Master Rank Trials - unnecessary and unfriendly towards disabled people

[nokturnihs]

Mastery Rank Trials

Mastery Trials are a problem - they are an unnecessary mechanism that's going to cost DE and Warframe money in the long run - the issue is not limiting mastery ranks ups to once per 24 hour period - it's the trials themselves.

• Mastery Trials are poorly written and badly executed
• Mastery Trials are unnecessary as they do not add anything new or exciting to the game - they're a nuisance
• Mastery Trials prohibit from playing certain content and frustrate players, which in a free to play, microtransaction is bad.
• By locking end-game content behind needless activities that players sometimes cannot complete - you are losing them from your player base, any revenue they might bring and possibly their friends.
• Mastery Rank 8 specifically is near impossible for people with muscle and coordination disabilities - I suffer from an MS-like disorder and while I can engage in most of the game's content - moving EXACTLY the right second to accomplish this trial is NOT something my body is capable of. Missing out on Orokin Vaults and the like suck but it doesn't prevent me from moving forward in the game for the most part.

So specifically MR 8 and maybe others are a problem for people with certain disabilities (i have a friend who had a hand crushed when he was younger and MR8 isn't something he can pass either, although like me most of the game's content is something he can play).

It's unnecessary, poorly implemented, costs you money and subtracts from the overall game quality as well as loses you players - people aren't going to play Warframe when you lock them out of progressing for weeks at a time.

 

I've been trying MR8 (as well as practicing numerous times daily) for just shy of two weeks and can't pass it. I can guarantee you if I spend another two weeks trying to pass MR8, then I won't be playing Warframe any longer than that. It's a ridiculous and unnecessary mechanic - dump it.

 

[Entharias]

Well, it's actually a needed mechanic, you can't pass MR8? You stay MR8.
If you can't pass due to disability, try to send a ticket to support and they might pass it for you.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

So what would you suggest instead for the purpose of progression? I see complaints but no suggestions or solutions. 

[BiancaRoughfin]

5 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

Mastery Rank Trials

Mastery Trials are a problem - they are an unnecessary mechanism that's going to cost DE and Warframe money in the long run - the issue is not limiting mastery ranks ups to once per 24 hour period - it's the trials themselves.

Only issue i see is the 24 hour period between trials and/or repeats. I think 4~12 hours would be more than fine, specially towards newer players.

6 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

• Mastery Trials are poorly written and badly executed

Im Mastery Rank 24, i play the game for more than 4 years and a half. So far the Trial system has worked great for me.

7 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

• Mastery Trials are unnecessary as they do not add anything new or exciting to the game - they're a nuisance

They test your skills and see if your actually learning to play instead of just walking to the extraction and leaving your team to do the work for you. Also prepares you for harder content further ahead.

7 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

• Mastery Trials prohibit from playing certain content and frustrate players, which in a free to play, microtransaction is bad.

They limit access to content for a good reason. It would be very unfair not to mention OP for a Rank 0 to be wielding a Tigris Prime, Vaykor Hek or Arca Plasmor.
The game is Free-2-Play, doesnt mean Digital Extremes doesnt need a source of income. Microtransactions are bad in poorly managed games or those that lock game changing gear behind a pay wall. Lucky for you, Warframe doesnt have those pay walls.

10 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

• Mastery Rank 8 specifically is near impossible for people with muscle and coordination disabilities - I suffer from an MS-like disorder and while I can engage in most of the game's content - moving EXACTLY the right second to accomplish this trial is NOT something my body is capable of. Missing out on Orokin Vaults and the like suck but it doesn't prevent me from moving forward in the game for the most part.

True that people with limitations will have difficulty moving pass these tests but im pretty sure [DE]'s staff is flexible enough to get you through them if you contact them and prove your limitations.

Should you have reached the required Mastery points to rank up, try contacting Support.

[Lord_Jaxom3]

2 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Only issue i see is the 24 hour period between trials and/or repeats. I think 4~12 hours would be more than fine, specially towards newer players.

Im Mastery Rank 24, i play the game for more than 4 years and a half. So far the Trial system has worked great for me.

They test your skills and see if your actually learning to play instead of just walking to the extraction and leaving your team to do the work for you. Also prepares you for harder content further ahead.

They limit access to content for a good reason. It would be very unfair not to mention OP for a Rank 0 to be wielding a Tigris Prime, Vaykor Hek or Arca Plasmor.
The game is Free-2-Play, doesnt mean Digital Extremes doesnt need a source of income. Microtransactions are bad in poorly managed games or those that lock game changing gear behind a pay wall. Lucky for you, Warframe doesnt have those pay walls.

True that people with limitations will have difficulty moving pass these tests but im pretty sure [DE]'s staff is flexible enough to get you through them if you contact them and prove your limitations.

Should you have reached the required Mastery points to rank up, try contacting Support.

Thankyou for putting forward a reasonable response.

[MJ12]

The thing is, we had the equivalent of mastery rank trials in Titanfall in the Regen system, which required you to do certain feats before you could regen, some of which were very hard (e.g. 'kill five ejecting pilots in midair'). Later on, because of mass popular outcry, they gave us the Forged Certification system, where you could pay a pretty sizable amount of money (it was like, 100,000 credits in a game where you earned maybe a few thousand credits/match) to skip a certification for Regen. Like the Regen system, the Mastery system is flawed because it basically

Unlike the Regen system, Mastery has a direct, and significant, effect on gameplay. Several weapons are Mastery-locked, and your Mastery determines the starting mod capacity of your weapons. At MR23, if I get a weapon, I can basically take it into a sortie entirely unranked if it's a good weapon and contribute with it. Someone MR9 probably won't.

I think a system like that would be fair. Skip a mastery test by paying, say, 100,000 credits x new mastery rank (so your MR 8->9 test would cost 9 * 50,000 = 450,000 credits). This means that even disabled players or players who really hate a mechanic can get the benefits of a new mastery rank, while still incentivizing people to do the mastery tests. The MR 23->24 test would cost 1.2 million credits, which is a pretty significant sum even for a dedicated player unless you do a lot of super-dedicated credit farming.

If you think 'credits' isn't enough, you could also add other currency. Standing from Syndicates, rare items, whatever. The idea here would be that you're getting to skip the mastery test by virtue of demonstrated merit to the Tenno cause, by getting Syndicates to vouch for you and showing that you can contribute to the Tenno cause by finding resources.

Edited October 23, 2017 by MJ12

[(PSN)SageHeed]

I love the Mastery system. My only thought is that I wish it was more rooted in the game world. I hope ranking up will someday mean going to visit the Lotus and doing the test there (with ceremonial flair added to the process, perhaps with other Tenno watching) or something like that.

I don't think the fact that you have to pass a certain bar to rank up is unfriendly and I don't think that it's a problem that there are rewards for doing so. I do not see any reason at all for that 24h waiting period however. If a player struggles to pass one of these bars, let them try again until they can. It makes no sense to lock them out from retrying while they are sitting there playing the game, they may not have time to play the next day.

[(PSN)Voidskar]

I agree as well, it is the 24 hour window that is silly in my opinion. How is one to learn if they may only do 'the real deal' once per day? you fail then move onto other things and then after 24 hours rolls back around you fail again and then get on with your day never truly getting any better at it. So i do have to agree that it is the 24 hour window thats the real frustration for players. Lets also be honest here if PoE isnt MR based then what is MR needed for but Prime weaps and relay access? that makes MR kind of silly in the game itself and yes does make it seem odd and out of place and needless. Especially when you can see an MR 24 be just as lazy as an MR 1 and let people die or decide to hit every extractor and run. If MR is a thing let it be a thing but also let us be restricted FULLY by it. As well yes take out the 24 hour window thats just silly to think someone will learn when they cant really try for real - i mean what about people with test anxiety?
and does messaging DE even work? like can they even change your account like that?
 

[Tsukinoki]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)jmaillet24 said:

How is one to learn if they may only do 'the real deal' once per day?

They can still practice it in Simaris' room in the relay as much as they want before doing "the real deal" to make sure if they can do it without worrying about messing up.
Since the practice is exactly the same as the real thing its a good strategy to practice a few times before trying a new mastery rank so that you don't have to wait 24 hours.

[(PSN)Xali_al-saachezX]

1 hour ago, (PS4)jmaillet24 said:

I agree as well, it is the 24 hour window that is silly in my opinion. How is one to learn if they may only do 'the real deal' once per day? you fail then move onto other things and then after 24 hours rolls back around you fail again and then get on with your day never truly getting any better at it

Well you wouldn't have this problem if you practice it. I keep practicing my mr trials untill i dont make any mistakes and then i go do it.

Edited October 24, 2017 by (PS4)SSXBIGGS28

[(PSN)Xali_al-saachezX]

And i also agree with what biancaroughfin said it wouldn't be a challenge or be any fun if a mr 0 or 1 came in a mission with a tigiris or soma prime (lets be honest we all do have friends that would farm and give us these weapons if this was the case)

Edited October 24, 2017 by (PS4)SSXBIGGS28

[BlackCoMerc]

On 10/23/2017 at 5:52 PM, Omega-Shadowblade said:

So what would you suggest instead for the purpose of progression? I see complaints but no suggestions or solutions. 

He suggested dropping the tests. From the game. Which NEEDS to happen.

The tests are ridiculous. They drive players to quit. They are not fun. They add nothing.

Who in the world thought adding TESTS to a GAME was a GOOD idea in the first place? Please show me the survey results that prove people enjoy taking tests.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 10/23/2017 at 6:02 PM, MJ12 said:

The thing is, we had the equivalent of mastery rank trials in Titanfall in the Regen system, which required you to do certain feats before you could regen, some of which were very hard (e.g. 'kill five ejecting pilots in midair'). Later on, because of mass popular outcry, they gave us the Forged Certification system, where you could pay a pretty sizable amount of money (it was like, 100,000 credits in a game where you earned maybe a few thousand credits/match) to skip a certification for Regen. Like the Regen system, the Mastery system is flawed because it basically

Unlike the Regen system, Mastery has a direct, and significant, effect on gameplay. Several weapons are Mastery-locked, and your Mastery determines the starting mod capacity of your weapons. At MR23, if I get a weapon, I can basically take it into a sortie entirely unranked if it's a good weapon and contribute with it. Someone MR9 probably won't.

I think a system like that would be fair. Skip a mastery test by paying, say, 100,000 credits x new mastery rank (so your MR 8->9 test would cost 9 * 50,000 = 450,000 credits). This means that even disabled players or players who really hate a mechanic can get the benefits of a new mastery rank, while still incentivizing people to do the mastery tests. The MR 23->24 test would cost 1.2 million credits, which is a pretty significant sum even for a dedicated player unless you do a lot of super-dedicated credit farming.

If you think 'credits' isn't enough, you could also add other currency. Standing from Syndicates, rare items, whatever. The idea here would be that you're getting to skip the mastery test by virtue of demonstrated merit to the Tenno cause, by getting Syndicates to vouch for you and showing that you can contribute to the Tenno cause by finding resources.

Thats an excellent compromise. Well said.

[Burned-Toast]

On 10/23/2017 at 3:02 PM, MJ12 said:

Several weapons are Mastery-locked, and your Mastery determines the starting mod capacity of your weapons. At MR23, if I get a weapon, I can basically take it into a sortie entirely unranked if it's a good weapon and contribute with it. Someone MR9 probably won't.

You say that as if someone MR9 (like me) would want to go into a sortie with an unranked weapon.

2 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

He suggested dropping the tests. From the game. Which NEEDS to happen.

The tests are ridiculous. They drive players to quit. They are not fun. They add nothing.

Who in the world thought adding TESTS to a GAME was a GOOD idea in the first place? Please show me the survey results that prove people enjoy taking tests.

They're not ridiculous. They might need a little tweaking (e.g. the 24-hour cooldown), but overall, I think it's fine.

As for driving players to quit, I recently got all the Galatine Prime parts, only to find out that it needs MR13. Same with all the useless Rivens i seem to get. I'm still playing, though.

Personally, I find the Mastery tests to be rather enjoyable. Sure, the starting ones are a little bland, and some of them have you running all over the place, but a little practice and you can get better. One example from my personal experiences would be the MR9 test, which I practiced for, and failed. I got a little sad and did some more practices. As it turned out, I was being too impatient, causing me to fail the test. Learning from my mistakes, I retook the test the next day and passed it.

Looking at the cooldown timer again, maybe the cooldown was to prevent you from repeatedly taking the test and failing, then raging. We already have the Simaris practice area, so that you don't have to trigger the cooldown. Sure, having it be 24 hours was a bit ridiculous, but that's just DE doing DE things (good idea, bad execution).

 

Before you reply, just keep in mind that I'm not trying to tell you how to think about Mastery Tests, I'm just giving my point of view.

 

EDIT: as for the whole disabled people thing, I have nothing to say, so don't get that mixed up

Edited October 25, 2017 by Burned-Toast

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

I've seen so many people complain about the MR8 test. You literally walk forward, shoot a ball, jump to next platform. Bullet Jump and Aim Glide will get you from platform to platform easily every time. 

Legitimate disabilities that mess with quick twitch reactions could be grounds for a ticket. Submit it and see what happens.

But MR needs to stay. I don't think someone who hasn't plodded through the Karak and normal Latron can truly appreciate the Tigris Prime. It exists for a reason. 

[HyokaChan]

MR8 can literally be skipped cheesed by energy pizzas and Zephyr. As long as you can aim where you're going and keep pressing 1/2 to land, you should make it.

Edited October 25, 2017 by HyokaChan

[SenariousNex]

I kinda hate sorties, because they are hard to pass if you are blind, maybe we should remove them.

Also make chat in braille. 

Eudolon hunts are too hard if you are mentally ill. Maybe we should just remove them,

Second Dream is too hard if you have a crippling fear of water. Maybe we should remove the Second Dream.

 

I am not making fun of disabilities, but the question is, should a game developer dumb down the game to appeal to a wider audience?

 

[HollowWitch]

If you are having issues with MR8 maybe try Titania (with a few energy pads at the start)? She can fly. 

Unless that is disabled for the trail. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by SeriouslySinister

[TheBrsrkr]

I failed the MR12 test 9 times. It was frustrating. I didn't  like it. What did I do about it? Practice. And  it did affect the way I played the game from then on. I never really took on situational awareness, because  I always used to play with Rhino, pop Iron Skin and go about my business obliviously, and die enough times to matter.  This test showed me what I was doing wrong and how to improve. 

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2017. 10. 23. at 11:53 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Im Mastery Rank 24, i play the game for more than 4 years and a half. So far the Trial system has worked great for me.

I have finished a sortie test what needed to save a target from the enemy while blowing up orbs to open his cage, while not alerting the grineer using only melee weapons.

This is all good and fine till you realize that all melee weapons in this challange alert enemies and this was not the first when something questionable happened on the trials.

[Fallen_Echo]

49 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I failed the MR12 test 9 times. It was frustrating. I didn't  like it. What did I do about it? Practice. And  it did affect the way I played the game from then on. I never really took on situational awareness, because  I always used to play with Rhino, pop Iron Skin and go about my business obliviously, and die enough times to matter.  This test showed me what I was doing wrong and how to improve. 

I yet to find any mr test what actually shows me something useful outside of doing the said test.

[TheBrsrkr]

37 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I yet to find any mr test what actually shows me something useful outside of doing the said test.

It's useful if you don't do the things in the test. Like that parkour test with the disappearing panels. If you don't really use parkour, it'll be hard for you, but once you get it you can see the value of parkour in everyday gameplay instead of  it being for RUSH B CYKA BLYAT all the way to extraction. Either way, it's a test to see if you can compete for content at that level. If you can't do it you're not ready. 

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

It's useful if you don't do the things in the test. Like that parkour test with the disappearing panels. If you don't really use parkour, it'll be hard for you, but once you get it you can see the value of parkour in everyday gameplay instead of  it being for RUSH B CYKA BLYAT all the way to extraction. Either way, it's a test to see if you can compete for content at that level. If you can't do it you're not ready. 

Its not a test its a cheesefest.

Defense mission mr test? Beefed up frost prime with the most OP weaponary.

Some parkour mission? Bring titania or zephyr with maxed aimglide and speed mods.

Steath? Use a stealth frame or if not possible banshee with gunblades.

 

 

I learned parkour before the actual mr test and finished it with a long range ignis build so i could hover around before the panels disappear. The only time i was tried to do a test in a legit way some month ago when i realized for some unknown reason melee weapons are making sound in this test only.

[MJ12]

7 hours ago, SenariousNex said:

I kinda hate sorties, because they are hard to pass if you are blind, maybe we should remove them.

Also make chat in braille. 

Eudolon hunts are too hard if you are mentally ill. Maybe we should just remove them,

Second Dream is too hard if you have a crippling fear of water. Maybe we should remove the Second Dream.

 

I am not making fun of disabilities, but the question is, should a game developer dumb down the game to appeal to a wider audience?

 

Yes you are making fun of disabilities. You're literally strawmanning, say, "I have problems with my hand-eye coordination which mean I can play most of the content, but then get stuck on mastery tests which don't actually test things that you need in normal gameplay" with "I am blind and literally incapable of playing the game at all." People can play and enjoy a game while having a disability which stops them from having super-great twitch reflexes or other disabilities. A minor concession to those people whose reflexes are shot or whose hearing is bad or whatever is completely different from your strawman about how making minor concessions is "dumbing down the game."

Allowing people some sort of alternative mastery method, like I suggested (trading a large amount of credits + standing + rare mats/prime parts to bypass a mastery rank) would harm the game how? This would give the OP and his/her friends the ability to progress through mastery ranks while keeping mastery rank tests, and keeping them relevant. If you don't have to skip a mastery test, you get to keep a lot of stuff, but if you just can't finish one, you can skip it anyhow.

I'm not sure you guys understand the purpose of progression mechanics like mastery rank. They are not intended to be, are not, and shouldn't be, a signifier of skill. I've seen people with low MRs who are way better than me, and people with high MRs who just suck. They're a progression mechanic which exist to keep people playing the game, which is done by letting players get bigger numbers. Mastery Rank in fact takes it further by requiring a player to constantly diversify their arsenal to increase their mastery rank, which means the player is constantly incentivized to hunt down materials to build new equipment, then use it, which often means sticking forma/potatoes into new guns and frames you find out you like.

Making Mastery Rank actually achieve its function, instead of frustrating players who aren't arbitrarily good enough (despite being capable of doing everything the game requires of them in normal missions), is not "dumbing down" the game. There is nothing which makes the game "less dumb" if you have to do an arbitrary task, often with no relation to the actual gameplay, before you can progress in the game. It just creates a difficulty spike.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

I essentially play on par with the best of them with one fully functioning thumb So I am disabled in a way but I found a way to make it seem like I'm not disabled in any way. Who's to say other disabled people couldn't do the same? I think those that want an easy way around the mastery tests and or complain about them need to possibly work around disabilities and or practice the tests more. I mean if one is capable of playing in the first place a simple MR test should be completely possible, me being a prime example after having there thumb practically cut off.