Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Zeclem]

Just now, InsanityKey said:

1.  I think we're seeing who is really toxic here if getting hit with one bullet amongst the mobs of enemies that spawn at those stages makes you "S#&$".

2.  I could go to 10 different rooms and take screenshots of how they're 100+m but I don't really wanna hop in a bunch of missions just to do that.  If that's the largest room you've seen, you clearly don't explore the game much.

3.  No, they really don't.  They give you the duration of the knockdown (We'll say ~6 seconds MAYBE) or a blind (~4).  His heals only give a burst at the initial cast.  After that it's just the health per second value, which is not hundreds btw.  Nice toxicity.

4.  No, because the point was not whether or not it made them able to tank.  But for some reason you don't seem to be able to grasp that because you need a reason to try to sound correct.

1-if nobody in your team can stay alive yeah you suck. thats the end of it. no frame can ever help you more than oberons 3 there. this is a fact.

2-you claimed you have to be bundled up. thats not bundling up range. at all. if youre not staying in that range youre simply not playing with your team. at all. that range is by no means short. if thats short most abilities in game are too short for you too. most of them go around 25-30 as base, just letting you know.

3-https://gyazo.com/3449c1c870bc2ee664b5c3abb345dd0d ive said it heals hundreds. and it does heals hundreds initial heal or not. and i WILL be toxic if you keep saying stupid crap. i like how you totally ignored the rad procs duration added to all that cc btw keep going champ.

4-the point is you said "you cant say a frame is a tank just cus of its mods cus the mod applies in some proportions to every other frame" and the fact is you are just so wrong its incredible. yet you still try to push your dumb ideas and refuse to see you are wrong. youre not providing any kind of hard math facts to your arguments, just keep saying "its that way cus i say so" and reject the solid hard proof given to you. yes, i will try my best to knock some sense into that thick skull of yours but i can see i should just give up now cus its pointless to argue with people such as yourself. off you go.

[Zeclem]

11 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

With due respect, that's not the case. Whilst Oberon is better than he was, does not mean he is not still within realm for improvement.

One of the largest issues he has currently is how Renewal's 'Drain per target' does not play nicely with how broadly it applies in regards to targets. Specifically, it works on summon units where it didn't used to:

• Nyx's Mind Control Target
• Loki's Decoy
• Atlas' Rumblers
• Nekros' Shadows of the Dead
• Inaros' Sand Shadows
• Possibly Titania's Razorflies

All serve as potential additional recipients of Renewal's effect. This is nice in theory until you factor in the 'per target' energy cost and thus, the more units spawned by these skills, the harsher on the unlucky Oberon's Energy reserves, should they catch them in the effect. This is why a Nekros' Shadows are a very awkward situation at moment, especially if you're trying to reapply the effect to members after they lost it, be it a Nullifier or the like.

Were Renewal a flat drain regardless of Target number, this interaction with Summon abilities wouldn't be an issue; providing Armour and some bolstered uptime for a Nekros' Shadows could be a nice bit of teamwork, as it'd give the Nekros more out of them by extension. The only one whereby it's strictly redundant is Nyx's Mind Control target, if not outright counter-productive as the target is under a Damage Delay until Mind Control ends, where any received healing Oberon applies may mean it's still alive longer than you'd perhaps like, such as a Bombard or Napalm.

After this, Hallowed Ground on it's own is somewhat...lacking. It's the Foundation to Renewal and Reckoning's expanded effects, but otherwise alone it exists as a strangely shaped field of CC immunity. This leads to the first issue it has with Reckoning; Reckoning is a Spherical effect, ergo any shortcoming on Hallowed Ground's application will render some targets unaffected by the effect. To counter this you can go 2, spin 180, 2, 4, but...Why not simply have it as a proper circular area and go from there? Saves energy, and reduces issues with misses. Furthermore, a properly spherical area provides a party with more applicable ground to benefit from it, thus easing the provision of Iron Renewal bolstering.

Nothing major, but so far as my experiences so far go with Oberon since the changes, these would help towards improving his overall energy economy and, by extension, allow him to sustain the party for longer. Even gives him a unique capacity, if it allows him to sustain other player's summons without his energy crashing from trying as it stands now.

as far as im concerned its a bug(renewal healing non players/pets), cus it didnt work that way before and it wasnt on his patch notes. so ive ignored it. 

for hallowed ground, you cant compare a skills value solely on its own use. you have to compare the synergies it has with the rest of his kit. ive never felt i had issues with that skill at all.

[IceColdHawk]

I'm of the believal that DE doesn't really want to have oberon to be endgame viable considering how easy and early it is to get him. Sure, he is better than before. But that's about it. Once i brought him to void mot i saw the problems leaking all over the place. Renewal isn't strong enough to take care of enemies heavy damage. The rest of the abilities were low ranged and non-duration scaled radiation procs that couldn't really help. Nyx chaos alone would have been so much more useful in this situation considering it's range, short stun and long duration. She also got absorb/assimilate for that tank feeling so there's that.

So overall i'd say he's a solid frame for beginning times especially since the healing can be quite useful there. And i will also mention the very good synergy of renewal for frames like mesa or chroma who got high damage resistances to boost with and make advantage of that health reg. But once things get serious, you're better off with any other frame except from hydroid maybe.

40 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

1.  I think we're seeing who is really toxic here if getting hit with one bullet amongst the mobs of enemies that spawn at those stages makes you "S#&$".

Don't bother with him. All he can do is using fallacies over fallacies and being hypocritical on an extreme level. Saying things like "synoid simulor is stronger than ever" or "oberon has strong cc" while at the same time saying you should learn to play the game. Just move on with those who can have some logical discussion. By the way, respect to you for retaining a cool head.

[Jobistober]

It all comes down to opinion and preference. Oberon is a highly versatile frame and no one build is going to meet every need and situation. For me, he's all about CC and a little support when needed. I have a couple different mod combos for him depending on what kind of mission I'm going into.

[Zeclem]

@IceColdHawk damn youre still salty at that? lol k. also if you could notice ive given actual proof to my arguments while he just kept repeating the same nonsense like he did while saying "trin has better cc than oberon" but i can see how you like agreeing with him. that blind+rad+kd of his ult is definitely a bad cc. keep using crit builds on a status weapon pal. i'd also really like to see those hypocricies ive said. if you actually know what the words you use mean.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Zeclem

[(XBOX)rocketstar31]

Personally, I find the rework good, but at the same time a small buff couldn't have gone wrong.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

Has anyone mentioned yet that Equinox is a better "jack of all trades" frame than Oberon? You can compare Nehza vs Rhino as somewhat equal, but Oberon is not even close to Equinox.

[Gemenai]

1 - does a bit more damage now - nice

2 - is wider to the sides now, but less in terms of frontal length( also still S#&$ty animation in my opinion), lost its armor bonus

3 - gained toggle and "synergie", granting bonus armor (which even if modded heavily towards power strength, is meh), but makes you very reliant on energy orbs and your teammates to be standing on Hallowed Ground at the time of impact to even gain the "synergie" bonus armor; also range got nerfed (a flat out increase of travel speed for the projectiles or a steadily increasing speed bonus over the distance covered had also done the trick)

4 - gained extra damage, but still only grants a chance of dropping a health orb on kill with this ability; also the range is still S#&$ty as it was before the "rework"

 

There are defintely some nice things with this "rework", but the fact that he is still energy hungry, he kinda now has to sacrifice efficiency and mods towards power strength to even make his abilites somewhat good now and the range nerf on Renewal in combination of it now being a toggle (and therefore blocking energy gain through various sources) killed the frame for me.

 

Before I used a build with 183% duration, 130% efficiency, 160% range and 100% strength. In addition I used Vitality, Steel Fiber and Rage in it. Having 61% frame use with my Oberon (3015 hours on Steam) I can say, that I liked the old Oberon better. Sure he now can do somewhat a bit more damage, but that was never why you would use Oberon. If you want damage you take a damage frame. You take Oberon as jack of all traits to supplement and support your team, by doing just a bit of damage, (counter)heal damage, apply status effects and CC and overall midgate damage to your team through direct and indirect means. Damage should have been the least of priorities here.

 

In my opinion this so called "rework" definetly has gone the wrong direction and failed.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Gemenai

[Ceadeus]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

1-if nobody in your team can stay alive yeah you suck. thats the end of it. no frame can ever help you more than oberons 3 there. this is a fact.

2-you claimed you have to be bundled up. thats not bundling up range. at all. if youre not staying in that range youre simply not playing with your team. at all. that range is by no means short. if thats short most abilities in game are too short for you too. most of them go around 25-30 as base, just letting you know.

3-https://gyazo.com/3449c1c870bc2ee664b5c3abb345dd0d ive said it heals hundreds. and it does heals hundreds initial heal or not. and i WILL be toxic if you keep saying stupid crap. i like how you totally ignored the rad procs duration added to all that cc btw keep going champ.

4-the point is you said "you cant say a frame is a tank just cus of its mods cus the mod applies in some proportions to every other frame" and the fact is you are just so wrong its incredible. yet you still try to push your dumb ideas and refuse to see you are wrong. youre not providing any kind of hard math facts to your arguments, just keep saying "its that way cus i say so" and reject the solid hard proof given to you. yes, i will try my best to knock some sense into that thick skull of yours but i can see i should just give up now cus its pointless to argue with people such as yourself. off you go.

 

24

Sorry, had a dog to take care of.  I'm just gonna go ahead and skip the first 3 since you're gonna be toxic about it, but I'm gonna point out this for the 4th.  

 

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

youre not providing any kind of hard math facts to your arguments

 

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

You don't seem to understand what "proportional" means.  So let me try to help you with a simple math problem. If I have a 1:4 ratio, and I increase both numbers by 100%, that gives me a 2:8 ratio.  What does that break down to?  Wow.  1:4.  They're both PROPORTIONALLY the same.  Yes they're bigger but as far as determining what role each frame fits into, it's not going to change.

 

 

You don't understand what the word math means either?  There's definitely some math there buddy :)

Edited May 9, 2017 by InsanityKey

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

I'm of the believal that DE doesn't really want to have oberon to be endgame viable considering how easy and early it is to get him. Sure, he is better than before. But that's about it. Once i brought him to void mot i saw the problems leaking all over the place. Renewal isn't strong enough to take care of enemies heavy damage. The rest of the abilities were low ranged and non-duration scaled radiation procs that couldn't really help. Nyx chaos alone would have been so much more useful in this situation considering it's range, short stun and long duration. She also got absorb/assimilate for that tank feeling so there's that.

So overall i'd say he's a solid frame for beginning times especially since the healing can be quite useful there. And i will also mention the very good synergy of renewal for frames like mesa or chroma who got high damage resistances to boost with and make advantage of that health reg. But once things get serious, you're better off with any other frame except from hydroid maybe.

Don't bother with him. All he can do is using fallacies over fallacies and being hypocritical on an extreme level. Saying things like "synoid simulor is stronger than ever" or "oberon has strong cc" while at the same time saying you should learn to play the game. Just move on with those who can have some logical discussion. By the way, respect to you for retaining a cool head.

Oberon is completely end-game viable, I've taken him to sorties many times and come out top damage and least damage taken and kept my team alive via heals and armor buffs which mitigate damage.

 

Before the rework you could take him to a sortie but it would have definitely been a struggle as he lacked the damage and was mostly just good for CC via reckoning and the fuzz carpet of doom down hallways.

[Hopakkiin]

Just now, SilvaDreams said:

Oberon is completely end-game viable, I've taken him to sorties many times and come out top damage and least damage taken and kept my team alive via heals and armor buffs which mitigate damage.

 

Before the rework you could take him to a sortie but it would have definitely been a struggle as he lacked the damage and was mostly just good for CC via reckoning and the fuzz carpet of doom down hallways.

I need to throw in, that I usually run sorties with most damage taken, but least deaths. Making the point, that you can suck it up if you are Oberon. Oberon is one well balanced frame.

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

I need to throw in, that I usually run sorties with most damage taken, but least deaths. Making the point, that you can suck it up if you are Oberon. Oberon is one well balanced frame.

Well I'm good at avoiding damage short of having to revive team mates, then I end up soaking up a lot of damage with the heals going.

[malekas]

5 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

I need to throw in, that I usually run sorties with most damage taken, but least deaths. Making the point, that you can suck it up if you are Oberon. Oberon is one well balanced frame.

Try running a sortie without Renewal. Does he still feel balanced? 

 

Every time someone defends the rework they're only talking about Renewal. Yeah, Renewal is great (though I still the energy drain is too high), but I kinda wish the rest of his kit was useful too. 

[Hopakkiin]

1 minute ago, malekas said:

Try running a sortie without Renewal. Does he still feel balanced? 

 

Every time someone defends the rework they're only talking about Renewal. Yeah, Renewal is great (though I still the energy drain is too high), but I kinda wish the rest of his kit was useful too. 

Wow, that is like cutting of your leg and still going into battle. It's like packing rocks for a ruck.

[FelixGrief]

After reading through (my previous thread on Oberon) I received a lot of positive feedback about my suggested changes. I've made some tweaks to the numbers for balancing purposes.

 

But why?

 

THE COMMUNITY MUST (for the most part) AGREE ON ONE LAST SET OF CHANGES FOR OBERON

One possible reason as to why DE is hesitant to implement too many changes is because of the varied opinions the community has on what Oberon *should* be. In addition, DE has the "give an inch and they'll take a mile" mindset (which has some merit). Thus, my goal is to reach out to the Warframe subreddit and forums to decide what our favorite Goat-Deer King should be able to do.

Once a consensus has been reached, I will post the Final Version of the changes to the WF forums feedback section. If there is demand for it, I will post the Final version here before I post it to the feedback forums.

WHAT CAN I DO?

• DON'T STOP TALKING ABOUT OBERON!
• Support the suggested changes, or don't and give suggestions! Keep in mind that DE has stated they do NOT want to redo his kit (Devstream #90), so suggestions that incorporate getting rid of entire abilities will likely not be considered.

• BE RESPECTFUL! I cannot stress this point enough. Whether you love or hate what DE has done to Oberon, don't forget that we're trying to reach out to actual people. Insulting specific employees does nothing but invalidate us. I understand that we're frustrated, but turn that frustration into passion - For Oberon!

• SPREAD THE WORD - DON'T GIVE UP! Whether you're a reddit lurker, discord ~~S#&$poster~~ memer, or YouTube content creator, it's imperative that we KEEP. THE DISCUSSION. GOING. Heck, you might even want to talk about him using the in-game general chat. A lot of casual players are not familiar with what goes on 'behind the scenes' so to speak.

THE PROPOSED CHANGES

OBERON’S PURPOSE

Oberon does not have a purpose yet; my proposed changes would allow Oberon to excel at offense, defense, support, and crowd control.

SMITE

Smite’s primary orb does not deal much damage; in addition, there is an issue with Smite’s secondary orbs. The orbs convert 35% of a target's health to damage dealing shards. Unfortunately, the damage dealt by these shards is mitigated by an enemy’s armor.

Right now, it clears the star chart, but does not fare well against higher-leveled enemies. Increase base damage by 15%. Buff the secondary orbs to deal 5%-10% initial target's TOTAL health, thereby rewarding power strength.

HALLOWED GROUND

Hallowed Ground removes allies status effects and deals radiation damage to enemies. When allies are on HG when Renewal is cast, they receive a small armor buff “Iron Renewal”. However, this is only in effect as long as they are standing on Hallowed Ground. This limits mobility and essentially grounds Oberon to a defensive frame.

Give Hallowed Ground innate “Iron Renewal” instead of forcing “synergy” with Oberon’s 3. In Oberon’s current state, he’d need about 75 energy JUST to give his allies an armor buff, a buff that only allies on HG would even receive. Reduce the energy cost of Hallowed Ground to a base of 25-30.

That being said, Hallowed Ground does suffer from range and casting issues. Increase its base range to 18, and have it cast AROUND Oberon NOT in front of him. HG should surround Oberon similar to how Frost’s Ice Bubble surrounds him and should not be placed in front of him.

Hallowed Ground is also difficult to see visually. Give HG textures similar to the upcoming Earth remaster, perhaps? Maybe add some grass and mushrooms (which could be turned off in settings if it’s an issue). As it stands now, HG is not visually appealing.

In addition, I propose that Oberon receive an augment which would replace “Hallowed Eruption,” but function just like Chroma’s “Everlasting Ward.” Allies that leave HG would retain the effect for 100% of HG’s remaining duration (at max). There would be no penalty, as sacrificing a mod slot with a cost of 9 is a large enough penalty as it stands.

RENEWAL

Renewal heals allies and grants a small armor buff. As stated previously, take “Iron Renewal” and give it to HG. In addition, I propose Renewal be buffed to restore shields. Keep the energy cost at a flat 2 per second, regardless of how many allies are affected.

Renewal should receive a range increase. While affinity range (or 50 m) would be ideal (Trinity’s bless reaches 50m max), Oberon’s range may not need to be as extreme. HOWEVER, Renewal should show the number of allies within range – display that number on top of Renewal’s symbol.

Oberon’s “Phoenix Renewal” augment should have its cooldown reduced from 90 seconds to 30 seconds. If allies go down, they will likely go down more frequently than once every 90 seconds. 30 seconds is a fair balance and would synergize well with HG’s bleedout-timer extension.

RECKONING

Reckoning is lifts enemies into the air and slams them down. Its status chance should increase to 15%/25%/50%/75% (affected by Power Strength) from the flat 15% it is now. Enemies affected by Reckoning should receive a 35% reduction in armor (5% increase from default which only affects enemies on HG). The blind caused by Reckoning should be increased 4/5/6/7 seconds (affected by duration).

Oberon’s “Hallowed Reckoning” augment would be changed to allow enemies affected by Reckoning to spawn up to 4 radiation pockets which give allies 10/15/20 energy per pulse for a total of 40/60/80 energy (think a small energy restore/Trin's 'Energy Vampire') and inflict radiation on enemies.

While 20 energy per pulse doesn't sound like a lot, 4 pockets of radiation which give up to 80 energy is a LOT of energy, which might allow for Oberon to compete with Trin. In addition, allies would have to wait in the radiation bubble, making them vulnerable. Oberon wouldn't have as much control over where the radiation pockets will be as Trin would with an EV target. Risk vs reward would be in play.

Enemies will no longer have a chance to drop a health sphere due to Reckoning. INSTEAD, Oberon’s passive will change…

OBERON’S PASSIVE

Oberon’s current passive is designed to make Kavats and Kubrows stronger. However, given that pets do not have vacuum and DE does not want to give it to them, players have little motivation to use pets. Therefore, I suggest that Oberon’s passive change to affect irradiated targets, something Oberon excels at creating.

UNNATURAL RETRIBUTION

Enemies affected by radiation have a 60% chance to drop a health orb upon death.

This change would allow him to synergize EXTREMELY well with Equinox, Loki, and Nekros.

tl;dr Make Oberon’s abilities less energy hungry, increase Smite’s damage, make a mobile Hallowed Ground augment, buff Renewal, Reckoning should strip armor + deal radiation damage, and Oberon’s passive should guarantee irradiated enemies drop health orbs on death.

[Wrum]

holy **** give it a rest already he works just fine.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Wrum

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

Isn't the rework finalized, HEs been only getting fixes as far as I've seen for the past weekish or so and minor changes.

[MirageKnight]

Just now, Wrum said:

he works just fine.

That's a matter of opinion...to you he works fine. To a lot of other players, he doesn't. The OP is entitled to voice their legitimate concerns in a constructive manner, which they have clearly done.

[(XBOX)Senor Twix]

Your post was honestly a waste of time on your part. I say that because a rework literally just happened and you're begging for another.

It won't happen.

Leave it be already.

[(XBOX)Senor Twix]

1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

That's a matter of opinion...to you he works fine. To a lot of other players, he doesn't. The OP is entitled to voice their legitimate concerns in a constructive manner, which they have clearly done.

Technically speaking, every frame works fine. They do what they are designed to do, but this isn't a "fix" that the OP wants, it's another change that really doesn't need to happen after there already was a massive overhaul.

[AcceI]

Unreal. another rework eh?

 

What did DE do to Oberon to make you do these documentary threads for him?  

He was already crappy last I remember so did DE wet the bed trying to make something productive out of that **** Paladin?

 

They should let him be one of the starter frames if he isn't already and move on. Keep that PoS just the way he is and give poor ol Obederp his golden upgrade.

[Jobistober]

36 minutes ago, malekas said:

Try running a sortie without Renewal. Does he still feel balanced? 

 

Every time someone defends the rework they're only talking about Renewal. Yeah, Renewal is great (though I still the energy drain is too high), but I kinda wish the rest of his kit was useful too. 

Why would anyone do that?

And if we could refrain from turning this into a bash-anyone-who-likes-Oberon thread, that'd be great.

[(PSN)theelix]

Really weird to respond to someone with a username that I used to have at one point. Nostalgic.

I like your ideas, except Reckoning giving energy, but requires you to be vulnerable to get it? Seems unnecessary. It would be a mini-game that wouldn't be fun to try to do in higher levels. 

[Hopakkiin]

1 minute ago, Jobistober said:

Why would anyone do that?

And if we could refrain from turning this into a bash-anyone-who-likes-Oberon thread, that'd be great.

I've liked Oberon before he was a frame. Come at me everyone.

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, InsanityKey said:

Sorry, had a dog to take care of.  I'm just gonna go ahead and skip the first 3 since you're gonna be toxic about it, but I'm gonna point out this for the 4th.  

 

 

You don't understand what the word math means either?  There's definitely some math there buddy :)

oh its that "oh youre toxic im ignoring your argument lalala" excuse. make sound arguments and i wont be toxic. or you can be like icecoldhawk and stay salty about it i dont really care.

i also enjoyed how a mathematical term translation that is completely irrelevant to the actual argument is your only "mathematical point of argument". thanks man i really appreciate the laughs. oh btw if you argue like this i and a good majority of people will be "toxic" cus ignorance can get annoying.