Archwing Launcher is prohibitively expensive

[DragonKnightJin]

Archwing call should have been on a cooldown, not usable charges. Requiring fish oil is.. Insane Troll Logic, at best.

The fact that the blueprints for 10x bait or dye so fishing isn't a tedious grindfest aren't reusable is.. Just insane.
WHY a recipe for bait or dye be used up in the creation of a single batch? It doesn't make sense.

For weapons, I can understand. You're not likely to need it because it's a reusable thing. But for consumables, having to spend 500 standing, which sounds like it's not a lot, but when you're starting out.. It's a solid dent in your progress to the higher tiers of Standing. And 500 standing for a blueprint every time?
PLEASE DE, make the consumable BPs reusable. This is just too much.

[Vesperos]

On 14.10.2017 at 11:12 AM, RawGritz said:

[...]No way they want players quickly binge'n all the content in a couple days.  This is their magnum opus. They will stretch it out like they do everything else.[...]

Well if DEs intend was that Eidolon is some kind of the "final" stage for PoE then it already is cleared cus the meta for him was found already making it "trivial" cus he has become an farming object you need for the standings. so their new contend was beaten in just 2 days = objective failed if their intend was to make it so that you have to prepare for Eidolin by maxing out the standings 1st in order to get decent gear against him.

On 14.10.2017 at 11:12 AM, RawGritz said:

POE is not that big and archwing flight is pretty fast. Would be a lot less challenging if you could fly at will all the time.

As i already mentioned it in other posts an way better idea would have been to "limit" the access of AW during a mission by adding some sort of AW blocking device/unit/whatever you need to disable 1st before they can be started again. They even could add an layer of "extra requirement" to disable to make it not simply an AW get´s disabled kill/destroy/hack the thing that blocks it just to use AW again. For example something like an 2-3 min "overprotection" that makes it immune to everything so that you are "forced" to do some ground play 1st.

Most annoying thing on the ground missions is that you need to travel all way to foot but Grineer units mostly just drop in with their pods or their aircraft and can attack and anoy with all their aircraft units where you not really have an big counter against them. Sure AW would make the travel and stuff easier but for mining and fishing you need to land anyways but making one of the basic gear each tenno has and can use  without of any charges during missions in space or under water (where you magicly can summon the AW out of thin air when you enter it or disapears with no clue after leaving it). From all ways why AW can´t be used all the time in Plains i must say DE did find one of the worst possible ones.

Anyways why the other vendors only sell 1 time only BPs... something only DE currently can explain. The only vendor that sells multiple use BPs is the mining vendor. Why? No clue or idea.

Anyways in terms of the crafting either i don´t have found it yet or they simply have overlooked this factor. There must be a way to do the crafting in Cetus cus everytime i wanna craft something i need to go back to my ship just to start the process.

I would say make it so you purchase the BP by the vendor and then the option "Craft" becomes available where you simply chose the thing you wanna craft and the vendor does it for ya.

 

[Vladokapuh]

just make it one time build, no charges. It really is mean the way it is now.
Did i mention that some enemy attacks literally knock you out of your archwing?

[TipsyMacScotchslurpen]

Single-use blueprints for consumable items is my single biggest pet peeve in this game.  Having to craft 10 fieldrons to craft the Lenz, for instance, takes what? 120 hours?  240?  It means that after having your clan grind for the research components, wait three days for that to finish, then go back to the ship to craft another ten 12- to 24-hour components, then waiting the 12 to 24 hours the weapon itself takes is just stupid.  If you dont want people to use it, just remove it from the game.  As it stands, I just do every single Invasion event that offers Fieldrons, Detonite Injectors, or Mutagen Masses, because crafting them simply isn't worth the time or resources.

I really wish there was a way to craft those ten fieldrons all at the same time if I have the necessary materials.  Why can I simultaneously craft six warframes and five weapons, plus a forma and Orokin catalyst, but I can't craft two ciphers at the same time?

I understand why they chose to make Archwing a limited resource on the plains.  Just murdering the world from the sky as Titania in Razorwing mode, modded for highest possible strength and efficiency, makes the hardest parts of the plains during the day a breeze.  The fact that you only need a few dead Grineer worth of energy every once in a while might convince me to just make Titania my "PlainsFrame" and would let me forget about that short bit of  fishgrind.

 

That said, though, I'll be building Archwing charges.  Fishing is dead simple.  I haven't even bothered to buy bait or dye, and I can walk with as many fish as I feel like stabbing.  Maybe there's a trick to it that I picked up without realizing it?  To me fishing is the fastest way of farming for Cetus standing, because the missions give you a hundred or so in three or more segments that force you to do at least five minutes worth of bulletjumpsliding, not including the mission objectives.  In that time I can catch 400+ standing worth of fish.  Mining gems is a complete joke, because they are worth less than the fur my Kubrow clogs the landing craft rebreather units with.

 

Pro Tips:

1 - If you are having a hard time seeing the fish, try fishing in the "ocean" (that is, go to the edge of the map to the right when exiting the gate from Cetus).  The water is as clear as glass down there, and you don't have clumps of leaves blocking huge portions of the water's surface.

2 - If you have it in your head that quality is more important than quantity, then you will probably need something to make the fish visible at night.  Some of the fish have glowing spots, but I'm not sure if the lungfish is one of them.  If it isn't just fish at the ocean during the day and haul in as many as you can find.

3 - When you get your standing rewards, choose the next available fishing spear.  My guess is that you don't even see the fish your spear is incapable of catching, so if you want to bring in the costlier fish, choose the better spear.  If you can bring in the good fish, you can eventually probably get mining gear that isn't complete trash (assuming such a thing exists?).

Edited October 15, 2017 by TipsyMacScotchslurpen

[Lazer166]

On 14/10/2017 at 10:12 AM, RawGritz said:

So the grind is real. But one thing I like is that you can share the air support charges with squad mates. So not everyone needs them built. But best if all players have them for conserving charges.

All veteran WF players should have expected DE to double down on the grind. No way they want players quickly binge'n all the content in a couple days.  This is their magnum opus. They will stretch it out like they do everything else. And honestly its all really simple. I did my 150 fish oil pretty easy with basic fishing spear.

POE is not that big and archwing flight is pretty fast. Would be a lot less challenging if you could fly at will all the time.

Agreed I got just over 500 fish oil I around 40-60 mins of fishing.(using bait)

[Firetempest]

One of these on the three farthest grineer outposts,

[DEATHLOK]

On 10/13/2017 at 4:49 PM, RawGritz said:

This IS WarFrame! The grind is real. Once I realized how to get the fish I respected the decision. It gave me some objectives and things to do in the Plains. We shouldn't want to just binge all the content at once anyway. Plus now I know my Sky-Wing will be a great luxury once I craft the 50 charges.

You do realize that time spent fishing is time not spent leveling gear, gathering Focus and other resources? And you do realize that this was designed as a time sink to reduce all other farming?

[KeLaRo]

19 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

...for older gamers (and with apologies to Charlton Heston)... "Fish Oil is PEOPLE!"

Great Movie! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/

[Grayfox-Hunter]

The only logic I could see is that the fish oil gives the archwing the blessed ability to handle the watery depths of the plains, and even that idea is fraught with questions! 

Agreed that fish oil should stay where it belongs... In fishes or on the gutting table of fish lady. 

[low1991]

23 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

You use fish oil because it's the fuel for the Archwing. In space, we use ion propulsion. It's a weaker force, but theres no air resistance or significant gravity to worry about in space. In Sharkwing mode, we use electrolysis to turn the water into Hydrogen fuel, which is partially why we move so slowly. Largely inefficient conversion to fuel means we have to run slower. In open air, however, we need an actual fuel for propulsion. And this is where the fish oil comes in. That's why the charges have limited timers, as well. Each charge contains a small amount of the total fuel converted from the fish oil, so it only lasts a couple minutes.

Feels so BS... Liset use the same propulsion in space or not. In Sharkwing, propulsion are the same but no afterburn. So why the sudden need for fuel??

[RawGritz]

2 hours ago, Firetempest said:

One of these on the three farthest grineer outposts,

Niiiice find. Thanks!

[RawGritz]

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

You do realize that time spent fishing is time not spent leveling gear, gathering Focus and other resources? And you do realize that this was designed as a time sink to reduce all other farming?

You're still farming. Dont agree at all. The fish are cut to yield a variety of farmed resources. Still farming. Still WF.

[Atekron]

If u ask me we should get new key binding for summoning archwing, not blueprints, not cooldowns, and definitely not fishing.

[DEATHLOK]

6 hours ago, RawGritz said:

You're still farming. Dont agree at all. The fish are cut to yield a variety of farmed resources. Still farming. Still WF.

Then use that Fish Oil to rank up a mod, collect Focus energy, level a Warframe or weapon—you know, important stuff.

It's designed to waste time. Don't be obtuse.

[LordLokai]

On 10/13/2017 at 5:16 PM, TankHunter678 said:

Air support charges use common materials that most everyone has in abundance or can easily and quickly farm up metric tons of it.

I have not seen a single fish in all my runs of the plains.

you can fish at any water area, just pull your harpoon out and wait a few they spawn when you use your spear they dont show up otherwise... but its still a weird option for the launcher...

[TankHunter678]

1 minute ago, LordLokai said:

you can fish at any water area, just pull your harpoon out and wait a few they spawn when you use your spear they dont show up otherwise... but its still a weird option for the launcher...

Yeah I am doing a lot of fishing because its the most effective way to rank up. Geyser pond at night since lungfish are worth so much. I got 8k rep worth of fish waiting for the daily reset to be traded in.

[Ohforf3]

I have not been to the Bizarre since the update to check so this might already be in game but making some of the fishing and mining drops trad-able would really help.  For the most part you get all the other resources by doing the normal grind but this new system is forces you to do something that has high appeal to some players and absolutely none to others.  Those who like to fish and mine could then sell the stuff they spent time grinding to other players who don't like it.  Even if it is restricted to whole fish and raw mining finds.

[latetier]

On 10/14/2017 at 4:12 AM, RawGritz said:

So the grind is real. But one thing I like is that you can share the air support charges with squad mates. So not everyone needs them built. But best if all players have them for conserving charges.

All veteran WF players should have expected DE to double down on the grind. No way they want players quickly binge'n all the content in a couple days.  This is their magnum opus. They will stretch it out like they do everything else. And honestly its all really simple. I did my 150 fish oil pretty easy with basic fishing spear.

POE is not that big and archwing flight is pretty fast. Would be a lot less challenging if you could fly at will all the time.

plains is..challenging? lol'd.

In all seriousness though doubling down on the grind and saying the grind is real does not make it make any more sense nor does it make it fun at all. The point of the OP I think goes along with my line of thinking. Why in the world do we need fish oil all of a sudden for archwings when archwing mode itself has no problem deploying them. Not to mention some of us out here actually don't want to be forced into fishing. ~Gasp~ shocker.

[Miburec]

On 13.10.2017 at 10:44 PM, Zanoza-chan said:

Parkour is helping enough in travelling imo. That makes the archwing more more luxury than necessity.

I was thinking the same until a bounty sent me literally to the opposite side of the map, to a point almost 1.5km away.

[LSG501]

6 minutes ago, Miburec said:

I was thinking the same until a bounty sent me literally to the opposite side of the map, to a point almost 1.5km away.

had a couple of them....and then the next beacon is nearly a km a way again etc.... it's almost like DE planned the locations around using archwing...

 

[Pyrippo]

3 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

Then use that Fish Oil to rank up a mod, collect Focus energy, level a Warframe or weapon—you know, important stuff.

It's designed to waste time. Don't be obtuse.

"Important". For some people the important part of Warframe is variety and having plenty of different things to do when other activities (like the ones you mentioned) get boring. I would argue that fishing isn't designed to be a time-waster but just doesn't feed-back properly into any other of the game's systems (also the ones you mentioned), along with the rest of activities associated with the Ostron syndicate.

[Pyrippo]

That said, I agree with everyone saying that the materials used in the research for the Archwing gear should have been something, at least, not stuck behind a side-activity. Having it available from the beginning would throw the progression and discovery; but having it stuck behind a completely irrelevant activity makes no sense whatsoever.

[Tesrac]

Here's a fun fact, the Arching dement blueprint is a reusable blueprint but the dye and bait are not.

[FierceRadiance]

I farm-fished for about 45 minutes of a Day cycle, and got 117 Fish Oil as a result. 50x Archwing charges require 150 Fish Oil to craft. So in rough numbers, players are looking at farm-fishing for about an hour to get enough Fish Oil to build 50x Archwing charges.

But here's the rub. Look at the distances on your Bounties; about 85% of the distances are far enough from your current location that you're going to want to use an Archwing charge to get there. So unless you run the entire mission from the air -and I'm thinking you'll have to land at some point to pick up the "thingie"- you're going to be using at least 2 or 3 of these charges per mission...maybe more. So how long do you think it will take you to use up those charges - 10 missions? 15? That's roughly how long your 60 minutes of fishing bought you.

Your mileage may vary, of course, but IMHO, if you compare how long it takes to farm Fish Oil and craft the 50 charges, compared to how long it takes to use them up, the system as it's currently implemented is broken and not a good use of your time. If you consider the advantages of running the missions on the ground with your mining scanner equipped, using Archwing becomes an even worse option.

This disappoints me greatly, And judging by the forums, I'm not alone in this assessment.

[Daconius]

They wanted to keep this a secret but....   the folks at DE are so stoked about the PC release of Destiny2 that they didn't want people to get caught up in Plains of Eidolon having fun right as it was about to be released.    That's why they made archwings into a lengthy minigame grind - they knew it'd keep people from really digging into the new content!

It's sad..  I was really looking forward to casual shifting between modes to make for something like a Far Cry: Warframe feel... but using up charges every time, and it taking so damned much grindy resources to make consumable charges, is stupid.