Some design patterns that DE should stop using.

[Arvenski]

Operators: That really is just your opinion, man. I quite like my girl. Knowing that she is who I really am makes me feel a lot more human than just playing a mysterious infested construct.

[Daktaro]

1. idk about this. sure too much repetition could be bad. kinda depends on how much and what kind in each situation. if it's repetition of something you like it could be a good thing too. hmm.. for example the index in nidus quest, is repeated but on one hand it familiarises you with the game mode if you wanted to play it outside the quest, and on the other hand for people who don't touch it outside the quest it makes them use it a bit first so they don't just play it once and throw it away. 

2. think they add gimmicks for variety. sure the game shouldn't be JUST gimmicks but now and then makes something different to do than just kill kill kill etc. not saying they shouldn't add new bosses though. 

3. don't think a majority of people hate operators. personally i don't mind them, kind of like the idea of superpowered mercenary kids controlling the warframes. i like the idea of one kid having these insane powers that's hard to control and then they can equip all the different frames to channel their power in different ways. like a cookie cutter kind of thing. 

you spend most of the time playing as the frame anyway and those look like adults. agree that operator gameplay is a bit clunky though and they need some more energy and/or damage to be a better glass cannon. having such small HP is kind of the point and you can summon them over and over if they die anyway.

the only thing is, the limited energy might also be a lore thing since using the powers takes such a toll on the operator's body and that's one of the reasons to have warframes in the first place. maybe they can only use the void powers in short bursts cuz they literally can't handle the full power. which is why they use warframes with the bigger energy pool since those are specifically built to handle it.

On 6/30/2017 at 11:47 PM, Fallen_Echo said:

Ever since they introduced the operators i wait for the day they make "armor" out of warframes wearable for operators to gain empowered skills.

Just imagine getting an ember suit, now you can turn the void laser into a powerful flame thrower, the accelerant into a pit of flameable oil, the fireblast into a flame shield around you and the world on fire into gigantic flame pillars summoned in an area you point at.

They could also add syndicate combat traning zones where we could learn weapon usage and get specific operator only weapon buffs.

i find it so funny that you say this xD because that is what warframes are in the first place. warframes ARE armor that is "worn" by operators and depending on the frame it turns their void powers into something else. i say worn in quotations cuz it's the mind transference thingy rather than actually wearing it like a suit. so when you equip ember it really does change the void laser into fireball/accelerant/fire blast/world on fire. having another suit applied to the operator's body directly that gives different powers would essentially be like just having another warframe. 

[SilentMobius]

20 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

No one cares about it lore wise, at least anymore.

I care and if you don't and the people you play with (if there is anyone) don't then perhaps that's the circles you move in rather than anything "global" as you seem you suggest.

[Jojo_Beyzos]

Then go play Runescape and have fun with there quest and bosses and grind And dont forget regular basis of grinding though quest XD

[Jojo_Beyzos]

On 6/30/2017 at 2:27 AM, Atekron said:

1. Repetition. Do we really need to same thing tree times in the row? 

2. Gimmicks. Why not to built quest using your core game mechanic? Things that we do on a regular basis. I rather want to test my skills gained by playing game on a new enemies, powerful and fun bosses, and I want to see new environments, not some sort of card game (WTF?!).

3. Operators. Listen, I now it can be painfull, but DE you need to hear this: a lot of us don't like them, maybe majority, and some of us hate them (me) and think that they should not even appear at all in Warframe. 

 

Go play runescape

[Jojo_Beyzos]

its more of a rant than a Discussion

Free to say opinion

[Xgomme]

The quest is cool, with nice story and ambiance. Operators are a nice idea and it really adds some creepy past events to the game (only if you read quests tho, eh)...

 

Only thing I can say yes is your "1", repetitive grind is boring.

[Atekron]

2 hours ago, Daktaro said:

if it's repetition of something you like it could be a good thing too.

no, hunting that thing 9 times in 3 missions was not good thing

2 hours ago, Daktaro said:

for example the index in nidus quest, is repeated but on one hand it familiarises

one time was more than enough to introduce to new system

2 hours ago, Daktaro said:

sure the game shouldn't be JUST gimmicks

that's exactly my concern - too much time devoted to new unfinished gimmicks and too little to essential parts of the game, we not even have proper endgame yet!

2 hours ago, Daktaro said:

don't think a majority of people hate operators

don't know either, this is just my assumption, but "majority" can agree that they need more improvements in a lot of areas

ps.: somewhere was idea to make operators non-combat, only story telling device - that's a very good idea

Edited July 2, 2017 by Atekron

[Praetorveel]

On 6/30/2017 at 1:27 AM, Atekron said:

1. Repetition. Do we really need to same thing tree times in the row? 

2. Gimmicks. Why not to built quest using your core game mechanic? Things that we do on a regular basis. I rather want to test my skills gained by playing game on a new enemies, powerful and fun bosses, and I want to see new environments, not some sort of card game (WTF?!).

3. Operators. Listen, I now it can be painfull, but DE you need to hear this: a lot of us don't like them, maybe majority, and some of us hate them (me) and think that they should not even appear at all in Warframe. 

 

1: Repetitive mission mechanic: I haven't encountered this yet, but I'm a slow gamer so the repetition gets spaced out a little further for me. However I agree in principle.
 Having any aspect of any game that needs to be repeated more than twice tells the gamer that the developer hasn't found a good substitute.   As a game designer I know how easy it is to do this.   With Warframe being the perpetual game it is ( no real end game) repetition is hard to avoid and in a few cases it's financially required. To make every mission an original is beyond the scope of Warframe. Most sandbox style games and mmo's suffer from this. So, I can live with it.  Just makes the grind more grindy.

2: Gimmicks: Sorry DE, this is game design 101, no gimmicks. They don't work long term. Unless it is your core game mechanic, but even then, they run the risk of being repetitive and boring. See point 1. 
  The mods were a good example of a gimmick that was made into a core mechanic... (Personally I would have preferred it if they did NOT look like trading cards. But that's just me.  I personally prefer a kind of skill tree system, mostly because I'm OCD and the card mechanic is a jumbled mess and stresses me out.) 
  A random card game thrown in late in the game is a bad gimmick. It's out of place and breaks immersion. 

3:Operators: Uh yeah.   I am not at all fond of them.   At my age, playing a  teen with a maturity problem doesn't appeal (teens cause enough falm palms in real life, why would I subject myself to that in a game). So I've ignored the whole war within quest line, and invented my own background. Heck I even ignored the Natah quest line.   No one is forcing me to follow what DE has written, so...
That being said, I wonder what the purpose of introducing them was?   It doesn't seem like they were in the original design document when one looks at their implementation.
 The original cutscenes (where your character is introduced) doesn't match up with the fact that the operators are supposed to be the power behind the 'suit'.
 Why would a Warframe need to be put in cryo if it was just a remote controlled suit?
  If the operators were in the design plans all along then why would the writers have had Alad V or Vor care about the Warframes at all?   If the real power was in the children, then they would have avoided the 'suits' and tried to locate the kids.   
Considering the Queens would have known all along and guided the grineer to locate the hidden vault with the kids, Vor certainly would have  ignored the suits and gone for the kids.  
Upon disection, Alad V would have seen that there was a vital component missing that made the Warframes so powerful. 
   It is implied that lotus knew the whole time.  Therefore, her concern for the Warframes at the beginning of the game seems misplaced.   
The dots in this picture aren't connecting very well. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for what's happening in the story-line beyond the rule of cool.
 This is a problem with introducing lore late in the story-line that forces a ret-con of previous lore, things get confusing.   Warhammer players and Comic readers know this intimately.   
I would have preferred the operators to be an option. Like adding a kind of Cortana to your Warframe to increase it's abilities and reactions.  I've always thought of the Lotus as a generic form of assistant AI anyway.  Afterall...she really only functions as a high tech truck dispatcher, relaying waypoints and mission objectives.  Hey, can we get Lotus to end transmissions with "Breaker breaker, ten-four good buddy. Over and out."
Besides if the Tenno are all based on the original Hayden Tenno, then all the Warframes are humans infected with the technocyte virus and are now  being mind controlled by the kids.   Makes those kids rather callous and clinically psychopathic. 

Then again maybe it's me

[Sovyul]

I think i put 1k hours into this game, but all the operator S#&$ made me quit. It was fine for a while but they kept pushing it.

If only they made it so the operator could be a teen or an outcast like that operator hunter (the one that adapts to attack types and has cool moves, makes the lights flicker, i forgot his name) by choice it would've been so much better.

inb4 what are you doing here then

I just become curious every few months to see how are things going

[SprinKah]

On 6/30/2017 at 2:35 PM, -N7-Leonhart said:

The card game was used only once, and it was a nice touch on the context.

Also, Operators are basically the core of the lore now. They are required to do things by themselves, not just with their containers. Once in a while during quests is not bad at all (although I use them quite a lot in Kuva missions).

oh you use them a lot in KUVA missions? I'm so surprised man!

I meant no offense, but OF COURSE YOU'D NEED TO USE OPERATOR A LOT IN KUVA MISSIONS

 

sorry.

[Praetorveel]

41 minutes ago, Sovyul said:

I think i put 1k hours into this game, but all the operator S#&$ made me quit. It was fine for a while but they kept pushing it.

If only they made it so the operator could be a teen or an outcast like that operator hunter (the one that adapts to attack types and has cool moves, makes the lights flicker, i forgot his name) by choice it would've been so much better.

inb4 what are you doing here then

I just become curious every few months to see how are things going

The Tenno hunter is just known as The Stalker.

[Daktaro]

6 hours ago, Praetorveel said:

That being said, I wonder what the purpose of introducing them was?   It doesn't seem like they were in the original design document when one looks at their implementation.

yea operators didn't exist at the very beginning

 

[kyori]

The last missionnin the quest is not difficult at all. They sent melee enemies at us and slow aiming sniper + some slow moving ground waves. The fireballs from the evil being is easy to dodge as long as you move around. I only died once near the end the 3rd wave. It is not like the enemies are napalm of heavy gunners, Supra crewman etc, then it'll be difficult. 

[Eric1738]

Well, your first point is about reducing the grind, but honestly it won't happen(too often), because otherwise no incentive for players to buy things from the market. Your second point is, I don't know, rather clueless.

Ok, now the thrid point, I think the problem with Operator is that they aren't even that powerful as the story suggests. So much about "the strongest force in the unknown universe", while easily dies to a low rank mob. I believe, the Operator beam should not consume energy, and their sprint speed could have been buffed a bit. Overall, I think the Operator has potential, but at the current form, it is not satisfying to use the Operator mode.

[GhostLacuna]

On 2017-06-30 at 4:13 PM, KozaTheShadow said:

Nobody ever seems to realize that they can just write their own story for the Operators. They always complain "emo teenagers", instead of realizing those "teenagers" have been piloting Warframes for years/decades and their bodies have been in cryosleep to preserve their minds. They look like teenagers but they can be whoever you want them to be, just turn off Operator voice lines if you hate them so much. I so very much prefer having concrete lore I can still write my own personality into. 

Operator mechanics are definitely something that should be discussed however, they're so close to being good and fun but just not. Warframe is too fast for how slow they are, and Chains of Harrow really shows that. 

What you fail to realize is that due to the aweful writing in this game the operators will never get past the childish pre teen emo label.

There is not even a sliver of evidence that the operators are mature  or have any experience at all, rather its the opposite. 

We have plenty of evidence they lack even the most basic knowledge about the universe they live in. (operator lines in all quests and the voicelines in missions)

By the way they act in all quests so we can summerize that they are nothing but children. In both mind and body.

This clearly goes against all lore surrounding the focus schools which state they built up culture, made traditions etc.

Also the operator is a failed third wheel in the game.

for the following reasons:

1) It forced a avatar betwwen the player and the warframes. now you are in canon controlling an avatar that is controlling the warframes.

2) DE failed to create any sort of rapport betwwen the player and the operator. More so since the veterans in this game had years to create an rapport with the warframes.

3) operator mechanics and controls are extremely clunky.

4) The operators cringy badly written lines and choices in quests put even more distance betwwen the players that feel they cant even get the operators to make the right choices and the operators.

5) The absolute lack of any maturity, knowledge or experience from the operators makes me personally hate them with a passion. I can stand the physical representation but i am so damn tired of this forsaken child trope being done badly. 

6) Had DE adverticed the game as pre teens piloting warframes i would never even picked up the game.

The warframes is what makes this game unique. Without them and their abilities this is just another generic third person shooter.

Edited July 3, 2017 by GhostLacuna

[Atekron]

1 hour ago, Eric1738 said:

Well, your first point is about reducing the grind, but honestly it won't happen(too often), because otherwise no incentive for players to buy things from the market.

I don't mind grind when playing a game (DE really likes number 3 - sorties, invasion, ghost hunting), after all that's a point of such type of games, I just don't understand why to put repetition in quest? what they want to invoke? boredom? I was thinking that in last quest they want to be spooky and scare us to death.

1 hour ago, Eric1738 said:

Your second point is, I don't know, rather clueless.

some of clues: no endgame, no new lilesets, no new bosses, no new factions (and some just abandoned - sentient), no long lasting game expanding and improoving content

1 hour ago, Eric1738 said:

Ok, now the thrid point, I think the problem with Operator is that they aren't even that powerful as the story suggests.

if they would be powerful what the point to having frames in the first place? let's just rename game to "Operators" or "General Anime About Kids With Superpowers"

[(PSN)Kamil-the-KamiKa]

your hating on the operators and saying warframes are better......

yes i agree the operators are nothing compared to warframes but it provides a challenge and adds character

and yeah i guess the kids are emo and bratty but they are the warframes, if the warframes could talk they would be exactly like their operators, just a different body but same mind.

as people mentioned above operators arent going anywhere and it is the odd 1 quest we got once every couple of months/sometimes even a year, and the odd kuva run you gotta use your operators, everyother time its frame

i kinda like gimmicks it shows the game is different and not just some shoot shoot kill kill gain recources repeat

[Teloch]

7 minutes ago, Atekron said:

if they would be powerful what the point to having frames in the first place? let's just rename game to "Operators" or "General Anime About Kids With Superpowers"

Player: *enters the MR24 test*
Lotus: "your fragile body is the most powerful force in the known universe"
*'the most powerful force in the known universe' dies to a couple of maggots and two bipedal giant vaginas*

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Teloch

[TennoPain]

REskining items take any excitement from me 

[Atekron]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)kamil_demon said:

shoot shoot kill kill gain recources repeat

hallelujah! that's why we are playing this game, if you want something more deep and meaningful go play "Mass Effect Andromeda"(sarcasm)

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I wonder how you feel right now after the responses you've gotten.

[Sasquatchias]

While I'm not particularly against Operators for the most part, I do think DE really, really needs to update the system and mechanics surrounding them before shoving them into Quests and gameplay not suited for them at all.

Operators feel clunky and operate awkwardly, have severe energy issues with all of their unique stuff costing energy from the same pool, and with their health being a measly 100 they can barely take on any content not specifically made for them without the assistance of other players or Warframes to stop even a single bullet from killing them and sending them back into their Warframes.

This sort of clunkiness is entirely showcased at the ends of Chains of Harrow, with most players dying at least 2-3 times from Red Veil members or a stray homing shot from The Wall Man before completing the whole thing.

 

Additionally I think Operators could stand to have much better or fitting dialogue options based on the personalities present in the various voice types, as right now they all tend to be "Somewhat Edgy Pre-Teen Trying to act Serious", with just the little quips and insults also helping to ruin some of the immersion.

Operators as of right now have little to no player-crafted personality, instead just parroting the same lines DE has crafted that can sometimes even go against what a player ideally wants them to act or be like.

[Atekron]

10 minutes ago, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

I wonder how you feel right now after the responses you've gotten.

a little surprised how many people defend and take as personal insult such flowed system as operators

and to thouse who actually give some response (I don't call a response:swallow it they here to stay!!!) one conclusion - operators need more work(for some reason first two points were mostly ignored or people agree with them)

[Zanchak]

1 hour ago, Teloch said:

Player: *enters the MR24 test*
Lotus: "your fragile body is the most powerful force in the known universe"
*'the most powerful force in the known universe' dies to a couple of maggots and two bipedal giant vaginas*

 

When I reach this test soon.. Im going to remember this, and die from the tears flooding my eyeballs.