Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Elvangreen]

turn up particle effects for HG to see it.

[Phyrak]

Hey there,

The Oberon rework brought obe up but not enough for him to be useful in latter missions of the star chart.

I will address each ability and apply some scaling to give it longevity to bring obe into the late game or give some more purpose.

1. The scaling of smite is good but the projectiles that come from it are lacking due to how the scaling works.

Eg. Foe has 1k hp.
Smite has 20% hp scaling along with 10 projectiles.
20% of 1k is 200
200 between 10 projectiles is 20 additional damage.

20 damage is useless at latter levels...

Rather than splitting and splitting and splitting - apply that base to each projectile rather than dividing it.

Therefore, using the example above

Ability projectile damage + 200 damage scaled from 20% hp will be far more useful.

2. Hallowed ground has had a step up but still needs some tweaks considering the mobility of warframe.

Give it a 20m boost in range from 15m along with making is circle rather than cone.

A tap and hold function would do it the world of good to.

Tap - as it is now
Hold - apply a long lasting aura to self: perhaps 3-5x longer than the normal/tap hallowed ground

Both can be used in tandem.

3. Renewal has been given a buff in armour...which is a little iffy at times...and a nerf to range

I'll adress range first.

Let the range be increased by 50% if not a little more and speed be increased by power strength to get to allies quicker.

Armour.

The way the additional armour has been implemented seems off considering it is barely useful to either extremes - low and high armour but makes mid tier armour of some use but such frames are seen at occasion.

Much tweak to this.

Let it apply like a projective barrier - much like frost's ult augment.
Removing the timer from it for additional utility

2000 damage mitigation at base - scaled with strength mods.
For every foe that has a rad proc, gain 10% additional armour (potentially effected by str mods)

Eg. If 5 foes are rad proc'd when renewal is used on hallowed ground. 50% increase in armour bringing 2000 damage mitigation to 3000 damage mitigation

Whilst armour is 'worn' gain additional damage towards irradiated foes x% effected by str mods - this applies to abilities too

Gain x energy per second and y energy when you kill a rad proc'd foe

4. Gains additional damage from the armour of 3 in addition to the base damage increase against rad proc'd foes

When killing a foe with reckoning on hallowed ground - size and duration of hallowed ground is increased by x

Thank you for reading,

-Phyrak

[KotoKuraken]

Just now, Elvangreen said:

turn up particle effects for HG to see it.

I have a potato for a computer, so I run on all low settings. I should be able to see the carpet regardless of the settings

[Agent40Infinity]

This seems not that great theoretically, but have you actually tested it and seen as base stats? Because Theoretical and Practical are two very different things. 

For the first ability however, I think they could have left that the way it was originally seeing as I was using it yesterday 1 shotting grineer from ranges 40-50.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Agent40Infinity

[SamuraiPizza]

Okay so here's my experience. Granted this is only for a specific build, i.e. a melee tank build.

Rank 10 steel fiber and Vitality,

Rank 8 primed continuity, blind rage and transient fortitude,

Rank 7 narrow minded and primed flow

Power Drift

Rage to keep me topped off on energy

he gets about 850ish total armour. With that setup, he kind of works. Kind of. 

Using his 1 for minor CC, 2 and 3 for getting an armour buff and going full melee seems to yield results but the armour buff is not good enough to take him to chroma levels of tanking insanity. The negative efficiency hurts him, since the need to constantly keep casting renewal eats through his energy rather quickly. On top of all this, his 4 costs too much for what it does. So I'm relegated to using his 2 and 3, and since I cannot cast his 3 frequently enough due to efficiency concerns I put a life strike on my melee weapon and keep myself healed that way. Now if I have to go to these lengths to SOMEHOW make him work, does that not mean this isn't exactly the best rework? I mean Chroma works WAY better on a similar build, and if I wanna go team support with high range I lose too much duration, unless I replace with Constitution, and even them it's a little too low duration. 

Full disclosure: this is literally the first time I am playing him. Unsure if I'm doing anything wrong. 

 

I suppose this made him kinda playable? But this is certainly not his max potential...if that makes sense. 

[Aarnwulf]

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. However the theorycrafters want to slice it, and complain about it not being good enough, there were eleven revives needed in that mission, and ZERO needed for Oberon. He did a respectable 19% of the damage, in addition to having good utility and crowd control. Obviously, the other frames were all to squishy to actually heal in time, but Oberon himself is now viable there. Before, he was not.

[Hypernaut1]

with a name like hallowed ground, the effects should be awesome

[Music4Therapy]

8 minutes ago, thewhitepanda1205 said:

This armor buff isn't there to make tanky frames, tankier. It is there to make squishy frames less squishy by giving them over 40% More Damage Reduction.

Oberon is a good armor buffer now.

I understand what you are saying. The problem is, I feel like this further pushed him into the generalist position we continuously hear about. There are frames that can raise the DR of other frames, tanky or not, by 75-95%. I feel a flat % of DR would have been for the best for that reason, and having it be capped at 75%, similar to Trinity, so he can be more competitive.

I understand your frustration with this part though. A better buff than armor stripping would probably have been to make health orbs spawn on hit or what you suggested.

Sweet :]

They fulfill my own purposes for them.

Smite-CC with Some added Damage Reduction for all squad members

Hallowed Ground-Strips Procs and is good for area denial

Renewal: Great 5 second heal of 840 health along with a 31 second, 320 armor buff with my build

Reckoning: CC Panic Button that like Renewal helps when things get harry. It gives me some breathing room, makes enemies easier to kill with partial armor strip, and makes them less likely to target me because of Rad Proc

I agree that Oberon has a great kit, that was never the problem though. The problem was his scaling, and I feel that what they did to change that wasn't enough and that the changes weren't in the right places. A flat % of DR would be better for scaling purposes, and so would having more consistant health orb drops so that our Kubrows/Kavats are viable in any situation that a sentinel would be in.

I agree with you about his 1s changes, however, Hallowed Ground's buffs did add some QoL through a lot more range.

Well, I've been part of the #OberonMasterRace for several months so I may be a bit biased, but I would say yes it was a success for at least some people including Oberon mains like me. With the armor buff from Renewal, I can now tank level 90 enemies. I already play Oberon a lot so I'm not sure how much more often that I could use him. I think that this rework was pretty good, but not perfect such as with [DE]'s handling of Reckoning's buff. I would wait before judging Smite and Reckoning to harshly though because they may get tweaked in the future.

I too am a huge fan of Oberon as well, and I appreciate your input.

 

[thewhitepanda1205]

5 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

The way the additional armour has been implemented seems off considering it is barely useful to either extremes - low and high armour but makes mid tier armour of some use but such frames are seen at occasion.

 

The buff is actually only useless to the really tanky frames.

It's amazing for low and mid armor frames.

Let's say you have 65 base armor. WIth that you would have about 17% Damage Reduction.

Now let's add the unmodified buff of 200 armor to it. With 265 armor, you now have 47% Damage Reduction.

You can't tell me that 30% more damage reduction is worthless.

Also, if you really want to push for an Icy Avalache kncok-off, then that energy regen from killing irradiated enemies must be big to appease the large population of Rage Oberon users including me.

13 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Gain x energy per second and y energy when you kill a rad proc'd foe

I don't like the buff change that you suggest. However, I do agree with your Smite, Hallowed ground, and Renewal Travel Time and Range Suggestions.

[Phyrak]

7 minutes ago, Agent40Infinity said:

This seems not that great theoretically, but have you actually tested it and seen as base stats? Because Theoretical and Practical are two very different things. 

For the first ability however, I think they could have left that the way it was originally seeing as I was using it yesterday 1 shotting grineer from ranges 40-50.

Yes, I have tested it

4 minutes ago, Aarnwulf said:

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. However the theorycrafters want to slice it, and complain about it not being good enough, there were eleven revives needed in that mission, and ZERO needed for Oberon. He did a respectable 19% of the damage, in addition to having good utility and crowd control. Obviously, the other frames were all to squishy to actually heal in time, but Oberon himself is now viable there. Before, he was not.

Aye

I do agree

There still feels a certain lack in his abilities - imo, the armour is one

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

question, does the armor debuff have diminishing returns?

[Phyrak]

1 minute ago, thewhitepanda1205 said:

The buff is actually only useless to the really tanky frames.

It's amazing for low and mid armor frames.

Let's say you have 65 base armor. WIth that you would have about 17% Damage Reduction.

Now let's add the unmodified buff of 200 armor to it. With 265 armor, you now have 47% Damage Reduction.

You can't tell me that 30% more damage reduction is worthless.

Also, if you really want to push for an Icy Avalache kncok-off, then that energy regen from killing irradiated enemies must be big to appease the large population of Rage Oberon users including me.

I don't like the buff change that you suggest. However, I do agree with your Smite, Hallowed ground, and Renewal Travel Time and Range Suggestions.

Much appreciated :)

The energy regen is there for the fact that obe has become more energy heavy as saryn did in her rework

[Aarnwulf]

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. Before the rework, he was just a giant liability to the squad on such a mission. -- In this particular run, queueing in as a PUG, he needed zero out of 11 revives, had zero deaths, did a respectable 19% of damage, and had good crowd control and utility.

I understand he will never be good enough for some players, by virtue of not being "the best" at any one thing. He is now viable as a contributing member of a squad into common, daily content in the lvl 50-100 range, where before he could not be useful.

[SamuraiPizza]

Just now, Aarnwulf said:

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. Before the rework, he was just a giant liability to the squad on such a mission. -- In this particular run, queueing in as a PUG, he needed zero out of 11 revives, had zero deaths, did a respectable 19% of damage, and had good crowd control and utility.

I understand he will never be good enough for some players, by virtue of not being "the best" at any one thing. He is now viable as a contributing member of a squad into common, daily content in the lvl 50-100 range, where before he could not be useful.

I'm interested in your build, sir.

[YagoXiten]

34 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

The thing is, Oberon's abilities don't fulfill their purpose.

You know why his 4 has the seemingly random effect of generating health orbs, right? Kubrows/Kavats are revived instantly upon picking one up. The fact that Reckoning requires to deal the killing blow in order to HAVE A CHANCE at creating the orb makes it not fulfill it's purpose. The correct way to buff this ability would have been forcing enemies hit by it for a set duration to have a chance to drop the orb.

The armor buff is okay at best considering flat armor falls off CONSIDERABLY after 300 armor. A frame with 300 armor has 50% DR. A frame with 600 has 66%.

His 1 and 3 changes were nothing spectacular,  either. Buffs? Sure, though there have been complaints about the range of his 3. Meaningful? No.

All this "rework" did was give him a few % more damage reduction and create synergy that contradicts who he is as a frame.

How SHOULD the rework have been? Instead of flat armor, they should have made it flat DR % similar to Trinity, Mirage, Mesa, etc... and they should have made the health orb generation from his 4 on hit rather than on kill. The issue with his kit is that it lacked scaling at consistency, the changes solved neither.

Oberon had many issues with his kit which were solved with this rework, and I am baffled as to why people are insisting otherwise. Smite is relatively unchanged and remains a fun and effective ability. Hallowed Ground has a purpose and scales into late game via the Radiation proc--which I remind you is very effective CC, works with Condition Overload, and disables the Ancient Healer aura.  Renewal no longer shuts off prematurely, it is more reliable for his allies, it has synergy with both himself and other Warframes, and it makes him infinitely more durable than he previously was. And finally, Reckoning still acts as a potent nuke on low level missions and a fine panic button source of CC against the toughest of content.

The only thing that leaves significant room for improvement is the fact that, I agree on Reckoning's Health Orb generation. It is a feature of the ability that becomes rather useless against even mid tier enemies, and completely moot on end game content, not to mention the endlessly scaling challenge runs the community is so fond of.


Also, in the name of education: Armor has no diminishing returns or falloff. Every 3 points of armor increase your effective health by 1% of your base health.

With 1000 HP and 300 armor, you can take 2000 damage before being downed. This is an additional 3.33 effective health per each point of armor. With 600 armor, you have 3000 effective health. Once again, this is an additional 3.33 health per each point of armor.

Since both the health restoration and armor provided by Renewal scale with Power Strength, the durability it provides scales exponentially by investing in the stat. Damage reduction would be stronger, yes, but this is equally as effective in most cases, and more effective for allied Warframes that scale with armor, such as Frost or Rhino or Nezha. This also grants him synergy with allies, such as Trinity, who also grant damage reduction.

[ScribbleClash]

8 minutes ago, Aarnwulf said:

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. However the theorycrafters want to slice it, and complain about it not being good enough, there were eleven revives needed in that mission, and ZERO needed for Oberon. He did a respectable 19% of the damage, in addition to having good utility and crowd control. Obviously, the other frames were all to squishy to actually heal in time, but Oberon himself is now viable there. Before, he was not.

The ammounts of revives forebode that this may have been rather a playerskill difference than a powerdifference. Also, you may outdamage anyone with the right weapons, this is just not a good method to make prove for positive change.

[WhiteMarker]

I love the fact the scaling of smite made it so it can't even be used as a low-level nuke anymore.
Against level 10 Corpus the orbs do about 8 damage...

Sorry, but who thought this rework was fine and ready to get delivered?
Oberon is again at a bad spot. He does a lot of things, but can't do anything right...

[Kierlak]

14 minutes ago, Aarnwulf said:

Just ran Sortie II as Oberon. However the theorycrafters want to slice it, and complain about it not being good enough, there were eleven revives needed in that mission, and ZERO needed for Oberon. He did a respectable 19% of the damage, in addition to having good utility and crowd control. Obviously, the other frames were all to squishy to actually heal in time, but Oberon himself is now viable there. Before, he was not.

 

If I run a sortie as Hydroid, and get 100% of the damage and revive the other 3 people 25 times each, does that mean Hydroid needs to be nerfed?

[Buddhakingpen]

9 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Hey there,

The Oberon rework brought obe up but not enough for him to be useful in latter missions of the star chart.

I will address each ability and apply some scaling to give it longevity to bring obe into the late game or give some more purpose.

1. The scaling of smite is good but the projectiles that come from it are lacking due to how the scaling works.

Eg. Foe has 1k hp.
Smite has 20% hp scaling along with 10 projectiles.
20% of 1k is 200
200 between 10 projectiles is 20 additional damage.

20 damage is useless at latter levels...

Rather than splitting and splitting and splitting - apply that base to each projectile rather than dividing it.

Therefore, using the example above

Ability projectile damage + 200 damage scaled from 20% hp will be far more useful.

2. Hallowed ground has had a step up but still needs some tweaks considering the mobility of warframe.

Give it a 20m boost in range from 15m along with making is circle rather than cone.

A tap and hold function would do it the world of good to.

Tap - as it is now
Hold - apply a long lasting aura to self: perhaps 3-5x longer than the normal/tap hallowed ground

Both can be used in tandem.

3. Renewal has been given a buff in armour...which is a little iffy at times...and a nerf to range

I'll adress range first.

Let the range be increased by 50% if not a little more and speed be increased by power strength to get to allies quicker.

Armour.

The way the additional armour has been implemented seems off considering it is barely useful to either extremes - low and high armour but makes mid tier armour of some use but such frames are seen at occasion.

Much tweak to this.

Let it apply like a projective barrier - much like frost's ult augment.
Removing the timer from it for additional utility

2000 damage mitigation at base - scaled with strength mods.
For every foe that has a rad proc, gain 10% additional armour (potentially effected by str mods)

Eg. If 5 foes are rad proc'd when renewal is used on hallowed ground. 50% increase in armour bringing 2000 damage mitigation to 3000 damage mitigation

Whilst armour is 'worn' gain additional damage towards irradiated foes x% effected by str mods - this applies to abilities too

Gain x energy per second and y energy when you kill a rad proc'd foe

4. Gains additional damage from the armour of 3 in addition to the base damage increase against rad proc'd foes

When killing a foe with reckoning on hallowed ground - size and duration of hallowed ground is increased by x

Thank you for reading,

-Phyrak

I personally like the fact that its making you actually choose where you want oberons strengths and weaknesses to be. Thats how warframe SHOULD be. not "oh i can just dump all my mods into these one or two stats to maximize this frame"

Power strength- Do i want it positive so that i can get more cc, armor shredding, and armor? Or do i want it negative so that i can do more damage with smite? 

Power duration- Do i want it positive so that i can keep my 2 out longer, and have a longer armor buff without having to keep my heal ticking, or do i go negative duration so that my renewal ticks for a whole minute?

Range- Do i really need much range anymore? Do i care if my team gets heals? How large do i want my 2's to be?

If this system of checks and balances didnt exist, it would literally just be "dump power strength on him". He'll heal more, gain more armor, do more damage, shred more armor, and do more radiation procs. Then just add range to taste. 

Honestly i think they should do every frame like this. But thats just me. I'm a balance @#&*(. 

[Phyrak]

3 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

I personally like the fact that its making you actually choose where you want oberons strengths and weaknesses to be. Thats how warframe SHOULD be. not "oh i can just dump all my mods into these one or two stats to maximize this frame"

Power strength- Do i want it positive so that i can get more cc, armor shredding, and armor? Or do i want it negative so that i can do more damage with smite? 

Power duration- Do i want it positive so that i can keep my 2 out longer, and have a longer armor buff without having to keep my heal ticking, or do i go negative duration so that my renewal ticks for a whole minute?

Range- Do i really need much range anymore? Do i care if my team gets heals? How large do i want my 2's to be?

If this system of checks and balances didnt exist, it would literally just be "dump power strength on him". He'll heal more, gain more armor, do more damage, shred more armor, and do more radiation procs. Then just add range to taste. 

Honestly i think they should do every frame like this. But thats just me. I'm a balance @#&*(. 

Thank you :)

That was the aim

[PsiWarp]

7 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

I love the fact the scaling of smite made it so it can't even be used as a low-level nuke anymore.

Yeah it's weird. On one hand they made it so it scales with enemy level, but the damage is split across all orbs, so to really be able to nuke one guy you two have to be alone... in a horde-based game. On the other hand, on low levels the orbs don't do damage worth a damn, they just stagger, proc Puncture and occasionally a lucky Radiation.

Its damage scales, yet you won't find yourself regularly seeing Smite nuke. Before the orbs could at least clear trash mobs on low level, now it's just going to tickle them with procs.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Can't see it either on low settings. 

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Oberon had many issues with his kit which were solved with this rework, and I am baffled as to why people are insisting otherwise. Smite is relatively unchanged and remains a fun and effective ability. Hallowed Ground has a purpose and scales into late game via the Radiation proc--which I remind you is very effective CC, works with Condition Overload, and disables the Ancient Healer aura.  Renewal no longer shuts off prematurely, it is more reliable for his allies, it has synergy with both himself and other Warframes, and it makes him infinitely more durable than he previously was. And finally, Reckoning still acts as a potent nuke on low level missions and a fine panic button source of CC against the toughest of content.

In hindsight, I should have been more positive in my initial post. The change to his 3 allowing him to continue healing was awesome. In regards to his 2, though I like the range change I already am using his 1 and 4 to spread Radiation. I wish that there was another purpose his 2 served, the status effect immunity is great, but I feel he has so many ways to spread radiation in this kit the radiation from his 2 feels largely unnecessary. His 4 is one of the most underrated abilities in the game, a wide-AoE-blinding-radiation spreading-knockdown that can be cast in mid-air and doesn't require LoS. Its for that reason that I enjoy Oberon so much as a frame, I am a junky for frames that don't require LoS to CC such as him, Rhino, Volt, Frost, etc...

The only thing that leaves significant room for improvement is the fact that, I agree on Reckoning's Health Orb generation. It is a feature of the ability that becomes rather useless against even mid tier enemies, and completely moot on end game content, not to mention the endlessly scaling challenge runs the community is so fond of.

I'm glad we agree here, this is a change I've seeing many agree with.

Also, in the name of education: Armor has no diminishing returns or falloff. Every 3 points of armor increase your effective health by 1% of your base health.

With 1000 HP and 300 armor, you can take 2000 damage before being downed. This is an additional 3.33 effective health per each point of armor. With 600 armor, you have 3000 effective health. Once again, this is an additional 3.33 health per each point of armor.

Since both the health restoration and armor provided by Renewal scale with Power Strength, the durability it provides scales exponentially by investing in the stat. Damage reduction would be stronger, yes, but this is equally as effective in most cases, and more effective for allied Warframes that scale with armor, such as Frost or Rhino or Nezha. This also grants him synergy with allies, such as Trinity, who also grant damage reduction.

To this point, I was being misleading but not on purpose. What I should have said was, "It would require insane amounts of power strength to make this anywhere near equivalent to what other frames that provide a similar utility have to offer." As far as frames scaling with armor, many have periods of invincibility within said abilities that can be taken advantage of to great effect, such as Frost's Bubble or Rhino's Iron Skin. That said, I would say that a flat % of DR would scale better in most situations, and we should leave the Base Flat Armor increase niche to Ice Chroma, who would better fit that role than Oberon.

 

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, PsiWarp said:

Yeah it's weird. On one hand they made it so it scales with enemy level, but the damage is split across all orbs, so to really be able to nuke one guy you two have to be alone... in a horde-based game. On the other hand, on low levels the orbs don't do damage worth a damn, they just stagger, proc Puncture and occasionally a lucky Radiation.

Its damage scales, yet you won't find yourself regularly seeing Smite nuke. Before the orbs could at least clear trash mobs on low level, now it's just going to tickle them with procs.

I think one of the problems is the percentage isn't effected bei strength. So adding strength gives you more orbs, so the damage gets more and more split between those orbs.

In my opinion Nidus and Octavia, the two newest frames, do a way better job then Oberon.
Sure Octavia doesn't heal, and Nidus doesn't give armor. But just because Oberon can do both doesn mean, he has to be S#&$ at all of that...

I was happy to hear they wanted to rework him. I thought that even the tiniest change would be a buff. I was wrong.
The only thing I'm really happy about is the flat armor buff from Renewal+Hollowed Ground. But the duration is kinda... I don't know...

[Phyrak]

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

I think one of the problems is the percentage isn't effected bei strength. So adding strength gives you more orbs, so the damage gets more and more split between those orbs.

In my opinion Nidus and Octavia, the two newest frames, do a way better job then Oberon.
Sure Octavia doesn't heal, and Nidus doesn't give armor. But just because Oberon can do both doesn mean, he has to be S#&$ at all of that...

I was happy to hear they wanted to rework him. I thought that even the tiniest change would be a buff. I was wrong.
The only thing I'm really happy about is the flat armor buff from Renewal+Hollowed Ground. But the duration is kinda... I don't know...

Does the armour change above appease your hopes somewhat?

 

9 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Yeah it's weird. On one hand they made it so it scales with enemy level, but the damage is split across all orbs, so to really be able to nuke one guy you two have to be alone... in a horde-based game. On the other hand, on low levels the orbs don't do damage worth a damn, they just stagger, proc Puncture and occasionally a lucky Radiation.

Its damage scales, yet you won't find yourself regularly seeing Smite nuke. Before the orbs could at least clear trash mobs on low level, now it's just going to tickle them with procs.

Sided with the armour buffing against rad proc'd foes, does the changes made above fix that problem?