Why People Put Elemental Mods on Low Status Weapons?

[TheClayTR]

I've seen it a couple times when I was looking for builds on YouTube. They were like "This weapon has low status chance so we should put raw element mods (%90).". But isn't it silly to put elemental mods on a low status weapon since it's chance to be seen is low. They weren't shotguns.

[SneakyBeakyIvarr]

Elemental damage isn't only about status procs (Although they do benefit greatly from them). Since certain enemies are weak to certain damage types, using those damage types against those enemies can give you a pretty good boost to damage.

For example. damage types such as toxin do great against the Corpus even without status procs since the damage ignores shields, effectively cutting enemy health in half.

[Cyborg-Rox]

Wow, okay uhh, you know there are more to damage types than the status effects they proc, right? I mean, it's kinda in the name. 

[Gelkor]

Elemental damage always deals damage, not when it procs. Stats procs are something different.

[KnightCole]

Elemental mods are for extra damage, its more silly to not add them then to add them to a low status weapon. 

You do know that when you fire 1 bullet, that bullet's damage is all 3 or 4(if elemental), damage classes in 1, modified by the mob's resistances.

The one question I have is how does it work when, like shooting Grineer, you get Cloned Flesh and Armor, and you hit them with Slash?  Is it say 10  dmg +50% for slash vs flesh for 15, -50% for Armor, resulting in 7.5 dmg for the Slash of the gun?  Or does armor block the + Cloned Flesh stat?

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by KnightCole

[(PSN)iBoiz]

Elemental damage is a pure damage, its doesn't depend on status chance.

Elemental status procs give an additional effect, ex lower armor, freeze enemies etc. This one depends on weapon's status chance.

[Arkvold]

One thing to remember is that elemental mods work differently from IPS mods when it comes to adding damage.

If you have a mod that's, say, +90% slash damage, the game takes your total slash damage, and increases it by 90%.  If you take a mod that's, say, +90% fire damage, the game takes your total IPS damage, and adds +90% to it as fire damage.

As a result, even a low-status weapon can benefit from a high-value elemental mod more than a high-value IPS mod.

In addition, there's the point SneakyBeakyIvarr made - elemental mods, even if the weapon's status chance isn't good enough to land procs reliably, still provide a bonus against certain defense types.  Running Gas against light Infested, even you never see a gas proc, will still provide additional damage versus other damage types.

[Sziklamester]

Elemental damage is love elemental damage is life.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

And not only do elemental mods add pure damage to the weapons, using specific elements against specific enemies, like corrosive against heavy gunners or radiation against bombards, will add a damage multiplier for that specific element.

[Nazrethim]

59 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Elemental mods are for extra damage, its more silly to not add them then to add them to a low status weapon. 

You do know that when you fire 1 bullet, that bullet's damage is all 3 or 4(if elemental), damage classes in 1, modified by the mob's resistances.

The one question I have is how does it work when, like shooting Grineer, you get Cloned Flesh and Armor, and you hit them with Slash?  Is it say 10  dmg +50% for slash vs flesh for 15, -50% for Armor, resulting in 7.5 dmg for the Slash of the gun?  Or does armor block the + Cloned Flesh stat?

 

Armor is calculated first.

Say you hit for 100 Slash, damage going to health is 50 (-50% Armor reduction) then that damage is increased by the weakness to Slash damage on health (+50% of 50) so you deal 75 damage. Each damage type is calculated individually like that and the final damage is the sum of all damage types already calculated.

There's also the fact that damage overflowing from shield ignores armor entirely and goes straigh to health, hence why Inaros and Nidus are so tanky: their armor isn't ignored by shield damage overflow because they don't have shields to begin with. It's the reason we've been asking for Shield gating, that way the damage to shield is confined entirely to shield, so when they do damage our health we get the full protection from armor.

[rapt0rman]

25 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Armor is calculated first.

Say you hit for 100 Slash, damage going to health is 50 (-50% Armor reduction) then that damage is increased by the weakness to Slash damage on health (+50% of 50) so you deal 75 damage. Each damage type is calculated individually like that and the final damage is the sum of all damage types already calculated.

There's also the fact that damage overflowing from shield ignores armor entirely and goes straigh to health, hence why Inaros and Nidus are so tanky: their armor isn't ignored by shield damage overflow because they don't have shields to begin with. It's the reason we've been asking for Shield gating, that way the damage to shield is confined entirely to shield, so when they do damage our health we get the full protection from armor.

You've got a bunch of things confused, finisher damage is the only thing that can touch health through armor (and it doesn't have any resistance modifiers it's just 1:1). Slash damage will have a negative resistance modifier(-15% for ferrite, and -50% for alloy) ON TOP of armor mitigation. You have to remove 100% of the armor to get to health. Also resistances are calculated before armor, so it would be:

(100(slash)-15%(ferrite))-50%(300 armor)= 42.5

And lastly, the stuff about shield overflow bypassing armor is just not true at all.

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

You've got a bunch of things confused, finisher damage is the only thing that can touch health through armor (and it doesn't have any resistance modifiers it's just 1:1). Slash damage will have a negative resistance modifier(-15% for ferrite, and -50% for alloy) ON TOP of armor mitigation. You have to remove 100% of the armor to get to health. Also resistances are calculated before armor, so it would be:

(100(slash)-15%(ferrite))-50%(300 armor)= 42.5

And lastly, the stuff about shield overflow bypassing armor is just not true at all.

oh excuse me. I meant only say that armor resitances are calculated first and health resitances are calculated second, didn't mention the armor mitigation at all.

Also, the damage overflowing from shield ignoring armor has been a standing bug as old as Multishot not using additional ammo. And I can tell that because my Ash Prime is actually tankier on No Shield Nightmare missions than normal, just by virtue of not having shield. I can't wait for Warframe rivens to boost my health and scrap that shield, unless DE somehow fixes that damage overflow.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Nazrethim

[NinjaZeku]

Relevant:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0#Overview_Table

[rapt0rman]

6 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

oh excuse me. I meant only say that armor resitances are calculated first and health resitances are calculated second, didn't mention the armor mitigation at all.

Also, the damage overflowing from shield ignoring armor has been a standing bug as old as Multishot not using additional ammo. And I can tell that because my Ash Prime is actually tankier on No Shield Nightmare missions than normal, just by virtue of not having shield. I can't wait for Warframe rivens to boost my health and scrap that shield, unless DE somehow fixes that damage overflow.

Not to nitpick, but your second paragraph is specifically suggesting that slash will be reduced by armor while at the same time getting a damage bonus against health. Health resistances aren't calculated at all untill armor is removed.

And I'm genuinely not finding anything anywhere about the shield overflow. There have been times where shields were bugged and had armor, but nothing about armor getting ignored by sheilds.

[Forcereborn]

In my opinion, the confusion for new players can rise from the new idea of putting symbols on mod descriptions. They changed from
+X% [type name] damage
to
+X% [type symbol] [type name] (or maybe it's vice versa, it's not important)
which, to me, is like saying, for example: +90% Fire Fire

Now, if they want to associate symbols to damage types, it's fine by me, but wouldn't it have been more meaningful like this:
+X% [type symbol] damage
At least new players would immediately understand that those mods add damage, and the status chance has nothing to do with it.

[Nazrethim]

24 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

And I'm genuinely not finding anything anywhere about the shield overflow. There have been times where shields were bugged and had armor, but nothing about armor getting ignored by sheilds.

Pick a well armored frame that has shields, like Excalibur or Valkyr, then go to a No Shield NM, compare how much damage you take vs same NM enemies on similar level range when you have shield. You will notice that whatever attacks break the shield will deal more damage to you than damage you take while your only have your health exposed. Ballistas are particularly effective for this since they have slow fire rate and predictable shots.

[KnightCole]

7 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Armor is calculated first.

Say you hit for 100 Slash, damage going to health is 50 (-50% Armor reduction) then that damage is increased by the weakness to Slash damage on health (+50% of 50) so you deal 75 damage. Each damage type is calculated individually like that and the final damage is the sum of all damage types already calculated.

There's also the fact that damage overflowing from shield ignores armor entirely and goes straigh to health, hence why Inaros and Nidus are so tanky: their armor isn't ignored by shield damage overflow because they don't have shields to begin with. It's the reason we've been asking for Shield gating, that way the damage to shield is confined entirely to shield, so when they do damage our health we get the full protection from armor.

Thats informative, and yeah, suddenly shield gating would be an immensely important aspect to get.  Would help frames like Ember and Vauban actually take a hit....

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:17 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Relevant:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0#Overview_Table

You know that graph can be somewhat misleading in regards to toxin/gas because both apply poison status.  One needs to keep in mind the following also.

Gas damage's status effect is Poison Cloud, which applies two separate instances of Toxin damage (notably, not Gas damage) on the target and all enemies within 5 meters of the target:

1. Immediate damage equal to (Base Damage  + Toxin Damage) ÷ 2.
2. 9 ticks of damage over 8 seconds, each equal to 125% of the weapon's total Toxin damage.

This could lead one to think that Gas inherits the same bonuses that Toxin has on top of it's normal ones.

Edited May 29, 2017 by DatDarkOne
correcting the formatting.