Why Nidus Prime will NEVER be a thing

[CaelThunderwing]

 

7 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Lore consistency post update 18? 
You mean like how frames used to die in a way that implied that the Frame and operator are the same thing? Like Mirage?
Heh, good luck with that one.

i think we can only saw about "Mirage's Death" in some manner something went Wrong w/ the somatic Link that trapped the operator 's Mind in the frame, or at the death of the frame it did something that ended up killing the operator. but w/ that in context consistency would mean all lost frames their operators outside potentially this are locked still in the "heart" asleep/in stasis out of Lotus's ability to awaken/revive them (and likely then this considered "Dead") *(because how'd this explain what happened to the original operator of the Limbo that was torn to the winds?)

there's a missing link we dont know yet about the original operators of these frames and to all the Tenno that are us the players, that have been awoken by the Lotus, Or just how many ships were in the void that caused the children to change. (kinda a logic there that we are likely only get told as "Online game plot device.")

 

6 hours ago, tbeest said:

Valkyr's description: "Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing."

Please explain to me how her prime having rage powers and her tormented skin makes sense

she may of been an Berserker before then and the Corpus only noticing this had been intensified due what they did/ just noting something that was underlying within this Valkyr  if the descriptions are anything but left to take as cannon at this point, that the changes the children all went thru after being recovered had changed them. it couldnt explain how say then the prime has higher stats than the one that was tormented , but atleast a idea why the powers are the same. (other than how Berserkers in most games are explained as a state of pretty much loosing themselves for the kill ) and valkyr post-corpus is just her snapping and going bat S#&$ insane. ?

 

for those two questions/arguments i might be talkin out my &#!. i just recently woke up and not all in the head yet but thats what first comes to mind.  just other than take in "Plot Device."

[phoenix1992]

10 minutes ago, CaelThunderwing said:

i think we can only saw about "Mirage's Death" in some manner something went Wrong w/ the somatic Link that trapped the operator 's Mind in the frame, or at the death of the frame it did something that ended up killing the operator. but w/ that in context consistency would mean all lost frames their operators outside potentially this are locked still in the "heart" asleep/in stasis out of Lotus's ability to awaken/revive them (and likely then this considered "Dead") *(because how'd this explain what happened to the original operator of the Limbo that was torn to the winds?)

there's a missing link we dont know yet about the original operators of these frames and to all the Tenno that are us the players, that have been awoken by the Lotus, Or just how many ships were in the void that caused the children to change. (kinda a logic there that we are likely only get told as "Online game plot device.")

Any piece of pre 18.0 lore can be spin out of context in order to fit the Operator narrative due to it being vague as hell.  To some extend I give credit when it is due with the lack of "Retcons" , but that extend goes only as far as "you had 2 years to end in 18.0, and in the next 2 years answers are yet to be given".  Fine Mirage was trapped - ok. Inaros? Limbo? Titania? They all "died", and while we can wave the "well if the frame dies so does the operator" flag, it does not hold much water in the long run. The second dream showed that Warframes are not as nearly as fragile, the War Within showed that Operators are not weaklings, The New Strange even showed us that Frame/Operator connection is a lot more questionable than we imagine. 
But back to the topic of Nidus - he actually fits the Pre War story line pretty clean and cut, considering that the Orokin developed the infestation to begin with. Of course they had some level of control over it up to one point.

PS: Valkyr's lore is actually reinforced by... Ordis. Battle rage technologies existed before the Tenno, a Warframe that focuses on that is not that far stretched. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by phoenix1992

[CaelThunderwing]

5 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Any piece of pre 18.0 lore can be spin out of context in order to fit the Operator narrative due to it being vague as hell.  To some extend I give credit when it is due with the lack of "Retcons" , but that extend goes only as far as "you had 2 years to end in 18.0, and in the next 2 years answers are yet to be given".  Fine Mirage was trapped - ok. Inaros? Limbo? Titania? They all "died", and while we can wave the "well if the frame dies so does the operator" flag, it does not hold much water in the long run. The second dream showed that Warframes are not as nearly as fragile, the War Within showed that Operators are not weaklings, The New Strange even showed us that Frame/Operator connection is a lot more questionable than we imagine. 
But back to the topic of Nidus - he actually fits the Pre War story line pretty clean and cut, considering that the Orokin developed the infestation to begin with. Of course they had some level of control over it up to one point.

PS: Valkyr's lore is actually reinforced by... Ordis. Battle rage technologies existed before the Tenno, a Warframe that focuses on that is not that far stretched. 

exactly!, said tech (aka going beserker) Probably left the user in a temp state of mindless rage.. just... what alad did kinda... he Ooopsied more than likley. considering couldnt understand what he saw that we know is just basicly a Mindless Infested Host flesh inside the frame that plays host for the mind of the Operator to not cause manic when they cant sense certain things of the body.) while its assumed Alad as nuts he is himself isnt stupid to how a frame functions he's learned more than that into Zanuka but could be the idea in the case with valkyr and what gave this technology it's power to increase the users rage/tenacity and lust for the kill as it were ... he probably did something that he shouldn't of.  leaving valkyr in a perpetual state of "Angry Kitteh" :D (i always personally prefer even with the Gersemi skin, to use the Bastet Helm cause.. yea no denying Valkyr is cat themed <3 )

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, CaelThunderwing said:

exactly!, said tech (aka going beserker) Probably left the user in a temp state of mindless rage.. just... what alad did kinda... he Ooopsied more than likley.

There is one more answer that is rather simple.
The operators may not even know how Valkyr is supposed to work. The normal Valkyr is damaged (even the integrity of the helmet), and last time I checked no one tells the operators how frames are supposed to work. So lore wise if you go from the Berseker we know, to a prime variant... it is close to the mind that you would try to work with it the same way.

[mcdoo]

Some frames should be Umbra due to Lore and others Prime...due to Lore. Game lore is important for stories and quests to remain consistent. While some of us just enjoy game play, the story holds more for others. Umbra Nidus. Indeed. Umbra Octavia. Of course. Umbra Titania. Duh. Umbra Harrow. etc. If a frame has a current prime, sans Excalibur, they should not get the umbra treatment. Keep something separate and dont over saturate the field of frames. I dont need a Frost Prime and Umbra Frost. 

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

3 minutes ago, mcdoo said:

Some frames should be Umbra due to Lore and others Prime...due to Lore. Game lore is important for stories and quests to remain consistent. While some of us just enjoy game play, the story holds more for others. Umbra Nidus. Indeed. Umbra Octavia. Of course. Umbra Titania. Duh. Umbra Harrow. etc. If a frame has a current prime, sans Excalibur, they should not get the umbra treatment. Keep something separate and dont over saturate the field of frames. I dont need a Frost Prime and Umbra Frost. 

well all frames are ABLE to be primed DE has said this already. are they going to get primed? idk

[LobsterMagician]

All frame will have a Prime version mentioned by rebbeca, and the Prime types are original type of the regular or massive production frame(s).

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Nidus release date: 12-22-2016

Possible Nidus Prime release date: XX-XX-2020 

[InquisitorMaximus]

16 minutes ago, mcdoo said:

Some frames should be Umbra due to Lore and others Prime...due to Lore. Game lore is important for stories and quests to remain consistent. While some of us just enjoy game play, the story holds more for others. Umbra Nidus. Indeed. Umbra Octavia. Of course. Umbra Titania. Duh. Umbra Harrow. etc. If a frame has a current prime, sans Excalibur, they should not get the umbra treatment. Keep something separate and dont over saturate the field of frames. I dont need a Frost Prime and Umbra Frost. 

How comes? We don't even know what Umbra actually is, saying that "is important for stories and quests to remain consistent" is really bold at this point. How many Umbra variations we will have? we simply don't know.

Primes are really well rounded at this point, except for Valkyr (Gersemi?) which will be always difficult to place in the lore until some adjustments are made; Primes are the original design upon which the later developed mass production models are based so every Warframe has (in potency) a Prime model waiting to be retrieved.

[saltygr33n]

On 6/8/2017 at 8:25 AM, (PS4)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng said:

We all love primes. Trinity Prime, Frost Prime, Valkyr Prime and SO much more! However people are more wanting of Nidus to be a prime frame, however I will explain why that will NOT happen.

 

The reason why is: It wont make sense in the lore.

 

Think about it, Nidus was acquired from Ergo Glast after The Glast Gambit quest when he gives us a Myconian artifact which was used to understand the Infested better.

 

Lets rephrase that. Nidus was made after the events of The Glast Gambit meaning he didnt exist when the Orokin were still around. Also the artifact was Myconian NOT Orokin meaning they couldn't have made nidus before the collapse.

 

But I'm gonna throw the towel in here. I just KNOW there's gonna be someone who will counter this claim.

 

(Also as a heads up I DON'T have a distain for Nidus I personally Love the frame. Its just that I'm loyal to the games lore and I don't wanna see it being a jumbled mess. So please don't say I'm hating on Nidus.)

That's funny, because people said something similar about why Valkyr prime won't happen, and guess what? Valkyr prime happened!

[-Krism-]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)ghinellil said:

Nidus release date: 12-22-2016

Possible Nidus Prime release date: XX-XX-2020 

I think this is even a bit early dude.

[SenorClipClop]

Wasn't the Infested an accidental creation by the Orokin when trying to make the Warframes? If that's the case, couldn't Nidus be the easiest Warframe to fit into the lore as a Prime?

Also, Nidus is still Orokin-made. He was not created by the Myconians. He is not an Infested, despite using Infested tissue in combat. Half of him even looks like standard Tenno stock.

[SolidJames]

On 6/8/2017 at 0:36 PM, NeithanDiniem said:

No, its people assuming that her skills needed to change when Alad V experimented on her. Literally all that is said that is causing this was that Alad V's experiments left her " scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing." Nothing there even alludes to her skills changing or being different than they were before the experimentation. Her deluxe skin is purely descriptive that "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was the Gersemi Valkyr." Thats it. Nothing at all for anyone to use as a means of justifying that her skills changed or that it doesn't make sense. She was still Valkyr, exactly as how Frost is still Frost even though he is using his deluxe skin. He wasn't a different Warframe, neither was she with her Gersemi skin. Gersemi is the name of the skin, thats it. Its the skin of her non-primed form. She is still Valkyr. It is in fact fanboyism that caused the problem and everyone else jumped on the bandwagon because they didn't want to sit down and think about it.

>Nothing there even alludes to her skills changing or being different than they were before the experimentation

> 'Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing.'

>leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing

If you actually read it (and understand English grammar), it specifically states that the experiments left her adept at killing. Which implies she was different before the experiments. There is no getting around this.

 

On 6/8/2017 at 4:52 PM, Thaylien said:

Valkyr (and I'm looking at a lot of people here); why do you think that regular Valkyr looks the way she does? She was a warframe before Alad V took her apart to find out how she ticked. The statement in the codex is: 'Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing.' meaning there was an original Valkyr that he tormented, likely with a Tenno pilot too, and this is why she looks the way she does. A lot of people will point at the Gersemi premium skin, and say 'this is what she looked like before' to which I will respond with; the Codex says 'Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was the Gersemi Valkyr.' This only implies that this variant of Valkyr existed too, it does not state that this is what the original Valkyr looked like. The Prime variant is her original look, just like Oberon's fat neck is how he looked, despite his Feyarch variant, the premium skins are variants too, not the originals.

 

This is to both of you, the Gersemi skin was specifically referred to as the "pre-Corpus captured Valkyr, unmodified, OG version" on the devstream, it is the same exact Valkyr.

At 15:40

 

[moose2142]

On 6/8/2017 at 8:25 AM, (PS4)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng said:

We all love primes. Trinity Prime, Frost Prime, Valkyr Prime and SO much more! However people are more wanting of Nidus to be a prime frame, however I will explain why that will NOT happen.

 

The reason why is: It wont make sense in the lore.

 

Think about it, Nidus was acquired from Ergo Glast after The Glast Gambit quest when he gives us a Myconian artifact which was used to understand the Infested better.

 

Lets rephrase that. Nidus was made after the events of The Glast Gambit meaning he didnt exist when the Orokin were still around. Also the artifact was Myconian NOT Orokin meaning they couldn't have made nidus before the collapse.

 

But I'm gonna throw the towel in here. I just KNOW there's gonna be someone who will counter this claim.

 

(Also as a heads up I DON'T have a distain for Nidus I personally Love the frame. Its just that I'm loyal to the games lore and I don't wanna see it being a jumbled mess. So please don't say I'm hating on Nidus.)

The lore in warframe is not known for being the most consistent, hence the numerous replies about Valkyr/valkyr prime.

Remember the liset is supposed to be a ship from the old days as well right? It even has a prime version. 
So why is there a door there that ONLY nidus can open initially, speaking strictly about pre space aids on everyone days.

"Lets rephrase that. Nidus was made after the events of The Glast Gambit" 

From the wiki
"The player's choice determines the content of the inbox message that arrives afterwards, which will include a video message from Neewa to the Tenno. Regardless of choice, players will be rewarded with the Myconian's Old War relic upon receiving the message, which is revealed to be the blueprint for the Nidus Warframe."

So no, he wasnt made in that quest. He has been around as long as the others. 

[AerinSol]

They gave up making sense with Valkyr prime.

As long as they make money they won't care about your reasoning skills.

[InquisitorMaximus]

3 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Wasn't the Infested an accidental creation by the Orokin when trying to make the Warframes? If that's the case, couldn't Nidus be the easiest Warframe to fit into the lore as a Prime?

Also, Nidus is still Orokin-made. He was not created by the Myconians. He is not an Infested, despite using Infested tissue in combat. Half of him even looks like standard Tenno stock.

The Infestation was an Orokin weapon created to fight the Sentients (which are also an Orokin creation, at least the very early ones sent to the Tau System) that's why your operator will say from time to time: "Infestation, an Orokin weapon... that backfired."

Both Tenno and Warframes are immune to the Infestation ("We are immune to the infestation but they still try to kill us"), Mesa being a special case, a relic from the time when the idea of the Tenno inhabiting the Warframe was still a thing "That's not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Infested flesh. Put it out of its misery" (another difficult-to-place piece of lore).

And apparently even the Warframes have some connection with the Infestation, Ordis mentions "Ordis cannot remember, but there does seem to be a... relationship... between your Warframes and the... Infestation. I would be careful in here, Operator. Domesticated or not, Ordis does NOT trust this thing." maybe it's like Walking Dead, the Warframes cannot be infested because they already are =v

Edited August 29, 2017 by RubenRosas

[AcceI]

Apply DE logic and Nidus will get primed regardless of what BS lore they got going.

[InquisitorMaximus]

51 minutes ago, moose2142 said:

The lore in warframe is not known for being the most consistent, hence the numerous replies about Valkyr/valkyr prime.

Remember the liset is supposed to be a ship from the old days as well right? It even has a prime version. 
So why is there a door there that ONLY nidus can open initially, speaking strictly about pre space aids on everyone days.

"Lets rephrase that. Nidus was made after the events of The Glast Gambit" 

From the wiki
"The player's choice determines the content of the inbox message that arrives afterwards, which will include a video message from Neewa to the Tenno. Regardless of choice, players will be rewarded with the Myconian's Old War relic upon receiving the message, which is revealed to be the blueprint for the Nidus Warframe."

So no, he wasnt made in that quest. He has been around as long as the others. 

It's quite obvious that Nidus is a Warframe engineered by the Orokin. Also the door you mentioned is not in the Liset, is in the Orbiter, but in any case it seems like the Infestation is embedded in the design that's why Ordis mentions "Vile. Putrid. This... 'thing'... is responsible for biological functions of the Orbiter! A strange design, why would I be built with such a flaw?!" when you access the Infested Room.

On the other hand Ordis is another evidence of the Orokin heritage, since it was Ballas who transformed Ordan Karris' mind into Cephalon Ordis.

[SolidJames]

13 minutes ago, RubenRosas said:

The Infestation was an Orokin weapon created to fight the Sentients (which are also an Orokin creation, at least the very early ones sent to the Tau System) that's why your operator will say from time to time: "Infestation, an Orokin weapon... that backfired."

Both Tenno and Warframes are immune to the Infestation ("We are immune to the infestation but they still try to kill us"), Mesa being a special case, a relic from the time when the idea of the Tenno inhabiting the Warframe was still a thing "That's not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Infested flesh. Put it out of its misery" (another difficult-to-place piece of lore).

 

Correct on almost all points, the only thing is that Mesa isn't that difficult to place. Hollow can have multiple meanings in this context, a warframe without an operator controlling it can still be considered hollow.

[kgabor]

Nidus can still have a special variant though, like Secura Nidus or Nidus Umbra, Mutalist Nidus.

[InquisitorMaximus]

2 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

 

Correct on almost all points, the only thing is that Mesa isn't that difficult to place. Hollow can have multiple meanings in this context, a warframe without an operator controlling it can still be considered hollow.

Indeed, that seems to be right =]

[InquisitorMaximus]

16 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Nidus can still have a special variant though, like Secura Nidus or Nidus Umbra, Mutalist Nidus.

That's totally possible, however Secura is a variation of weapons modified by The Perrin Sequence syndicate as well as a Syandana & Mutalist describes the application of the Infestation to weapons and Corpus technology (and to Alad V himself of course).

Edited August 29, 2017 by RubenRosas

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On June 8, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Eggplants said:

He'll eventually be released and his original lore will be put aside just like Valkyr. 

You do understand that the Corpus tried to reverse engineer Gersemi Valkyr to be as much like the Orokin version as their tech would allow, right? 

People with this argument want to utterly dismiss that Gersemi might be the product of Tenno limitations and artistry, and that "Corpus" Valkyr may be the altered Tenno Blueprint with the Gersemi cosmetics stripped to "Bare Bones" and applied to Zanuka (not a coincidence) so that they could try and recreate her in the image of their Orokin Gods to the extent that Corpus Tech allowed.

Retcon or not, it makes sense as at least possible.

Nidus seems like an alt-strain (let's call it the Helminth Strain) Prototype to me that is resistance to the control that the standard Hive-minded Infestation exerts on everything it infects.  It may be a Tenno-DNA/infestation hybrid.

The Rhino Codex certainly points to the sleeping Tenno creating a type of Hive-mind Nullifier bubble or calming influence.  The question is "How?" And "Why?"

So Nidus is much like a wolf.  Dangerous and untamed yet loyal to the Helminth pack.

I believe Warframe "armor" is as much about containment as it is mass production and protection.

I've always held the belief that one of our dark secrets is that Warframes are potential carriers; they are not only harbingers of death but vectors of infection and corruption when wounded.

So taming, weaponizing, and mass-producing  the wolf along with minimizing it's ability to spread led to Orokinized Primes.

Nidus--->Excaliber----->all other Warframes.

Edited August 29, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[blackheartstar_pc]

He will be Primed. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise. Unless of course for some reason the game doesn't survive long enough to get to him but I don't see that being the outcome.

[InquisitorMaximus]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You do understand that the Corpus tried to reverse engineer Gersemi Valkyr to be as much like the Orokin version as their tech would allow, right? 

People with this argument want to utterly dismiss that Gersemi might be the product of Tenno limitations and artistry, and that "Corpus" Valkyr may be the altered Tenno Blueprint with the Gersemi cosmetics stripped to "Bare Bones" and applied to Zanuka (not a coincidence) so that they could try and recreate her in the image of their Orokin Gods to the extent that Corpus Tech allowed.

Retcon or not, it makes sense as at least possible.

Nidus seems like an alt-strain (let's call it the Helminth Strain) Prototype to me that is resistance to the control that the standard Hive-minded Infestation exerts on everything it infects.  It may be a Tenno-DNA/infestation hybrid.

The Rhino Codex certainly points to the sleeping Tenno creating a type of Hive-mind Nullifier bubble or calming influence.  The question is "How?" And "Why?"

So Nidus is much like a wolf.  Dangerous and untamed yet loyal to the Helminth pack.

I believe Warframe "armor" is as much about containment as it is mass production and protection.

I've always held the belief that one of our dark secrets is that Warframes are potential carriers; they are not only harbingers of death but vectors of infection and corruption when wounded.

So taming, weaponizing, and mass-producing  the wolf along with minimizing it's ability to spread led to Orokinized Primes.

Nidus--->Excaliber----->all other Warframes.

XO

I love these hypotheses (Valkyr & Nidus), not that I agree 100% but I do love them =^D

It's exciting