Zephyr is cool, but what changes should be made?

[GuezMan]

So for a while I've had Zephyr in my arsenal, with no real purpose to use her other than going zoom zoom and be an airplane(sort of...). But since my recent use of her, and being that she's the possibly next on the spot for a prime variant and rework. What do you guys think should changed or be redone?

I think a flight mechanic like Titanias would be cool except you would be using your own weapons maybe instead of a special weapon.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Well, she does need a rework.

I think her turbulence and tornado are mostly fine, and should be kept, but improved with a few quality of life improvement...

What mostly needs a rework are her tail wind and dive bomb abilities. They should not be two different abilities.

Heck, I wish they would do something akin to what they did with limbo and make it so that pressing the roll button activates a flying mode for zephyr... This would give her an unique feel to other frames, plus it would allow her to fly on command without energy costs at the tip of a button. Maybe dive bomb could still exist as an AOE attack while airborne, but that would free another ability slot for a cool wind-based skill.

Give her an awesome look for the prime, and with the release of the plains, she'll be really popular since you could enter flight mode and fly all over the place/dive bomb into enemy camps.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

What mostly needs a rework are her tail wind and dive bomb abilities. They should not be two different abilities.

Tailwind as bulletjump replacement (can be recast in air by doublejumping, no energy cost), Divebomb could replace melee slam attack, it would scale with both melee and Warframe mods however.

This would let us have 2 slots for new fancy skills, whatever they would be.

Edited September 25, 2017 by JuicyButthurt

[(PSN)watt4hem]

14 minutes ago, JuicyButthurt said:

Tailwind as bulletjump replacement (can be recast in air by doublejumping, no energy cost), Divebomb could replace melee slam attack, it would scale with both melee and warframe mods however.

That'd be an op parkour advantage as all hell... And you'd also miss out on jat kittag, titscor (the new hammer, forgot the name), heat swords, ohma, and many other cool slam attacks.

I'd say keep tailwind as is, make it so dive bomb triggers by using tailwind while looking down / by holding the ability button. 

As for some suggestions, i like her curent passive but it can sometimes hinder you since i've personaly been acustomed to the normal fall speedof other frames. My suggestion'd be to make her passive to glide (curent zephyr fall speed) only activate if you hold the jump button.

No clue what to put in to replace her 2, maybe something akin to banshee's 1, but it also throws zephyr a few meters back sort of as an escape/mini cc ability?

Edited September 25, 2017 by (PS4)watt4hem

[[DE]Grzegorz]

3 hours ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

That'd be an op parkour advantage as all hell... And you'd also miss out on jat kittag, titscor (the new hammer, forgot the name), heat swords, ohma, and many other cool slam attacks.

I'd say keep tailwind as is, make it so dive bomb triggers by using tailwind while looking down / by holding the ability button. 

As for some suggestions, i like her curent passive but it can sometimes hinder you since i've personaly been acustomed to the normal fall speedof other frames. My suggestion'd be to make her passive to glide (curent zephyr fall speed) only activate if you hold the jump button.

No clue what to put in to replace her 2, maybe something akin to banshee's 1, but it also throws zephyr a few meters back sort of as an escape/mini cc ability?

Just throwing ideas in the wind, seeing what sticks, maybe someone smarter than me could refine the idea.

Zephyr already is OP-ish in terms of mobility and likely always will be. In regards to Divebomb, it might as well be an effect along what melee does or have ridiculous CC stun/ragdoll on it by default.

As for her passive, we need even more aircontrol.

[Xgomme]

Zephyr is really good, people just don't know how to build most of her abilities (divebomb vortex build with heavy impact, how to cheese ODD  )

 

And I still don't want divebomb and tailwind merged, both abilities won't work merged (I don't want to divebomb each time I use tailwind looking down)

Imo tailwind should be moved (and tweaked) to her roll, like they did for Limbo, and divebomb as 1 with the big jump form tailwind as "floor" version
(this tailwind roll have to be multidirectionnal including everything a roll can do, and still cost energy and be modable like actual tailwind, if you are out of energy she'll do a classic roll)

Add a new ability to "hover" sort of channeled thing where she open some wings (for the deluxe) and stay stationary mid air consuming energy to shoot with her weapon (possible added buff for her while doing it, so it's not useless near the floor too. Something like Daikyu's PVP augment, a bonus dmg for the distance)

And last tweaks are for tornadoes, they need something like Mag bullet attractor, so you won't take 5 years to find that flying mob

Edited September 25, 2017 by Xgomme

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 hour ago, Xgomme said:

I still don't want divebomb and tailwind merged, both abilities won't work merged (I don't want to divebomb each time I use tailwind looking down)

Who uses Tailwind while looking down?

1 hour ago, Xgomme said:

Imo tailwind should be moved (and tweaked) to her roll, like they did for Limbo,

That's not a very good idea. The difference between Limbo's Dash and Zephyr's Tailwind is massive. The most obvious being that dashing while playing Limbo won't launch you across the map as if from a trebuchet, which is what would happen if Tailwind was moved to a roll. Making it modable and not being cast with no energy would also be weird.

 

 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

For me, Zephyr's Turbulence ability is her saving grace, especially with the Jet Stream Augment. Her first two abilities are fun when in wide open maps, although I don't seen why they were never one ability in the first place. Her third is great, so that should stay as it is. Her fourth is meh. It's a hell of a lot more reliable than Hydroids fourth at least. I personally think her first two abilities need a full rework while her fourth needs a few QoL tweaks.

I can only hope DE's synergy fetish won't compel them to make it so that all Zephyr's abilities revolve around Dive Bomb.

[GuezMan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

For me, Zephyr's Turbulence ability is her saving grace, especially with the Jet Stream Augment. Her first two abilities are fun when in wide open maps, although I don't seen why they were never one ability in the first place. Her third is great, so that should stay as it is. Her fourth is meh. It's a hell of a lot more reliable than Hydroids fourth at least. I personally think her first two abilities need a full rework while her fourth needs a few QoL tweaks.

I can only hope DE's synergy fetish won't compel them to make it so that all Zephyr's abilities revolve around Dive Bomb.

I agree, I always thought zephyr was a cool concept but with the execution, hard to control(1st ability), not entirely role specific, had some use with her 3rd but the other abilities not so much, and when they released titania it saddened me to see that titania could do what Zephyr could not, Fly.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, GuezMan said:

I agree, I always thought zephyr was a cool concept but with the execution, hard to control(1st ability), not entirely role specific, had some use with her 3rd but the other abilities not so much, and when they released titania it saddened me to see that titania could do what Zephyr could not, Fly.

Yea Titania kind of put Zephyr to shame. A bird-themed wind frame who can't fly. Kind of laughable really. Guess she was modelled after the Dodo or another flightless bird.

[Xgomme]

Well I guess I'll just answer everything randomly here... So much quotes !

The point of a rework when it's for an old frame is not to ruin how the few people actually playing the frame use it.

If you want to use Zephyr mobility like you should, you'll totally use tailwind to go down. If you build Divebomb properly it's a crazy good cc+packing, and it's even a nuke for middle lvl missions like ODD. (And knowing DE, something with a working/good augment will not disapear)

Basically the problems you have with the roll is why it's moddable, and why I said "tweaked"

Since Titania can free fly and Zephyr can flap, and both have total different gameplay... No shame here

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Turbulence needs a buff, i still get one shoted by a ballista in kuva flood mission, and i have turbulence skill active with 175% power strength. Also instagibbed by juggy's neddle barage. 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

The point of a rework when it's for an old frame is not to ruin how the few people actually playing the frame use it.

No the point of a rework is to make an unused or underwhelming frame better. Whether or not that ruins the frame is entirely subjective.

4 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

f you want to use Zephyr mobility like you should, you'll totally use tailwind to go down.

No I wouldn't. I'd just ground slam because that

1: Costs no valuable energy

2: Is a lot quicker

3: Puts me down on the exact spot I'm aiming at and not making me tunnel head first into a wall on the other side of the room.

Using Tailwind while looking down doesn't make any sense when you have ground slam.

6 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Basically the problems you have with the roll is why it's moddable, and why I said "tweaked"

Rolls should never be modable. That just adds more complications when trying to create a build. If Tailwind is made a roll, then it will have to be changed drastically. Making it effected by mods wouldn't be worth it.

7 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Since Titania can free fly and Zephyr can flap, and both have total different gameplay... No shame here

Zephyr is a wind elemental frame. One of the most basic things those types of powers allow you to do is fly. At the very least her passive should allow you to hover in mid air while you're aiming down sights.

The rework will hopefully change her first two abilities. I just hope beyond all hopes Scott doesn't repeat the Hydroid "rework".

[GuezMan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Turbulence needs a buff, i still get one shoted by a ballista in kuva flood mission, and i have turbulence skill active with 175% power strength. Also instagibbed by juggy's neddle barage. 

Well I think that the 3rd ability is good on its own not necisarily needing a buff

[Xgomme]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

No the point of a rework is to make an unused or underwhelming frame better. Whether or not that ruins the frame is entirely subjective.

No I wouldn't. I'd just ground slam because that

1: Costs no valuable energy

2: Is a lot quicker

3: Puts me down on the exact spot I'm aiming at and not making me tunnel head first into a wall on the other side of the room.

Using Tailwind while looking down doesn't make any sense when you have ground slam.

Rolls should never be modable. That just adds more complications when trying to create a build. If Tailwind is made a roll, then it will have to be changed drastically. Making it effected by mods wouldn't be worth it.

Zephyr is a wind elemental frame. One of the most basic things those types of powers allow you to do is fly. At the very least her passive should allow you to hover in mid air while you're aiming down sights.

The rework will hopefully change her first two abilities. I just hope beyond all hopes Scott doesn't repeat the Hydroid "rework".

- Zephyr is already really really good, if you don't know the frame that much don't ask for changes, I guess
- Ground slam have a way higher recovery time, you basically lose time and control since it's basically like if you pressed divebomb.... (+ you can melee attack after tailwind)
- Tailwind is already moddable, did you even play more than one random build with Zephyr ?
- She can fly, like birds do, while flapping. She's not a plane


And yep I'm ok with the hover, I asked that as new 2. But the "roll tailwind" should mostly work like the one we have, and could be only active when you have Turbulence on. So you can still use regular roll even if you have energy

Edited September 25, 2017 by Xgomme

[AzureTerra]

Her 2 fused with her 1 and made direction oriented for effect happening also her 4 be recastable/toggled

[GuezMan]

1 hour ago, Xgomme said:

- Zephyr is already really really good, if you don't know the frame that much don't ask for changes, I guess
- Ground slam have a way higher recovery time, you basically lose time and control since it's basically like if you pressed divebomb.... (+ you can melee attack after tailwind)
- Tailwind is already moddable, did you even play more than one random build with Zephyr ?
- She can fly, like birds do, while flapping. She's not a plane

I think Zephyr deserves a rework no matter what fans of the frame say about her current state, cause at this time I dont think many use her except for her 3rd ability, and being that at first glance players are not excited to play her except for that sweet mastery rank, makes it even more viable for a rework.

[yles9056]

For me, the major problem of Zephyr is that she contributes little to her team.

 

-Her CC is not as good as other frames.

-She's not designed to be a damage dealer.

-The only utility she offers to her team is Turbulence with Jet Stream.

Edited September 25, 2017 by yles9056

[xXDeadsinxX]

6 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

- Zephyr is already really really good, if you don't know the frame that much don't ask for changes, I guess
- Ground slam have a way higher recovery time, you basically lose time and control since it's basically like if you pressed divebomb.... (+ you can melee attack after tailwind)
- Tailwind is already moddable, did you even play more than one random build with Zephyr ?
- She can fly, like birds do, while flapping. She's not a plane

Zephyr isn't even that good, the only good ability she has is her third ability, that's it. From what most reworks I've seen from forums to videos, most people want her 1 and 2 mashed in the same ability and give her a new ability, which seems very understandable since it makes sense. I don't really count Zephyr as a bird, she looks like one but isn't since she can't even fly, Titania can fly more than Zephyr which is ironic since Titania was realeased a long time after Zephyr came out. Zephyr is in a dire need of a rework.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

15 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

- Zephyr is already really really good, if you don't know the frame that much don't ask for changes, I guess

I'm an avid Zephyr fan. She is fun to play around with. However, I can recognise that her first, second and fourth abilities need attention. The former two need the most focus. I don't see how that means I don't know much about the frame.

15 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

- Ground slam have a way higher recovery time, you basically lose time and control since it's basically like if you pressed divebomb.

Okay this sentence is blatantly false. Ground Slamming does not have "higher recovery time" than Tailwind. You also do not loose more time than you would by using Tailwind, in fact you loose far less time because you don't have to trek all the way across the room to the place you originally wanted to be. You also do not need to cast any energy.

15 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

- Tailwind is already moddable, did you even play more than one random build with Zephyr ?

I never said Tailwind wasn't modable. You are saying it should be made into a roll while still being affect by mods, which would be weird and make modding for a build worse since you'd have to consider you are basically modding five abilities.

Also, yes I played more than one build with Zephyr. I have used her regularly since she came out. Please don't start presuming how much of a frame I've played simply because my opinion doesn't match yours.

15 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

- She can fly, like birds do, while flapping. She's not a plane

She's a wind elemental frame. As in she can manipulate wind. Look up any character in comics who can manipulate wind. She should be able to fly like Titania does.

It seems like you are against anything significant being changed in Zephyr's rework because you like her as she is. That's fair enough, but don't start assuming other people haven't played her simply because you don't agree with what they are saying. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[GuezMan]

1 hour ago, yles9056 said:

For me, the major problem of Zephyr is that she contributes little to her team.

That is definitely true but while that is, other frames dont do much in that area but are viable to solo play or at least efficient in combat but not too contributive to the team as a whole.

 

[Xgomme]

2 minutes ago, GuezMan said:

I think Zephyr deserves a rework no matter what fans of the frame say about her current state, cause at this time I dont think many use her except for her 3rd ability, and being that at first glance players are not excited to play her except for that sweet mastery rank, makes it even more viable for a rework.

The problem is that like Mag, people don't dig the frame enough imo. Her 3 is the only ability working with no real thinking 
But she can do a lot of great things, maybe I should share some builds

But making her a simple gimmick flying frame removing all the cool things she can already do would not be a real rework, just another Titania

[yles9056]

Just now, Xgomme said:

The problem is that like Mag, people don't dig the frame enough imo. Her 3 is the only ability working with no real thinking 
But she can do a lot of great things, maybe I should share some builds

But making her a simple gimmick flying frame removing all the cool things she can already do would not be a real rework, just another Titania

What does she offer to her team in sortie missions other than Turbulence and Jet Stream?

Edited September 25, 2017 by yles9056

[GuezMan]

1 hour ago, Xgomme said:

The problem is that like Mag, people don't dig the frame enough imo. Her 3 is the only ability working with no real thinking 
But she can do a lot of great things, maybe I should share some builds

But making her a simple gimmick flying frame removing all the cool things she can already do would not be a real rework, just another Titania

Enlighten me.

[Xgomme]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

-snip-

Stop exploding my messages to answer total clem
Slam attack is clearly slower, you slam, eh... And you can't control preciselly, it means I can't stealth dive and cut someone with my Venka if you change it your way
I'm assuming because your opinions are the one of the guy "flapping around sometime with her" ...
Try heavy impact divebomb vortex build, try corrosive armor scrapping 8 tornados, try huge cc build, try augmented turbulence to buff your team, try, try

Edited September 25, 2017 by Xgomme