Regarding the ever growing Primed Warframe stock and their common counterparts left to rust in Alad V's sex dungeon

[Marvelous_A]

True that it's pointless to invest anything on a normal war frame which already has a primed variant. With the fact that you can apply vanilla skin on a prime warframe beats the whole point to getting a standalone version coz they are technically and aesthetically the same.

[Zeclem]

14 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Beg to differ... If I got to pick my polarity choices, it stands to reason that my choices would be those most impactful for my play style. Since mods slots are finite, it's entirely possible to have a regular frame support a loadout that a prime frame with the same number of polarized slots can't.

...That qualifies as better to me.

It isn't and It doesn't.

Don't let paper logic fool you. A Rhino using Parkour gets along every bit as quickly as a Rhino Prime. Saryn prime having a Bigger energy pool means nothing because of the number of ways energy can be replaced in game.

Primes do represent a QoL stat increase... the difference isn't a major one though. The biggest differences are cosmetics and ease of acquisition.  

Nova Prime is one of the few exception to this and her boost is to energy (which is too easily mitigated to be very relevant.

 

formas exist. and no primed frame has crappier base polarities, they always come with extras to use therefore what you just said makes no sense.

is that why people always use energy efficiency/flow within their builds then? if energy replacability was never an issue nobody would ever use those within their builds and quick thinking would be in every single build. 

the base stat that primes provide DO make a very much noticable difference. can regular frames be as useful as primed ones? for the most part yes. but its flat out wrong to claim that primed frames buffs arent anything worthwhile. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 hours ago, Zeclem said:

formas exist. and no primed frame has crappier base polarities, they always come with extras to use therefore what you just said makes no sense.

If you don't think that a regular frame with 2-3 forma in it with polarities you picked to fit your build is better than a Prime with additional polarities that might fit your build...OK.

Sure the Prime can be forma'd to be better in the long run but it wouldn't be at the outset. 

Likewise, A Fully forma'd Prime will fit the same mods as a Fully Forma'd Regular frame.

Based on your comments, I can see how this would not make sense to you though.

4 hours ago, Zeclem said:

is that why people always use energy efficiency/flow within their builds then? if energy replacability was never an issue nobody would ever use those within their builds and quick thinking would be in every single build. 

Well, People don't always use both energy efficiency and flow in their builds... I would go further and say that most people don't often use both energy efficiency and flow in their builds unless they are using channeled abilities heavily or are using corrupts mods that force modding for that additional attribute.

 It sounds more like you are saying, "I do that, therefore everyone else must be doing that too....".

5 hours ago, Zeclem said:

the base stat that primes provide DO make a very much noticable difference. can regular frames be as useful as primed ones? for the most part yes. but its flat out wrong to claim that primed frames buffs arent anything worthwhile. 

Their buffs aren't anything so impactful that it makes their regular counterparts obsolete (Volt's is pretty noticeable though)...That's the point.

Here are the only scenarios I can think of where Prime's are definitively better....

1.  You never put forma into your Regular frame. Additional Polarity is an automatic win regardless of the polarity
2.  You are so new to the game that you had both to choose from at the outset. Clearly, if you have the option to choose... The Prime is the better option.

That's my opinion on the matter.

...Your opinion can be whatever the heck you want it to be and you have every right to it.

That said, If you must continue to argue this point with me... Bring actual proofs as opposed to even more hyperbole next time.

Earlier, you implied that Saryn Prime was,"necessary for melee/hungry builds" as opposed to regular Saryn... Really? Are you sure? I'd sure love to see that build.

Earlier, you said Rhino Prime's speed," makes a massive difference over that of Regular Rhino"...I am a Rhino main and can attest that this is patently false unless you are just straight sprinting (You do that?...Why?) Feel free to prove otherwise.

 

 

 

 

[Zeclem]

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

If you don't think that a regular frame with 2-3 forma in it with polarities you picked to fit your build is better than a Prime with additional polarities that might fit your build...OK.

Outside of ember prime, none of the primed frames have polarities that absolutely wont have any way to fit a build that regular variants can. And even with ember its a non issue.

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

Sure the Prime can be forma'd to be better in the long run but it wouldn't be at the outset. 

Likewise, A Fully forma'd Prime will fit the same mods as a Fully Forma'd Regular frame.

A fully formad prime WILL take less forma to get there tho.

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

Based on your comments, I can see how this would not make sense to you though.

Well, People don't always use both energy efficiency and flow in their builds... I would go further and say that most people don't often use both energy efficiency and flow in their builds unless they are using channeled abilities heavily or are using corrupts mods that force modding for that additional attribute.

Ppl dont use flow or streamline? Why primed flow is considered one of the most important mods then? And why ppl keep asking for primed streamline everywhere and there was a whole lawsuit concerning it? Suuuure people dont use those at all.

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

 It sounds more like you are saying, "I do that, therefore everyone else must be doing that too....".

 

Their buffs aren't anything so impactful that it makes their regular counterparts obsolete (Volt's is pretty noticeable though)...That's the point.

Ive given my proof that people DO use those mods extensively. So its a lot more like YOU claiming that, not me.

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

Here are the only scenarios I can think of where Prime's are definitively better....

1.  You never put forma into your Regular frame. Additional Polarity is an automatic win regardless of the polarity

1.  You are so new to the game that you had both to choose from at the outset. Clearly, if you have the option to choose... The Prime is the better option.

That's my opinion on the matter.

Soo primes are always the better option that doesnt make the regular one irrelevant in most cases just like ive said before but you completely ignored it to show it as your claim?

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

...Your opinion can be whatever the heck you want it to be and you have every right to it.

That said, If you must continue to argue this point with me... Bring actual proofs as opposed to even more hyperbole next time.

Earlier, you implied that Saryn Prime was,"necessary for melee/hungry builds" as opposed to regular Saryn... Really? Are you sure? I'd sure love to see that build.

The 200+ max enery difference alone is a massive buff if you wanted to go and use a melee build (that often makes massive use out of quick thinking for added survival potential) or a range/strength build for your spore/nuke build that makes use of a lot of button presses? 

On 13.08.2017 at 7:32 PM, Padre_Akais said:

Earlier, you said Rhino Prime's speed," makes a massive difference over that of Regular Rhino"...I am a Rhino main and can attest that this is patently false unless you are just straight sprinting (You do that?...Why?) Feel free to prove otherwise.

Sprint speed also effects parkour movements. And theres nothing that needs proving when comparing 1 and 0,90. Its not gamebreaking but it IS noticeable. That %10 difference is actually more noticeable with parkour as well. 

But sure im just using hyperboles and not numbers or any kind of facts.

[Rakosta_Kai]

31 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

But sure im just using hyperboles and not numbers or any kind of facts.

Yup...Pretty much.

[Zeclem]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

Yup...Pretty much.

so you just skipped every fac(200 energy being massive especially with quick thinking, massive general concensus being mods like primed flow being important to the point of causing a lawsuit etc) ive mentioned then. again. aight guess im done here.

[Rakosta_Kai]

12 hours ago, Zeclem said:

so you just skipped every fac(200 energy being massive especially with quick thinking, massive general concensus being mods like primed flow being important to the point of causing a lawsuit etc) ive mentioned then. again.

Yes...

Because it's specious and hyperbolic.

200+ energy isn't actually 200+ energy.

...It's room for 200+ more energy capacity.

You can't spend what you didn't put there (I mentioned energy replacement earlier, but I guess that whizzed past you).

Take a moment and let that marinate.

...

If you are able to constantly regen energy (via whatever means) the high capacity lets you forgo the need for efficiency... With some select exceptions (Quick thinking and select sortie conditions being the biggies imo)...That's about it.

But, since Quick Thinking comes with a handy dandy stun anyway...

 ....Which leads us to why folks don't routinely attempt to max both efficiency and capacity mods unless they are use channeling builds.

...It's overkill because energy is easy to recoup in game.

.10 speed on Rhino is a "huge" difference?...Negative. This game has changed a ton since coptering was necessary and that's mitigated speed differences dramatically.

If you think that speed somehow makes Rhino Prime better than Rhino... I got an Arcane Vanguard helmet I'd be happy to sell you for an obscene amount.

...You'd deserve it.

It's the greatest.

You'll do so much better with it on.

It'll be huge..

So great...

...Trust me. 

12 hours ago, Zeclem said:

aight guess im done here.

That'd be wise.

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 12/08/2017 at 2:53 PM, Neuerwinter said:

As per title, I have a few points to discuss:

 

Oh boy, that was a long read, Also the title is very..Unquie 

The way I play around with Primed Frames and non-primed frames is this:

If I know there is a Primed frame, very soon (Like Hydroid) then I will not waste any Froma or effort in making a decent build for him, as I know the Primed one is right around the bend and I can get a better one. However that does not mean, I will not farm or buy the Normal frame, as I still want the MR fodder and to fully test out, a level 30 frame, before I sink my cash or time into getting a primed frame. 

However, for a frame like Nidus or Limbo, or even Harrow, I know won't be primed for a very long time, so I'll sink time and froma into that frame, due to I like the frame and I know a primed one is quite far away.

 

For in terms of jumping right to Prime, over the older frame: Is mostly due to the original has terrible design and I'm not much a fan of the original look, most of the time primed frames are visually better and on top, they get an upgrade of their own.

But yeah, I can understand where your coming from OP, But you got to remember new players and mid-vets won't be able to get the primed frames, right off the bat, due to both MR locks and farming (And now the new vaulting system).

And with that being said, DE rework bosses lately to make them fun to play with and such, and most ones have resources tied to them for farming other stuff. As well the sorites tend to allow us to fight them again, to go back to.   

Edited August 18, 2017 by Circle_of_Psi

[Zeclem]

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Yes...

Because it's specious and hyperbolic.

200+ energy isn't actually 200+ energy.

...It's room for 200+ more energy capacity.

You can't spend what you didn't put there (I mentioned energy replacement earlier, but I guess that whizzed past you).

Take a moment and let that marinate.

and the point there is? you really claiming that max energy isnt useful "cus you gotta put the energy there"? by that logic health is useless as well since you gotta put it back there too since you will be taking hits. damn all those people who try to increase ehp on their tanks since its useless.

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

...

If you are able to constantly regen energy (via whatever means) the high capacity lets you forgo the need for efficiency... With some select exceptions (Quick thinking and select sortie conditions being the biggies imo)...That's about it.

except you wont always be able to constantly regain energy, and just efficiency wont always compare to higher energy cap that primed flow provides.

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

But, since Quick Thinking comes with a handy dandy stun anyway...

it also gives you more ehp compared vitality+redirection+steel fiber+primed vigor. and that stun got normalized as well. 2 mods giving you a LOT more ehp than all tankyness mods is quite a big deal.

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

 ....Which leads us to why folks don't routinely attempt to max both efficiency and capacity mods unless they are use channeling builds.,

yes which is why primed frames come with a higher energy cap rather than increased efficiency, which was the point i was making(that primed frames are indeed noticeably better).

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

...It's overkill because energy is easy to recoup in game.

not everybody uses zenurik(a lot of people prefer naramon for example), or constantly has crapton of pads or always has a harrow/ev trin with them, considering majority of players do use pubs and those are really seldom to come by in pubs. so yeah, its not "overkill" for a LOT of people. 

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

.10 speed on Rhino is a "huge" difference?...Negative. This game has changed a ton since coptering was necessary and that's mitigated speed differences dramatically.

its not gamebreaking but noticable=huge appearently. 

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

If you think that speed somehow makes Rhino Prime better than Rhino... I got an Arcane Vanguard helmet I'd be happy to sell you for an obscene amount.

maths dont lie. 1.00>0.90. it IS better. and again, its nothing gamebreaking or "huge" but it IS noticeable. 

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

...You'd deserve it.

It's the greatest.

You'll do so much better with it on.

It'll be huge..

So great...

...Trust me. 

how about not resorting to passive agressiveness against actual numbers in your arguments? i have yet to see you prove that claim of 1.00=0.90 or regulars sometimes being better than primes. only regular that can be considered better than prime is wrym prime in this game.

 

[Arniox]

On 8/13/2017 at 1:53 AM, Neuerwinter said:

Consider Lephantis; who battles him for Nekros components which will be used only as mastery fodder anyway now that the Prime is around and is now even easier to obtain since the BP can be found in Meso Relics?

 

same with Vauban. Vauban prime is 100 times easier than Vauban cause you don't need to wait for the alerts. If you're a busy person with a job and school, or uni, you might miss the alerts.

[Arniox]

On 8/13/2017 at 1:53 AM, Neuerwinter said:

but Orokin potatoes are godgiven

I have 18 of these now, and I have every single frame. Literally use them only when a new frame comes out

[Arniox]

On 8/13/2017 at 2:30 AM, Padre_Akais said:

...Very true.

Most Vanilla frames with 3 forma are as good, if not better, than Primes unless we are counting fashion frame (...sometimes even then) as well. 

it's funny, cause I don't like hydroid, but his recent rework at least made me chuck on 4 forma even though his prime is coming very soon. Same thing I did with nekros. I put on 6 forma on my normal nekros about 2 or 3 weeks before he was primed and I did that because of both of these frames reworks being so close to the primes. Maybe they should separate the reworks from the primes? To make the normal frames more viable. Cause right now, when they rework a frame right next to its priming, most peeps won't forma the normal one, they'll wait for the prime.

[Lancars]

be nice to have optional crafting recipe to require a normal frame to make the prime one. Optional.

[Andaius]

It comes down to fashion frame in the end.

[Rakosta_Kai]

On 8/18/2017 at 4:42 AM, Arniox said:

it's funny, cause I don't like hydroid, but his recent rework at least made me chuck on 4 forma even though his prime is coming very soon. Same thing I did with nekros. I put on 6 forma on my normal nekros about 2 or 3 weeks before he was primed and I did that because of both of these frames reworks being so close to the primes. Maybe they should separate the reworks from the primes? To make the normal frames more viable. Cause right now, when they rework a frame right next to its priming, most peeps won't forma the normal one, they'll wait for the prime.

That's happened a couple of times to date.

I think the re-works serve the dual purpose of hyping up the PA and offering regular tuning to the older models.

It's wouldn't surprise if some of the newer models to get primed didn't get re-works though.

On 8/18/2017 at 6:45 AM, Andaius said:

It comes down to fashion frame in the end.

My point exactly.

Air Jordans don't make anyone play basketball better and Prada doesn't make anyone look better either.

@Zeclem, No disrespect intended on the lack of quotes.. It's just too much effort for this exchange today.

-Prime's aren't so impactful to date that they replace regular frames (I would call Volt's as closest with second place to Nova and Saryn). That's my point. Not saying they aren't better (some aren't though), I am saying they aren't so much better that they outshine a well used and attended regular frame outside of cosmetics though.

-All the hyperbole and specious commentary on the planet aren't going to change that though. Cap, Efficiency, both are all options depending on the frame and ability usage.

-Each frame, intent, and tactic is different...Don't use "Everyone does it this way"  as support for an argument into an area where "everyone" actually doesn't.

-Quick thinking is nifty on select frames (low base health/armor high base energy)... Not all frames. This is you being specious again imo.

I personally don't notice Rhino Prime's additional speed ...You seem to. That sounds like it's impact is subjective to the user. 

No one said it wasn't better...I said it wasn't impactful. If you like it...That's great. I couldn't care less about it though.

-That's not passive aggressive...If you think his extra speed is so nifty I really do have an arcane vanguard to sell you.

 

 

 

 

  

[BlueberryIsWar]

On 7/10/2017 at 3:44 PM, Erl-King said:

 

 

On 8/12/2017 at 3:53 PM, Neuerwinter said:

1) with new primed variants of warframes coming out, I wonder how much is it really worth to invest in the common ones. Knowing that the Primes have better stats and added polarities, using Exilus Adapters, Orokin Reactors and several Formas might seem or actually be a waste of these rare* resources. As an experienced/old (2013 bois) player you are knowledgeable about what came out and when it came out, which are the Primes that are already out in free space, or the vaulted ones (I know there's a Loki Prime coming out to say hello sooner or later, so I won't boost the common one to it's max potential), but when I was kind of new and knew jack with a side of squat of the game's new release mechanics or their timeline (like Primes who stay around for 2 years after their release and are unvaulted 2 years later, with some exceptions like Father Frostmas), I never expected Oberon to be primed any time soon, so there went the full package of EA, OR and 5 Formas. Same happened with Hydroid.

So your solution to use less reactors was to just use them on bad frames since they hopefully aren't primed? ...

It probably hinges on how rare 20p is for you. Is investing less than 1$ into a fun warframe you play for hours worth it? Probably.

Edited August 21, 2017 by BlueberryIsWar

[(PSN)jaganar1]

On 8/12/2017 at 10:16 PM, (Xbox One)MaruKips said:

Sooooooo....where's the info on Alad V's sex dungeon?

im pretty sure these SOBs know  and are guarding that secret in a challenge riddled with 2OO of their brothers *ie you have to have a GOD FRAME to get the info *

*dedicated to all of us who hate these CENSORED with a passion *

Spoiler

 

[BetaNoire]

On 8/12/2017 at 10:19 AM, (PS4)JaysInc_ said:

Well I don't know how "practical" it is to only acquire primed frames since you'll be missing out a HUGE chunk of mastery that comes from the regular variants. Also about it quest to be primed, considering Hydroid will be the last starchart-boss acquired frame to be primed and Zephyr to be the third-to-last dojo-acquired frame and receive a prime, I say there's there's considerable long time to worry about quest frames being primed, since Mirage of be the first iirc.

 

I didnt even know you got mastery from them. I thought it only counted ONCE. I didnt know prime/regular was separate. 

 

[S.Dust]

Tl:dr

[Zeclem]

On ‎19‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Padre_Akais said:

 

@Zeclem, No disrespect intended on the lack of quotes.. It's just too much effort for this exchange today.

-Prime's aren't so impactful to date that they replace regular frames (I would call Volt's as closest with second place to Nova and Saryn). That's my point. Not saying they aren't better (some aren't though), I am saying they aren't so much better that they outshine a well used and attended regular frame outside of cosmetics though.

i want numbers that primes arent straight up being better. ive never said they make regulars worthless as you keep implying that i do. if you cant provide any numbers then stop claiming that "sometimes primes arent better at all".

On ‎19‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Padre_Akais said:

-All the hyperbole and specious commentary on the planet aren't going to change that though. Cap, Efficiency, both are all options depending on the frame and ability usage.

numbers arent "hyperbole" and it is a lot more than you provide as your argument.

On ‎19‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Padre_Akais said:

-Each frame, intent, and tactic is different...Don't use "Everyone does it this way"  as support for an argument into an area where "everyone" actually doesn't.

again, give me a build that fits regular frames but doesnt fit primed ones without any forma involved instead of just claiming there are such builds.

On ‎19‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Padre_Akais said:

-Quick thinking is nifty on select frames (low base health/armor high base energy)... Not all frames. This is you being specious again imo.

its not specious, go do some number crunching. quick thinking DOES give more ehp to basically every frame except inaros. 

On ‎19‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Padre_Akais said:

I personally don't notice Rhino Prime's additional speed ...You seem to. That sounds like it's impact is subjective to the user. 

you wouldnt notice its speed sure. but the base armor that rhino prime does effect gameplay since your iron skin sclaes off of armor rating. 

On ‎19‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Padre_Akais said:

No one said it wasn't better...I said it wasn't impactful. If you like it...That's great. I couldn't care less about it though.

you DID said sometimes regulars are flat out better. you might not care and thats ok. but denying numbers (that they are indeed impactful in quite a good amount of cases) is flat out foolish. dont do that.

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Considering the stat differences between the primes and non prime variants don't really make a huge deal in this current version of warframe I don't see the problem.  You pretty much need the base variants to climb the MR ladder.  I am curious on specifically how they will handle obtaining prime versions of quest frames though.  Hydroid is going to give use a few months.  then zypher.  so we have time to give solutions.

I don't consider it a waste of resources fyi.  Things are always changing either due to nerfs/buffs or because a new mechanic is added in or changed.  Warframe has you spending and getting resources on a regular basis.  People should be used to this by now.  I could understand that if someone just built and formaed+ potatoed hydroid and then his prime comes out literally the next day.

but 1) again the stats don't really make a difference.  and 2) DE does a pretty good job letting people know with the in game market and news bulletin.

[(PSN)jaganar1]

 

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)Knight Raime said:

Considering the stat differences between the primes and non prime variants don't really make a huge deal in this current version of warframe I don't see the problem.  You pretty much need the base variants to climb the MR ladder.  I am curious on specifically how they will handle obtaining prime versions of quest frames though.  Hydroid is going to give use a few months.  then zypher.  so we have time to give solutions.

I don't consider it a waste of resources fyi.  Things are always changing either due to nerfs/buffs or because a new mechanic is added in or changed.  Warframe has you spending and getting resources on a regular basis.  People should be used to this by now.  I could understand that if someone just built and formaed+ potatoed hydroid and then his prime comes out literally the next day.

but 1) again the stats don't really make a difference.  and 2) DE does a pretty good job letting people know with the in game market and news bulletin.

YEAH but knight ,the least they could do is in plains    is make the limit  for the ranks *5O or 6O *  cus most of us if not all old timers have hit the MAX RANK already within two months of gameplay . now if this carried over to pRIMES *level 75 limit * id be ok with that as well because  as much as i love WF the max rank thing is a major buzzkill   . look for example BATTLE OF THE IMMORTALS *pokemon meets wow* the max rank for that mmo is 12O  and its not like DE couldnt give us all an extra max rank level *cus 3o i believe is the limit *

 

this is my two cents tho . if you are gonna have a max rank atleast keep it reasonable and with two sets of cloths *VANILLA \ pRIME * it would stand to have two seperate levels of max rank  ~ again VANILLA should in theory be 5O or 65 \ prime 75 ~ and these suggestions are without MODS.

 

ravendark squad out