Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Marine027]

12 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

Little known? Kinda hard to see as most of those were in the most recent patch and even youtubers addressed them.

Think main problem is actual info ingame then havign to relay on the wiki or youtubers.

Main problem overall ingame, actual infos besides outside from other sources.

[Mousarchy]

ya but...how is posting about it in the forums going to help the people who didnt read the patch notes on the forums (that they get an easy shortcut too via the 'news' panel)...well good people usually have good intentions, I suppose.

[achromos]

Oberon really either needs more Energy... or his renewal needs to take much less energy... OR have it only effect Warframes and Companions, because as soon as a Nekros shows up with his shadows, or there are any NPC's out there, my energy goes from "10 to 0" so fast I almost get whiplash.  I think this is about the only thing that Oberon needs, if DE were to make that final push then I'm sure we will see people continue to use Oberon more then Atlas ( lol )

Edited May 28, 2017 by achromos

[Gamma745]

6 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Something i haven't seen talked about that I feel should be addressed. With Rhino's costs made newbie friendly could Oberon get a similar treatment? As is he isn't craftable til Jupiter. Can his material requirements get looked at? Sure Rhino will be flat out BETTER than him, but having a few more early game options on frames is never a bad thing.

Maybe? Oberon might be easy to get for veterans, but newbies might take while to get him. Remember, massive eximus spawns happens in deep endless or Eximus stronghold sortie, something new players might not be able to do. With eximus spawn half-rarely and the Oberon drop-rate kinda low (let's face it, how many Eximus do you need to kill for one Oberon set?), Oberon is not that newbie-oriented. Personally, I think new players might already managed past Jupiter before they get their first Oberon. More options for newbies are never harmful though, I agree on that.

 

1 hour ago, achromos said:

... then I'm sure we will see people continue to use Oberon more then Atlas ( lol )

That's not saying much, you know... 

[Music4Therapy]

Stress tested Oberon today in squads, I am typically a solo player and run into no energy issues as such, but wanted to test it in late game squad situations in Mot, Kuva Floods, and Axi Relic endless survival.

Not seeing the energy problem people are having unless there is a Nekros in the party, and I don't use arcane energize or Zenurik. I also use his abilities *VERY* liberally. Like, I have p much 100% uptime on Renewal on myself, my Kubrow, and my squadmates so long as myself or said allies don't run into a nullifier bubble. I throw out Hallowed Grounds all over the place, and I use Reckoning A LOT.

I honestly believe that players are placing too much emphasis on power strength and that is why their builds are suffering. Going ham and getting max efficiency, Vitality, Rage, and (Primed) Flow = no issues. His abilities perform very well without much investment in str imo.

 

All you need for power strength is:

115%: This raises Armor Reduction to 34% and lets you strip armor in 3 Reckonings and only Power Drift.

Or

170%: This raises Armor Reduction to 51% and let's you strip armor in 2 casts. Transient Fortitude + Power Drift. If you don't have Transient Fortitude, just use Natural Talent instead. It let's you cast 3 115% str Reckonings in the time it takes to cast 2 without but w/ 170% str.

Throw on Phoenix Renewal, and congrats you are now a walking 4xCP and you have nigh permanent uptime on your buffs.

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[KnightCole]

14 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 

He's still not meta.....but so what. i think hes fun

 

Meta, thats a frame  that is truly a trash tier frame. 

[malekas]

He is sooooo close. All they need to do is remove the unnecessary restrictions on HG and Renewal. No more Pac-Man for HG, it serves no purpose and it's annoying. Remove the per ally cost for Renewal in favor of a higher base drain, then return the heal rate for spectres/shadows/ect to normal. 

Done, put a bow on him, ship him out. 

[cookieknife]

13 hours ago, blazeshadow44 said:

there is a reason for him to stand there.  it takes away all status chance for enemies, which means that toxic ancients cannot poison him, enemies cannot knock him down, cannot be grappled etc.  pretty handy when dealing with a horde of toxic ancients

He can be grappled 

[Rekkou]

For those who don't know, CP armor reduction stacks additively. Means if you have CP and enough power strength to at least reduce 35% armor. Then you can fully strip an armor in 2 cast

Overall, I feel that Oberon is in much better place. But i'm still deeply disappointed. Seems like DE truly believe that Oberon is so good that every buffs needs to be accompanied with unnecessary counter weight...

[nonbinarysunset]

1 hour ago, Music4Therapy said:

Not seeing the energy problem people are having, and I don't use arcane energize or Zenurik. I also use his abilities *VERY* liberally. Like, I have p much 100% uptime on Renewal on myself, my Kubrow, and my squadmates so long as myself or said allies don't run into a nullifier bubble. I throw out Hallowed Grounds all over the place, and I use Reckoning A LOT.

I honestly believe that players are placing too much emphasis on power strength and that is why their builds are suffering. Going ham and getting max efficiency, Vitality, Rage, and (Primed) Flow = no issues. His abilities perform very well without much investment in str imo/

 

its not only the builds that are making the renewal energy drain a concern, its that he can't regain energy in any way aside from rage and energy orbs, and it will effect (and get increased drain from) literally any; ally, allied summons (including each shadow of the dead, each razorwing, both rumbler, any sand shadows, effigy, decoy, mind controlled targets etc.) and any friendly NPCs. the friendly NPCs is great in sortie defense etc, but in stuff like invasions when you are surrounded by allied NPCs it really sucks. and if you're playing with someone who wants to use nekros or titania or nyx you're going to have to ask them to avoid using their summons when renewal is going up, which sucks. no amount of power efficiency is going to help in those situations, not if you're actively using the rest of his kit, and especially not if you're doing high level missions, where the ~400 armour and ~80 health per second iron renewal is giving me (on a 195% strength/75% duration/130% efficiency build) isn't going to be able to keep up well enough under fire to take the strain off of quick thinking/rage when things go bad. 

the drain on allies would be more bearable if it only counted allies towards its cost, or if oberon was able to benefit from energy vampire/rift plane like equinox does while her channelled abilities are active, or if he had some way to increase the odds of energy orbs spawning. but that later would be kind of a bad move in my opinion because you shouldn't have to rely on a dedicated energy provider just 'cus someone brought a nekros.

its just not fun that your energy can get completely shredded due to interactions with other frames or game modes, and keeping things fun is important.

[Music4Therapy]

24 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I shouldn't have to deal with people going 'oh oberon's fine, get three corrupted mods plus rage.'

Fleeting Expertise is the only corrupted mod that I'd say is "required"

After that, a build that is easily obtainable and is actually the build I use is Rage + Power Drift + Natural Talent + Vitality + Phoenix Renewal + (Primed) Flow + Streamline + Stretch with of course the Fleeting, all of which you either have or are very easily obtainable aside from the Fleeting.

 

11 minutes ago, glutularphysics said:

no amount of power efficiency is going to help in those situations, not if you're actively using the rest of his kit, and especially not if you're doing high level missions, where the ~400 armour and ~80 health per second iron renewal is giving me (on a 195% strength/75% duration/130% efficiency build) isn't going to be able to keep up well enough under fire to take the strain off of quick thinking/rage when things go bad.

I am an endurance player, unless there is a Nekros in the squad, energy in "high level" missions is not an issue. In fact, in high level missions he has a *very* easy time keeping up energy because unlike in low level missions where enemies struggle to even get through his shields, he is consistently able to take health damage. Also, I'd sacrifice some strength in favor of more Efficiency. A few more hit points per second and 200 armor isn't going to save your life more often than having max efficiency and no energy issues whatsoever will. 

Just for reference, at base Oberon has 150 armor and his Iron Renewal gives 200 armor.

150 armor = 33.3% damage reduction
350 armor = 53.85%
550 armor = ~64%

I personally have 115% power strength, so 230 armor.

150 + 230 = 380 armor = 56% damage reduction. The difference between my 115% build and your 195% build is 8% DR, but I never have energy issues and spam my abilities at will. I'd highly recommend a lot less emphasis on power strength.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[nonbinarysunset]

15 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I shouldn't have to deal with people going 'oh oberon's fine, get three corrupted mods plus rage.' I've only ever seen two rage mods in drops in close to a year of gameplay. I could just be farming wrong, or it's just very stupidly rare. Even if he's a 'baby's first support frame' like i've seen some claim as justification for having severe downsides in energy economy especially without rage? He shouldn't NEED a bunch of corrupted mods. One or two for a Great build I can see, and being able to strip shields in two casts with transient + power drift, or blind rage (r5/6?) + Streamline + Power Drift is VERY good (though hampered by the dependence on hallowed ground. What, fifteenish meter range on reckoning isn't enough of a chain when compared to corrosive projection? Gotta limit it further?) However that depends on multipul casts of a power i'm discouraged from casting in mission because of cost. Then again that's part of the challenge I suppose, renewal  upkeep vs using everything else.

this is also a really important thing to consider, because if oberon is supposed to be more of an early game frame compared to equinox or trinity, then how are newer players going to fare with his energy problems? they turn up in an invasion mission with oberon, 'cus they like him and aren't Immersed In The Meta yet, or whatever, and struggle through it because they don't have rage, arcanes, zenurik, energy siphons, or energy restores to rely on when renewal is down, and when its up the npc allies are going to chew through their energy super fast, and they might not even realise or understand why. they end up in a game with a random nekros or titania and soon learn than playing a frame they like (maybe even dropped plat on 'cus they liked how he looked/sounded) can be less fun or frustrating when playing with other people, and there's nothing they can really do about it.

[nonbinarysunset]

.

Edited May 28, 2017 by glutularphysics
double post

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, glutularphysics said:

because they don't have rage, arcanes, zenurik, energy siphons, or energy restores to rely on when renewal is down

Of those listed, Rage is the only one I use and the only one required. Every other mod is easily accessible aside from Fleeting Expertise.

[Music4Therapy]

I am 100% certain that the player base is over rating power strength on Oberon. Seriously, try him with 100% or even 115%. His kit and the synergies in it are strong as is, his only problem from a balance standpoint is how costly his abilities are to use with one another and that is remedied by building him for efficiency and energy.

The only reason why you'd want a crazy amount of Str is if you are acting as the buffer in your squad and are using Smite Infusion.

[nonbinarysunset]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Anyway I want the reckoning behavior changed explicitly so Rage goes from Mandatory MUST HAVE, to 'this would make him so much nicer, but you don't have to have it.' Don't get me wrong, rage would still be one of those 'if you want to use Oberon in the later half of the star chart and sorties you'll want rage, but now it's more a nicity. Plus it'd fix what I see as a super annoying behavior with his kit having an on kill ability on a cc skill.

agreed. even if the chance was as low as 25%, and it was tied to them being slammed by Reckoning on top of Hallowed Ground, the orbs being changed from health to energy would be extremely nice. it would let him support the team a little better, slightly alleviate the fact that rage/energy orbs are the only source of energy he can get while Renewal is up, and wouldn't overlap with the fact that he already has an entire ability dedicated to healing already. I mean, if he has enough energy to cast Reckoning and someone needs the small amount of healing they'd get from an orb that desperately, it'd be cheaper and more effective to just recast Renewal for its initial heal anyway, I think? Reckoning having energy orbs as the bonus would actively encourage using Renewal and healing more often.

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

I am an endurance player, unless there is a Nekros in the squad, energy in "high level" missions is not an issue. In fact, in high level missions he has a *very* easy time keeping up energy because unlike in low level missions where enemies struggle to even get through his shields, he is consistently able to take health damage. Also, I'd sacrifice some strength in favor of more Efficiency. A few more hit points per second and 200 armor isn't going to save your life more often than having max efficiency and no energy issues whatsoever will. 

Just for reference, at base Oberon has 150 armor and his Iron Renewal gives 200 armor.

150 armor = 33.3% damage reduction
350 armor = 53.85%
550 armor = ~64%

I personally have 115% power strength, so 230 armor.

150 + 230 = 380 armor = 56% damage reduction. The difference between my 115% build and your 195% build is 8% DR, but I never have energy issues and spam my abilities at will. I'd highly recommend a lot less emphasis on power strength.

alright well I use Growing Power too on top of my 195% base power strength, so I get a 441 armour boost from Iron Renewal when I cast it, on top of Steel Fiber boosting Oberon's natural armor to 315, and an 88 health per second heal, which is more than double your 43. plus I'm using Quick Thinking, which you didn't list in your build, so;

I have 8938 effective health, and you seem to have 2397 effective health, so its a little bit more than just 200 armor. and considering any puncture, toxic and corrosive damage do +50%, +25% and +75% damage respectively to the ferrite armor on warframes, I'd rather be supporting my team with a larger armor boost and heal per second thanks. I'm not exactly sure what missions you're doing where 43 health per second is still useful, but its not really gonna cut it in sorties as far as I've seen.

anyway the problem is still that sometimes there will be a Nekros (not that Nekros is the only thing that causes issues with Renewal) in the squad, and having to give up on supporting your team/staying alive as potently as possible just in case you end up in a situation where a bunch of targets make renewal's drain scale up absurdly doesn't seem very fair. and that brings us back to why everyone wanted a rework for Oberon in the first place; if he has to function so poorly just so he can manage his energy consumption, why wouldn't people just want to use Trinity or Equinox who can offer far more to the group with much less energy issues?

Edited May 28, 2017 by glutularphysics

[CompanionCombine]

The only change I want is the cost per ally/player removed. No healer should be penalized for actually healing people.

[Music4Therapy]

2 hours ago, glutularphysics said:

agreed. even if the chance was as low as 25%, and it was tied to them being slammed by Reckoning on top of Hallowed Ground, the orbs being changed from health to energy would be extremely nice. it would let him support the team a little better, slightly alleviate the fact that rage/energy orbs are the only source of energy he can get while Renewal is up, and wouldn't overlap with the fact that he already has an entire ability dedicated to healing already. I mean, if he has enough energy to cast Reckoning and someone needs the small amount of healing they'd get from an orb that desperately, it'd be cheaper and more effective to just recast Renewal for its initial heal anyway, I think? Reckoning having energy orbs as the bonus would actively encourage using Renewal and healing more often.

alright well I use Growing Power too on top of my 195% base power strength, so I get a 441 armour boost from Iron Renewal when I cast it, on top of Steel Fiber boosting Oberon's natural armor to 315, and an 88 health per second heal, which is more than double your 43. plus I'm using Quick Thinking, which you didn't list in your build, so;

I have 8938 effective health, and you seem to have 2397 effective health, so its a little bit more than just 200 armor. and considering any puncture, toxic and corrosive damage do +50%, +25% and +75% damage respectively to the ferrite armor on warframes, I'd rather be supporting my team with a larger armor boost and heal per second thanks. I'm not exactly sure what missions you're doing where 43 health per second is still useful, but its not really gonna cut it in sorties as far as I've seen.

anyway the problem is still that sometimes there will be a Nekros (not that Nekros is the only thing that causes issues with Renewal) in the squad, and having to give up on supporting your team/staying alive as potently as possible just in case you end up in a situation where a bunch of targets make renewal's drain scale up absurdly doesn't seem very fair. and that brings us back to why everyone wanted a rework for Oberon in the first place; if he has to function so poorly just so he can manage his energy consumption, why wouldn't people just want to use Trinity or Equinox who can offer far more to the group with much less energy issues?

What you fail to understand is that after a certain point, unless you have absurd amounts of it like Chroma... EHP doesn't mean much at all. Utility > Survivability.

Seriously, the high str low Eff builds are garbage and it's the people using those builds that are complaining about energy.

Again, I am an endurance player. You don't need Naramon to go 90 minutes solo in Mot. Whether you are getting 40hps or 80hps doesn't matter because you're getting bursted down either way. It means nothing against burst damage. Being able to create space or keep said enemies on the floor is more important than ehp.

Seriously, drop the str and try Eff.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

What you fail to understand is that after a certain point, unless you have absurd amounts of it like Chroma... EHP does mean much at all. Utility > Survivability.

Seriously, the high str low Eff builds are garbage and it's the people using those builds that are complaining about energy.

Again, I am an endurance player. You don't need Naramon to go 90 minutes solo in Mot. Whether you are getting 40hps or 80hps doesn't matter because you're getting bursted down either way. It means nothing against burst damage. Being able to create space or keep said enemies on the floor is more important than ehp.

Seriously, drop the str and try Eff.

Yeah that's what I kind of figured. I can support a team of 4 with my build without gasping for energy. I even have 115% eff and over 200% power strength and I manage. Although if you dip below 100% on both eff and dur then you're going to have a bad time.

[Buddhakingpen]

So this is the forum circle of life at work eh? A frame considered bad gets buffed into a decent spot in the eyes of the general public, and then another frames fanbase comes out the woodwork to say they want the same things for their frame, when thats not even supposed to be that frames job.. Being a dev must be frustrating af lol. 

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

4 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

It's just I can see literally ONE change they might be willing to make (as breaking co-dependence won't happen) that would make him nicer on ALL builds.

Alright, may I please see your build? I ask this because I'm genuinely curious at this point.

[Hypernaut1]

I took him to today's interception sortie. Anyone that says Oberon is a bad frame is just trolling at this point. 

He was definitely kicking butt and taking names. With rage, I had no issues at all with energy.

His CC and healing was so good that I would purposely proc Phoenix renewal to get topped off on energy.

Hes definitely one of the most versatile frames out. That's what he is a master of, being versatile.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

16 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Corrosive Projection

Power Drift

Primed Continuity (R9)

Primed Flow (R9)

Vitality (R10)

Quick Thinking

Rage

Streamline

Blind Rage (R5? Whatever it takes for streamline to give me 95% eff)

Strech (considering using equilibrium.)

Doesn't having quick thinking on reduce the utility of Rage?

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

3 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Corrosive Projection

Power Drift

Primed Continuity (R9)

Primed Flow (R9)

Vitality (R10)

Quick Thinking

Rage

Streamline

Blind Rage (R5? Whatever it takes for streamline to give me 95% eff)

Strech (considering using equilibrium.)

Ah see there's your issue. You're complaining about energy ecomony when you're at -Efficiency. Granted 95% isn't horrible, but it could be better. Hell, like I said earlier I have 115% and I do fine.

Gonna go ahead and throw out some possibilities.

Replace Streamlined or Stretch with Fleeting expertise. It lowers duration, but when it comes to energy drain on Renewal Efficiency helps more that duration. But keep Continuity on to help counteract that.

Take off Quick Thinking. It creates bad habits. An Oberon that's self healing should never go down and it only serves to drain your energy even more. Replace with either Intesify for more damage, or Pheonix Renewal if you want to survive better. Additionally, and it's the one I use, you could put Steel Fiber on to make Oberon even harder to kill in general play.

Replace Stretch with intensify and replace Power Drift with Cunning Drift. Power range at base is already respectable for pretty much all abilities. 

These are simply ideas to make a better build. Just experiment and find which combination works for you.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Doesn't having quick thinking on reduce the utility of Rage?

Not with Renewal on constantly healing you, the issue is with what I said above. It creates bad habits that become a detriment to Oberon. If you're only using it as a safety net, Pheonix Renewal is a better alternative that doesn't end up using energy.