Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

52 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

I build debuff valkyr with 10 second of 75% slow so it's spamable and Max range/strength prolonged paralysis.  She's a great cc frame is built for it.

Point is it's only Cc then with about beein as tanky as inaros is with no support whatsoever and GIANT windows where enemys are unCc'd due to sheer energy issues.

 

Reality on a Cc build is closer to cc 5, tank 5, buffer3, survival 2

oberon on the other side still spreading chaos Cc, having access to NUMERICAL armor buffs, Decent healing at least rivaling inaros, cc immunity aso.

Cc at least 7, tank 3-4, buffer 2, survival 5-6- if not more due to iron renewal and hallowed reckoning. Providing caster frames with percentual armor: meh.

Prividing casters with up to like 600-800 armor= godly.

 

Biased.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Vafthrudnir]

21 hours ago, n_0x said:

And to compound on that note of "Oberon being the master of status removal"  big reminder that you have to stay on HG to continually benefit from it meanwhile Titania let's you run around with status immunity free to do whatever you please with it.

Also Nezha and Frost Icy Avalanche.

[Pakon3ds]

When something new comes to the game, one should take the time to test it and make up a well formed opinion about the item of interest. Also, one should not only say how bad a thing is. We should give new, constructive ideas about the product: what we see it's wrong but also how to fix it, so here is my review on the new Oberon. 

1: Smite.

The skill lacks base damage, with no mods it can’t kill a level 1 heavy gunner.

For it to work you need a group of enemies stacked, due to the range of the orbs being so low, and try to target the heavy unit, making the skill difficult to use in a real scenario.  Now with the use of stretch it gets to 18.5 meters, so you might have the chance to actually hit someone with the orbs.

You will need multiple casts of this skill to kill even the weakest enemy (via orbs), don’t expect to kill anyone with the initial damage. You can consume your entire energy pool (with primed flow) to kill a group of enemies (if you kill them) and yet the primary target will not be dead.

The strength mods affecting the number of orbs makes each impact of the orbs weaker than if you had no mods at all. When casted on a corrupted ancient level 85 this is what happens:

Level 85 butchers receiving 2300 damage per orb with no mods.

Level 85 butchers receiving 2100 damage per orb with 275% power strength… really.

2: Hallowed Ground.

This skill has improved with respect to the previous hallowed ground. Being a circular area around Oberon (as many other Warframe skills are) is one right step. The problem is: is not really a circular area, it only becomes circular if you mod for it with power range… And I need to ask… why? Why so many warframes can have free circular areas on skills but Oberon needs to mod for it?

With stretch you get 240º.  With overextended you get 301.5 º. So you actually need those two mods to make it 360º and start becoming a real ability. Now you get -60%  power strength due to the use of overextended, making the skill deal no damage at all (32 points of damage to level 85 butchers). Now what I have to say is: damage for this skill is not really a problem, you use this skill for the utility it brings: confusing enemies and making your team immune to status effect is really great. So what is the problem? Having to maximize range doesn’t only reduce the damage, which is irrelevant, it also reduces the status chance, which is a big part of this skill and half of its utility, getting only 6% status chance.

Another problem with the skill is the radius of the circle, being 20meters with max power range means it is only somewhat effective in a small defense map, and only for the status immunity, since the status chance for the enemies is almost taken out of the equation. 

Also, being casted on the ground has some problematic consequences, i will talk about them later. 

First, it needs to be circular, so either it is circular since the beginning, as many other abilities in the game, or make the scaling affect it in a different way, making the 360º achievable with less power range.

The range needs to be buffed if this ability is going to be used outside of small defense maps. With maxed power range, 20 meters is honestly not good at all.

Also, Renewal has an interaction with Hallowed Ground, making them synergize…  until you realize that having a good 360º Hallowed Ground affects negatively to renewal, and the initial heal, heal over time, and armor get completely reduced, so the synergy actually doesn’t exists.

3:  Renewal

You need A LOT of power strength to make the healing meaningful. Of course doing this will have a really heavy impact on the energy consumption, as well as in the duration of the buff. When maxed out for power strength, the armor gain is not even enough to get to the level of the base armor of some frames, and the chances of survive against medium level enemies is not that greatly improved.

Of course to get the armor buff you need to cast it on Hallowed ground, but we needed maxed range for that ability to become usable, so the power strength loss also reduces the armor we get with renewal and the healing. So, where is the synergy? Also, having renewal on, the buff and healing a few team mates has an absurd impact on the energy consumption.

4:Reckoning

The damage it deals is completely negligible. Around 600 damage to a level 40 Corrupted heavy gunner.

To deal extra damage the enemy needs to be affected by Radiation. The effective way to inflict radiation would be though Hallowed Ground, but the radius for this ability with maxed power range is 20 meters, while for reckoning is 35. So the ranges don’t match. Also, Hallowed ground is casted on the floor, while reckoning acts even if the enemy is above or below the player. To sum up: no synergy at all between this abilities.

Even with maxed out power strength plus energy conversion, it doesn’t get rid of all the enemy armor.

Blind duration extremely low, it is not even enough time to revive a fallen ally in an effective way. 

Current status of Oberon when modded:

To make the most out of Oberon there are a few basic things we need. First of all, some survivability, let’s go with Vitality.

Second: we need to max out power range if we want the orbs from smite to affect enemies, hallowed ground to be circular and with the maximum range possible, and reckoning to have a decent range. Overextended + Stretch.

Now we are at 40% power strength, making our heals, the number of orbs, the general “damage” of the Warframe as well as the status chance in Hallowed ground and the armor buff from Renewal a complete joke. So we need a little bit of power strength. With Transient Fortitude and Intensify we are at 125% power strength.

To make something close to useful with Oberon we need to use several skills in combination with each other. In addition, Renewal will drain energy per second and per target. We need Efficiency and a bigger energy pool urgently. Primed flow and Streamline. This leaves us with one single free slot, but we are at 73% duration, which is kind of relevant for Oberon, we need Primed Continuity. And the build is done.

Now we have maxed out range for all his abilities, the price?  The damage is completely negligible, the armor buff is only at 250 armor. The energy consumption is still really high, as the energy per target doesn’t get reduced with efficiency or duration. The blind form reckoning is at 5 seconds which is barely enough to pick up a fallen ally. The healing is completely ridiculous. And of course you need to use most of his abilities all the time to make something with them, and yet, they have serious issues fitting with each other.

Another option would be go with Rage and leave Streamline out. But it doesn’t change anything.

If you try a build with max power strength to make decent heals and give the armor bonus and hope that your team does the rest, as a support character, forget it, is way to inefficient energetically. 

To sum up, Oberon, right now, even with the “rework” is in a critical status. Inviable and ineffective. His abilities, that are supposed to work in combination with one another, doesn’t actually fit with each other.  The damage that Oberon can make with his skills is completely negligible, the survivability of the frame is mediocre even with the use of his abilities. The energy consumption of the Warframe is extremely high. The utilities, such as the blind, the armor reduction or the armor increase buff are just not enough even when maxed out  with mods.

How to make Oberon Work:

Smite:

Now the skill is interesting, damaging a primary target and hurting nearby enemies in the process, while they take a radiation proc… sounds amazing, it has the potential to be a great ability, there is no need to change this skill for another one. But as of right now is not balanced at all, the numbers need to be revisited if this skill is to work, and the damage mechanic needs to change if we are going to talk about scaling at all.

Base damage needs to be buffed (remember the level 1 gunner), and if the ability is to work at high levels it needs a different damage mechanic: Base damage + % of current health for the primary target.

% of damage for the orbs needs to scale with power strength if the damage is going to split between the orbs. And finally, the range needs to be buffed, making it possible to achieve at least 30 meters.

Hallowed ground:

This is where I feel the things get really ugly and this ability doesn’t need just an adjustment to the numbers, it needs a complete rework. Since it is the way your allies get the status immunity, the armor buff, and the most effective way of making the enemies take the radiation proc to make reckoning more effective. First, it needs to have the same range as Reckoning (radius).

It can’t be casted on the ground, since Reckoning  and Renewal affect enemies and allies that are above and below Oberon, Hallowed ground needs to apply not in a half circle on the floor, but on a sphere around Oberon. Make it a… Hallowed Winds, Hallowed Aura kind of thing. And just make it spherical this time, not hemispherical. The degrees thing is just absurd. This way the skills actually have the chance to interact with each other, if that is your goal.

Renewal:

Even if the amount of armor that Oberon gets (that is, if he has enough power strength) is not really that much, making a squishy ally have 500 armor is a really nice boost. Now Oberon himself as a support taking care of his allies with armor and heals etc, needs a bit more survivability, so make Oberon get more armor, maybe an extra % of armor for each ally affected could be a good idea.

As far as I can tell for what I have tested, the healing from Oberon is not meant to be an instant heal such as the one from trinity, but a constant more subtle healing over time that prevents people from getting really hurt. And that is good! But the problem is that the energy consumption is extremely high. Make it so the energy per target gets reduced with efficiency, that’s all.

Also, there is a really big issue with the range... 

Reckoning:

The damage it does right now is completely negligible even to medium level enemies, so that’s pretty much the same as nothing. If we want Oberon to scale, you could calculate the damage of the ability based on the number of targets affected + total hp from the enemies affected. So the higher the level of the enemies, the more damage it does, the higher the number of enemies affected, the more damage it does. It’s “reckoning” right?

Focus instead in the utility part of the skill if you dont want oberon to be a damage dealing frame. The blind duration has to improve by a lot, at least to give time to do something relevant, such as picking up a fallen ally with enough time to get ready for battle again. The armor reduction has to be able to reach 100% when you completely maximize power strength. At the end of the day… it’s reckoning.

Maybe an ability that has this potential would be way too much? So just focus on something, chose damage or utility. Make it deal damage and get 100% of the armor out. Make it 100% armor and blind. Make it damage and 8 seconds blind. It’s better to do a few things correctly than a lot of them with no relevant results at all.

 

So that’s my analysis, feedback and ideas about Oberon. I hope this is taken the right way and we manage to give this Warframe the status it deserves.

[Leonix13]

We have a lot of cooks in this kitchen, I hope DE doesn't just slap more bandaids on Oberon. 

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

--strength effecting percentage of health used and not number of orbs on smite

--the armor debuff having diminishing effects on the reckoning/ hallowed ground combo

--the general range of hallowed ground 

[EinheriarJudith]

Remove the toggle from renewal its aweful. there was nothing wrong with it being castable with its wave. moving the armor buff out of hallowed ground and into renewal to force people to using that combination to get the armor buff isnt synergy. put the armor buff back into hallowed ground and give renewal something that adds to what hallowed ground does idk like.... overshield (better yet temporary HP)?

Edited April 30, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Fallen_Echo]

Theres still many things with him what needs adjustments.

BTW wheres the oberon rework megathread?

[-Onyx-Phalian]

10 hours ago, Iccotak said:

Devstream 91, they said they would see how we did this weekend and our overall response to Oberon and take another look. They are actively working on him but they want more data from the playerbase.

Which is why multiple times I have mentioned many common trends between most recommendations for Oberon, even referencing large YouTubers who DE respect. In fact the 3 large YouTubers who have raised their hands each point out 3 large flaws with Oberon's current position. 

Tactical Potato: Countless energy problems. Your abilities require Oberon to sew different abilities together to get any real utility out of them and with a moderate Energy pool, this can be very difficult without a way to gain energy built into his kit

Mogamu: While he did say that his energy problem can be solved with Iron Reckoning + Rage, he still believes Smite's scaling is so bad it's non-existent and Reckoning needs a bit more such as a higher base armor shred (Comparing Oberon's 30% from Hallowed Ground + Reckoning to Frost's 40% from only Avalanche) and the possibility of instead of a 50% chance of enemies dropping Health Orbs when killed by Reckoning, marking enemies so those who die in X seconds after being hit by it have a 50% or even 100% to drop a Health Orb (Not only adding utility but also giving options to his build as Health Conversion would be much more viable)

AGayGuyPlays: Rob has the least number of issues with Oberon's rework but he was quite vocal about Hallowed Ground's current visuals being very underwhelming at best. Mentioning that unless you pick a VERY bright color, it is nearly impossible to see. His idea to solve this was to add grass from the upcoming Earth update and plants from the Silver Grove which would not only make it MUCH easier to see but also much more thematic with Oberon's connection to nature and his slight connection with the Silver Grove quest. 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

10 hours ago, Iccotak said:

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Phalian

[-Onyx-Phalian]

10 hours ago, Iccotak said:

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Phalian

[DrBorris]

Oberon is close, very close, to a solid state.

 

The current build I am running makes me and my team neigh un-killable if everyone groups up in the beginning to get the armor buff.

120+ Healing per second with around a 600 armor buff for everybody, along with Phoenix Renewal in case someone face tanks too hard makes him a far better support to Trinity when it comes to keeping the team alive (But when you count in EV Trinity is still the superior support). Smite is fine, as it has been. But now Renewal and Hallowed Ground are the bread and butter of his kit (A change I am very happy to see happen).

 

But then there is Reckoning. It just does not really flow with Oberon, it pits itself as a damage ult but does not have damage to back it up. IMO, Oberon should drop the "damage" tag out and put a bit more focus on CC. Maybe have Reckoning affect all enemies standing on any patch of Hallowed Ground, no matter where it is. Maybe have it be a two part cast, first cast lifts enemies up for you to kill, second cast will smash them down (Killing enemies while lifted will have them drop health orbs). Or maybe just give it a massive buff to range but tone down the damage.

 

And next there is his passive. "Cute" is the way I would describe it. Having frames with passives that synergize with their kit like Octavia, Ash, Atlas, Inaros etcetera and then giving some Warframes passives that have nothing to do with their kit is unfair to say the least. Given that Oberon is now very energy hungry, what about having him regenerate 1 energy for every point of health damage taken to him AND allies within thirty meters? It fits his theme and, more importantly, his kit. And it would still not be a complete substitute for Rage.

 

Pitching Oberon as having "scaling damage" was a mistake, damage never really was something Oberon should have been good at. Oberon's scaling attributes are his ability to keep his team alive and to keep enemies at bay. With some changes to Reckoning Oberon will be in a very good place.

 

Oh, and before I forget, Hallowed Ground vfx is absolutely horrible (hard to see and even when you do it looks bad). The flaming carpet was better than what we have now IMO. Give him grass like Nidus' 4. And please for the love of RNGesus, make PBR for Oberon a priority. He needs it, bad.

[Music4Therapy]

8 minutes ago, Phalian said:

Which is why multiple times I have mentioned many common trends between most recommendations for Oberon, even referencing large YouTubers who DE respect. In fact the 3 large YouTubers who have raised their hands each point out 3 large flaws with Oberon's current position. 

Tactical Potato: Countless energy problems. Your abilities require Oberon to sew different abilities together to get any real utility out of them and with a moderate Energy pool, this can be very difficult without a way to gain energy built into his kit

Mogamu: While he did say that his energy problem can be solved with Iron Reckoning + Rage, he still believes Smite's scaling is so bad it's non-existent and Reckoning needs a bit more such as a higher base armor shred (Comparing Oberon's 30% from Hallowed Ground + Reckoning to Frost's 40% from only Avalanche) and the possibility of instead of a 50% chance of enemies dropping Health Orbs when killed by Reckoning, marking enemies so those who die in X seconds after being hit by it have a 50% or even 100% to drop a Health Orb (Not only adding utility but also giving options to his build as Health Conversion would be much more viable)

AGayGuyPlays: Rob has the least number of issues with Oberon's rework but he was quite vocal about Hallowed Ground's current visuals being very underwhelming at best. Mentioning that unless you pick a VERY bright color, it is nearly impossible to see. His idea to solve this was to add grass from the upcoming Earth update and plants from the Silver Grove which would not only make it MUCH easier to see but also much more thematic with Oberon's connection to nature and his slight connection with the Silver Grove quest. 

AGGP is moreso on the casual side so no surprise there.

Mogamu.... just lol. I can't take anyone seriously that thinks that Rage or some sort of Rage mechanic is the solution to Oberon's problems. Being shot in the face shouldn't be the solution to his energy problems. Smite does scale well, he just has zero understanding of how it works and wants Oberon to be a press 1 to win god.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[-Onyx-Phalian]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

AGGP is moreso on the casual side so no surprise there.

Mogamu.... just lol. I can't anyone seriously that thinks Rage or some sort of Rage mechanic is the solution to Oberon's problems. Smite does scale well, he just has zero understanding of how it works and wants Oberon to be a press 1 to win god.

 

Actually the Scaling on Smite is kind of weak because Power Strength increases the orb count but that means each do less damage (wrap your head around that one) while showing how much damage it does to enemies who have decent armor (seriously, hit a Heavy Gunner and the orbs do nothing but tickle Grineer Lancers with so little damage you can not even see it). DE did say they would add Scaling but in all reality it just adds up to about the same damage as it did prior to the rework. 

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Phalian said:

Actually the Scaling on Smite is kind of weak because Power Strength increases the orb count but that means each do less damage (wrap your head around that one) while showing how much damage it does to enemies who have decent armor (seriously, hit a Heavy Gunner and the orbs do nothing but tickle Grineer Lancers with so little damage you can not even see it). DE did say they would add Scaling but in all reality it just adds up to about the same damage as it did prior to the rework. 

It's a trade off. Oberon would be the god of endless damage if smite did more scaling damage with power strength.

They were very careful in the way they set the numbers on his kit. On one hand, if they bump his armor strip to 40% than 100% stripping via power strength is a legitimate option and at that point he is a walking CPx4 with a spammable damage scaling 1. I actually don't mind Mogamu's idea to bump the armor reduction to 40%, but the smite changes that he wants in conjunction with complete armor stripping that he wants would make him broken.

Vs unarmored targets is where it shines. Hit the eximus unit in the middle of the infested/corpus packs. In his current kit, it makes you choose between armor stripping or raw damage from his Smite, and I think that is a very balanced approach.

That said! That is why I've been pushing for that projectiles = energy idea, so there was some upside to raise strength for the ability.

[redeyedtreefrog]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Examples:
* Currently Oberon is very energy hungry with no real way of gaining energy outside of spending a mod slot on Rage.

* Reckoning's health orb drop only consistently drops orbs in missions where you don't need them because it cannot consistently kill enemies in missions where you would normally need health.

* Smite's scaling is hampered by the fact the scaling component splits amongst the secondary orbs.

* Reckoning Renewal, and Hallowed Ground need their ranges looked at since if they are supposed to synergize their ranges shouldn't be wildly differant.

Of those bullet points, I'd rate my personal opinion on order of importance to be 1,2,4,3. However, I still maintain that making renewal a channeled ability was a mistake, and should be moved to function like it used to, but as a buff effect, not a draining regen (basically, put renewal back to being delivered by seking orbs at any range, but cause the regeneration to be applied like a normal buff effect: that means no energy drain on oberon.)

[-Onyx-Phalian]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

It's a trade off. Oberon would be the god of endless damage if smite did more scaling damage with power strength.

They were very careful in the way they set the numbers on his kit. On one hand, if they bump his armor strip to 40% than 100% stripping via power strength is a legitimate option and at that point he is a walking CPx4 with a spammable damage scaling 1. I actually don't mind Mogamu's idea to bump the armor reduction to 40%, but the smite changes that he wants in conjunction with complete armor stripping that he wants would make him broken.

Vs unarmored targets is where it shines. Hit the eximus unit in the middle of the infested/corpus packs. In his current kit, it makes you choose between armor stripping or raw damage from his Smite, and I think that is a very balanced approach.

That said! That is why I've been pushing for that projectiles = energy idea, so there was some upside to raise strength for the ability.

While I do love the idea of Smite being able to help with his energy problems, I would just like have Power Strength be beneficial. Think of this, what if each orb did a certain percent of the original target's max health regardless of the number of orbs? That would actually encourage Power Strength instead of Smite basically doing the same damage regardless of your Power Strength. 

[redeyedtreefrog]

6 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

It's a trade off. Oberon would be the god of endless damage if smite did more scaling damage with power strength.

They were very careful in the way they set the numbers on his kit. On one hand, if they bump his armor strip to 40% than 100% stripping via power strength is a legitimate option and at that point he is a walking CPx4 with a spammable damage scaling 1. I actually don't mind Mogamu's idea to bump the armor reduction to 40%, but the smite changes that he wants in conjunction with complete armor stripping that he wants would make him broken.

Vs unarmored targets is where it shines. Hit the eximus unit in the middle of the infested/corpus packs. In his current kit, it makes you choose between armor stripping or raw damage from his Smite, and I think that is a very balanced approach.

That said! That is why I've been pushing for that projectiles = energy idea, so there was some upside to raise strength for the ability.

I'm also going to say that I rather like where smite is currently. Its damage isn't particularly mind-blowing, of course, but if I had to consider oberon anything, I'd put him into the cc category more than anything. The fact that he CAN do good damage in certain situations is a very nice addition to the already-nice CC ability smite (see a napalm coming at yo uin he middle of a group of grineer? smite him, he's knocked down AND irradiated, which means he'll be doing your work for you for awhile). And of course, if the ability is already nice... and it gets buffed... people might take advantage of it, a la cataclysm. And then we'd have a nerf incoming onto oberon, which could possibly get overdone and leave oberon truly bad by the end of the rework. I don't think any of us want that.

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, Phalian said:

While I do love the idea of Smite being able to help with his energy problems, I would just like have Power Strength be beneficial. Think of this, what if each orb did a certain percent of the original target's max health regardless of the number of orbs? That would actually encourage Power Strength instead of Smite basically doing the same damage regardless of your Power Strength. 

As it stands, if Oberon did the full 35% to each target and his 4 was capable of stripping everything of all armor, he'd be capable of 3 shotting full rooms of unarmored targets regardless of level. Even if it were reduced to 10% it'd be too strong. He shouldn't be able to knockdown, apply radiation and puncture to, and clear a full room of level 9999 unarmored enemies in 10 presses of the 1 key. The scaling damage allows the ability to stay relevant. I guess the base damage can be raised, but I am against having 100% armor stripping and that great of damage potential. The fact it does as much raw damage as is it for the utility it provides is already what makes smite fantastic.

[Doomsknightmare]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

I know we all have a lot of differing ideas on how to FIX the problems we see, but we need an easy to agree on list of 'OK the Rework is going in a good Direction, but these things hold it back.' I do this because those working on the revisions will look and see 'oh none of these people can agree, so we're going to do nothing.' Content Creators are being listened to, so I'm hopeful something will be done. However they said in dev stream they are going to take the weekend off to look at the data. Let's give them some fairly major conssitant data points to look at.

Examples:
* Currently Oberon is very energy hungry with no real way of gaining energy outside of spending a mod slot on Rage.

* Reckoning's health orb drop only consistently drops orbs in missions where you don't need them because it cannot consistently kill enemies in missions where you would normally need health.

* Smite's scaling is hampered by the fact the scaling component splits amongst the secondary orbs.

* Reckoning Renewal, and Hallowed Ground need their ranges looked at since if they are supposed to synergize their ranges shouldn't be wildly differant.

I realize that there will be disagreements, and I ask that those posting not post solutions. Just 'these are all things that we can agree are shortcomings that hold this rework back. Note: I'm not touching Smite's Direct Dmage, or other 'numbers' because we will disagree. I'm looking for high level 'in general these are thngs that keep coming up over and over again either in personal experiance running missions or in discussions.'

 

DE pls just look at this man's summary, that's the commonly agreed issues of Broberon

[KX297]

2 hours ago, Pakon3ds said:

When something new comes to the game, one should take the time to test it and make up a well formed opinion about the item of interest. Also, one should not only say how bad a thing is. We should give new, constructive ideas about the product: what we see it's wrong but also how to fix it, so here is my review on the new Oberon. 

1: Smite.

The skill lacks base damage, with no mods it can’t kill a level 1 heavy gunner.

For it to work you need a group of enemies stacked, due to the range of the orbs being so low, and try to target the heavy unit, making the skill difficult to use in a real scenario.  Now with the use of stretch it gets to 18.5 meters, so you might have the chance to actually hit someone with the orbs.

You will need multiple casts of this skill to kill even the weakest enemy (via orbs), don’t expect to kill anyone with the initial damage. You can consume your entire energy pool (with primed flow) to kill a group of enemies (if you kill them) and yet the primary target will not be dead.

The strength mods affecting the number of orbs makes each impact of the orbs weaker than if you had no mods at all. When casted on a corrupted ancient level 85 this is what happens:

Level 85 butchers receiving 2300 damage per orb with no mods.

Level 85 butchers receiving 2100 damage per orb with 275% power strength… really.

2: Hallowed Ground.

This skill has improved with respect to the previous hallowed ground. Being a circular area around Oberon (as many other Warframe skills are) is one right step. The problem is: is not really a circular area, it only becomes circular if you mod for it with power range… And I need to ask… why? Why so many warframes can have free circular areas on skills but Oberon needs to mod for it?

With stretch you get 240º.  With overextended you get 301.5 º. So you actually need those two mods to make it 360º and start becoming a real ability. Now you get -60%  power strength due to the use of overextended, making the skill deal no damage at all (32 points of damage to level 85 butchers). Now what I have to say is: damage for this skill is not really a problem, you use this skill for the utility it brings: confusing enemies and making your team immune to status effect is really great. So what is the problem? Having to maximize range doesn’t only reduce the damage, which is irrelevant, it also reduces the status chance, which is a big part of this skill and half of its utility, getting only 6% status chance.

Another problem with the skill is the radius of the circle, being 20meters with max power range means it is only somewhat effective in a small defense map, and only for the status immunity, since the status chance for the enemies is almost taken out of the equation. 

Also, being casted on the ground has some problematic consequences, i will talk about them later. 

First, it needs to be circular, so either it is circular since the beginning, as many other abilities in the game, or make the scaling affect it in a different way, making the 360º achievable with less power range.

The range needs to be buffed if this ability is going to be used outside of small defense maps. With maxed power range, 20 meters is honestly not good at all.

Also, Renewal has an interaction with Hallowed Ground, making them synergize…  until you realize that having a good 360º Hallowed Ground affects negatively to renewal, and the initial heal, heal over time, and armor get completely reduced, so the synergy actually doesn’t exists.

3:  Renewal

You need A LOT of power strength to make the healing meaningful. Of course doing this will have a really heavy impact on the energy consumption, as well as in the duration of the buff. When maxed out for power strength, the armor gain is not even enough to get to the level of the base armor of some frames, and the chances of survive against medium level enemies is not that greatly improved.

Of course to get the armor buff you need to cast it on Hallowed ground, but we needed maxed range for that ability to become usable, so the power strength loss also reduces the armor we get with renewal and the healing. So, where is the synergy? Also, having renewal on, the buff and healing a few team mates has an absurd impact on the energy consumption.

4:Reckoning

The damage it deals is completely negligible. Around 600 damage to a level 40 Corrupted heavy gunner.

To deal extra damage the enemy needs to be affected by Radiation. The effective way to inflict radiation would be though Hallowed Ground, but the radius for this ability with maxed power range is 20 meters, while for reckoning is 35. So the ranges don’t match. Also, Hallowed ground is casted on the floor, while reckoning acts even if the enemy is above or below the player. To sum up: no synergy at all between this abilities.

Even with maxed out power strength plus energy conversion, it doesn’t get rid of all the enemy armor.

Blind duration extremely low, it is not even enough time to revive a fallen ally in an effective way. 

Current status of Oberon when modded:

To make the most out of Oberon there are a few basic things we need. First of all, some survivability, let’s go with Vitality.

Second: we need to max out power range if we want the orbs from smite to affect enemies, hallowed ground to be circular and with the maximum range possible, and reckoning to have a decent range. Overextended + Stretch.

Now we are at 40% power strength, making our heals, the number of orbs, the general “damage” of the Warframe as well as the status chance in Hallowed ground and the armor buff from Renewal a complete joke. So we need a little bit of power strength. With Transient Fortitude and Intensify we are at 125% power strength.

To make something close to useful with Oberon we need to use several skills in combination with each other. In addition, Renewal will drain energy per second and per target. We need Efficiency and a bigger energy pool urgently. Primed flow and Streamline. This leaves us with one single free slot, but we are at 73% duration, which is kind of relevant for Oberon, we need Primed Continuity. And the build is done.

Now we have maxed out range for all his abilities, the price?  The damage is completely negligible, the armor buff is only at 250 armor. The energy consumption is still really high, as the energy per target doesn’t get reduced with efficiency or duration. The blind form reckoning is at 5 seconds which is barely enough to pick up a fallen ally. The healing is completely ridiculous. And of course you need to use most of his abilities all the time to make something with them, and yet, they have serious issues fitting with each other.

Another option would be go with Rage and leave Streamline out. But it doesn’t change anything.

If you try a build with max power strength to make decent heals and give the armor bonus and hope that your team does the rest, as a support character, forget it, is way to inefficient energetically. 

To sum up, Oberon, right now, even with the “rework” is in a critical status. Inviable and ineffective. His abilities, that are supposed to work in combination with one another, doesn’t actually fit with each other.  The damage that Oberon can make with his skills is completely negligible, the survivability of the frame is mediocre even with the use of his abilities. The energy consumption of the Warframe is extremely high. The utilities, such as the blind, the armor reduction or the armor increase buff are just not enough even when maxed out  with mods.

How to make Oberon Work:

Smite:

Now the skill is interesting, damaging a primary target and hurting nearby enemies in the process, while they take a radiation proc… sounds amazing, it has the potential to be a great ability, there is no need to change this skill for another one. But as of right now is not balanced at all, the numbers need to be revisited if this skill is to work, and the damage mechanic needs to change if we are going to talk about scaling at all.

Base damage needs to be buffed (remember the level 1 gunner), and if the ability is to work at high levels it needs a different damage mechanic: Base damage + % of current health for the primary target.

% of damage for the orbs needs to scale with power strength if the damage is going to split between the orbs. And finally, the range needs to be buffed, making it possible to achieve at least 30 meters.

Hallowed ground:

This is where I feel the things get really ugly and this ability doesn’t need just an adjustment to the numbers, it needs a complete rework. Since it is the way your allies get the status immunity, the armor buff, and the most effective way of making the enemies take the radiation proc to make reckoning more effective. First, it needs to have the same range as Reckoning (radius).

It can’t be casted on the ground, since Reckoning  and Renewal affect enemies and allies that are above and below Oberon, Hallowed ground needs to apply not in a half circle on the floor, but on a sphere around Oberon. Make it a… Hallowed Winds, Hallowed Aura kind of thing. And just make it spherical this time, not hemispherical. The degrees thing is just absurd. This way the skills actually have the chance to interact with each other, if that is your goal.

Renewal:

Even if the amount of armor that Oberon gets (that is, if he has enough power strength) is not really that much, making a squishy ally have 500 armor is a really nice boost. Now Oberon himself as a support taking care of his allies with armor and heals etc, needs a bit more survivability, so make Oberon get more armor, maybe an extra % of armor for each ally affected could be a good idea.

As far as I can tell for what I have tested, the healing from Oberon is not meant to be an instant heal such as the one from trinity, but a constant more subtle healing over time that prevents people from getting really hurt. And that is good! But the problem is that the energy consumption is extremely high. Make it so the energy per target gets reduced with efficiency, that’s all.

Also, there is a really big issue with the range... 

Reckoning:

The damage it does right now is completely negligible even to medium level enemies, so that’s pretty much the same as nothing. If we want Oberon to scale, you could calculate the damage of the ability based on the number of targets affected + total hp from the enemies affected. So the higher the level of the enemies, the more damage it does, the higher the number of enemies affected, the more damage it does. It’s “reckoning” right?

Focus instead in the utility part of the skill if you dont want oberon to be a damage dealing frame. The blind duration has to improve by a lot, at least to give time to do something relevant, such as picking up a fallen ally with enough time to get ready for battle again. The armor reduction has to be able to reach 100% when you completely maximize power strength. At the end of the day… it’s reckoning.

Maybe an ability that has this potential would be way too much? So just focus on something, chose damage or utility. Make it deal damage and get 100% of the armor out. Make it 100% armor and blind. Make it damage and 8 seconds blind. It’s better to do a few things correctly than a lot of them with no relevant results at all.

 

So that’s my analysis, feedback and ideas about Oberon. I hope this is taken the right way and we manage to give this Warframe the status it deserves.

This pretty much sums up the issues I've faced and how I feel about Oberon. 

Hope DE doesn't just leave him as is.

(Nice summary, hope DE actually sees it).

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by KX297

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

So Oberon has a cool rework, but there have been a bunch of people complaining that he doesn't work as well as he should so here is my concept for a rework.

Smite: let it deal damage as a percentage of the opponents effective health. 

Also as a fun little possible, the percentage of damage done could be based around oberons damage reduction.

[Music4Therapy]

I for one believe Smite is fantastic the way that it is and if you want to know why than my argument is above in my last 2 posts.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[-Onyx-Phalian]

16 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

As it stands, if Oberon did the full 35% to each target and his 4 was capable of stripping everything of all armor, he'd be capable of 3 shotting full rooms of unarmored targets regardless of level. Even if it were reduced to 10% it'd be too strong. He shouldn't be able to knockdown, apply radiation and puncture to, and clear a full room of level 9999 unarmored enemies in 10 presses of the 1 key. The scaling damage allows the ability to stay relevant. I guess the base damage can be raised, but I am against having 100% armor stripping and that great of damage potential. The fact it does as much raw damage as is it for the utility it provides is already what makes smite fantastic.

You do know Armor exists right? I mean it would wipe out Butchers if you hit a Heavy Gunner but other than that, it wouldn't do much. I am not saying it has to stay at 35%, just that this method would allow it to actually deal more damage with Power Strength. Scaling armor would help this from going off the rails but internal Testing by DE would be able to dictate a more balanced percentage as 35% per orb would be too strong (perhaps 10% per orb maybe?). 

[Sorrows_End]

A follow up to the revision I posted a while back, which I've chosen to revisit now that Oberon's rework is currently relevant. While his rework does work quite well thus far, some abilities are simply rendered useless, and the synergy with others seems rather forced. The idea of Oberon being a jack of all trades is difficult when he has only 4 abilities to work with, in my opinion at least. I'm sticking with the abilities I had with the first iteration of the revision for the most part, other abilities seem fine as they are but could use a minor tweak here and there.

1. Judgement: Oberon cycles through 4 different methods of judgement, allowing him unique methods in striking down the enemy.

1a. Smite: same as before, no need for a change.

1b. Sunlight Spear: a fairly complex power, Oberon charges a sunlight spear, maintaining it as long as the power button is held down. There are three levels of charge, at the first, it will deal 500 base damage and peel off 40% of armor, at the second, it will deal 800 base damage and peel off 75% of armor, and at the third level of charge, it will deal 1200 base damage and peel off 100% of armor while dealing radial damage. each charge costs an extra 25 energy, and spears have travel time (albeit a short one). At the third level of charge however, spears will track enemies. Armor debuff is temporary.

1c. Seeking Hunters: Oberon summons 3/5/7/9 woodland spirits that will fly about the battlefield firing beams of radiation at foes. These woodland spirits will be vengeful souls of war, and thus be depicted as the skulls of vicious beasts. The spirits will occasionally give pulses of health to allies. They will fly about very quickly, avoiding a great deal of gunfire this way, and will draw attention to themselves to reduce stress on Oberon and allies. Enemies killed by the woodland spirits are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust, because that would be awesome.

1d. Ravenous Crows: Oberon dispels into a swarm of flesh eating crows, flying about the battlefield totally invincible, but not invisible. Enemies caught in the crows will begin to panic. If Oberon reforms over an enemy that is panicking, he will automatically perform a finisher on them with his melee. Damage from the crows is rather light.

2. Hallowed Ground: Maintaining the same mechanics and fashion as found in the current rework. However, any enemy caught in the initial cast of hallowed ground's area are impaled by roots, and held there for the duration of hallowed ground. When allies strike the enemies that are restrained, a small amount of health is rewarded to them.

3. Renewal: They got it right, no need for a change, aside from reworking its energy economy a bit.

4. Reckoning: This ability needs some work in my opinion. We should maintain the current synergy with it, but more should be added as well. Enemies defeated by Reckoning will create a small area of hallowed ground, and kubrow spirits will crawl out of the hallowed ground while it is active. Let the wild hunt begin!

 

As far as his passive and current stats, they seem to be in a good spot right now. Some people say that his current rework is doing just fine, but an overhaul would be a nice change of pace for him, I think. What do you guys think?

And here's a picture of a cat:

[Music4Therapy]

4 minutes ago, Phalian said:

You do know Armor exists right? I mean it would wipe out Butchers if you hit a Heavy Gunner but other than that, it wouldn't do much. I am not saying it has to stay at 35%, just that this method would allow it to actually deal more damage with Power Strength. Scaling armor would help this from going off the rails but internal Testing by DE would be able to dictate a more balanced percentage as 35% per orb would be too strong (perhaps 10% per orb maybe?). 

AGAIN

Quote

As it stands, if Oberon did the full 35% to each target and his 4 was capable of stripping everything of all armor, he'd be capable of 3 shotting full rooms of unarmored targets regardless of level. Even if it were reduced to 10% it'd be too strong. He shouldn't be able to knockdown, apply radiation and puncture to, and clear a full room of level 9999 unarmored enemies in 10 presses of the 1 key. The scaling damage allows the ability to stay relevant. I guess the base damage can be raised, but I am against having 100% armor stripping and that great of damage potential. The fact it does as much raw damage as is it for the utility it provides is already what makes smite fantastic.

jesus its like you didn't even read it.

 

But hell, lets make Oberon press 1 to win. You realize that his 1 at max str makes 16 orbs? That would mean the sum of the damage of all the orbs would be an ungodly amount. Why have that much power in a spammable ability?

Edited April 30, 2017 by Music4Therapy