Warframes: Energy 2.0

[Music4Therapy]

Hello all, I've been playing the game for about a couple years now and feel as though the current energy system has flaws and that the introduction of Zenurik was merely a band-aid for a much larger issue. The current ways to gain energy in the game are either non-interactive, RNG based, the ability to absorb damage + Rage, the inconsistent pet ability Dig, and via the use of items. With how cool/awesome abilities are in this game and the rework of the focus system, I see this as an opportunity to revamp the current system. 

 

Current System: No energy regen outside of Energy Siphon and Zenurik. Energy Pads. Also reliant upon energy orb drops, thus kills and RNG, to gain energy outside of that. We have a Kubrow with the Dig ability that can produce Energy Orbs- due to AI it only uses Dig when there aren't enemies around thus making it unreliable in combat. Zenurik gives a ton of energy, a number of members of the community say too much. I seek to change the way this all works.

 

Proposed System- Energy 2.0

1. The goal here is to reward players for progression while allowing newer players to use their abilities more consistently. Ability Usage = Fun. This is essentially to create fun.

Base Energy Regen for Frames: .5 per second at level 1, further increasing at levels 15 and 30 to 1 and 1.5

Base Energy Regen for Max Level Frames: 1.5 per second.

Note: This may vary from frame to frame. FE: An energy reliant frame like Saryn may start at .66 but finish with 2 per second at level 30. So on and so forth. Some may start with .33 and end at 1 per second.

Right now, the current regen with Zenurik + Energy Siphon is 4.6. Under my system, this now becomes 2.1

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2) The next step is to change how we gain energy outside of passive regeneration. Right now the system is largely RNG based and reliant upon scoring kills to produce said energy orbs. My proposal is to make the game feel more rewarding by removing RNG, thus making it to where enemies no longer drop energy orbs, and replacing it with a "Rampage" system.

 

Rampage: Would work similarly to the melee combo counter, but would be a counter shared among all players within range of one another and would instead be based upon kills as opposed to hits. Killing 3 enemies within affinity range within a span of 5 seconds grants the players in said radius 10 energy. To avoid infinite energy sustainability, the kills required to gain energy would rise each time you achieve the goal in succession. Your kills would contribute to the Rampage counter and will be additive with the kills of your allies within range.

FE: If you and those within range around you are able to kill 3 enemies within 5 seconds, everyone is rewarded with 10 energy. The number of kills required then becomes 6, then 9, then 12, etc... then dropping back down to 3 if players aren't able to reach the goal.

So.

This rewards teamwork and also somewhat reduces the need for Vacuum by eliminating energy orbs from enemy loot tables but allowing them to remain in Crate/Dig tables, which I feel is a goal the team should shoot for. Players that work together will find it easy to generate a large amount of kills rapidly, while lone wolves would also be able to make use of the mechanic but not as effectively. You gain energy the same way you used to, killing enemies, but it FEELS much more rewarding and interactive.

Mods that use energy orbs to trigger would also have fully charging Rampage (Get the required kills for energy) as a trigger effect. This will also make use of these mods much more fluid.

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3) The last step would be to allow pet/sentinel kills to also add to the Rampage counter and to change pet AI in such a way that you would have control of what actions your pet took. Commands would include:

A) Passive: Pet refrains from attacking

B) Aggressive: Normal AI.

C) Use X Ability: Pet uses one of their special abilities.. in this situation, Dig. Give it a longer CD if needed. This would drastically improve the popularity of kubrows and kavats and hopefully have them on par with Sentinels.

 

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Please comment suggestions and opinions.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[redeyedtreefrog]

Your rework doesn't touch trinity, and as such energy economy will stay exactly the same.

Before energy regeneration can even hope to be balance, we must nerf trinity, and before trinity's fanbase comes and rips me apart, yes she does need nerfed.

As you said, energy gains are mostly non-interactive, and trinity is the shining example. So long as trinity can press 2 for infinite energy, balance is doomed.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 minute ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

So long as trinity can press 2 for infinite energy, balance is doomed.

Yup, just like quasi-unlimited energy pads per mission.

Still interesting suggestions, OP, enjoy upvote.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I think if DE does add passive energy regen it should be 1e/sec. Nothing more. And energy should regen past it's base value. Then you can address your builds with the tools you may want if you need more energy like siphon, broken Scepter, Kubro, energize ect.

Also an arcane that grants passive energy to Warframes while in Operator mode sounds interesting too. Like recharging.

Edited September 17, 2017 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[Cmdr-A]

14 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Your rework doesn't touch trinity, and as such energy economy will stay exactly the same.

Before energy regeneration can even hope to be balance, we must nerf trinity, and before trinity's fanbase comes and rips me apart, yes she does need nerfed.

As you said, energy gains are mostly non-interactive, and trinity is the shining example. So long as trinity can press 2 for infinite energy, balance is doomed.

Well DE did say during tennocon that trinity was going to be looked at after that guy who proposed to his girlfriend at tennocon asked about "What about trinity's EV spam?" So i'd say expect something out of that within the future, just not at a reasonable timeframe.

[Music4Therapy]

I mean, I can post a proposed Trinity rework but that seems unnecessary. Allow me to elaborate, I'm not saying she doesn't need a rework and while I do agree that frame ceilings should be balanced with eachother in mind, suggesting that changing how frames work together independent of Trinity is pointless is illogical.

This system is both natural and interactive whilst promoting teamwork by rewarding players who work together with increased energy very similar to the way Energy Orbs would, minus the RNG aspect and overabundance of said orbs. Right now the system at a base level (no mods/zenurik) provides no energy generation but an extraordinary amount via energy orbs, which increases the need for Vacuum substantially and is part of the reason Vacuum is so popular outside of grabbing mods. The new system would provide players with a more moderate/sustained flow of energy.

Consider that a frame with 150 energy needs to pick up 6 energy orbs to be max energy w/o Zenurik or other means of energy generation. This leads to players either be starved or having an overabundance of energy. A frame with 225 would need 9. Again, same problem. This would cut down on the overabundance while allowing players to have reduced downtime.

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Music4Therapy
Grammar

[Koldraxon-732]

As it stands there should be a few things done first before we proceed with trying to change the energy economy.

Before I begin saying, there is Fleeting Expertise, and Streamline. I use them in almost all of my Warframes if their builds have room (and, in Fleeting Expertise's case, if the 'frame's abilities aren't badly impacted - such as Rhino or Inaros -, I apply it to them instead of Streamline).

With the fact of mods like Streamline in mind, now I can proceed.

Spoiler

 

1: Warframes should have an innate energy regeneration that scales up to 4 if there's a full default squad's affinity aura. This can be increased with Energy Siphon.
2: Warframes also should have innate health regeneration that scales up to 8 if there's a full default squad's affinity aura. This can be increased with Rejuvenation. 
2b: Mods like Equilibrium will grant 1/2 health regeneration as energy.
3: Everything (weapons, powers, kills) has a combo counter that decays like the Arca Scisco's which accelerates this regeneration, and grants a powerful burst of energy regen if you are undetected on your first hit. This will incite Loki/Ash/Ivara/Octavia, and others, users to consider going cloak and bringing silent weapons more often to get this extra energy when the opportunity presents itself. The combo counter also influences damage.
3/Example: Soma Prime, with the typical Soma Prime build, no event mods, no riven, VS level 150 Corrupted Bombard. The Bombard would die from focused fire within the clip, if not half upon headshot. This should incite trying to hit the same spot on an enemy consistently to create an artificial weak point, if the system is configured correctly.
4: Energy orbs will continue to drop, as always, and would benefit Warframes who are power hungry, such as Excalibur, Vauban, and Chroma (from personal experience).
5: Warframes will have an innate pickup radius, based on how far a Warframe can reach when bending over upright and reaching when crouched (translation; Warframes get pickup radius, which increases a small bit when crouched, which is not linked to a Sentinel). This would incite use of companions beyond Sentinels (all Sentinels can use Vacuum).

At the very least, this should add more ways to get your energy.

 

 

[Music4Therapy]

-delete-

Edited September 17, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Koldraxon-732]

29 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Neat, now how do you feel about the OP?

I feel the Rampage system would not mesh too well with stealth, depending on its execution and connection with weapons. I like the innate energy idea, but varying it on a per-frame basis will cause people to bias the frames that have the most regeneration and forget the rest. Removing the opportune energy orbs from enemies and objects would make opening caches and breaking crates a waste of time, and turn those into more resource caches nobody would look at unless its, say, an Argon node; it would also detract the unexpectedly helpful boost energy orbs can give sometimes (there's no such thing as too much energy, but this varies from frame to frame).

I also had an idea about allowing an 'Energy Overflow' variable which works as follows:

Spoiler

 

When [Warframe's max energy capacity] is exceeded, [energy] is still gained, but decays at the following rate:
If beyond [Warframe's max energy capacity], drain 0.25 energy until it meets capacity, if 25% over, drain 2.5 energy, and so on.

This would allow 'frames to still pick up orbs, and would incite use of energy due to the decaying variable.

This same variable can then be applied at a rate of 0.01 when there's an Energy Drain Nightmare modifier, because honestly the drains from those are so much that bringing a power-reliant 'frame is pointless.

As for Companions, I don't know where you're going to fit Pet Commands beyond the Gear and/or Emote wheels. On that topic, [SPOILER: Second Dream, War Within].

Spoiler

I had an idea for an Arcane or some sort of unlockable ability that allows you to turn your Warframe into a Specter in missions, allowing you to, for example, weaken a Sentient Fighter or deal with Kuva while your Warframe parkours and distracts.

Your Tenno's own Gear wheel would be customizable separately, and only inherits Scanners, Glyph projectors, and Ciphers. 
This is because your Warframe, and by extension, your Companion (if these 'gear-emotes' are put on your Warframe) would have commands issued through them as follows:

1: Wake/sleep: Activates Warframe Specter mode, or turns it off; 'sleep' causes it to use the Focus Power 'sleep' animation used when you activate Focus.

2: Attack attacked target: Attacks the target you most recently attacked. Shooting an ally or friendly objective causes the Warframe to defend it.

3: Go [target]: Also works as a follow command if an ally is shot by your Void Beam; shooting a spot for a time increases wandering radius. 

4: Wander/return: Allows the Warframe to roam the area instead of always being beside you, or calls it to your side.

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Koldraxon-732
Also, about Energy Drain Nightmares.

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

I feel the Rampage system would not mesh too well with stealth, depending on its execution and connection with weapons. I like the innate energy idea, but varying it on a per-frame basis will cause people to bias the frames that have the most regeneration and forget the rest. Removing the opportune energy orbs from enemies and objects would make opening caches and breaking crates a waste of time, and turn those into more resource caches nobody would look at unless its, say, an Argon node; it would also detract the unexpectedly helpful boost energy orbs can give sometimes (there's no such thing as too much energy, but this varies from frame to frame).

I also had an idea about allowing an 'Energy Overflow' variable which works as follows:

  Hide contents

 

When [Warframe's max energy capacity] is exceeded, [energy] is still gained, but decays at the following rate:
If beyond [Warframe's max energy capacity], drain 0.25 energy until it meets capacity, if 25% over, drain 2.5 energy, and so on.

This would allow 'frames to still pick up orbs, and would incite use of energy due to the decaying variable.

 

As for Companions, I don't know where you're going to fit Pet Commands beyond the Gear and/or Emote wheels. On that topic, [SPOILER: Second Dream, War Within].

  Hide contents

I had an idea for an Arcane or some sort of unlockable ability that allows you to turn your Warframe into a Specter in missions, allowing you to, for example, weaken a Sentient Fighter or deal with Kuva while your Warframe parkours and distracts.

Your Tenno's own Gear wheel would be customizable separately, and only inherits Scanners, Glyph projectors, and Ciphers. 
This is because your Warframe, and by extension, your Companion (if these 'gear-emotes' are put on your Warframe) would have commands issued through them as follows:

1: Wake/sleep: Activates Warframe Specter mode, or turns it off; 'sleep' causes it to use the Focus Power 'sleep' animation used when you activate Focus.

2: Attack attacked target: Attacks the target you most recently attacked. Shooting an ally or friendly objective causes the Warframe to defend it.

3: Go [target]: Also works as a follow command if an ally is shot by your Void Beam; shooting a spot for a time increases wandering radius. 

4: Wander/return: Allows the Warframe to roam the area instead of always being beside you, or calls it to your side.

 

As far as the pet commands go, it'd be simple for pc but I can see it being complicated for consoles which is why I'd suggest creating a new HUD/interface for consoles. Using the d-pad would show a quick menu in which you can choose between your pet menu, gear menu, emotes, and your 4 warframe abilities and your operator. 8 total selections to choose from with 8 directions: Up, Down, Left, Right, Up+Right, etc... you'd press *X, Square, etc.. insert whatever button here* to choose said option once highlighted.

[Koldraxon-732]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

As far as the pet commands go, it'd be simple for pc but I can see it being complicated for consoles which is why I'd suggest creating a new HUD/interface for consoles. Using the d-pad would show a quick menu in which you can choose between your pet menu, gear menu, emotes, and your 4 warframe abilities and your operator. 8 total selections to choose from with 8 directions: Up, Down, Left, Right, Up+Right, etc... you'd press *X, Square, etc.. insert whatever button here* to choose said option once highlighted.

This is where the Gear menu can come in, as the D-pad is already wired (left/right = Power selection, up I think was to mark something, and down was to access the emote wheel, or so I think). Otherwise, taking the Gear menu and binding another layer of wheels to the Select/other-Start-button (making a new UI for that, or re-using gear wheels) to attach other things like pet commands or, for the case of Sentinels, a means to call up Ordis and buy a replacement Sentinel for credits and Affinity.

In Conclave, the select button should be linked to the UI showing kills/deaths, oro/objective so you can quick-check who's in the lead. This may have already been suggested.

[Lady_Xenomorph]

The passive energy and hp regen per sec was suggested long ago but they ignored these threads and in the meanwhile they added 2 aura mod to fill this role. Still these could be useful because the auras are team based but a self regen would not hurt the game too much because that amount what can replenish is low ocmpared to the health-energy orb drops and mods like equilibrium and rage - lifesteal mods what can do. This just could mean you can hide at least somewhere and regen your hp and energy slowly but in a fast paced game this have no so much affect because in endless missions where hordes spawn these mods cannot be too strong boost. On missions like spy, extermination could be useful because there are places to hide.

Also there are the pizzas which gives instant you so much hp and energy so basically you cannot run out unless there are eximus units and other enemies which can take your full hp so fast.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

passive energy regen is a broken idea, the ability to bypass huge parts of the games combat by making enemies unable to even attack is y we dont need it

the game is too easy, and new players can make it all the way throu war within without focus, why cant everyone els?
 

also can we have wall running be more useful then bullet jumping again at some point? we still have parts of maps for it, but u can just bypass those areas with a single bullet jump and aim glide combo

[Music4Therapy]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

passive energy regen is a broken idea, the ability to bypass huge parts of the games combat by making enemies unable to even attack is y we dont need it

the game is too easy, and new players can make it all the way throu war within without focus, why cant everyone els?
 

also can we have wall running be more useful then bullet jumping again at some point? we still have parts of maps for it, but u can just bypass those areas with a single bullet jump and aim glide combo

Do you copy/paste this on all threads that mention this? Lol. I offered 3 ideas that I feel would collectively enhance the Warframe experience. Right now energy regen from Zenurik is 4 per second and either too little or too many energy orbs drop pending on how quickly you/your group are dispatching enemies. The current system without Zenurik doesn't feel right and is very RNG based as to whether or not you get ability usage unless you use Energy Pads or are a frame that can use Rage effectively. 

In other words, we're either out of energy or near-full/full the vast majority of the time. Having 1.5 energy per second and less energy overall from outside sources but more consistent/gradual/interactive I feel is a happy medium.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

27 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

we're either out of energy or near-full/full the vast majority of the time. Having 1.5 energy per second and less energy overall from outside sources but more consistent/gradual/interactive I feel is a happy medium.

ok now if we have less energy drops but have a low regen of 2.0 insted i cna deal with, but any higher is busted 

[Gurpgork]

I do really like the idea of gaining energy directly through kills, but I feel like you've missed one crucial issue that needs to be addressed in any energy economy rework: The efficiency stat.

Efficiency really needs to scale linearly like every other stat, because right now, it actually scales exponentially, which makes it a hilariously broken god stat.

Here's a long-winded explanation. Note that I'm totally ignoring mod constraints and hard caps. 

Spoiler

Power strength scales linearly, meaning that every 1% of strength you add to your Warframe adds the same amount of damage to a damage based ability, while also meaning that investing higher into the stat has diminishing returns.

If you have an ability that deals 100 damage and add 100% strength to your Warframe, you double the damage of the ability to 200. If you add an additional 100% on top of that, you increase the ability by the same amount, increasing it to a total of 300, but you've only increased the damage of the ability by 50%.

So after you've increased your strength to 200% and doubling the benefit of the ability, you would need to increase your strength to 400% to double it again. If you wanted to double it a third time, you would need to increase your strength to a whopping 800%. 

Note that each 100% of strength you add still adds 100 damage.

So overall, the scaling of strength gives it diminishing returns; every time you want to double your damage, it takes twice as much effort.   

Efficiency, on the other hand, scales exponentially. Since it's a percentage-based reduction to the cost of an ability, it actually becomes more powerful the more of it you stack.

Adding 50% efficiency will decrease the cost of a 100 energy ability to 50. That's the first problem. With strength, adding 100% of it was necessary to double the effectiveness of the ability. With efficiency, however, only an additional 50% was necessary to double the effectiveness of the ability (because you can cast it twice off of the same amount of energy). 

Now if I wanted to double the power of the ability again (meaning halving the cost again), I would only need to increase my efficiency from 150% to 175%, reducing the cost of the ability from 50 to 25. If I wanted to halve the cost a third time, I'd only need to add 12.5% efficiency.

And here's the problem. Every time I halve the cost of my ability, it becomes half as difficult to halve it again. In other words, the stat becomes more powerful the more of it you already have. 

At 299% strength, World on Fire deals 1,196 damage. If strength scaled the same way efficiency does, you would only need 175% strength to reach this number (or slightly exceed it). If strength scaled the way efficiency does and was increased to 299%, World on Fire would deal roughly 3,200 damage. 

This is why efficiency is hard capped and every other stat isn't, and why the efficiency stat needs to change, not only for the sake of consistency, but for the sake of the game's balance. 

Any energy economy rework that adds inherent energy regeneration without simultaneously addressing the efficiency stat to curb ultimate spam is ultimately going to turn the game into more of a broken mess than it already is. 

[Fallen_Echo]

The rework sound good my only problem is the rampage system. It requies kills to work and as the game scales you achive less and less kills meaning you will earn less energy.

How about a damage dependant and a kill dependant way of energy restore?

If you kill a target you activate the rampage system you suggested but if you dont you gain 1 energy/hit for 5 seconds with an 3 sec cooldown, max energy gain is capped at 10. This way even in grineer lv100 armor sorties and in high level content you can still earn energy reliably. As a bonus you can add in a system what gives 1/sec energy regen if someone uses up all his ammo.

[Music4Therapy]

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Any energy economy rework that adds inherent energy regeneration without simultaneously addressing the efficiency stat to curb ultimate spam is ultimately going to turn the game into more of a broken mess than it already is. 

I found your post very interesting, and it's given me a lot to think about. However, I would like to give an answer to this point:

Under the current we have no base regen, but we can have what... 4.6 per second with Zenurik+Energy Siphon? And we gain 25 energy per orb? I'm effectively more than halving the max potential energy gain, without Zenurik but with my new system the energy per second then becomes 2.1... or 1.5 per second + the .6 from Energy Siphon.

Even further, with the current system of energy orbs we either have an overflow of energy or are tapped out. We have chance to obtain energy based on enemies we kill dropping an orb which generates 25 energy. The new system removes the RNG aspect and lowers the amount gained from killing enemies (only 10 energy per instance of Rampage) to 10 instead of 25.

If the system is too harsh, you can then begin tweaking the Rampage system to give more energy per instance of Rampage rather than a flat 10.

 

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The rework sound good my only problem is the rampage system. It requies kills to work and as the game scales you achive less and less kills meaning you will earn less energy.

How about a damage dependant and a kill dependant way of energy restore?

If you kill a target you activate the rampage system you suggested but if you dont you gain 1 energy/hit for 5 seconds with an 3 sec cooldown, max energy gain is capped at 10. This way even in grineer lv100 armor sorties and in high level content you can still earn energy reliably. As a bonus you can add in a system what gives 1/sec energy regen if someone uses up all his ammo.

I wanted the Rampage system to take over the current role Energy Orbs take over. Both the Rampage system and Energy Orbs are rewards for killing enemies.

99% of the time, I am typically on the side you're on. I'm not a fan of on kill abilities/effects in this game or others, preferring the more consistent "on hit" effects. That said, this is the way to go. Partially due to the broken damage system this game has (I also did a write up on that and my suggestions to fix that, though it was made prior to the release of Melee Rivens) The other part because I felt it a great way to encourage players to work together and felt a more interactive and consistent approach like the Rampage system would result in a fun replacement for the RNG based Energy Orb that also drops from enemies without the issue it has of always been either near full/completely full of energy or tapped out.

14 hours ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

Removing the opportune energy orbs from enemies and objects would make opening caches and breaking crates a waste of time, and turn those into more resource caches nobody would look at unless its, say, an Argon node; it would also detract the unexpectedly helpful boost energy orbs can give sometimes

Energy orbs would only be removed from enemy loot tables but would remain on the Dig and Crate tables.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

I wanted the Rampage system to take over the current role Energy Orbs take over. Both the Rampage system and Energy Orbs are rewards for killing enemies.

99% of the time, I am typically on the side you're on. I'm not a fan of on kill abilities/effects in this game or others, preferring the more consistent "on hit" effects. That said, this is the way to go. Partially due to the broken damage system this game has (I also did a write up on that and my suggestions to fix that, though it was made prior to the release of Melee Rivens) The other part because I felt it a great way to encourage players to work together and felt a more interactive and consistent approach like the Rampage system would result in a fun replacement for the RNG based Energy Orb that also drops from enemies without the issue it has of always been either near full/completely full of energy or tapped out.

Im not really fan of ideas what harden my daily life just because i dont use the most broken or overpowered weapons avaible currently. If i could choose i would take a system what rewards action and objective completion rather than something what becomes irrelevant if you dont go max cheese.

What do you think about this two ideas?

1) Action regen: dealing damage to enemies grants energy regen. Starting from 0.1/sec to max 2/sec depending on enemy hp. Low level targets grant pitiful energy as they have low health but starting from lv 50 you gain 1/sec and at lv100 2/sec.

2)Objective bonus: completing the objective or working toward it grants 40 energy every 15 sec. This includes killing around a def target in a 20m circle, picking up air drops in survival, not getting detected in spy and helping the operative escape.

 

Also i just noticed that you said that these balls get removed from enemy drop tables. What happens to mods depending on these?

[Music4Therapy]

36 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im not really fan of ideas what harden my daily life just because i dont use the most broken or overpowered weapons avaible currently. If i could choose i would take a system what rewards action and objective completion rather than something what becomes irrelevant if you dont go max cheese.

What do you think about this two ideas?

1) Action regen: dealing damage to enemies grants energy regen. Starting from 0.1/sec to max 2/sec depending on enemy hp. Low level targets grant pitiful energy as they have low health but starting from lv 50 you gain 1/sec and at lv100 2/sec.

2)Objective bonus: completing the objective or working toward it grants 40 energy every 15 sec. This includes killing around a def target in a 20m circle, picking up air drops in survival, not getting detected in spy and helping the operative escape.

 

Also i just noticed that you said that these balls get removed from enemy drop tables. What happens to mods depending on these?

1) I can see a damage dealt mechanic being abused. FE: I take Rhino with max range/efficiency and 62.5m stomp. If it's based on enemy hp, 2 energy per second per enemy would allow him to spam stomp. If it's based on damage dealt, this creates another problem. Due to this replacing energy orbs as an outside source of energy, it would allow you to gain energy even while channeling abilities. I can see frames like Excalibur, Banshee, Ember, etc... abusing this for infinite uptime.

2) I was thinking something similar to this would be nice. I'm all for encouraging squadplay, but I also wouldn't want to force it in order to not be starved for energy. I feel any system in place should provide a consistent stream of energy, and having a kill-based system seems to work nicely with this game being a horde-style game ON TOP of the passive frame regen I proposed. That said, having something like that on top of this could be cool. At the end of that day, this is a fast-paced horde game and I want as much freedom given to the players as possible. 

 

3) They'd get reworked to where instead of requiring an energy orb they'd require you/your team to complete a stage of Rampage, or in other words 3 kills in a 5 second span for the first stage and so on. I'd also like energy orbs to continue to work as well, as they would still be able to be gained via crates and Dig.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Music4Therapy said:

can see a damage dealt mechanic being abused. FE: I take Rhino with max range/efficiency and 62.5m stomp. If it's based on enemy hp, 2 energy per second per enemy would allow him to spam stomp. If it's based on damage dealt, this creates another problem. Due to this replacing energy orbs as an outside source of energy, it would allow you to gain energy even while channeling abilities. I can see frames like Excalibur, Banshee, Ember, etc... abusing this for infinite uptime.

Its not dependant on damage dealt, only on how strong the opponent is. The more total ehp a mob have the more energy regen we gain but i guess it should only accept weapons as damage sources.

1 hour ago, Music4Therapy said:

I was thinking something similar to this would be nice. I'm all for encouraging squadplay, but I also wouldn't want to force it in order to not be starved for energy. I feel any system in place should provide a consistent stream of energy, and having a kill-based system seems to work nicely with this game being a horde-style game ON TOP of the passive frame regen I proposed. That said, having something like that on top of this could be cool. At the end of that day, this is a fast-paced horde game and I want as much freedom given to the players as possible. 

Thanks:)

1 hour ago, Music4Therapy said:

They'd get reworked to where instead of requiring an energy orb they'd require you/your team to complete a stage of Rampage, or in other words 3 kills in a 5 second span for the first stage and so on. I'd also like energy orbs to continue to work as well, as they would still be able to be gained via crates and Dig.

So they keep their original values while they gain a new triggers? Intresting.

[Danjal777]

My idea is as follows:

1. All current sources of energy remain, however they are supplementary, not the primary source of energy.

2. Each school has a different mechanic for energy regen:

A. Madurai- every 100 points of damage dealt grants 1 energy (capped at 5 energy in one attack) the cap is increased by 5 every for every power of ten enemies you kill in one mission (10 enemies to 10 energy per hit, 100 enemies to 15, 1000 enemies to 20)  (Also +25% power str)

B. Unairu- 25% of damage taken is converted into energy. When health is below 50% energy conversion is increased to 50%, when below 10% it becomes 100% (Also 25% damage reduction)

C. Zenurik- energy regen +2/sec, picking up an energy orb increases it to +3/sec and +1/sec for allies within affinity range for 10 secs (Also +25% efficiency)

D. Naramon- when undetected, energy regen +1/sec.  Stealth finishers grant 50 energy, finishers grant 25 energy. (Also decreases detection range 25%)

E. Vazarin- every 100 health healed from any source within affinity range gives 10 energy and energy regen of .25/sec for 10 secs, stacks up to +1.5. Picking up a health orb doubles your energy regen for 10 secs. (Also health regen +4/sec aura)

3. At any time, a melee channel can be done while standing still, if held for 2 seconds, you gain 5 energy/sec until you stop.  Also can be achieved with the meditate emote.

I feel strongly that all energy should come from the player, not from blue orbs that fall out of enemies.  This aspect of Warframe has always felt sloppy and out of place.

[Koldraxon-732]

2 minutes ago, Danjal777 said:

[Focus schools give different energy acquisition methods + buffs]

I pray for DE to look into adding those methods for the Tenno Schools, as they can not only benefit your Warframe, but also augment the Tenno's own stance in combat - despite their core design being more of a toolkit with a small array of utilities (as of now, pre Plains).

In addition it would make using other Schools even more worth considering beyond just Naramon, because of the embedded passives (which could have the ones unlocked via Focus, if that tree doesn't change too much, stack on top), or makes other Schools worth using when someone already has Naramon in your squad (tactically talkative team rearranges Focus based on situational requirements, such as*).

*
 

Spoiler

Possible examples if:

Spoiler

Infested:
1 Naramon to confuse Ancients, 2 Vazarin, 1 Madurai (may vary depending on team preference).
Grineer:
2 Madurai, 1 Unairu, 1 Vazarin (or Zenurik).
Corpus:
1 Naramon to distract Bursas, disorganize them, 2 Unairu (resistance to Sapping Ospreys), 1 Zenurik.
Corrupted/Orokin:
1 Naramon to confuse Ancients, 1 Unairu/Madurai, Vazarin, and Zenurik.
Sentient:
2 Madurai, 1 Naramon, 1 Zenurik/Vazarin/Unairu.

Are faced.

 

[Music4Therapy]

As far focus schools go, I would personally go another direction with it and would have them supplement Warframe's roles in parties, each school supporting a different role.

One of the problems with Warframe and it's Dev Team is that they can't figure out how to balance the game. There are 2 reasons for this:

1) The lack of dev supported roles. Us players may label certain frames as support frames or defender frames, but this isn't actively supported by the dev team by way of design. It's because of this that some frames get left behind in coordinated play. Without giving frames a set role and ways to perform set role some by default will be left in the dust in the highest levels of coordinated play. Oberon is an example of this. Does many things well but due to the lack of anything that would make him essential to a group he is left behind. Compare this to Frost who performs the essential task of protecting the party or objective(s) from harm via his bubble.

Frames should be given roles and way to reliably accomplish said roles.

FE:

Defender: Protects allies and objectives from harm. Examples: Frost, Volt, Limbo

Crowd Control: Severely limits the capabilities of enemies, essential to a horde environment to prevent being overrun. Hard CC is a must. Examples: Banshee, Rhino, Excalibur, Vauban

Damage: Able to deal high amounts of scaling damage. Again, essential to be able to keep up with the scaling of enemies. Examples: Equinox, Octavia

Support: Provides all around parry support and mission utility. Examples: Trinity, Nekros

Using the above frames mentioned in conjunction with one another you will be capable of trashing anything the game has to offer.

 

2) The lack of an endgame. Without an endgame in mind, there is effectively nothing to balance the game around. You can see just looking at frames that they are balanced by different standards. Some are clearly designed around Sortie level enemies while others are design around the infinitely scaling enemies.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Music4Therapy]

-delete-

Edited September 19, 2017 by Music4Therapy