[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[FoxFX]

8 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

OK Instead of just that post did you read what I was talking about, and if so could you get behind these changes, that is the question

 

I have read your thoughts especially with your argument on reading to work Hydroid to be more viable in Mid-Late game. I have also read many of their suggestions as well.

 

We have to understand that sometimes that strive to make a Warframe too unique can also dumb down the Warframe. Much like the situation Limbo was in pre-rework and in some slight regards post-rework.

I've made my few suggestions that would make Hydroid's kit more rewarding and give him that slight push to his playstyle without changing much.

Edited August 11, 2017 by FoxFX

[Jackel7]

• Tempest Barrage- casting animation should be faster, like Have Hydroid shoot a water ball into the air like a signal flare and it can Deal Impact damage and mobs down but it are open to ground finishers.
• Tidal Surge- need to be cancelable to above going off the map and give it a ice proc maybe?  https://youtu.be/9wbNvmFCz1c
• Undertow- give it a passive where ever and ally walk over it their melee gets a range and attack speed buff

[Manojisan]

Okay, im fairly new to warframe but i'll try my best to give my feedback.

overall im happy with the synergy of the abilities and im in love with hydroid and his aesthetics !

however im little concerned about the RNG on Tempest Barrage and reliability as a crowd controller at higher levels.

something about this ability feels off ! and i think most of us agree  that it should be replaced entirely.

Tidal Surge feels good in the sense that you have a pushback, but PLEASE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP THIS MID CAST ! just like undertow !!

being able to steer this would be a plus too (maybe too much to ask.)

Undertow feels GREAT as a temporary CC / Immunity / pull and hide ! FREAKING LOVE IT. i find it unnecessary for it to cost extra energy while moving since we barely move >_>. just my personal opinion. IMPORTANT NOTE: Enemies should move with you if you have them '' Pooled ''.

This could be a bug.

Tentacle swarm: not much to say here. massive ( O crap button) damage and crowd control. i understand people find it annoying but having the targets stand still (choked in tentacles) doesnt make it any different from other frames like Frost's freeze or harrows chains. (i dont know the ability names but you guys know what im talking about).

 

Shoutout to the devs for putting in effort in the first place!! <3

it is appreciated, but he could still use some work.

Greetings!

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Manojisan

[DeathTheLegendary1]

So i am typing this on my phone cause i am at work so plz forgive me if my ideas for hydroid look wonky.

 

Hydroid Rework

 

1st ability: No changes needed for mechanics but a base increase in dmg and duration

 

2nd ability: here is where things get fun. Hydroid loses dmg immunity but gains a 75 percent dmg reduction that can scale up to 95 percent dmg reduction with mods, tidal surge becomes a channel ability and he gains increase movement speed instead of travelling a set distance (esentially turning the lower half of his body into water) but still works the same as before where if he runs into enemies he knocks them down. In this mode he can still shoot, aim, melee, swap weapons, but can't bullet jump, roll, or aim glide. If used in the air he will crash down on the ground and knockback all enemies in the area and suffer a cold proc. When he ends the ability he launches himself in the air.

 

3rd ability: Hydroid no longer becomes becomes a puddle but instead lays down a puddle at where ever he is pointing at, still functions the same as before but enemies that are hit by barrage take 3x dmg from it and enemies that are hit by tentacle swarm take 4x dmg.

 

4th ability: Functions the same way but can now be picked up and moved around if u r using your second ability but reduces the range by half. If cast on Undertow it will pull enemies in and start thrashing them underneath the water dealing the 4x dmg plus the increase dmg ticks it would normaly take if it was affected by undertow.

 

I feel as though the hydroid rework is a bit mediocre. It improved the fluidity of his abilities(pun intended) which is good, but I still feel like its not quite there yet. I bet someone in DE had a very similar idea to my rework idea but either due too time constraints or performance issues they couldn't implement it.

[HawkFang022]

Hydroid uses so much of his energy

That you would require a Trinity or mod of some kind that replenishes his energy.  That's because he consumes energy at an obscene rate with no way of actually regaining his own energy.

Could something be done to reduce energy consumption or give, Hydroid a new passive to regain his own energy.  By the way he needs a new passive something useful.

 As an example consider Nidus, Nidus is self-sufficient due to regaining a portion of his energy with each enemy he kills.  Could something like that be done on Hydroid.  Thus eliminating the need for a Trinity or Mod.

 

Tidal Surge

While an issue has been addressed with Tidal Surge.  There are still a few more to be had.  The travel time for Tidal Surge has been decrease, weather this is for the worse or better (time will tell).

a)      Hydroid is still unable to stop tidal surge by activating the move a second time.  Theimplementation of allowing Hydride to stop, tidal surge with a single press, without going into any other animation would be very effective.  A seamless transition from a short mid-range tidal wave (Stop, maybe fire some weapons or melee attack before go) to a longer range (tidal wave) attack would truly help Hydroid game mechanic.

 

b)     As well slightly change Direction while propelling forward as Tidal Surge.  Changing directions without losing the momentum, would prove quite useful.  This way you can go directly into Tidal Surge without targeting the enemy first.  Thus keeping the fast paced gameplay that is Warframe.  Just don't add no ridiculous angles like making a direct U-turn as a tidal wave.  An L-turn (as a tidal wave) in either left or right Direction would be fine.

 

Undertow

While undertow is now a mobile ability, it still feels quite hindered by 3 factors.  Maybe I'm asking for too much, but I just feel if these 3 things were cleaned up or tighten up a little bit more undertow would be a great ability

a)      The speed in which you move as, is yeah.  Could you increase it by25%?  As it is now it's quite underwhelming and at the amount of energy, it consumes while moving it's not worth it.  Yes, I know that you're able to move undertow, faster by activating Tidal Surge but that comes at the cost of more energy to which I mentioned earlier Hydroid consumes a lot of energy… and has no way of actually regaining the energy without pickups.

 

b)     Which brings me to my second point. Tidal surge does not deal a large amount of damage to enemies, with that in mind.  Why does it consume additional energy at the cost of moving?  Couldn't it consume shields (instead) or consume nothing at all, and just allow Hydroid Undertow consume the regular amount of energy while moving.

 

c)      As a quality of life change for Undertow.  Instead of having Undertow completely in golf your entire enemy, thus protecting the enemy from your allies’ attacks.

Why not have it in golf the enemy up to its waist and have the enemy struggle to break free, but it's held in place by the Kraken (sea monster) while still dealing damage overtime (the damage dealt over time are the effects of the Kraken crushing their bones).  While leaving part of the enemy exposed, it's still susceptible to damage.  That way undertow would no longer protect enemies from your allies’ attacks.

 

As a small mention, this does not directly relate to Hydroid.  However, I still feel that it's worth mentioning.  Have you considered Duel Passive for Warframes?  Not all Warframes needs a Duel Passive but would benefit.

Such as Frost.  It always kills me that Frost.  Whom is the “embodiment” of Ice, or create his own ice out of air, can take damage by other ice effects.  When Ember, whom the “embodiment” of Fire, absorbs all fire type attacks.  Something to consider going forward with Warframe.

Edited August 12, 2017 by HawkFang022

[13QZXXTTX]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:26 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Feedback appreciated here: 

PS: If you want Hydroid to CONSUME energy?I would say to CUT the energy cost down like slower than Ivara Prowl,

 

[leadwolf1]

2 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

I have read your thoughts especially with your argument on reading to work Hydroid to be more viable in Mid-Late game. I have also read many of their suggestions as well.

 

We have to understand that sometimes that strive to make a Warframe too unique can also dumb down the Warframe. Much like the situation Limbo was in pre-rework and in some slight regards post-rework.

I've made my few suggestions that would make Hydroid's kit more rewarding and give him that slight push to his playstyle without changing much.

I have read yours, so I would like you to please explain to me how you have made it so other players do not mind the undertow where the enemies are immune to their attacks, this being one of the reasons ash had its 4th redone and in the wake a loss in damage output with same ability. they wat it is presented to do stripping of abilities and armor and shields while staggering them upon release , to me make more sense. this is my opinion of course

 

[Xyhon]

TBH Puddle should have timer and after enemies are released from it, they should be stunned/blinded/whatever, that opens them for finishers. And adds to Hydroid survivability, because he is squishy - 200 armor is nothing in this game, when you go gainst LVL60+

[kowalsky386]

Oh boy.. so i guess hes still worst frame in game... . .. . .. .  . . . . . . .. . . .  . . ..  ... .. . .    fuk

[Maizaeku]

There are three  main problems with Hydroid's rework, and I say that as someone who has him in my top 5 (I think, mag in the beginning throws off my numbers). I don't speak for damage or synergy but purely 'quality of life' play.

- His range for his 3 and 4 is nerfed. No two ways about it.

- 4 used to be instant cast (minus casting animation), and it worked beautifully. Now the instant cast is nerfed range wise, and... for what?

- This is a thing that I haven't seen anyone else complain about yet, but the colors. His ultimate used to be able to have the tentacles your energy color, now they're clear. Maybe someone has addressed this, but I  wanted to say something myself.

[AcceptYourDeath]

"Hydroid can now move while using Undertow"

No he can`t, let`s not ....just no!

"Hydroid can now use Tidal Surge while using Undertow" 

With the added downside of leaving all enemys behind which have been caught by Undertow losing all progress for its ramp-up damage.

So you could spent 50 energy at base to move with restricted freedom and control because the only means to stop Tidal Surge is already in use(Undertow). Or you just cancle undertow make a quick bullet jump and most likely cover a greater distance and cast undertow for 15 energy base again. It`s cheaper for energy, gives much more freedom of movement especially vertical and since you leave enemys behind anyway you don`t lose anything really.

There is no synergy or use for Tidal Surge other than blowing your energy for nothing but meaningless damage and short ragdoll cc. Why 50 energy is the big question here. 

If anything it should be a cheaper alternative compared to cast Undertow twice to have this idea make any sense whatsoever.  

 

What is really striking with this whole interaction between Tidal Surge and Undertow, there has been a focus on Necros and Ash to make these Warframes more interactive (Desecrate/Bladestorm).

Hydroid is the exact opposite and the closest you could get to a afk-frame again taking him out of the game and restrict him alot.

Using Undertow primarly means you are stuck in one location, without any danger and a painful long progress to kill enemys. You can`t do anything but wait for a weak dot to work on something you can`t see! It is soooo soooooo sooo boring to do. You are forced to use this new grab ability for additional energy with each enemy starting his individual timer on the dot. That in return forces you to stay in Undertow for every enemy starting all over on the dot increase.

And all this is getting even worse, you have two options while in Undertow, either casting Tempest Barage keeping enemys away from your Undertow because they get knocked down and have a really hard time walking into Undertow. Or you could use Tentacle Swarm, however using it while in Undertow the range is GREATLY reduced with all tentacles cluttering up at this abysmal range of 4m for Undertow. Tentacle Swarm won`t reach enemys further away, for a good laugh you can charge it up using increased range to not actually have increased range. If you are lucky one or two tentacles will spawn outside of Undertow with the rest flailing away on nothing in front of the camera. So all you see from now on is dancing tentacles smacking yourself. 

Do I have to mention Tentacle Swarm is one of the most anoying abilities in the game in itself, it always was it still is. Makes it hard to kill enemys makes it difficult to see what is going on. 

The king of unreliability is canceling out his skills frome each other from now on. Oh I almost forgot speaking of unreliable, his passive sometimes works sometimes not, who knows running Mr. Unreliable himself.

Edited August 11, 2017 by AcceptYourDeath

[FoxFX]

5 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

I have read yours, so I would like you to please explain to me how you have made it so other players do not mind the undertow where the enemies are immune to their attacks, this being one of the reasons ash had its 4th redone and in the wake a loss in damage output with same ability. they wat it is presented to do stripping of abilities and armor and shields while staggering them upon release , to me make more sense. this is my opinion of course

 

 

Hydroid's playstyle with Undertow is in a similar fashion as to how Limbo's playstyle is with Rift and in some way how Ash's playstyle can be with Bladestorm both post and pre-rework: they play some sort of "selfish playstyle" where they have certain conditions to make killing blows to their enemies.

 

For Limbo: he is prefered to move enemies into the Rift to kill them there and get rewarded for doing so.

For Ash: His general playstyle is to kill enemies as fast as possible with the Finishers and Slash procs his abilities can do.

For Hydroid: I can see it as a playstyle to drag enemies into the water to kill them there especially with how Undertow does damage to enemies inside, however the energy drain leaves some changes to be made.

 

In other words, a "selfish playstyle" is worth it for teamplay if they manage to finish their intended target fast enough. Hydroid has that ability to do so with Undertow and with support of some of his other abilities too.

 

This is particularly why the first suggestion I had is to made Undertow give Hydroid energy for each enemy killed underwater. And for the second idea to have Tentacle Swarm increase the Rate of Damage Undertow does until Tentacle Swarm's duration is over.

 

[DE] would like to keep the fast-paced nature of this game into all Warframes, but they also want the abilities for these Warframes to feel rewarding and mean something.

 

Do you feel as if Hydroid's current kit, outside of Hydroid's Augments, feel rewarding now?

[(PSN)varas2110]

I think energy colors should show more prominently in the water but that's just me

 

And maybe make the kraken do something? 

[13QZXXTTX]

Because of the Armor increase, it does sound OK if Immunity was removed, BUT that would come out as a NERF. and the Hydroid Reworks was not over.

PS:

On 8/10/2017 at 11:26 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Feedback appreciated here: 

 

[IBllade]

In a few words Hydroid is better now, but still trash.
First ability can now be charged to have twice the duration and damage.
Uhh... so what's this good for again?

 

Second ability now pulls enemies with you like what a wave's supposed to do.
Damn I wish Nidus exists.

 

Third ability you can now move at the high speed of 2mph, pull enemies and cast abilities while in it. Enemies now take more damage the longer they are in the puddle.
Alright this one I like, but what's the need of this if you can just use your galatine prime and not take up 20 energy per second? (interrupts your team from killing everything.) Damn I wish Nidus exists.

 

Fouth ability now spawns a kraken, holding it will make the range larger and throws enemies higher than high droid. Seeks enemies.
Still the same ability, but at least now you have a friend.

 

Shields, armor, and health increased so he won't die when his out of his puddle.

 

Oh did I mention that you can't make your abilities to pink and look like a phallus? Well done DE, well done. The question still remains, if he has no damage, no duration, no healing, and barely any range, then wth is he supposed to be?

Edited August 11, 2017 by IBllade

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

6 hours ago, Nidus_ said:

barrage does not get more range when you charge it. Hope you enjoy getting eximus leeches stuck in tentacle swarm and not being able to kill them. """""good CC"""""

It sort of looked like it.  Maybe I was just confused by the more amount of them.  I still stand by the rest of what I said.  Also perhaps it's because I mainly use shotguns but i've never really had a difficult time shooting enemies caught in his 4.

6 hours ago, Radagosh said:

Hydroid takes 150 puddle energy to kill 20 lvl 150 eximus bombards now. Problem is his gameplay now is to turn into puddle on a tactical good spot and stay afk for the rest of the mission.

I did mention that the scaling damage for his puddle should be buffed.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)N7ShadowedSoul said:

Here's a suggestion, how about making it this?

Every melee attack that procs a Critical Hit or Status Effect has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that last for 5 seconds. Max of 5 at a time.

I've yet to read the whole post but had to comment on this.  50% on slam attack is annoying but bearable and I agree it doesn't flow very smoothly in game play for most people.  However 50% chance on crits/status?  It may as well be 100% with how quickly crits and status proc on normal attacks.  

While I would absolutely love this, I don't think its how DE wants it to work.  So to maintain some reasonable semblence of the balance they wanted with 50% slam attacks, it would have to be at most 5% chance on crit/status procs  It would still proc fairly often but not so often that its just a given that you'd have 5 tentacles out pretty much at all times.

---

Honestly, I think Warframe has spoiled their players with 100%+ status and critical chance, where they start to think effects should be a near constant thing.

I'm playing another game (or pick a game, any game) where crits occur at base 2% per attack with the max being maybe 30% and that's on attacks (ability casting) with a global cooldown of 1 per second to prevent spam.  This isn't an attack on anyone in particular and has no bearing on the topic, just an observation.

---

TL:DR Effects based around criticals or status procs should not be that easy to maintain.

Okay, reading the rest of the post now.

[Zyneris]

I came here for the title and was disappointed at the lack of twerking droids on drugs. WHY CRUEL WORLD?!

[leadwolf1]

22 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

 

Hydroid's playstyle with Undertow is in a similar fashion as to how Limbo's playstyle is with Rift and in some way how Ash's playstyle can be with Bladestorm both post and pre-rework: they play some sort of "selfish playstyle" where they have certain conditions to make killing blows to their enemies.

 

For Limbo: he is prefered to move enemies into the Rift to kill them there and get rewarded for doing so.

For Ash: His general playstyle is to kill enemies as fast as possible with the Finishers and Slash procs his abilities can do.

For Hydroid: I can see it as a playstyle to drag enemies into the water to kill them there especially with how Undertow does damage to enemies inside, however the energy drain leaves some changes to be made.

 

In other words, a "selfish playstyle" is worth it for teamplay if they manage to finish their intended target fast enough. Hydroid has that ability to do so with Undertow and with support of some of his other abilities too.

 

This is particularly why the first suggestion I had is to made Undertow give Hydroid energy for each enemy killed underwater. And for the second idea to have Tentacle Swarm increase the Rate of Damage Undertow does until Tentacle Swarm's duration is over.

 

[DE] would like to keep the fast-paced nature of this game into all Warframes, but they also want the abilities for these Warframes to feel rewarding and mean something.

 

Do you feel as if Hydroid's current kit, outside of Hydroid's Augments, feel rewarding now?

No I do not right now it is just a farming and low end have fun frame to me. I get fast pace but let just look at  harrow with all his abilities he can not help anyone unless he first chains to get the shields back from using his thurable  and unless he actually kills no energy  is regained . as he wasted his with this fast pace chicken with the head chop off syndrome. My point being, that this game is not the same for all players, some do not think that running to the end and seeing who gets the most kills is what the game is all about , fast ply yes but also strategic in when teaming up for missions what frames play better with other frames in certain missions. with the plains coming I would imagine others are thinking this same way. I really hope DE makes night time on earth be impossible to solo. this again is my opinion. but even the new frames are not on the go killing.

limbo is viable to run with team especially in higher end missions for team play , let me explain: we the players I run with ask me to run with him in mobile defense missions , as you know in these missions you do not have to kill just takes time to defend. so while in limbo with frame and able to stop enemies  as well as replenish energy right. so from time to time I would slap limbo on and stop the enemy we only melee the enemies in limbo stasis while the team also gains the energy for their abilities. as it shrinks it gives a safe haven  and they go in and out killing enemies at will then we move to the next one. Not selfish if you know how to play team style and not worry about the kills. hydroid by stunning them and stripping the shields  and armor become a support frame with the ability to kill with weapons just as fast as the next players

Edited August 11, 2017 by leadwolf1
to add more text for explanation

[ADF01Falken]

Some suggestions concerning the very concept of hydroid and gameplay tweaks:

 - Tempest Barrage: The Champion Gangplank from League of Legends got the same problem with the randomness of the shots fired in his abilities. They solved it with timed salvos covering all the area striking N times. Like all the cannons fired at the same time over and over, and not sequentially. Sidenote: the ability became really badddas with the sound of cannons shooting from afar.

 - Tidal Surge & Undertow: Reading the forums i found the idea to fuse these abilities and it seems to be the right way with those changes. These abilities make the concept of Hydroid change to something like a water elemental. If this is intended then here is the sugestion. This second ability (as a toggle or timed) turn Hydroid into his water form (like a water elemental, Morphling from dota like but maintaining his traces/original form and less wavy. Using the new appearence of the water) making him resistant or invulnerable to shots and meeles damages(with some punishment on his energy if needed) or only resistance do CCs. Giving him a better and less lazy survivability.

Or if the intention is to make something more agressive: Same effect, Turn him into a "water elemental form" and the puddle around him, instead of submerging his enemies. Would make the water slowly take over the enemies (like a slime trying to dissolve food) The enemies would panic. and when complete they'll begin choking, receiving damage over time scalling with time.

And Tidal surge would be his sprint or slide or some movement mechanic.

Why i'm suggesting to remove the undertow submerged enemies: submerged enemies, especially eximus take a long time to die while applying their aura around (toxic, energy drain, etc). causing problems for himself and his team. I know this is a example of something that the player need to learn how to use and not be changed, but hydroid especially have another skill that 'saves' enemies by flailing them around. Invalidating all precision weapons.

- A 3rd New Ability - No suggestion or separating all said above into 2 abilities.

- Tentacle Swarm - It's known that making the creature move around seeking enemies would be a huge effort (and buggy) so the tentacles could move around without a fixed place just inside an area (bigger than the actual...) seeking for enemies and stopping when one or two is get.
 Make use of the new monster animation, make it spray water jets or devour some enemies, or dash toward them to knockdown. Something to not say we did it because its cute (a strange concept of cute... but okay).

I'm not good at english and it may have a lot of errors... but i tried XD.Thank you for your patience.

Edited August 11, 2017 by ADF01Falken

[13QZXXTTX]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:26 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Feedback appreciated here: 

 

3 hours ago, IBllade said:

no healing

Get one of Hydroid's Augment.(From Specific Syndicates).

[LSG501]

ok a little more feedback...

targetting with the tentacles when in 3 is really hit and miss if there's a lot in a group I was forever getting 'invalid target'.  Wouldn't mind a visual to show targeted item similar to what ash has with his 4 too. 

the charge up time for 1 and 4 is too long, I was taking a LOT of damage on IO (is the shield/armour buff etc actually working?) so I'd hate to see the level of damage from higher levels.

There is clear visible glossy (like water texture) square on the surface on corpus (probably other) tilesets when you activate 4, these squares are around the locations of the tentacles and new pet but disappear a second or so later... texture guys likely need to do a tweak so it's not so glossy on launch or at the very least make the square area into a 'circle' so it's more 'water like', at the moment it's kind of like minecraft

[JohnWarframeHimself]

Passive:  when hydroid is standing on water status proc duration will be reduced

Tempest Barrage: make the projectile a little faster

2nd Skill: hydroid shoots pressurize water from his mouth or hand (using this on your 4th skill will make the pool of water bigger)

Undertow/Tidal Surge: press once for undertow hold 3 for tidal surge

4th Skill: hydroid will summon a large pool of water and his kraken will swim in it attacking nearby enemies with its tentacles

Edited August 12, 2017 by Hit0gatana
added more suggestions

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

6 hours ago, TotallyLagging said:

Passive is still terrible

Barrage isn't instant at all and charging puts it in "definitely not instant" category

Tidal surge being interruptible with Undertow is a good QoL change but overall it's just another generic dash whose augment really should've been made built-in

Puddle QoL change is good but was the range nerf really necessary? Like, I (kinda) get nerfing Tentacle Swarm's range due to some people preferring a more concentrated swarm but this ability doesn't need that change. If anything it's worse now, since you have to pull enemies manually to compensate for the range reduction which costs energy. Also, it still takes away enemy and overall slows down your squad. Not as bad as idiotic Stasis Limbo or Frosts but, still, bad. Can't carry enemies around with the puddle either. And Curative Undertow's healing rate was nerfed heavily. It used to be able to heal you by 50% a tick...

Tentacle Swarm is about as useful as Tornado for CC, as in it's incredibly annoying for your teammates because you can't shoot the victims and they'll come back when the duration ends. It removes them temporarily while dealing minimal damage and that's it. Damage is still pathetic. And the Kraken? Seriously? A static model that shows up for a few seconds, wow, what a fearsome monster. Way to completely blew that concept. And trust me, the tentacle is still as unreliable as always. Mostly because you launch people 100 ft in the air and scatters groups when you cast them defeating the entire purpose of the range nerf.

 

His CC is still annoying. He's still good if you just want to sit on an interception point. He's still a loot bot with Pilfering Swarm. And I'll never want him on any team ever. I just hope the hype for the rework will settle down soon, getting tired of Hydroids dying on friggin' Sorties. Like how hard is it to just sit there and be a puddle?

 

He's basically the same, with some QoL changes and an increase in energy consumption. Boy, wonder when was the last time this happened ^{*cough* Oberon's rework *cough*}

It's a lot faster than I remember it from looking at videos and playing with him on console the other day.  ofc charging makes it take longer.  dunno why you needed to put that.

So basically trying to trash on a good change.  Not new but got it.

As I clearly pointed out it's not really a nerf when you can snatch people from farther than his old puddles range. It's 5 energy at base.  That's not much.  and that's not considering modding.  Which old hydroid builds (unless pilfering swarm) used a lot of efficiency and duration.  If your squad needs to kill the enemies right away you can easily leave puddle quickly and kill them while they are recovering.  I mentioned the not carrying thing should be changed.  Can't comment on the augment change.

I'd say that is a false statement.  tornado has absolutely no consistency.  and will travel well and beyond out of the range.  and it's damage is not nearly as consistent.  tentacle swarm has AI to it.  better damage (since it's more consistent and finisher damage) 

Considering your last statement about oberon i'm not going to bother with giving you another reply.  I've dealt with people like you everytime a rework comes around.

 

5 hours ago, Sajochi said:

Hydroid changes didn't help anything. They didn't even address the real problem areas. His passive, 1 and 4 are still extremely unreliable. His 2 is just a generic charge. His 3 got a lot of unnescesary synergy tacked on for I don't know what reasons. DE is usually good about revisiting and reworking frames. They were all met with backlash but the community in the end realized that they were left in a better place than before. Hydroid wasn't. He's the exact same as he was before, but with a bunch of bs added so you can play as a puddle. Maybe my expectations were too high, as I wanted a frame whose abilities are engaging, fun, and reliable. At this point, I just want some consistency in his kit. 

Hydroid needs a full overhaul, and I really hope DE doesn't just tweak some numbers and call it a day. 

 

"real problem areas" is a statement I don't enjoy.  Because that leaves things way too open and virtually impossible for someone to counter.  I'll have to disagree.  from watching gameplay his 1 and 4 seem to be more reliable than before his rework.  His 2 being generic doesn't mean it's a problem that needs changing.  Taking to bashing positive changes for no reason.  nice.  He's not the exact same.  You can't say they made things more about his puddle play and then proceed to say he's the exact same.  He really doesn't need a full overhaul.  The changes made in the rework were great at improving what he does.  and it just needs a few minor tweaks to be "perfect."

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

5 hours ago, Sunseahl said:

As a Hydroid main these changes ARE helpful.... He's now a more solid CC frame.... JUST WITHOUT THE ENERGY.

That's what peas my carrots over this.... Of all the changes he's had done to solidify that he's meant to be a Crowd Control frame.... No one at DE thought he needed the energy near to/on par with Vauban? WTF? Really?


I hope to GOD his Prime version, with Primed Flow, gets an added 200-something energy like Vauban Prime does. It's RIDICULOUS to have a power-gimped CC frame.

I had heard energy might be an issue now.  But i'll have to check that when I use max efficiency and p flow.  But I wouldn't mind a bigger energy pool.

 

5 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

Almost none of the main problems were addressed tbh.

Still hard to hit ulted enemies, 1 and ult still rely heavily on RNG. And some other points.

Only real 2 plusses are skill casting from the puddle and more active play in puddle.

I legit don't see the issue with trying to hit the enemies in his 4.  the "rng" seems to be less effecting in his 4.  his 1 looks better from footage.

 

5 hours ago, Coalfax said:

Uh, has no one noticed that with these changes, they also totally hosed the ranges on his puddle and swarm?  Puddle is down 10 and swarm is down 14-16.  Not certain if these can be gotten back with charging.. I am guessing you get more damage, not range

I mentioned more than once in my opening post about the range changes.

 

4 hours ago, senorbushy said:

gotta say after playing his rework i say he has a lot more consistant cc, you can keep a group down on the ground, it also feels like the damage either was buffed or is more consistant (havent looked at the stat differences yet) saying this i can see him coming into the higher tiers of play more consistently now. 

damage in puddle was buffed.  if you charge his 1 it does more damage.  and his 1 can hit enemies in your puddle.