Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

The problem here is that most of the frames you're comparing Oberon to are meant for one specialty, which is why most of them have a low score in either buffing, survivability, or crowd controlling. If anything, Equinox is the only other JOAT out of all the Warframes you compared Oberon to. Of course Oberon isn't gonna be good compared to other warframes, because as a JOAT, he can fit a lot of roles, but does this in a manner where every role filled could be done better by any other Warframe. That's what makes him a jack of all trades, and master of none. 

[Music4Therapy]

You are 100% correct. It bothers me when people say he shouldn't be great at anything because he is a generalist. Like, do people not understand that there are plenty of very versatile frames in the game that have things that they excel at?

[(XBOX)CarpeNoctem365]

23 minutes ago, Koed said:

JOAT.

Gretchen, stop trying to make 'JOAT' happen, it's NOT going to happen!

Edited April 29, 2017 by (XB1)CarpeNoctem365

[Music4Therapy]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

The problem here is that most of the frames you're comparing Oberon to are meant for one specialty, which is why most of them have a low score in either buffing, survivability, or crowd controlling. If anything, Equinox is the only other JOAT out of all the Warframes you compared Oberon to. Of course Oberon isn't gonna be good compared to other warframes, because as a JOAT, he can fit a lot of roles, but does this in a manner where every role filled could be done better by any other Warframe. That's what makes him a jack of all trades, and master of none. 

You are so wrong.

What is Rhino's speciality? Because he's an amazing CC, tank, and buff frame.

What is Volt's speciality? Because he's got CC, buffing, and squad protection nailed.

What's Octavia's speciality? Because she's got damage, buffing, cc, and squadwide stealth/energy regen.

What's Equinox's speciality? Because she's got damage, buffing, support, and CC locked down.

I can keep going. Your argument is flawed. There is -NOTHING- that Oberon excels at whereas every single frame has ATLEAST 1 if not 2 or more things they do very damn well.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Evanescent]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

perfect, you answered that question then! job well done, people can stop talking about it finally. :)

i agree in principle - that doesn't mean laser focused discussion that's actually useful can't be incredibly useful(though how you narrow down public feedback to filter out the one sentence responses from touching on as many points/aspects of something as possible.....) - but requiring a 'Democracy approval' certainly would be a disaster.

 

every game that Develops based on 'Democracy approval' ends up in an AFK game that plays itself and with no choices to make.

Not to mention that forums consist of a small portion of the playerbase.

[October0Night]

After playing oberon Some more I have a revised option of him.

Has first ability after the hot fix I feel is now in a good spot and no longer needs any more changes.

His second ability feels good as well but the range could be a bit bigger.  I feel with its current range its to difficult to make a meaningful use of the buffs and debuffs his 3 and 4 ability have on enemies and squad mates who are standing on the area effected by his 2  Also feel that the armor buff needs to have a longer timer just feels to short for the amount of energy involved in getting it to justify its short duration.

His 3 feels fine as is with the exception of the armor buff as already stated.

I still strongly feel his 4 should cause enemies that are slamed into the ground to become dazed and take longer to recover for the knockdown this does not have to be a long duration but would make his 4 a little more useful as armor stripping can done so many other ways with so much less effort its just not useful to strip armor in the manner oberon does it when it can be done by doing something as simple as equipping a mod like corrosive projection or bring a status weapon.

Edited April 29, 2017 by October0Night

[LokiTheCondom]

"happy with where Oberon is now"

*looks at forums*

Fo' real, Scott? Nidus is outright an Oberon on steroids right now.

[Scarmeow]

I generally agree when people say Oberon is a "jack of all trades, master of none." He's supposed to be that way. Yes, we have frames that specialize in certain areas and some that are less specialized like Oberon. There's nothing wrong with that. If you need a frame that can perform a specific task, like nuking, tanking, CC, we HAVE that. What we don't have many of is frames that perform well in a variety of situations.

When you go into a public mission like say sorties or a kuva flood, or even something less demanding like a endo farm on hieracon, you never know what frames your teammates will have. Oberon excels in that situation. Say you have a teammate that keeps dying on Hieracon, it happens all the time. If you're all running damage or tank frames then all you can do is keep reviving them which gets very, very irritating for everyone involved. However if you're running Oberon then YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. Say on that same mission there are a lot of toxic eximus draining health. You can do something about that!

Oberon's power lies not in any one skill, but in his versatility.

[Urlan]

I would put Oberon and other all-rounders together, but while I would certainly put Rhino and Oberon in the group as far as effectiveness; I would consider Hydroid (With augments), Nezha, Equinox (though more powerful due to percentage based effects), and Nekros (though mostly as a looter) to be all-rounders. Inaros could loosely be an all-rounder since he can restore allies health with Scarab Swarm and Devour while mostly being focused on tanking and self-durability. Nidus is more focused on his Burst damage with Virulence and setting up or enduring those situations to land that attack; but can also help allies stay alive with Ravenous - though its less on average than Oberon's Renewal - it is still mostly focused on making Virulence better with Suicide Broodlings. Equinox herself being on the high-end of true all-rounders due to both scaling heal/harm effects that endorse a 'win-more' playstyle and a fall-back of control that results in scaling kills from Pacification and then stabbing things or ignoring such foes.

The best or safest comparison to other warframes on play effectiveness is often Rhino because Oberon and the big bruiser have similar uses and best effectiveness in similar ranges of enemy levels. Rhino and Oberon typically surviving much better with less mod requirement at early to mid levels and in particular acting as great and flexible warframes to trudge through the star chart. Rhino and Nezha by extension have excellent survivability against individual or lower damage potential foes with Iron Skin / Halo; and like Oberon, they have signature warframe abilities like Reckoning, Stasis Stomp, and Divine Spears that restrict or temporarily disable foes while doing respectable but not high damage to groups.

I would agree that Oberon and by extension other all-rounder warframes could use buffs to bring them into a more competitive comparison with specialists like Trinity, Loki, or Nova but its a cautious path and sorta has to be, all-rounders represent balance more than others and can't be as easy or flashy but also not quite as risky an option as focused damage dealers, tanks, infiltrators, or supports. I am concerned about what the future holds for other all-rounders like Hydroid if Oberon's rework doesn't address player expectations.

[Music4Therapy]

4 minutes ago, Scarmeow said:

I generally agree when people say Oberon is a "jack of all trades, master of none." He's supposed to be that way. Yes, we have frames that specialize in certain areas and some that are less specialized like Oberon. There's nothing wrong with that. If you need a frame that can perform a specific task, like nuking, tanking, CC, we HAVE that. What we don't have many of is frames that perform well in a variety of situations.

When you go into a public mission like say sorties or a kuva flood, or even something less demanding like a endo farm on hieracon, you never know what frames your teammates will have. Oberon excels in that situation. Say you have a teammate that keeps dying on Hieracon, it happens all the time. If you're all running damage or tank frames then all you can do is keep reviving them which gets very, very irritating for everyone involved. However if you're running Oberon then YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. Say on that same mission there are a lot of toxic eximus draining health. You can do something about that!

Oberon's power lies not in any one skill, but in his versatility.

The problem is there are many versatile frames in the game that have atleast one thing they excel at.

Rhino has amazing CC, tankiness, and buff capabilities.

Octavia has damage, buffing, cc, and squadwide stealth/energy regen.

Equinox has damage, buffing, support, and CC locked down.

Nidus and Nezha do near everything Oberon does, but better.

There are plenty of frames that can do just as much if not more than Oberon while also excelling at 1 or more of those things. Oberon? The things he does he is average at, at best.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Koed]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

The problem here is that most of the frames you're comparing Oberon to are meant for one specialty, which is why most of them have a low score in either buffing, survivability, or crowd controlling. If anything, Equinox is the only other JOAT out of all the Warframes you compared Oberon to. Of course Oberon isn't gonna be good compared to other warframes, because as a JOAT, he can fit a lot of roles, but does this in a manner where every role filled could be done better by any other Warframe. That's what makes him a jack of all trades, and master of none. 

I think you missed the entire OP because I'm NOT comparing him to frames that are meant for ONE SPECIALTY. This guy gets it:

20 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

You are so wrong.

What is Rhino's speciality? Because he's an amazing CC, tank, and buff frame.

What is Volt's speciality? Because he's got CC, buffing, and squad protection nailed.

What's Octavia's speciality? Because she's got damage, buffing, cc, and squadwide stealth/energy regen.

What's Equinox's speciality? Because she's got damage, buffing, support, and CC locked down.

I can keep going. Your argument is flawed. There is -NOTHING- that Oberon excels at whereas every single frame has ATLEAST 1 if not 2 or more things they do very damn well.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

You give Valkyr with her Near to impossible to use dbuff, with her tank/Cc conflict, with the percentual buff that does jack for any light armor frame and the melee buff that works for melee exclusive so much better points then oberon? Really?

Nah i mean, seriously?

Bias much?

[LuckyCharm]

Oberon is the master of status removal. Not always important but has bailed my butt out of trouble more than once. 

His armor buff is a little underrated here imo. You're pretty much giving your squishies an extra 40% damage reduction just for free while theyre being healed up. Sure its no trin but its the only non % increase i can see which makes it golden for frames like trin or banshee with their 10 base armor. 

Augment wise he can buff as well as any of the other elementals. Better in fact since he gives radiation rather than a single element. 

[Koed]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You give Valkyr with her Near to impossible to use dbuff, with her tank/Cc conflict, with the percentual buff that does jack for any light armor frame and the melee buff that works for melee exclusive so much better points then oberon? Really?

Nah i mean, seriously?

Bias much?

Why is it near impossible to press 2, use 75 energy and slow in a 25m radius? 

And the reason I would rate it higher is quite simple. It's so impractical to use the buff from Oberon's 1 that noone ever uses it and never will. Initially I put a 0 there compared to the 2 I put now. Valkyr however is easy to use and the benefit in damage should not be underestimated. And just because something is specific to a weapon category aka melee doesn't mean you shouldn't consider its usefulness/possibilities. 

[Music4Therapy]

The community viewing Oberon strictly as a JOAT is what is holding him back as a frame. While frames like Octavia, Nidus, Rhino, Frost, etc... go around like 1-man armies capable of doing many things well.

8 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Oberon is the master of status removal. Not always important but has bailed my butt out of trouble more than once. 

He lays down a piece of carpet that removes status effects and that makes him the master? What about Nezha, who can cast his Halo on allies which does the same and his Firewalker ability is basically Hallowed Ground on steroids. Firewalker gives status and CC immunity, is guaranteed to proc heat, follows him, grants him a speed buff, synergizes with his 2, and deals damage. Hell, everything Oberon does Nezha does better (and faster)

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[ReinAxefury]

My thoughts on how can DE make Oberon good:

New Passive:
Enemies killed with radiation procs can drop energy or health orbs with 25% chance.
Radiation procs last 25% longer.

Smite: "Breaks Armor"
* Main projectile Strips armor from the target (100% but single target). The aditional projectiles will work as usual.

Hallowed Ground:

* Now is a channeling aura around oberon.
* Base range increased to 20m radius.
* Gives Armor and Immunity to stats to him and allies inside the range.
* Enemies inside will recieve radiation damage with low chance to proc (20%?).

Renewal:

* Now is a toggle that works like Equinox's Pacify . Oberon only has energy reduced when is healing and the cost increases for each ally being healed.
* Sentinels and Pets healing cost reduced to half.
* Enemies inside renewal will get a punture proc (30% less damage).

Reckoning:

* Base Range increased to 12/14/17/20 m
* Remove Blind, instead Enemies take more time to get up.
* Removed the health orbs part (let that be part of the passive).
* Removed the strip armor part.
* Procs Radiation with 100%
* Allies inside Hallowed Ground will be granted a buff that for a duration allows them to keep Hallowed Ground benefits even if they are out of range o even if Oberon turn it off.
* Enemies inside Renewal will have their damage reduced by a fixed % amount for a duration.

 

So, how Oberon will work with these changes? You can build him for Hallowed Ground and Renewal, giving allies tons of armor and heal, or you can focus on Reckoning and Smite for a big radius CC making Oberon have an appeal for tanky low to sortie level and CC-Strip armor further, also, Reckoning becomes the Sinergy factor giving Renewal and Hallowed ground extra value.

[continue]

5 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

That is why I feel the buffs should be to the stand-alone ability of Hallowed Ground and allow it not only to act as the foundation of all his synergies, but as a catalyst to them as well.

i agree. DE's understanding of synergy is shallow at best, preferring to hardcode synergy into the abilities rather than considering how each ability affects gameplay individually. Being able to use Mag pull to pile up enemies before magnetizing the pile has far more synergy than any of the built-ins. hell, even Hydroid's Tidal Wave synergizes with Undertow because you can dash in invulnerable and then make a small aoe CC while invulnerable (whether it's actually useful is a different story though)

[Guest]

Here are my opinions following lots of play on him, and fiddle@(*()$ with 4-forma min-max builds of all kinds. I was putting together a stand-alone post. But... whatever. This is more concise.  I'm half-thinking that now that there's a mega-thread, all feedback comes here to die.  So...  here's mine.

Smite is fine as is. It's main value is in status effects.

Hallowed Ground sucks

• redundant status effects are redundant with 1, 4

• "synergies" are actually dependencies

• Make it round or an ellipse or even an oblique roundish thing. Just don't leave a Pac-man mouth cut out of it. Frontal range / coverage should be a priority.

• Make radius actually scale comparably to other abilities that depend on "synergies"

• Give him a reason to cast it. Energy economy is a really good reason - make enemies emit energy pulse for x range (or even through the HG itself) on death while on HG - contributes to team play, incentivizes team to use HG, fixes oberon's energy problems.

• Make HG affect players who are standing on objects mere inches above the HG, such as @(*()$ cryopods and railings. No one is ever in the @(*()$ HG to get the Iron Renewal buff, even when everyone's "on the HG". It should have a vertical height check of at least the height of a warframe, without requiring direct contact with the graphic on the floor.  As is, you can stand on an object like a cryopod, cast HG without moving, and not gain the HG buff.

• HG's augment sucks. You need many HG casts to get good coverage for renewal and reckoning "synergy" (read - dependency). You can only cast HG once with augment.

Renewal functionally is great but is too expensive overall for his spam-centric kit.

• Either Iron Renewal needs to be innate with no HG dependency, or HG needs to be way cheaper and more easily spread everywhere. IR uptime is way low without voice-com coordination. IR - HG dependency is impractical given the range discrepancy between HG and renewal.

• Oberon is punished for trying to heal more people - especially in a raid. Either make renewal cheaper, permit some energy regen while channeling, or give him some means to regen energy through his kit OTHER THAN RAGE. He does not have the EHP to reliably use rage. Meanwhile, teammates taking dmg drains your energy without triggering your rage.  He needs to be able to regen energy at least for himself, preferably for his team. (see HG AOE energy pulse on death idea).

• Energy drain for active healing should be flat and not scale with target count.

• Renewal bleedout extension behavior is wacky and inconsistent. There's a post on the reddit about it. Fix it.

Reckoning is sort of ok, damage wise. The HG dependency is impractical given the energy cost of the combo and the range discrepancy between the abilities.

• Make the health orb spawning behave like Pilfering Swarm, so that it's more consistent and reliable.

• Hallowed Reckoning zones are tiny and don't do any of the stuff HG does. They should fulfill HG synergy requirements for renewal and reckoning, and should be bigger.

Overall - A little better than before, but still a 2nd or 3rd string kit. A few tweaks to manage his "synergies" and terrible energy economy better, and he could be an all-star. Some ideas presented here would be OP if combined.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, continue said:

i agree. DE's understanding of synergy is shallow at best, preferring to hardcode synergy into the abilities rather than considering how each ability affects gameplay individually. Being able to use Mag pull to pile up enemies before magnetizing the pile has far more synergy than any of the built-ins. hell, even Hydroid's Tidal Wave synergizes with Undertow because you can dash in invulnerable and then make a small aoe CC while invulnerable (whether it's actually useful is a different story though)

Hydroid can follow up that combo with his tentacle swarm, simulating a low-range spec swarm with all the tentacles hitting the crowd.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

6 minutes ago, Koed said:

Why is it near impossible to press 2, use 75 energy and slow in a 25m radius? 

And the reason I would rate it higher is quite simple. It's so impractical to use the buff from Oberon's 1 that noone ever uses it and never will. Initially I put a 0 there compared to the 2 I put now. Valkyr however is easy to use and the benefit in damage should not be underestimated. And just because something is specific to a weapon category aka melee doesn't mean you shouldn't consider its usefulness/possibilities. 

Because of the fact that it's impossible to substain the Cc with anything but a low duration build, what kills warcry as offensive and defensive buff and hysteria equally.

You can eather use her as a Cc/Light tank OR as a offensive/tanky frame. The group buff is only offensive melee regardless.

There's hardly a in between, what disqualifies her as jackofall and kinda puts your whole point to question.

[Rioma]

Use him for radiation mobile defense sortie. Other than that just play him if you're feeling spicy. I imagine he might be useful for new players to build early since he can heal, and panic 4 if being swarmed. Once you get other frames and mods you leave him behind for specialists. Not every frame is oriented towards high level players, especially since this guy just drops off eximus mobs.

[LazyKnight]

I think you're on to something about healers in this game too. There is no real role for healers due to most Warframes entering bleed-out before healing is even possible, not that healing would save most Warframes, anyway. Healing others is so spotty that reviving tends to be far more practical.

I believe DE made Oberon so limited because he can heal, but it is really not that helpful of a skill in this game. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by LazyKnight
So many typos,

[Music4Therapy]

4 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

I think you're on to something about healers in this game too. There is no real roll for healers due to most Warframes entering bleed-out before healing is even possible, not that healing would save most Warframes, anyway. Healing others is so spotty that reviving tends to be far more practical.

I believe DE made Oberon so limited because he can heal, but it is really not a helpful of an ability in this game. 

Yep, neither healers nor tanks have real roles in this game outside of solo play. I've never entered a pub and thought to myself, "gee, I hope we have a healer" or "hopefully there'll be an Inaros to take aggro"

Rather, frames that provide squadwide support such as EV Trinity, Banshee, Octavia, Rhino, etc... are preferred over "healers" and frames that protect the party such as Frost, Volt, Vauban, Limbo are more suited to the role of defending the party than the selfish Wukong, Chroma, and Inaros for example.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Koed]

2 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Yep, neither healers nor tanks have real roles in this game outside of solo play. I've never entered a pub and thought to myself, "gee, I hope we have a healer" or "hopefully there'll be an Inaros to take aggro"

Rather, frames that provide squadwide support such as EV Trinity, Banshee, Octavia, Rhino, etc... are preferred over "healers" and frames that protect the party such as Frost, Volt, Vauban, Limbo are more suited to the role of defending the party than the selfish Wukong, Chroma, and Inaros for example.

Agreed. The only reason I put Tank in there was with solo play in mind. It's quite meta as well to be tanky.

 

[Koed]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Because of the fact that it's impossible to substain the Cc with anything but a low duration build, what kills warcry as offensive and defensive buff and hysteria equally.

You can eather use her as a Cc/Light tank OR as a offensive/tanky frame. The group buff is only offensive melee regardless.

There's hardly a in between, what disqualifies her as jackofall and kinda puts your whole point to question.

This is my Valkyr build. I slow enemies in 36,25m radius by a whopping 75%, I grant allies 115% armor buff and attack speed and I can go invincible on command. I run with arcane energize.

Now, are you telling me that can't be considered a JOAT just because I can't heal my squadmates (I can heal myself though)? I CC, Tank and damage buff. 3/4. Oberon can CC, "Tank" and heal. 3/4.