous version of Smite (Level 3 Smite will be used in the calculation)

(150 x Power Strength)+(Initial target health x 0.2 / Number of orbs) = Orb damage

NOW it seems more capable of doing some damage.

 

2. Hallowed Ground - What's up with the effects? I could've sworn @[DE]Rebecca said in Prime Time the effects weren't finalized, so I had the idea it'll look better than that, maybe something like holy gas like thingies emanating from the ground, kinda like using Tranquil Walk of Peace in Dark Souls. And from what I noticed, it no longer gives that percentage armor buff. Tested this with a level 50 butcher and it dealt the same amount of damage in or out of Hallowed Ground. May I ask why? Sure, Iron Renewal gives flat armor buff and that's soooo much better than Hallowed Ground's armor buff, but why couldn't you let these two stack? I'll discuss more on its improvement when I comment on Renewal. For this ability on its own, personally it should've been turned into a mobile ability, since it kinda makes sense from some perspective as to why Eximus units have their damaging aura.

 

3. Renewal - Oh boy, this is possibly the worst contender on the list. To sum it up, its range hit a ridiculously hard nerf. It's no longer infinite range, and the devs essentially turned this into a lower-tier Blessing. The infinite range was one of the redeeming qualities of old Renewal. It might seem like a small deal to some players, but for me, it's kind of a big deal. I'm sort of a team player. Every time I play as Oberon I will fill out every possible role (damage, CC, tank, healing, support, utility), and so keeping my teammates health in check is quite a priority. If my teammates are near-death or are running out of time on their bleedout timer, Renewal's infinite range could save them just in the nick of time, especially when it extends bleedout timer. 

Initially I thought the range on the ability meant that its wave will extend infinitely from that range, but after testing it, I found that to not be the case. Seems that the range given is the most it will travel. Thanks to @LunarEdge7 for testing this with me. My suggestion for Renewal is to return to its old travelling orb animation. Instead of being absorbed by the player, it will detect if the player is in range and then "detonate", starting the healing process right away.

Also, stripping Hallowed Ground's armor buff just so these two ability can synergize was downright a terrible idea, as I've stated, why not just let it stack? How bout let the old armor buff stay alongside Iron Renewal and let it go:

Currently: 

Total armor = (Base armor x Steel Fiber) + Iron Renewal

New:

If only Hallowed Ground is used: Total armor = [(Base armor x Steel Fiber)] x Hallowed Ground x Power Strength

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground: Total armor = [(Base armor + Iron Renewal) x Steel Fiber ] x Hallowed Ground x Power Strength

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground but Hallowed Ground expires: Total armor = (Base armor + Iron Renewal) x Steel Fiber

This would encourage player more to use Iron Renewal more often. Let's say we are to use Oberon's armor in this calculation.(150 armor, rank 9 Transient Fortitude, rank 10 Steel Fiber):

If only Hallowed Ground is used: Total armor = 150 x [1 + 1.3 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 360

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground (Apply Iron Renewal 300 flat armor buff): Total armor = 450 x [1 + 1.3 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 1080

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground but Hallowed Ground expires: Total armor = 450 x [1 + 1.3] = 1035

For squishy frames if they have like 15 armor (assuming they don't use Steel Fiber):

If only Hallowed Ground is used: Total armor = 15 x [1 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 19.5

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground (Apply Iron Renewal 300 flat armor buff): Total armor = 315 x [1 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 409.5

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground but Hallowed Ground expires: Total armor = 315

 Definitely helps squishier frame to last longer as well as turn Oberon into a potential tank. Math checks out! But my calculation may be wrong. Also it'd be a good idea to buff Iron Renewal's base duration.

 

4. Reckoning - This ability is still pretty fine, doesn't seem like there's any nerf done to it. I don't think the blind is there anymore, but it doesn't matter since it's barely of any help. The Reckoning buff is a welcome addition. The armor stripping is okay I guess, however it's not a better alternative to just using a weapon with high Corrosive damage and status chance considering the enemies need to be within Hallowed Ground as well as multiple casts for complete armor removal, so 95% of the time it won't be worth it.

The health orb should not drop not from a Reckoning kill, but from killing an enemy within the irradiated duration after being hit by Reckoning.

 

Passive - After being stuck with that annoying turning wildlife to your side for a limited amount of time, I'LL TAKE ANYTHING OVER THAT. Is this passive good? Not for sentinel users. But it sure as heck is better than the previous one.

Also, if the devs are to make his ability synergize, the least they could do is buff some of the base stats. If you're gonna be having us casting abilities constantly for the synergy to kick in, buff the base energy pool and also his base armor too, unless you guys are saving it for the Prime version ;) which I hope is the next one.

 

Tl;dr to sum up how the rework is

+ Faster casting animation for Renewal

+ Wider range for Hallowed Ground as well as higher DoT with chance to proc

+ Better passive

+ Reckoning deals more damage to radiated enemies and can remove enemy armor within Hallowed Ground

- Base stats are still poor

- Smite's orb is ridiculously weaker and it seems situational when it comes to killing enemies

- Hallowed Ground's armor buff is removed

- Renewal is no longer infinite range, so if you're more than 40m away from me and you go down, don't expect Renewal to extend your timer in time.

- Iron Renewal base duration is low (20 seconds? C'mon I have to use two abilities to get that mediocre flat armor buff, at least give us 30-40 seconds)

- Need max power strength and multiple casts of Reckoning to completely strip away enemy armor

 

As an avid Oberon player for more than 2 years, I say he still needs more attention and a lil adjustments here and there. You can do better than that, devs.

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by GiraffaYandereBeetle
Dang laptop posted it before I could finish it.

[Guest]

Add the vertical glowing edge effect from LUA pressure plates to the hallowed ground so that you can actually see where it is.  You could make it outline the area or better yet make it slowly ripple across the surface.  As is, HG may as well be invisible.  But when you CAN see it, it looks like toxic waste - not exactly "hallowed".

for reference:  the plate the player is on, and the plate to the right have a glowing edge effect.

[vladprim02]

maybe. but i aggre to you

[RunningTree3]

Yes! Purifying holy beams of light!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Aarnwulf said:

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. However the theorycrafters want to slice it, and complain about it not being good enough, there were eleven revives needed in that mission, and ZERO needed for Oberon. He did a respectable 19% of the damage, in addition to having good utility and crowd control. Obviously, the other frames were all to squishy to actually heal in time, but Oberon himself is now viable there. Before, he was not.

19 revives is a lot when you have a healer who can give you 400 armor while knocking all the enemies on their butts...

[Praxxor]

The visuals aren't supposed to be like this at all, I think it's confirmed to be bugged at this point.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, RistN said:

I would interpret this in other way... Maybe you were the one that was responsible for you're teammates e deaths(just guessing) . Im talking about radiation procs that you were causing all the time... I think radiation proc is very bad, in high lvl missions in particular,  cause you have high lvl enemies shooting at each other one secound than shooting at you the other. It makes battlefield  very unpredictable surrounding and can cause more harm than  good.Hyeka, Sapping osprey, Napalms, Bombards shooting all over place... That's not good.  I guess we are going to see this a lot in Sortie and Kuva Flood missions next few days with people testing reworked Oberon. 

The only consistent benefit rad procs provide is through shutting down ancient and eximus auras, removing buffs from enemies and making them easier to CC and kill.  It can be very necessary, but is not at all reliable for managing a battle field.

[Phyrak]

21 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Par with? Hek? Tigris? Not only zero context but you tried to derail your own topic lol.

"Keep up" means all items must be taken into consideration at the same time on each balancing. Fix 2 weapons while a ton of fodders lying around and release a dozen of weapons per year is definitely not how to keep up with balancing.

Factor of things coming to par

Obe moved up - though, he needs a little more as what this thread was about

Teiring is always a thing with weapons. Same as frames.

Garbage tier as Oberon was called in the past should never be a thing for frames. For weapons, not so much

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Phyrak said:

100% orb drop?

Maybe burst of healing on foes killed?

Yeah but orbs are functional outside of just healing.  They trigger mods and arcanes as well, and having them supplied consistently opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of builds.  100% drop chance would be excessive if it were to behave like Pilfering Swarm.  You'd be swimming in orbs.  However, if it were left at "on kill", then 100% wouldn't be enough for end game, given how the ability scales and deals damage.

[Phazelok]

I wonder why they didn't add the cooldown reduction for pets, they mentioned it in the last stream. Would've been interesting.

[Vanrythzx]

i can't even see a difference lmao

[Hemmo67]

1 minute ago, Phazelok said:

I wonder why they didn't add the cooldown reduction for pets, they mentioned it in the last stream. Would've been interesting.

take half CD off cats eye and you have permament base crit and dmg buff

[Volinus7]

"To be tiered or not to be tiered, that's the question"

-Hamlet-

[NeonNemesis]

9 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

DE has repeatedly made changes to reduce map-wide team placement strategy, as we saw with Tenno Affinity and the Blessing range nerf (and Renewal now). As a team you're supposed to stay near people, and having something that heals over infinite distance is just making healing a non-team-based action, when it should involve people who need healing actually looking out for it, and the healer themselves actually making an effort to move with their teammates.

Just about every person I've ever heard praising old Oberon praised him as a "Jack of all Trades", not the best at anything but ok at a few different things. Saying that Blessing beats Oberon's healing and makes him useless is like comparing apples to oranges, because Oberon has more than just healing, while Trinity has healing/restorative support as a major focus. He's supposed to be outclassed here.

That doesn't even make any sense, having something that heals your TEAMMATES over infinite range is something non-team-based? Are you saying then that when Swat teams are to invade places with hostages and the sniper is on top o the roof a few building away he is not cooperating with the team? If someone stays back fighting a group of enemies while the others escort the hostage to extraction and tell him to retreat when thei are close then its not cooperation and he is undeserving of support? And BTW this is Oberon we're talking about which is considered by the majority of the players as one of if not the worst frame in the game even with his aparently broken healing because it has infinite range... 

Also there is a huge diference between being outclassed and being completly useless when compared to, those are the situations between old renewall and the new renewal. In the old one it was outclassed by Bless because it was a HoT, had travel time and healed less, it's only advantage was the infinite range. Was it a reason to pick him over Trinity? the Trials and Kavor events don't think so.

Also you are completly ignoring that Trinity's kit isn't just Heal, it has 2 heals, 1 of them acts as CC as well, it has energy restoration built in her kit damage reflection and Blessing which is new renewal with everything it has maxed to the top.

[Phyrak]

12 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Yeah but orbs are functional outside of just healing.  They trigger mods and arcanes as well, and having them supplied consistently opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of builds.  100% drop chance would be excessive if it were to behave like Pilfering Swarm.  You'd be swimming in orbs.  However, if it were left at "on kill", then 100% wouldn't be enough for end game, given how the ability scales and deals damage.

I'm down for whatever works best :P

Just now, Volinus7 said:

"To be tiered or not to be tiered, that's the question"

-Hamlet-

Recovering from a cold doesn't bode well for ones language XD

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Phyrak said:

Part of that factor comes from there being no change in modding in the last 3 years...

Mods need a 3.0 to give a bit more freedom and change to modding - but that is another discussion for another time...

I don't see that at all as a factor of the modding system.  Those frames were built to be a 4 button sequence on repeat, with everything tying together perfectly.  There's only 1, maybe 2 ways to build them, based solely on how fast you want to do a mission and whether or not you want to use energy plates.  Legacy frames like Ash, Rhino, Frost, Loki and Banshee are all able to be built for varying focuses and play styles.  Some more than others.  While some highly advanced builds manage to optimize their strengths with minimal trade offs, there will always be trade offs with those frames, by design.  While it's not a bad thing for a frame's kit to work together as much as Nidus's or Octavia's, the should always be some interesting modding dynamics that permit varied builds.  Oberon in particular is a frame that in theory should have almost nidus level synergy with the capacity to focus on certain abilities over others through mods.  However the way his abilities respond to mods makes it impossible to get them to work together as intended, much less optimally.

[Sziklamester]

4 hours ago, Phyrak said:

Thank you for the feedback :)

I'll adress it point by point because I don't have the tech skill as you do to separate it as I do all my writing on mobile XD

1. That was the plan

2. The aura would be a mobile hallowed ground just - nothing changed bar that of moving it and longer duration

3. Thank you :D

4. Marking foes sounds rad too

For example the halloweed ground could work similar like the chroma elemental wards. Other example banshee's sonar ability.