Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Netzwerkfehler]

I like that you can go for positive duration and negative duration to achieve 2 different approaches. The fact that the energy per second also scales with duration hurts the ability a lot. If you go for negative duration (transient + fleeting) you get an insane drain of 9+ e/s.

I know that toggled abilities scale with duration, but in this case it is really bad.

 

And why does the wave duration scale negatively with power strength? makes no sense to me

[Vafthrudnir]

I guess they are stockpiling reworks, the recent reworked frames need another look.

You may say that he's the mag for infested now.

Edited April 27, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Phyrak]

5 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

For example the halloweed ground could work similar like the chroma elemental wards. Other example banshee's sonar ability.

That's the plan with the movable hallowed ground - that being the hold mechanic

12 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

I don't see that at all as a factor of the modding system.  Those frames were built to be a 4 button sequence on repeat, with everything tying together perfectly.  There's only 1, maybe 2 ways to build them, based solely on how fast you want to do a mission and whether or not you want to use energy plates.  Legacy frames like Ash, Rhino, Frost, Loki and Banshee are all able to be built for varying focuses and play styles.  Some more than others.  While some highly advanced builds manage to optimize their strengths with minimal trade offs, there will always be trade offs with those frames, by design.  While it's not a bad thing for a frame's kit to work together as much as Nidus's or Octavia's, the should always be some interesting modding dynamics that permit varied builds.  Oberon in particular is a frame that in theory should have almost nidus level synergy with the capacity to focus on certain abilities over others through mods.  However the way his abilities respond to mods makes it impossible to get them to work together as intended, much less optimally.

I do agree

[Netzwerkfehler]

would be nice if you would keep the cc immunity from hallowed ground while renewal is active

[NightmareT12]

Smite simply needs more damage/further math tuning. Same to Reckoning damage value.

Hallowed Ground lost the armor buff and the incentive to stay on it. It should give players that stay on it a mild damage reduction that scaled on Power Strength (10-15% base, 30-45% max at 300% PS).

 

Renewal... I hate the wave and miss the old one. They only had to add an accleration to the orb that went out and go straight to the player in case it had any paths? I just can't heal people that are a bit far (note, not too far) anymore... :(

[Sziklamester]

I still not tested Oberon after the rework so I can tell more if I get home and tried him with the tweaks.

[Phazelok]

41 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

take half CD off cats eye and you have permament base crit and dmg buff

If i do that, i have 10 seconds CD, how's that permanent? Maybe i missed something. However, 50% reduction is too much anyway, i just thought on something like 20% which would result in a 16 seconds CD, nothing too big.

[Hemmo67]

cats eye lasts 10 seconds at max rank

and cd starts immediatly on cast, therefor permament cats eye

[Phyrak]

5 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

I still not tested Oberon after the rework so I can tell more if I get home and tried him with the tweaks.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the rework and thoughts on additions written on page 1 :)

[Kei-Inc.]

Note: This is coming from a player who has NEVER played Oberon. I just picked him up after he was revisited.

I think the changes are in the right direction and they do flow a bit better which is nice. Though, I found his 1 and his 4 does bugger all and it's his 2 and 3 that should be focused on. (Although his four is a good little bit of CC). 

The flat armour buff instead of a % is GREAT I really like that, although I'm not sure about the duration. I think, the way his abilities are, it has to work that way, but if his 2 and 3 were merged together, with renewal spreading in a circle outwards (much like Ember's ring of fire, but obviously, with much more range) and the armour buff stays active until the player walks off hallowed ground. Then 3 could be his 4 and his 4 could be something new. 

However, the armour debuff with his 4 is terrible and needs to be buffed or perhaps allow it to stack (I'm not sure if it does). 

I think Oberon is trying to do too many things at once and so is mediocre at best. Trinity heals better, many frames do more damage and Nidus, though he can't give armour to allies, does a better job of increasing his armour. If DE focused on his armour buff/debuff abilities, he could be quite useful. For example, in a squad you could have Oberon acting like a corrosive projection (so we could mod for other things) and CC and some damage mitigation (since more armour = more damage reduction). And with enemy armour scaling in the game, that could be very useful.

Finally (I'm just nitpicking now) I think the visual effects of hallowed ground isn't great, I think naturey things could have sprouted from the ground or something. 

Overall, not bad, not great, I think he still needs more buffing or a slight change to his abilities. I think it was a little rushed (since they spent much longer on Limbo) and I think they might be afraid of making him too OP as Limbo was. If he's going to be the next prime, I don't think I'd buy him, or go out of my way to farm him. Just do fissure missions and collect his parts - much like how he is farmed now.

[nameomnz]

To me Oberon is still pretty solid warframe, But rather disappointed.

I'm really happy that they add radiation proc on hallowed ground also make renewal a duration base Becasue that's all I want for Oberon.

If his smite and reckoning haven't change, I would have no problem at all. But they change them and they are not working as good as DE told us.

Kinda miss infinite range renewal tho. But his augment still needs some work. Especailly Pheonix Renewal goddammit reduce the cold down please.

Also Hallowed Eruption is already bad augment, this update make it completely pointless.

Edited April 27, 2017 by nameomnz

[Vanrythzx]

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Just about his 4... Oberon's kit synergizes VERY well with pets, his 3 heals them and can raise their bleed out timer to 4+ minutes. His passive buffs them. And, to top it all off, did you know picking up a health orb instantly revives a downed pet?

If his 4 were to be more consistent in generating health orbs it would significantly increase the viability of pets in late game for him by significantly lowering the maintenance required. They should make it to where enemies hit by his 4 have a chance to drop an orb rather than on kill.

i think his passive is completely trash, companions doing any dmg compared to a sentinel, that can one or two shot lv 50 enemies, utitliy is ok, but meh. 
 

[artemisfortune]

3 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

All that sarcasm and the only thing you show is how bad you are at this game.

You know what would have been better? Being able to lift a few enemies and control where they go. Slamming them down or slamming them into walls, other enemies, etc.

But no yeah I'm bad at the game because I don't like an ability that barely does anything unless I extensively set up a situation where it's useful, and my gun could have probably done it faster and better. God forbid we change the formula a little bit right? God forbid anyone suggest something different? And when they do lets make sure we tell them that they're bad and be as passive aggressive as we possibly can. That's the Tenno way, right? Right?

Edited April 27, 2017 by JSharpie

[Phazelok]

7 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

 

and cd starts immediatly on cast

No. I jumped into the game just to be sure. Buff lasts 10sec -> 20sec CD afterwards.

[RealisticName]

well I mean I agree with you about the abilities,

and he's not too good with fashion frame either 

[ScribbleClash]

52 minutes ago, Netzwerkfehler said:

And why does the wave duration scale negatively with power strength? makes no sense to me

It's not duration but the speed the wave spreads. Having it reach friendlies faster is beneficial.

[Sziklamester]

2 hours ago, JSharpie said:

I don't find being locked into an animation fun.

Faster animation than the Crush.

[LordMazulia]

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

You know what would have been better? Being able to lift a few enemies and control where they go. Slamming them down or slamming them into walls, other enemies, etc.

But no yeah I'm bad at the game because I don't like an ability that barely does anything unless I extensively set up a situation where it's useful, and my gun could have probably done it faster and better. God forbid we change the formula a little bit right? God forbid anyone suggest something different? And when they do lets make sure we tell them that they're bad and be as passive aggressive as we possibly can. That's the Tenno way, right? Right?

First of all, you haven't made a single suggestion about doing it differently. You've just been talking about how one ability isn't fun, then start acting sarcastic towards people calling you on it. It's very hard to take you seriously when you haven't even added anything practical to the conversation. And nobody is acting passively aggressive towards you.

Edited April 27, 2017 by LordMazulia

[Naftal]

They need to buff the Reckoning Armor reduction debuff to 50% base reduction or something. As it is I don't see any reason to use Oberon for any of the things he can do as something else can do everything much better.

Noob of all trades and not even decent at anything.

Oh and now Hallowing Ground is almost invisible for some reason.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, LordMazulia said:

First of all, you haven't made a single suggestion about doing it differently. You've just been talking about how one ability isn't fun, then start acting sarcastic towards people calling you on it. It's very hard to take you seriously when you haven't even added anything practical to the conversation. And nobody is acting passively aggressive towards you.

The irony is that in the post you quoted there lies a suggestion. I've posted a lot in a lot of different Oberon threads, with plenty of ideas. The common factor in a lot of them is they go straight number changes, not changing how the abilities work. Flat buffs are boring, and his kit is boring.

Smite should be castable on walls, as it has a ricochet effect.

Hallowed Ground should be a circle, not a cone. It's visual effects should also be altered, as it's hard to see.

Renewal is acting weird. I don't even want to touch that one. It's supposedly a toggle now but not really? I don't know. I'd have to mod specifically for it to find out what it actually does now.

Reckoning, as I've said, is a boring ability, and now a boring ability that doesn't kill anything. What fun. I've suggested making it a controlled and more interactive lift-and-slam ability. I've suggested scrapping it for an exalted mace and shield that would allow the some attacks in the combos and slide attacks to buff and heal allies. I've even suggested giving him an ability to buff allies with adaptive armor like Shadow Stalker/Sentient enemies have.

 

Now that I've "added to the conversation" lets take a look back at the responses I've gotten from me simply saying "I'll never understand why people like reckoning".

If you'll notice, they all take it quite personally. Now I understand. I take S#&$ to heart all the time, but just because I don't like something doesn't mean I'm A). Bad B). A bad person C). Don't know what I'm talking about or any other thing you can think of besides the fact that I just don't like the ability. And that's it. End of discussion on that part.

[Akimbo]

I've always like Oberon. There I said it. I know a lot of people dislike him without even playing him because everyone says he's rubbish. There are reasons for this.

His rework felt like a step in the right direction, but there are still some problems:

1) Smite is still too weak, the scaling doesn't work as one would imagine and seems to be splitting the scaling damage between all the bolts, making it worthless.

2) Hallowed ground should just be a 360 degree ability all the time. The graphic for it looks unfinished and the area Hallowed ground is affecting is hard to make out. It also doesn't last long enough or have enough default range, but the main issue for this ability will be discussed at the end.

3) Renewal ... actually seems okay? However it still suffers from the problem that plagues Oberon in general...more at the end.

4) As we know, straight up damage abilities, even with added damage from radiation procs in Oberon's case, cap out by the end of the starchart unless they have some kind of % or endless scaling - Reckoning doesn't. This means that their potential usually lays in what else the ability can do. Reckoning doesn't have enough range by default, meaning range increasing mods aren't very effective. This is a symptom of...

Jack of all Trades master of none.

To be effective Oberon needs:

Duration: He buffs. Therefore he needs duration to keep those buffs up. The durations on his abilities aren't long enough so you need a lot of power duration to make them viable.

Efficiency: Outside of defence missions and other "static" missions, Oberon will need to regularly recast his abilities in order to keep buffs up on the move. Without at least streamline this simply isn't practical. Fleeting expertise is basically unusable because the duration reduction cripples Oberon's buffing.

Range: The range on Oberon's abilities (except Renewal) are too short. This means to be buffing your allies (especially in public games) you're going to need a lot of range to make up for the poor default range of his abilities.

Power Strength: Oberon is a buff archetype. To have buffs which actually make a difference, you will need at least a positive power strength (so, 100%+ after all mods). However because you also need range (Overextended reduces power strength) and duration (Transient Fortitude reduces power duration) Oberon really struggles to maintain a positive power strength without sacrificing (heavily) another stat. Which as mentioned above are ALL required to make Oberon really work in his role.

What do I think would help?

I'll look at abilities first and how I feel their base mechanic and/or attributes should look like.

1) Smite - The % scaling should be a factor of the initial targets health and scale EVERY bolt by that amount.

2) Hallowed Ground - The ability should always be 360 degrees. The base range should be 20m (up from 15m) radius and the base duration should be 30 seconds (up from 20 seconds). The edge / area that the ability covers should be much more obvious. The base status chance should be 40% (up from 15%) Here's the big one...The ability should be centred on Oberon and move with him.

3) Renewal - The armour buff shouldn't scale with power strength and always be +300 armour. Attacks from irradiated enemies should do 10-20% less damage to allies affected by this armour buff (300 armour isn't very much outside of starchart enemies.) Note: This is the synergy effect. There needs to be a decent payoff for Oberon buffing his allies. Otherwise I quite like Renewal as it stands now.

4) Reckoning - Range buff, default range should be 20m (up from 15m). Not sure what's wrong with the armour stripping effect, but it doesn't seem to work and requires 10+ casts of Reckoning to strip the armour off a heavy gunner. The blind effect should be 12 seconds (up from 4 seconds, for comparison Radial Blind is 15 seconds) and the blind range should be 8m (up from 4m). CC/Debuffs to make the ability useful once the damage stops being effective.

What am I trying to achieve with these buffs?

As you've hopefully gathered from the above, Oberon's real issue is that he needs to spread his attribute buffs too thinly in order to not take hits to his abilities which make them very sub-par. Other frames can usually just focus heavily into two attributes (power strength and range for example) and completely ignore duration, which in turn allows the use of Fleeting Expertise to boost efficiency. Oberon can't afford to skimp on any attribute or he suffers compounding negative effects to all his abilities. With the buffs above I'm hoping that Oberon can afford to spread himself out across his attributes to become a well-rounded ability user, without being punished for not being able to min-max as he is now.

Passive: Oberon creates a duplicate of his pet that fights and acts alongside him just as a normal pet would. Both pets have a minor vacuum effect or the Kubrow loot collection mechanics by default.

The passive idea came to me as an afterthought and would just be really cool.

Thanks for reading and I hope we truly get the Broberon we deserve and not this Doh!beron we have now.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Akimbo
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[Rekkou]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

You know what would have been better? Being able to lift a few enemies and control where they go. Slamming them down or slamming them into walls, other enemies, etc.

But no yeah I'm bad at the game because I don't like an ability that barely does anything unless I extensively set up a situation where it's useful, and my gun could have probably done it faster and better. God forbid we change the formula a little bit right? God forbid anyone suggest something different? And when we do lets make sure we tell them that they're bad and be as passive aggressive as we possibly can. That's the Tenno way, right? Right?

Nah, i prefer being blunt and clear, like this. If you want to make your own suggestion, then make your own thread, no need to barge into someone else's thread just to force your own opinion. You're clearly just looking for opportunity to voice your own opinion to make sure it's the one that got heard the most.

[bluepheonix13]

Maybe they did this intentionally to already rework him for us, so we get to know the mechanics and then buff him when the prime comes out in (probably) May. 

[THeMooN85]

18 minutes ago, RealisticName said:

he's not too good with fashion frame either 

Dude-frame in skirt isn't fashion enough?! You hurt somebody feelings.

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, Rekkou said:

Nah, i prefer being blunt and clear, like this. If you want to make your own suggestion, then make your own thread, no need to barge into someone else's thread just to force your own opinion. You're clearly just looking for opportunity to voice your own opinion to make sure it's the one that got heard the most.

Wh- How the hell?

No really, tell me, how does that work? Tell me how it's so clear? I mean it's impossible that I just want to contribute to a discussion right? No I definitely just want attention. Hands down. You solved the mystery. Good job.

I'm leaving this thread, it's derailed enough. I hope a mod clears it out.

By the way, being a jerk is not the same as being blunt and clear.